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 Orionthehunter9
Joined: 6/28/2012
Msg: 239
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?Page 8 of 22    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)
I lack no self-esteem. Nor am I bullying. I'm just not prepared to allow you to assume the moral high ground on this because you have an "ivy leaguer." Nor am I prepared to concede to the politically correct that this is just somehow an exercise in domination through misguided means with no end point. To suggest there is no real means or end is suggesting we are little more than uneducated purveyors of violence. And uneducated is something i am not! And that is your agenda.

You aren't saving the children. Sorry to break it to ya.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 240
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/9/2013 7:24:50 PM
I lack no self-esteem. Nor am I bullying. I'm just not prepared to allow you to assume the moral high ground on this because you have an "ivy leaguer." Nor am I prepared to concede to the politically correct that this is just somehow an exercise in domination through misguided means with no end point. To suggest there is no real means or end is suggesting we are little more than uneducated purveyors of violence. And uneducated is something i am not! And that is your agenda.

You aren't saving the children. Sorry to break it to ya.


I am not assuming higher moral ground, simply stating my opinon with specifics in order to make a point. I also mentioned that my children are respectful & well behaved, but you don't mention this in your attempt to make it sound as if I am espousing superiority. It fails much like spanking as a disciplinary method & that you do so does indicate that you ARE attempting to bully. My "political correctness" in reference to domination is evidenced by those who oppose my view, as it is they who continually assert the necessity to show a child who is in control. If the end point in parenting is to assert control then I would suggest one take a slave however politically incorrect that notion may be. Parents have responsibilities, and domination is not one of them. I don't suggest no means or end, only that the stated means do not result in the stated objective. I have no agenda, really. Frankly I care not how you choose to parent. I am quite confident that the children I have raised the way I see fit, taking full responsiblity for my own errors (of which there have been more than a few) and as much pride in their accomplishments & appreciation & I won't cower to those who take every opportunity to paint my postings as if they point to some ridiculous agenda. I have no time to "save the children", only to offer my opinion in the hopes that some may take the time to think & perhaps educate themselves in the effective ways of educating their own.
 Orionthehunter9
Joined: 6/28/2012
Msg: 241
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/9/2013 7:48:15 PM
I have educated myself in parenting strategies and am familiar with educational pedagogy as well. By trial and error I have found what worked best for my own. Which does not mean it is the best for everybody, but it worked all the same. No love or trust was lost over the two spankings, and another child knows she is the one in control of the direction of her life.

Thank you for your concern in the matter.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 242
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/9/2013 8:04:23 PM
Again, it is obvious that we agree (two spankings) that you have not used physical "control" as a means of educating your child. I apologize if you took my words to mean anything other than that which I intended. You can rest assured that I do not categorize you as one who fails to acknowledge spanking as an invalid teaching method, even if you are unable to utter the words. Have a good night.
 FlyyinSolo87
Joined: 6/15/2011
Msg: 243
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/9/2013 8:06:36 PM
I did not say it "teaches" them that they are not in control, I said it "shows" them that they are not in control, or they are out of control. Either way there is no self control on their part, and in turn must have consequences, punishment/discipline. I also do not use spanking and discipline interchangeably. I stated that spanking is a form of discipline/punishment. Do you think that if they were to go out into the real world and behave in a manner that involves no self control, they will not suffer a real world punishment far worse than what any parent would do? If you're child were to hit his/her sibling, you're worst punishment is what? A time out, grounded for a month, possibly a spanking? In real world scenarios, the punishment can vary from a cop arresting them and putting them in jail to the someone else handling it themselves. And that is the consequence of lacking self control. Which is what you are expected to show you're child, that lacking self control, i.e. not in control, has real world consequences.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 244
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/9/2013 10:33:23 PM
I say beat the f ucking child if they are bad,they deserve it
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 245
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/10/2013 7:57:04 AM
Who the f*ck just hacked my post? Moderators please delete the previous message - someone doctored it up somehow.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 1/7/2013
Msg: 246
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/11/2013 7:52:41 AM

(ohwhynot46) My children ARE in control, of themselves & they have learned that the exercise of same results in consequences.


Bully for you. Are you aware that, not ALL children are the same as YOUR children?

It is far better for a child to get a spanking at the hands of a loving parent who has his or her best interests and future at heart, than to get his or her ribs kicked in by bikers in an alley behind a dive bar because he or she didn't learn not to mouth off at dangerous-looking people.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 1/7/2013
Msg: 247
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/11/2013 7:57:19 AM

(ohwhynot46) A parent who doesn't spank does not necessarily allow their child to rule the roost...


And, a parent who DOES spank is not necessarily constantly beating his or her children.

Really, we shouldn't have to chase down and correct your faulty logic. If corporal punishment was awarded for it, y0u'd have a hienie redder than a baboon's in rut!
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 1/7/2013
Msg: 248
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/11/2013 8:12:27 AM

(ohwhynot46) Who says? You think it better to teach a child that they lack control than to teach them self control?


You have no understanding of incremental teaching. For instance, one has to learn basic addition and subtraction before moving into higher levels of mathematics. And, before you teach high-falutin' concepts like "self-control" to a child, he or she has to learn what control even IS. Learning self-control is not a developmental milestone that everyone just magically achieves at a certain age. Prisons are full of people who never learned self-control (and, to be fair, they also have a sizeable population who were spanked too much).


Punishment by definition involves vengeance,


So? You're trying to make it sound like teaching a child about life realities (like, say, CONSEQUENCES) is a BAD thing.


It may give YOU control, momentarily, but it doesn't teach them anything.


Dead wrong. It teaches them not to piss off the bigger, stronger person. That's the way the world really works. It teaches them to try other things when dealing with difficult people/situations.


It is widely acknowledged that children learn best by modeling behaviors,which would indicate that spanking fails as proper teaching of self control.


Children learn BEST by modeling. That's nowhere near the same thing as saying that they learn ONLY by modeling, and in no other way. Your conclusion does not even BEGIN to make sense. It's like you're arguing that every tool kit should contain a hammer, and ONLY a hammer. Just because a plumb-bob is not as useful for driving a nail, doesn't mean it doesn't belong. Stop being obtuse.


I am not telling anyone how to discipline their child


Sure, you are. Like all "I know better" politically correct busybodies, you can't help but mind everyone else's business, and tell them what to do.
 privat33r
Joined: 2/8/2009
Msg: 249
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/11/2013 1:34:44 PM
The "spanking children lowers IQ" is a mixture of correlation and causation miss applications.

Families that are reported to abuse and mistreat their children do not score as well on IQ tests as other children. That doesn't mean they have less intelligence. It only means they score poorly on standardized tests that others kids, that may be test sensitive, do score well at. If mom's in prison, dad is dead, you're being raised by an aunt and three uncles are selling drugs your problems are not centrally located around whether your aunt has spanked you.

IQ as measured directly by tests has been largely discredited - many useful skills are not possible to measure with paper and pens. I mean-- some dude in an office up in Pangnerting was able to reconstruct a working photo-copier from two models from different companies. He also taught his daughter to shoot and kill moose at 5 years old. The family eats raw walrus meat that is rotted underground in gravel. I'm fairly sure I'd kick his butt in an IQ test- but who's more useful on a hunt in the arctic?

IQ is most generally associated with house size. Larger house, higher IQ. People in larger homes with one kid admit to less spanking.. and may just talk to kids more.. does that mean their kids grow up better balanced... ??

An anger management program that involves releasing pent up frustration through beating on kids doesn't help the world, I'm guessing,. but children don't fail if serious and dangerous misbehavior is corrected in a way they grasp. Running off and diving into the deep water at a pool is awkward. Punching mom in the head and hiding in a store isn't perfect (not my kid- just saw it). Certainly if your kid is fearful of you that's a mistake - but spanking is appropriate in rare situations. My kids were spanked a bit, not a lot. They're the best balanced, most liked children in the neighbourhood. Its not because they were spanked but I doubt its hurt them. Of course at 6'4" and with carding in their sport, they could answer that question themselves.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 250
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/11/2013 2:42:49 PM
The whole notion of 5 points lower or 2.8 points lower on an IQ test being a big deal is ridiculous by itself. You could probably get the same points reduction if it was raining outside instead of sunny. Some kid needed a masters' thesis and came up with the notion to prove dumber people were spanked, and some institution gave him money to test it. Never mind the adverse effect on IQ from smoking/drinking/drug using parents -- let's prove we can paddle people stupid. Yeeeeesh.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 251
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/11/2013 10:25:36 PM

You have no understanding of incremental teaching. For instance, one has to learn basic addition and subtraction before moving into higher levels of mathematics. And, before you teach high-falutin' concepts like "self-control" to a child, he or she has to learn what control even IS. Learning self-control is not a developmental milestone that everyone just magically achieves at a certain age. Prisons are full of people who never learned self-control (and, to be fair, they also have a sizeable population who were spanked too much).


I might suggest that it is you who have no understanding of child development. The ability to control one's self most certainly is a developmental milestone. An 18 mo old in the throes of a tantrum has no ability to stop themselves, any more than a 2 yr old is capable of cognitive deviant behavior. Proper control in a given situation is taught best not by controlling, but by modeling self control & by explaining appropriate behaviors and consequences with consistent follow through. I fail to see how your idea that teaching a child that they have no control over themself leads incrementally to the attainment of self control.


So? You're trying to make it sound like teaching a child about life realities (like, say, CONSEQUENCES) is a BAD thing.


Vengeance does not equate to consequence. Life's realities exacting the punitive are irrelevant to children; even the justice system recognizes this.


Dead wrong. It teaches them not to piss off the bigger, stronger person. That's the way the world really works. It teaches them to try other things when dealing with difficult people/situations.


So , you advocate teaching children that bullys rule? Please explain how exactly hitting a child would teach them anything other than to cater to the whim of every larger being whom they encountered. What "other things" are being taught?


Children learn BEST by modeling. That's nowhere near the same thing as saying that they learn ONLY by modeling, and in no other way. Your conclusion does not even BEGIN to make sense. It's like you're arguing that every tool kit should contain a hammer, and ONLY a hammer. Just because a plumb-bob is not as useful for driving a nail, doesn't mean it doesn't belong. Stop being obtuse.


I suggest that it is you who display the characteristic of being obtuse. You admit that children learn best by methods other than punitive, vengeful acts, and you admit that those raised in such environments are more likely than others to be incarcerated for their inabilty to abide by societal rules, yet you continue to advocate methods which directly contrast with that which you deem successful. If you have a hammer in your tool kit, yet insist on using the plumb-bob to drive a nail you're an idiot!


Sure, you are. Like all "I know better" politically correct busybodies, you can't help but mind everyone else's business, and tell them what to do.


Logic would hardly dictate that participation in this forum makes anyone a busybody, but frankly I am not surprised that you do. You may be bigger than I, but your post has only renewed my steadfast belief in my own strength of character. Thank you for that.

For those capable of comprehension, logic & reasonable discourse, I am stating that, while spanking is not necessarily abusive, it is not conducive to learning. Vengeance is not and was never intended to be a valid method of teaching children how to adapt in society.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 252
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/11/2013 11:14:29 PM

And, a parent who DOES spank is not necessarily constantly beating his or her children.

Really, we shouldn't have to chase down and correct your faulty logic.


Your logic, not mine. I said no such thing, and it is disingenuous of you to post as if I did.

As for your post regarding the back alley beating: logic would dictate that you believe it far better for a woman to be hit by a man who loves (and I use the term loosely) her than to be hit by a stranger. Parents are responsible to teach their children to adapt, to behave within societal norms, while you seem to rely on "I'll show you". Do you really believe that the only way to teach respect is to reap vengeance for perceived disrespect? Can you not see that your analogy/example does nothing more than to foster the idea that there is no way to teach real life conseqences to a child than to exemplify the very behaviors you are trying to avoid? Talk about faulty logic!
 FlyyinSolo87
Joined: 6/15/2011
Msg: 253
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/12/2013 6:34:22 AM
You know for someone who clearly stated that they are not telling someone else how they should raise/discipline their child, that's exactly what you are doing. Good that your method worked for you, but that doesn't mean they work for other children. Question: Is a playful pat on the shoulder violence? Because that playful pat is harder than any spank I've ever given. In fact, I patted my child's back harder to encourage a burp than I've ever spanked him. I have met numerous men and women whose parents spanked them as a child and have absolutely nothing wrong with them as an adult, who function within those "social norms" you speak of. Actually, the ones I've met who have never been spanked in their lives are the ones that have more issues.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 1/7/2013
Msg: 254
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/12/2013 7:21:32 AM


So? You're trying to make it sound like teaching a child about life realities (like, say, CONSEQUENCES) is a BAD thing.


(ohwhynot46)Vengeance does not equate to consequence.


You're right, it doesn't. So, I don't know why you're trying to equate the two.

[qu0te] I suggest that it is you who display the characteristic of being obtuse. You admit that children learn best by methods other than punitive, vengeful acts, and you admit that those raised in such environments are more likely than others to be incarcerated for their inabilty to abide by societal rules, yet you continue to advocate methods which directly contrast with that which you deem successful.

I'm advocating that parents have a COMPLETE parenting kit, with ALL the tools available to them; not to be arbitrarily deprived of something by PC busybodies. I believe that spanking should be a tool of last resort.

[qu0te] If you have a hammer in your tool kit, yet insist on using the plumb-bob to drive a nail you're an idiot!

Hey! Find your own analogy, and don't steal mine, you CopyCat!



Dead wrong. It teaches them not to piss off the bigger, stronger person. That's the way the world really works. It teaches them to try other things when dealing with difficult people/situations.


(ohwhynot46) So , you advocate teaching children that bullys rule?


I advocate teaching them how the real world works. The entirety of human history backs me up.


What "other things" are being taught?


Self-control, diplomacy, tact. Need more?


As for your post regarding the back alley beating: logic would dictate that you believe it far better for a woman to be hit by a man who loves (and I use the term loosely) her than to be hit by a stranger.


Geez, y0u're really going for that "World Champeen of Twisted Logic", aren't ya? In case you've forgotten, the topic at hand is spanking children, not domestic violence.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 1/7/2013
Msg: 255
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/12/2013 7:24:38 AM

(Sweet_Danimal) The whole notion of 5 points lower or 2.8 points lower on an IQ test being a big deal is ridiculous by itself. You could probably get the same points reduction if it was raining outside instead of sunny. Some kid needed a masters' thesis and came up with the notion to prove dumber people were spanked, and some institution gave him money to test it. Never mind the adverse effect on IQ from smoking/drinking/drug using parents -- let's prove we can paddle people stupid. Yeeeeesh.


I find it interesting that IQ tests are dismissed when it is mentioned that there are race-based differences, but they're all of a sudden Revealed Truth when it comes to parenting...
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 1/7/2013
Msg: 256
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/12/2013 7:52:49 AM

(Jimby71) The fact that myself and my 2 sisters where `spanked` when we done wrong as kids and all 3 of us done well at school with both my sisters going onto uni and achieving masters degrees in their chosen fields (one in the arts and one the sciences) make his findings null and void.


One exception to the rule, does not invalidate the rule. By itself, your anecdotal evidence neither proves nor disproves "his" findings. If EVERY high-achiever could be shown to have been spanked, then there MIGHT be something to investigate, although I'd be more inclined to argue that coincidence does not equal corelation.

I dislike twisted logic, whichever position it is advocating.
 Tealwood
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 257
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/12/2013 8:09:05 AM

consequences are, for the most part those that would logically follow a specific action, age appropriately. If a 12 yr old with a cell phone is told that bedtime is 9PM,


Well perhaps I would have had a problem as I did not have the financial resources to provide either of my daughters a cell phone at age 12….but some custodial parents have child support cheques…spousal support cheques that enable them to have cell phones they can take away from their 12 year old children.

I never had an issue with the premise of consequences.



I got rapped on the knuckles with a wooden spoon by Mom once when I was about four - that's all it took. My brothers and I would go to church and want to crawl under the pews - it's always a tough thing to control energetic kids in church, but Mom would open her purse and show us the spoon - that veiled threat - showing us she was still 'packin' heat - was enough.


But equally not everyone responds to that threat either….I received my first strap in gr 1….and probably as many as 10 times in school. Gr 2 the teacher loved to use her big heavy yardstick over our rear ends….LOL…she gave up on mine after splitting 2—3 …and would simply send me down to the office….not everyone is controlled by simple words…or simple visual sight of the spoon.




Rules were made to be broken...boundaries were made to be bent or to be twisted and pushed to see how far you could expand the supposed line in the ground.


I was the preachers kid….I locked one kid up on a broom closet…and another in the organ pit I believe….the game was pushing the envelope

Now I agree with ohwhynot….omg…sacrilegious…in for the most part individuals use it as a manner of exerting control they are probably not able to feel they have in their own lives….but one also needs to grow and understand serious consequences….I had great fun and a great lack of respect for many of the supposed non spanking or non strapping teachers….two teachers I had greatest respect for allowed us a level of freedom…but if you crossed over the line either one…a female and a male teacher would deal with you in a manner that would sting and at the same time a sense you let them down or disappointed them.

I also had a couple of very heavy handed teachers who were very liberal in meeting out punishment…..we had even greater fun tormenting them…egg in the chair…egging their house when we found it…after all boundaries are made by those who feel they are in charge!

Owhynot the reality is circumstances and situations require adapting and realization that not everything works in the same manner for various individual and situations. I required understanding and realization that along with increasing degree of consequences were to be expected based on my behavior.



find it interesting that IQ tests are dismissed when it is mentioned that there are race-based differences, but they're all of a sudden Revealed Truth when it comes to parenting...



 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 258
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/12/2013 4:11:13 PM
You know for someone who clearly stated that they are not telling someone else how they should raise/discipline their child, that's exactly what you are doing. Good that your method worked for you, but that doesn't mean they work for other children. Question: Is a playful pat on the shoulder violence? Because that playful pat is harder than any spank I've ever given. In fact, I patted my child's back harder to encourage a burp than I've ever spanked him. I have met numerous men and women whose parents spanked them as a child and have absolutely nothing wrong with them as an adult, who function within those "social norms" you speak of. Actually, the ones I've met who have never been spanked in their lives are the ones that have more issues.


I am most certainly not telling anyone how to raise their children. We are discussing spanking, and I am merely stating that I do not believe it to be a form of discipline. btw, from the above it would seem that you have never even spanked your child, you have simpy swatted at them. Again, perhaps unnecessary, but not the same as the spanking that others are talking about. I, too know many people who have been spanked & have turned out okay, but that doesn't mean that they learned how to behave in society due to being spanked. I have seen no evidence presented at all that would indicate that a child can learn how to act by spanking them.


So, I don't know why you're trying to equate the two.


I'm not, but you did. Go back a few posts (#502).


I believe that spanking should be a tool of last resort


I believe that spanking is not an educational tool at all. Just because it is available to parents doesn't follow that it teaches. Just because we disagree doesn't make either of us a better parent, either, and I never stated that it did. You seem awfully defensive for one so firm in your stance.


I advocate teaching them how the real world works. The entirety of human history backs me up.


Human history suggests that only those that are bigger & stronger succeed? Really? In the real world, people are incarcerated for laying their hands on another, but you don't advocate jailing parents who hit their kids. Neither do I, but real world consequences are such that this is true. We all attempt to teach our children how the real world works; we tell them not to get in a stranger's car, but we don't rape or murder them so as to educate them as to what can happen. Clearly, there are other ways to teach.


Self-control, diplomacy, tact. Need more?


You really believe that all of these are taught by spanking? I simply can not come up with any rational logic how one would lead to the other.


Geez, y0u're really going for that "World Champeen of Twisted Logic", aren't ya? In case you've forgotten, the topic at hand is spanking children, not domestic violence.


I'm pretty sure that hitting any family member falls under domestic violence. No matter, as the logic was yours. It was you who stated that is less harmful to be hit by someone who loves you than by a stranger.


Well perhaps I would have had a problem as I did not have the financial resources to provide either of my daughters a cell phone at age 12….but some custodial parents have child support cheques…spousal support cheques that enable them to have cell phones they can take away from their 12 year old children.

I never had an issue with the premise of consequences.


I never said you did. You asked me a question & I merely responded. Whether you or I were able, or chose to provide our children with a cell phone is a moot point. There are plenty of parents who don't receive cs, yet find it warranted to provide a child with a means of contacting them if they are away from that child. In any case, if your child doesn't have a cell phone, then I suppose you wouldn't worry about the consequence of them texting their friends on one after bed time, now would you? This isn't as personal as you'd like to make it in order to further a nonrelated agenda; you're wasting my time.


Owhynot the reality is circumstances and situations require adapting and realization that not everything works in the same manner for various individual and situations


Your point is?

Look, you all act as if I am on the attack, and you are quite wrong. I never intimated that spanking need constitute abuse. I think I was pretty clear in that my feeling is that spanking is simply not a valid means of teaching children, and I stand by that notion. I am not an expert in parenting, but, truth be told, I don't know of anyone who is who promotes spanking as an educational tool. Vast numbers of parents spank on ocassion, usually either when they are at the end of their rope, so to speak, or when they are simply to lazy to address the real issue at hand & simply want control in the moment. I am not calling them bad parents, merely noting that they are not teaching proper behavior by doing so. Certainly not everything works the same for every parent, nor the same for every child, but I fail to see that as evidence for physical punishment as a valid means of discipline aimed at educating children.
 FlyyinSolo87
Joined: 6/15/2011
Msg: 259
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/12/2013 5:21:19 PM
Never realized that there was a difference between swatting and spanking. To me it was all the same. All I knew was I used my hand on his bottom. In my opinion that's a spank. And just because you haven't seen the evidence, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. To be honest, I've never learned anything from my spankings, but that was because of the way and reasons they were doled out. When it came to the spankings I received, I never went without welts. And the last time I spanked(swatted) my son was after he had received a time out, he raised is fist to me in a threatening manner. The spanking he got was a pittance to what he would have received had he done that to another person, even someone his age. You may think it to be unnecessary, I saw otherwise. Now before you think that my spanking him had anything to do with that, I've only spanked him that 3, maybe 4 times, and never raised a first to him.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 1/7/2013
Msg: 260
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/13/2013 10:14:02 AM
Ohwhynot46: you do realize that I was kidding when I said that there was a prize for the most convoluted misuse of logic, don't you? There actually isn't a prize for it, so you can stop...


<div class="quote">
<div class="quote"> I advocate teaching them how the real world works. The entirety of human history backs me up.


Human history suggests that only those that are bigger & stronger succeed? Really?

Human history teaches that, just because you want something, holding your breath and throwing a tantrum isn't the way to get it. (unless, of course, what you want is to turn blue)


<div class="quote">
<div class="quote"> Self-control, diplomacy, tact. Need more?

(ohwhynot46) You really believe that all of these are taught by spanking?

It depends on how the discipline is administered. Dispensing spankings randomly, on a whim will not teach anything. Your "experts" could tell you this.


<div class="quote"> I simply can not come up with any rational logic...

You should have ended your sentence there. Truer words were never spoken.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 261
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/13/2013 6:11:28 PM

Ohwhynot46: you do realize that I was kidding when I said that there was a prize for the most convoluted misuse of logic, don't you? There actually isn't a prize for it, so you can stop...


Your attempts at deflection fail. You're being an azz.

Diplomacy: skill and tact in dealing with others.
Tact: ability to avoid being offensive.

Please how & under what circumstance spanking a child would enable a parent to teach either of these?


just because you want something, holding your breath and throwing a tantrum isn't the way to get it. (unless, of course, what you want is to turn blue)


So, spanking a child who holds their breath in order to get something teaches them that doing so isn't the way to get what they want? Explain how that is so. Doesn't not giving them what they want teach them that? I imagine that the spanking is, partcularly in the above instance, for the parent.

You have not presented any great logic in any of your posts, you have altogether avoided the application of logic. Not to mention that you have actually provided evidence of my claim, that spanking is for the parent, a release of frustration, a means of gaining control in a moment with no desire, much less ability to teach at that moment. Good job!
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 262
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/14/2013 6:46:01 PM
I absolutely agree about being sick of kids whose parents exercise no discipline at all, but there is an awful lot available between physical intervention & nothing at all. You are quite right in that those children who receive no direction & deal with no consequence are out of control, but simply because a parent doesn't spank doesn't mean that children have no guidance nor that there are no consequences for their behavior. I don't believe that time out is a means of teaching, either. It can give both a child & a parent time to calm down & address the sitaution in a manner conducive to learning, but it doesn't teach anything, in & of itself. It is the inablilty of a parent to work at parenting, to follow through, that results in unruly, spolied brats, not the lack of physical punishment. One doesn't have to experience the hurt of a bite in order to learn not to bite.

Throughout this thread, I have repeatedly seen that those who disagree with the notion that spanking is not teaching state that they have only spanked their children a few times. If it is true that those who spank are educating their children by doing so, it would logically follow that those children have only been taught that same number of times. I am pretty confident in stating that parents like yourself do indeed employ other methods of educating children as to proper behavior, and they work.
 S3v3ntek
Joined: 1/11/2013
Msg: 263
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 1/14/2013 8:25:57 PM

Does this change your mind about spanking your child?


Nah. I spank my child all the time. There are 2 ways that I prefer: I get the BIG old wooden spoon out and whack him on the butt till it's bright red. (That's always a classic)
Or I tell him to hold out his hands and I get the spatula and smack them with it. (It's fun, it's kind of like the game Whack-A-Mole)

:D
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