Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Over 30  > Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 76
view profile
History
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?Page 4 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)
^^^^ Well, I wouldn't expect them to be able to see it from your side of things.

Just about everyone around here has heard women say, probably numerous times in numerous different places, something to the effect that they want a "Real Man", a "man, not a boy". In every culture there is some similar way of putting it, the central idea being that manhood is provisional and must be earned, rather than simply being granted to males.

By contrast, every adult female is a woman just by virtue of her biology, her potential to bear children. But almost all cultures withhold respect from, and validation of, the males until and unless they first prove themselves. This is of course tremendously useful for the culture, because it can set the terms by which males earn respect as men, and in that way it can motivate the men to do things that the culture finds productive.

This has been studied quite a bit by sociologists and anthropologists, and the gist of the male role around the world is that you have to produce more than you consume. That is, men are expected, first, to provide for themselves. If somebody else provides for you, you’re less than a man; dependency is reserved for women and children. Second, the man should create additional wealth or a surplus so that it can provide for others in addition to himself.

That's all men are good for so far as many women are concerned. The single, never-married, no kids, bachelor who is beyond some age (35-ish?) is thus seen as having been deficient in this essential element of what constitutes manliness in their minds. He's failed to do what men are supposed to do, therefore he's highly suspect as not being a "real" man, of being "immature", a "boy, not a man".

I really think that's a large part of what is at the root of the stigma being discussed here -- women acting as cultural agents to "motivate the men to do things that the culture finds productive". It really doesn't matter the particular path one took or didn't take. It was not getting to the prescribed destination. A "real" man is just supposed to overcome all obstacles and difficulties in getting there.
 IggyD.A.Looks
Joined: 3/15/2007
Msg: 77
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/16/2009 12:28:01 PM
What you say is not entirely true. I had my own bussiness and supported my wife and her 2 kids. I gave her what most women say they want. I showed her love and respect every day. I'm not saying I was the perfect hubby, but no one is perfect. I feel for the OP because i get the same reaction and I'm 20 years younger. The only differance is that I was married. That just adds to the stigma of being an older male with no kids and single.

The problem is that most people think they want something other than what they really want and need, or they go after what looks greener but in the long run is really nothing but crap they dont need.
 IggyD.A.Looks
Joined: 3/15/2007
Msg: 78
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/16/2009 1:05:36 PM
Not saying I care what others think about me. Just that if people weren't so closed minded it would help them get past that kind of stuff.
 Bluesman2008
Joined: 4/2/2008
Msg: 79
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/16/2009 6:15:58 PM
This is definitely not the Chinese year of tolerance is it
 Mr_SmartFun
Joined: 1/16/2009
Msg: 80
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/16/2009 7:59:33 PM

There are basically two kinds of guys in this world: cads and dads. The women leave with the cads while sticking dads with the bill.


Well, this is completely wrong, along with your completely wrong understanding of feminism.

First of all your decidely dark outlook ain't helping you, unless you think being a victim is really attractive. You're overlooking happy marriages (they exist), marriages that sour due to both partners, and cases where the guy is abusive or on the prowl. In SOME cases there are women like you described. Frankly, so what? Are you saying that you can't possibly find one that ISN'T? That's merely the start of your problems.

Secondly, feminism is basically the concept that the sexes should be treated equally, which is still a radical concept with too many parts of the globe. That's it. Of course things get fantastically tricky when it comes to divorce. Though I would say for as many stories the guys here can provide of gold-digging no-account ex-wives, there are also ones of deadbeat ex-husbands. Back to the main concept, which is barely 50 years old, it's simply seeking parity between the sexes after eons of great inequality. The notion that "feminism" is the realm of angry man-hating bull dyke fat chicks is usually put forth by bitter guys and suspect ideologues. You probably can dig up one or two of them somewhere, but stop the lie that they "represent" feminism.


You say: "Prove this is true."
I say: "Prove this isn't true."


Actually dude, the burden of proof is on you.

To the OP's point....I'm a never-married bachelor of 45. I inevitably get those questions- "how come you never married?". It's to be expected, and it's only a big deal if you let it be. There are a bunch of people that can't fathom a normal person making it to a certain point in life and never marrying. To them, no matter what your reason, they feel you must have a problem. Then there are others who are actually in the same boat. You can choose to fixate on those that judge you, or you can seek out women who are either like you or are not hung up on it.

Certainly at this point you've got to be over worrying what every single women thinks of you. Do you want to spend the time you have left obessing over this, or just putting in the effort to find a women that wants to be with you? It'll be a bit harder, but guess what- that's the result of the decisions you've already made in your life. Accept it, move on.
 Mr_SmartFun
Joined: 1/16/2009
Msg: 81
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/16/2009 8:03:19 PM

besides a lot of those folks out on the southwest coast seem to be stuck in that state of mind that says .... you aren't" cool or hip or one of us", unless you dress like this, or drive one of those, or make this much money etc. etc.


I live out on the Southwest coast...and have lived in the North East as well. That attitude is not unique to here- it's anywhere that shallow materialistic people reside. Which is to say, everywhere. And a bunch of us out here are nothing like that.


instead of emulating all of these sorry examples of humanity that Hollywood has been showing us for the last 50 years.


Oh please- Hollywood-bashing is so passe.
 Forums001
Joined: 4/15/2009
Msg: 82
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/17/2009 6:15:36 AM
When women criticize me for being 40 and never married and no kids, yet she has been married, divorced and has 2 kids let's say, what she is bashing me for holds no water.
Sorry but if I am to be raked across the coals for not adding to the single parent world, then I'll rake that woman across with me for being a single parent and thinking it is fine.

Sure I am 40, no ex-wife, no kids, no support payments...NO BAGGAGE
Here is an example for those ladies who seem to rip apart us non married/no kids 40+ year olds.
Your ex gets the kids every 2nd weekend. Now let's say I had kids as well. So I get mine every 2nd weekend too, ahh but I get them the weekend your ex gets them. Oops looks like that weekend is shot, just like the following one when you have the kids back.
Now I have none and so my time is flexible.
Also being single, never married and no kids at 40 does not scream committment issues, a player etc. Means I just have not found that right person to spend, hopefully, my life with. Again women with their generalizations are to be deemed acceptable BUT when we men generalize women, look out.

As I say, that is fine if you ladies wnt to pass up a guy because he hasn't travelled down the married, divorced, kids, support payments road. But remember, you may be passing up a guy who will treat you great and make you happy. You won't know unless you get rid of that assumption and generalization about him.

Most people who criticize anyone for their single life etc, usually are jealous because they wish they were in their shoes. It is much easier to bash people for things you are jealous of than compliment them.

I found more people much older than me say "You are doing it right, you are not rushing into anything. When you meet that person, you will know."
Most who put that stigma on men for being a bachelor at 40+ usually are women and most got married young and had kids young and divorced with some resentment towards their ex.
Funny how I have no problems with anyone who has been married and has kids, but they have a huge problem with me never being married and having no kids. Not my loss that is for sure.
 Fifi47
Joined: 8/19/2004
Msg: 83
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/17/2009 12:54:04 PM
So American women who have not been married are not worthy of American men who have not been married? It is difficult enough finding a man to date when a woman is middle aged and has not been married, but the men are now all seeking women who live overseas?
 Mr_SmartFun
Joined: 1/16/2009
Msg: 84
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/17/2009 7:15:12 PM
Hey tkdblake93-


I'm sure a lot of women on this site take the initiative and contact you first. Am I wrong?


No, you're not. I've gotten a lot of initial contacts. Actually though, my profile is turned off at the moment as I don't have time to date.


but the truth is the majority of marriages overall end in divorce.


No, they don't. I don't have the link at hand, but I read that the "fact" that 50% of marriages end in divorce is a misnomer. You have to understand statistics. Consider this- 100 couples get married one day. Over time 25% of those marriages end in divorce. That would mean, obviously, that the remaining 75% of the marriages didn't. People from that 25% go off and get remarried, and then a third of THOSE marriages end in divorce. But when you add ALL the marriages up you have a divorce rate of 50% (not in my example, but if you were to keep on going with 3rd and 4th marriages). When you look at it you see a subset of people who marry and divorce more often inflate the divorce rate.


I think one should get married only when they're ready to settle down and have children.


I can't imagine people doing otherwise, though wanting to have children is optional.


Even when a guy has taken all the precautions, there's no guarantees she's not going to take him to the cleaners.


Well, first of all, you're leaving out what could cause a divorce. That's a big factor that determines how vindictive the other spouse may or may not be.

And marriage, like life, comes with no guarantees. There's no guarantee that your spouse won't go crazy or develop a disease or brain tumor either. You're taking a leap of faith with marriage:it's full of risks, but for most people it's worth the rewards.
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 85
view profile
History
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/18/2009 12:41:04 PM

...I read that the "fact" that 50% of marriages end in divorce is a misnomer. You have to understand statistics. Consider this- 100 couples get married one day. Over time 25% of those marriages end in divorce. That would mean, obviously, that the remaining 75% of the marriages didn't. People from that 25% go off and get remarried, and then a third of THOSE marriages end in divorce. But when you add ALL the marriages up you have a divorce rate of 50% (not in my example, but if you were to keep on going with 3rd and 4th marriages). When you look at it you see a subset of people who marry and divorce more often inflate the divorce rate.

I think you're looking at this wrong. There are two main ways the value of X in the statement "X% of marriages end in divorce" is determined.

One is to take the current divorce and marriage rates and simply divide them, presuming that the sample of people who married previously and are now divorcing is not substantially any different from the population of people marrying today. You can further tighten down this sample by only looking at first marriages and divorces, which is usually done so that the chronic marrying/divorcing subset you're concerned about doesn't skew the result. Of course people have looked at the subset of second, third, etc. marriages to see if they're more or less prone to end in divorce than first marriages, and almost all studies have concluded they are.

Anyway, I think the current value of X from these sorts of studies, which are pretty simple to do from publicly available statistics (because marriage and divorce are a matter of public record) is in the 40-42% range. In that sense, you're right that 50% is a "misnomer", but not a huge one.

The second way to come up with X is to follow specific people over the course of their marriages, starting with when they first got married. The standard length of time to follow such people is fifteen years, though there's some variability. Obviously you just can't follow people indefinitely up to 75 or more years of marriage, so you rarely see any data for periods longer than 25 years. Again, typically only people entering into their first marriages are recruited into these kinds of studies. It's more difficult and expensive to do it this way, but one gets better numbers, especially for subsets further broken down by some other demographic variable (age, race, education level, religious affiliation, number of premarital sex partners, etc). Of course in generalizing to the greater population one has to be careful to select ones sample carefully.

It's from this variety of studies that we get the frequently heard wisdom that it's maybe not so good to marry young (say, 18, plus or minus), or that the divorce rate for college educated women who marry at age 25 or higher is about 25% (up to when the study ends after however many years), which is is still worse odds than russian roulette.
 Iamrealdeal09
Joined: 9/11/2009
Msg: 86
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/18/2009 2:13:07 PM
16 madison, I disagree with that, I am near 34 years old , have never been married, no kids, etc, etc. My problem is I never even get a chance. People who see me in person and know me are shocked at that stat, but I say, hey, see my luck on POF, (none), and you know why....lol.....

Anyways, I think it is just meant for some of us to never get married or have kids, no matter how good we can be to someone. Right now, I really do not feel like getting involved with anyone. I have "tried" too hard for months, and now just worn out by it all, I am happy single, doing my own thing. Unless someone comes around all of a sudden and sweeps me off my feet, I will probably never be married. Seems like women in my area have so much drama in their lives, it is really not worth the effort.
 laktor223
Joined: 7/4/2009
Msg: 87
view profile
History
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/18/2009 11:37:32 PM

I think the OP's problem comes not so much because he is a lifelong bachelor, but because, his profile reeks of negativity and his picture is not that flattering.
.

You're entitled to your opinion, but in actuality, my profile shows a fairly positive side of myself. And I am being honest, too. I like my profile picture and so do a lot of my friends.
 ricknc1965
Joined: 9/1/2008
Msg: 88
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/19/2009 1:29:51 AM
I spent a great many years being the nice guy that I am, thinking women wanted to be treated with respect. It took me till my 40's to understand that women under about 35 don't WANT that in a man. They either reject "nice guys" as being somehow weak or else they keep them in their pockets as "friends". They REALLY want the excitement of being with those guys who aren't so nice, who cheat and disrespect them, or worse. After the woman spends a few years with a jerk like that, who left her with a kid or two, then she's ready for a nice guy to treat her (and her kids) right. But you know what's ironic is that after being in so many relationships with women who took advantage of my gentleman nature, now I think I can easily be the jerk they always wanted.
 aggiedog
Joined: 1/13/2009
Msg: 89
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/19/2009 7:25:51 AM
maybe we are to nice.some women just play then they go.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 90
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/19/2009 8:28:55 AM
Why is it that the guys who want "non-American" women never stay where they got them? If the culture is one you love, go live there. Why bring someone from another culture to a culture you hate so much?
 Forums001
Joined: 4/15/2009
Msg: 91
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/19/2009 11:47:38 AM

dont put them down..........I just think there must be something wrong with them that in the 50 or more years they have been on this earth they still havent found anyone to marry.


So there is something wrong with a guy over 40 that has never married?
Wow and I guess it is a great thing for a woman to be divorded and have kids or never married but has kids? Oh yes but then THAT says it was the man's fault.
If a man has no kids and has never been married and he is over 40, that is a bad thing right?
A woman over 40, divorced with a kid or two is a good thing right?
A man who dates younger is a pervert and dirty old man, right?
A woman who dates younger is finding a compatible partner, right?

Lovin these dohble standards as we go along. What else can be added to this list?
 Brownlady1953
Joined: 12/12/2008
Msg: 92
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/19/2009 2:02:21 PM
Marriage is highly overrated, as most heterosexual marriages are highly dysfunctional, and if they are honest, the people involved in them will tell you so.
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 93
view profile
History
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/19/2009 5:16:41 PM
Op...go read some of the horror stories in "single parents" or just listen to the people around you...you didn't miss a thing....and neither did i.
 laktor223
Joined: 7/4/2009
Msg: 94
view profile
History
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/19/2009 11:24:55 PM
13karat: OP here. I do have a regular shift at work and I don't like the particular hours I have, but believe me, there is nothing I can do about it. Even though I've worked in this place 13 years, I'm still practically at the bottom of the seniority list. And as for never owning a home, well, I had every intention of eventually owning a home, AFTER I got married, or at least once I was engaged. That never happened, of course. Two people saving for a home is a heck of a lot easier than one person, unless that person has an extremely well paying job. I'm pretty good at math and with the incomes I've had during my life, it would have taken many, many years of living frugally for me and me alone to be able to purchase a home, more years than I was willing to give, and I'm not ashamed of that. Living 10 years or more going nowhere and doing nothing was something I wasn't willing to do. I wouldn't be able to do anything with friends and spending money to take a woman out would be out of the question. My sister and her husband were married about 9 years before they saved up enough to buy a home, and this was with 2 incomes.

People here ask what have I been doing for the past 40 years that I haven't met anyone who I've wanted to marry. Well, I've been living my life just like everyone else, going out, doing things I enjoy, alone and with friends, being a happy person most of the time, getting a few dates here and there, but mutual love has simply not occurred. I don't know why. It's easy for people to wonder why, especially those that go through life and somehow naturally meet people and form boyfriend/girlfriend relationships, get married etc. For whatever reason, it happens for them, for the majority of people, I suppose. But for these individuals, they can never truly understand why it doesn't occur for everyone. And for people like myself, it's the opposite. We, or at least myself, can never truly understand how it happens for you. I'm doing the same thing you are, so what's going on here? I don't know. But, I've still enjoyed my life, even without marriage and without a whole lot of female companionship. .... and by the way, my two best friends are women. I continue to enjoy a lot of fun activities and I live life to the fullest, as best as is possible. If a woman comes into my life, awesome! If not, I'm still having fun.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 95
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/20/2009 9:39:40 AM
I had a stigma once, but laser eye surgery took care of it...

Bimbly
 Monkeynator
Joined: 2/10/2009
Msg: 96
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/22/2009 7:05:36 PM
I believe in examining age differences as percentages and stages of life. There are also unique circumstances for everyone, for example, my older cousins do not look anywhere near their age so why should not consider going out with someone who looks close to them?

Regardless, I don't know if I could suppress the feeling that someone was just looking for some younger tail if they did not at least consider people of the same age.
 NappyKAT
Joined: 7/2/2008
Msg: 97
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/23/2009 3:43:53 AM
So this thread has me thinking.....

I still hold the same opinions as I previously wrote about Over-40-never-married-no-children (O40NMNK) bachelors, but maybe it's a matter of preference too. If you are over 40, I would prefer someone who has been divorced instead of someone who has never been married. If you are under 40 then it's not really a bid deal that you have never been married or been divorced or whatever your status is.

I would also like someone who has the experience of being a parent - and I do mean the experience of being a parent - not just some dude who can claim 'daddy-mabies' but has otherwise never parented. I prefer single fathers who have full or joint custody or otherwise contributing wholeheartedly to the raising of the child as a non-custodial parent. I am not interested in dads who offer child support but has otherwise not seen or known the status of their child for years at a time.

I would like someone who's experiences mirror mine - being that of divorced parent. I don't think a never-married-no-kids guy would be a good match for me because our experiences are too different and that leads to different expectations. An experience with an O40NMNK guy has me thinking they are spoiled. I told one I was not interested and I walked away only to look back to see that he was pouting with his head down! Do I need an over-40 kid that I didn't birth from my own loins? Also O40NMNK men can treat their women like queens... while being resentful of your children. They are not his kids and he may feel is competing for your time and affection with them. Another reason prefer men and fathers.

I do notice however that divorced men and single fathers would love a relationship with a never married single women who isn't a mom. They find this quality more attractive in women and they don't want the same 'baggage' that they themselves carry.

Divorced men can offer some challenges themselves. Some are a little bitter and disheartened about relationships and women - especially if the divorce was bitter or there was infidelity. I don't want someone with that kind of attitude, insecurity or problem. I am not to play nurse-maid to anyone's feelings or 'prove' to them that women are good and not cheating gold-digging whores - which seems to be what many people - not just men- want a person to do.

And I don't see what shyness has to do with it. I was very shy and I'm still an introvert and still managed an LTR. I do believe there is truly somebody out here for everybody - even tho I don't believe in 'soul mates' or 'Mr & Ms Right.' I believe in Mr. and Mrs. Relative Right' - meaning regardless of the type of person or the how the relationship turns out that person was the right person for you at that particular point of time in your life, even if for nothing more than to teach you a lesson on who to avoid in the future. But you gotta not be afraid to take that chance and land the relationship and get married if that is the thing you want to do. Someone who reached the age of 40 and way beyond to near 60 says to me that they have a lot of fear about relationships and may have avoided them to stave off hurt save their vulnerability. I understand self-protection but that's not necessarily a virtue when it comes to relationships and personal commitment.
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 98
view profile
History
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/23/2009 8:36:02 AM
^^^^ Ok, so you have the stigma. The thread's question is, "Why?".

Or is this just something peculiar to people who have a "shoot first, maybe ask questions later" bent?
 laktor223
Joined: 7/4/2009
Msg: 99
view profile
History
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/23/2009 10:50:36 PM

And I don't see what shyness has to do with it. I was very shy and I'm still an introvert and still managed an LTR. I do believe there is truly somebody out here for everybody - even tho I don't believe in 'soul mates' or 'Mr & Ms Right.' I believe in Mr. and Mrs. Relative Right' - meaning regardless of the type of person or the how the relationship turns out that person was the right person for you at that particular point of time in your life, even if for nothing more than to teach you a lesson on who to avoid in the future. But you gotta not be afraid to take that chance and land the relationship and get married if that is the thing you want to do. Someone who reached the age of 40 and way beyond to near 60 says to me that they have a lot of fear about relationships and may have avoided them to stave off hurt save their vulnerability. I understand self-protection but that's not necessarily a virtue when it comes to relationships and personal commitment.


Well, being shy means it was difficult to ask someone out. I remember times that I had to pick up the phone numerous times before I got up the nerve to call and ask for a date. And when out on a date, it was hard to loosen up and be myself. I'd struggle to get a conversation going, when normally, I have no trouble chatting with people. So why can't you understand how difficult under those circumstances it would be to continue dating one person and getting into a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship?

You say that someone close to 60 and never married says to you they have a fear about relationships. Well, such is not the case with me at all. I've always wanted to be in a relationship. I have no fear of them, so you'd be wrong in my case, at least. Assumptions can be very wrong, so it's dangerous to make them.
 laktor223
Joined: 7/4/2009
Msg: 100
view profile
History
Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?
Posted: 10/24/2009 9:28:56 AM

i do like to be very up front so i juggle between the best of both worlds honesty is the best policy ive been here forever trying to just communicate with woman it doesent work what do you do? how can you give of the wrong impression if your totally honest theres someone for every one "is,nt there"? i hate being a bachelor, it stinks.


My sentiments exactly! Yep, it stinks being a bachelor. I will always be upfront and honest. I won't lie, no matter what, even if it makes it very tough to find someone.
Show ALL Forums  > Over 30  > Why is it such a stigma to be an older bachelor?