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 MizBexReturns
Joined: 8/19/2009
Msg: 51
Lack of KidsPage 3 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
I am a woman in my 40's who never had children, conceived once with my ex-husband, lost it and was never able to conceive again.

Happy now?

Additionally, and this may be off topic, but I don't care. What is it with people who do have children and think they are "better" than we non-parents. Cause truth be told, in most cases those little bundles of joy you have put out into society really aren't anything to brag about. Rarely do I run into a child of a 40 something or 50 something that comes without a sense of entitlement, they have no social graces and no respect for anyone, including their parents, there are a few but they are rare.

Furthermore, I recently had a go round with a single father who, had a son with a woman he was married to and later divorced, who turned into an alcoholic and later died from drinking. But not before marrying and having another child with another man who was also an alcoholic, so now there is a half brother involved as well issues of not letting the brothers spend time with one another.

Back to the single father, after his divorce he proceeded to live with another woman for eight years who had two daughters and then the woman went MIA. One daughter went to live with her biological father, while the other daughter chose to remain living with the single father, who she is not of blood relation and the parents let her.

Needless to say, after hearing that soap opera and being expected to accommodate ALL THE KIDS schedules and his obligations to all THE KIDS, because after all, I have no kids why shouldn't I drop EVERYTHING to fit into his life, I made my exit. However, the question that continues to linger in my mind is this. Why do SOME people HAVE children when they shouldn't. Shouldn't that really be a bigger concern, than why people don't have kids?

When I first started dating after my divorce, the single dads lined up to meet me and the reason I heard so often was, amongst other good qualities I have, because I had no children. They felt it would be easier if their children didn't have to compete with someone else's children. And since I didn't have any children, my schedule would be much more flexible to accommodate theirs. Again, why would I have a life since I don't have kids? I am mean really, what is the point. rolling eyes

Now having said all of that, I do normally prefer men who are fathers, they just seem to be nicer people and kinder. However after my last single father sole custody episode, never again. Shared custody, great, I am there. However, whenever I read the forums and all the rants from men complaining about single mothers, I have to say there is a lot of truth in what they are saying, because single fathers with sole custody are very much the same.
 EquinesRmine
Joined: 10/1/2009
Msg: 52
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/15/2009 9:21:46 AM
Of the choices provide in the profile form, there was no option to say: kids from a previous marriage/relationship/affairs/wild oat sewing, etc., are okay.

The options were: prefer not to say, yes, no and they're all over the age of 18.

You choose not to communicate with anyone whose profile says no to children but that could be rather unfair when 'no' could simply mean the woman doesn't wish to have biological kids and 'yes' could only mean to accept your kids and no to biological ones.

I was once contacted by a guy who was fully intent on having his own children and seemed to overlook the fact that I didn't want to have biological kids. He thought he could change my mind just because his Mother had kids well past the age of 50! There were too many other things that led me to feel we weren't compatible or I might have considered risking my life to have his kids.
 mirabelle13
Joined: 9/16/2009
Msg: 53
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/15/2009 10:09:15 AM
Ismene.

Once again I have to agree with you.

I was in a LT live in relationship with a man for about 6 years. (Long term to me being in this day and age the relationship lasted longer than 1 year.) When we parted, I was more upset about missing his family (one of the ex-wives, her current husband, her daughters, the son-in -law, the 2 grandchildren, the grandparents-in-law, his mother, his cousins with all their children) than I was about missing him. I had grown very attached to the kids and our quarterly vacation trips together.

Just because I don't have children does not mean I an devoid of compassion or unaware of the life altering episode it can be.

I now am very careful about who I date, because I don't want to loose another group of people that I loved so much.

Really, I wish men would stop generalizing about childless women. We are not all frigid, barren, uncaring, emotionless "witches"!
 rearguard*2
Joined: 2/8/2008
Msg: 54
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Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/15/2009 10:41:12 AM
Far from generalizing about childless women, I simply asked a question. Is that too forbidden, or are some people just having difficulty understanding simple sentences in the English language ?

The non-responses of mirabelle and ismene certainly lead me to think that this must be the case. I certainly said nothing about "frigid, barren, uncaring, emotionless "witches"!
 CloudHidden
Joined: 9/28/2009
Msg: 55
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/15/2009 10:54:29 AM
As the two above posters have pointed out, just because a person has no biological children, doesn’t mean they are some how selfish, cold or emotionally deformed. Many of us have come from LTR’s where children were already present and the option to have our own never occurred or we preferred what we had.

There are a lot of single ex-step parents floating around out there who put in a lot of emotional time and energy and because the biological approval stamp never came through, we get to be the ones who now have “No children” checked on their profile.

As the generalization for women has been pointed out above, it applies to men too, I’m tired of it being assumed that I’m irresponsible, selfish, lack family values and that “you just don’t understand because you have never had any of you own family” comments.
 rearguard*2
Joined: 2/8/2008
Msg: 56
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Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/15/2009 11:13:26 AM
Well, I do see that this kind of question is a touchy one. I do think that some of the responses are projecting the authors' feelings onto the question itself and I don't really see the relation between the idea that people used to the childless lifestyle might find the presence of children in a situation a challenge and the list of negative stereotypes cyted by the respondents.

One of the hardest things that couples who have children have to face is the dramatic changes in lifestyle that accompany the arrival of the children. If its hard for us, why is it not hard for those who have not already gone through it to suddenly find themselves in that situation?

Its got nothing to do with selfishness, etc...
 mirabelle13
Joined: 9/16/2009
Msg: 57
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/15/2009 11:20:00 AM
Ismene,

I'm the one who stated "witches" in my reply. . .

M
 rearguard*2
Joined: 2/8/2008
Msg: 58
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Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/15/2009 11:24:47 AM
Again, all the "assumptions" are entirely coming from your mind. I personally have no assumptions, just speculations and questions. Of course, almost everyone has had the experience of family life, if only from their own youth. I personally have dated women with children, and had good relationships with them at a time when I had no children of my own. I was only wondering how women who had no children of their own, either natural or surrogate, viewed the prospect of dating a man with kids.

Where all the negative stuff came from I have no idea at all.......
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 59
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/15/2009 11:34:33 AM

I get not wanting kids or can't have kids but the others that don't raise a red flag for me or am I reading more into it than I should?

If a woman's inability to have children, or her choice to not have children bothers you, don't date them.
I don't know if anyone else notices this, but it isn't all that uncommon for the eldest children of working families in the 60s and 70s to have had considerable responsibility for assisting in the care and raising of the younger children...and even back then familes of 5,6,even 8 kids was fairly common. So to ASSume that a childless 40+ woman is somehow flawed,unhealthy,selfish,cold, doesn't like sex,whatever! could be misguided. I know one couple who raised 9 foster kids and never had any of their own.
Cindy O
 rearguard*2
Joined: 2/8/2008
Msg: 60
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Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/15/2009 11:38:13 AM
Again, that is your interpretation. To deny that raising a family imposes on the parents a point of view that is distinct from that of a childless person I find amazing. Having lived considerable periods in both states over my lifetime, I can definitely say that my pre-children view of priorities and my post-children view of priorities are vastly different. I would really like to hear from anybody who feels that this is not the case and why.

I also think that more than 2 decades of child raising has pretty well conditioned my thinking about life in a manner that would not have happened if I had never had kids. Certainly my childless friends don't spend any time at all saving for school, looking for places to live near schools and playgrounds, choosing holidays in kid friendly environments, have social lives that are not based on the needs of the kids, take career and financial risks that are not particularly wise if you have a family to support, and in many other ways behave in ways that would be not feasible to those with kids.

It really isn't rocket science. Do anything for a few decades and it becomes a habit for most people. Nothing biased or closed minded there at all.
 wacowboy3
Joined: 6/26/2008
Msg: 61
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/15/2009 12:14:59 PM
I have no problem dating women without kids or thats kids are gown. I spent most of my married life living for my children, now is the best time to be able to share a relationship with someone that does have the time. My problem is I keep finding women, that still have kids living with them and they are in there 50's or even 60's, or they spent some much time with work, or there kids, they seem to not have time to date. I would like to find a woman, that either dosent have children or they are grown. I always enjoyed supporting my children in school, sports, programs etc, but now should be the best time in life because we dont have all the demands that childrearing demands. Steve
 SueCat51
Joined: 8/11/2007
Msg: 62
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Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/15/2009 5:15:08 PM
OP - you just DON'T GET IT! Children are a choice. Marriage is a choice. I could go on & on. Funny thing about kids, in Texas, there's more to getting a hunting or fishing license, than there is to have kids. For me, what would be a "red flag", is one who brings children into this world via many different parents. Example: 4 kids, from 4 different fathers or mothers. Another red flag is to bring a child into this world, and not to provide the child with a loving, nuturing, caring, home environment. Also, I do question a 45 or 50+ year old person who wants to start another family. Go figure, there are things in life that can't be explained.
 MarvaJanuice
Joined: 6/3/2008
Msg: 63
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/16/2009 12:28:57 PM
Do you know that even my work life is violated by this thought of childlessness.

Many times I had to work the holidays because "afterall, Marva, Christmas and Thanksgiving are for children..I didnt think youd mind seeing you dont have a family."

Dont have a family? I have a family. I have Dad, brothers and aunts and uncles...cousins, neices, nephews...Wouldnt mind?...
One of my coworkers has 2 kids and husband. Her mom lives half a block away which she sees daily as she picks up the kids after school. She actually said to me "But Marva, I wanna spend time with my kids and mom." when I wouldnt change holidays the ONE year I got Christmas off. I thought you selfish b*tch. I get ONE Christmas to go to the mountains to spend with my family and get to see them ONE time that year..in a YEAR!...and you want me to change it? You see your freakin kids every day and tuck them in bed every night. You see your mom every day. You will open presents with them after work and spend all year with them..ALL YEAR.
And I am the one being selfish? I'M the one that doesnt understand the concept of priorities?
 FriendlyFreeSpirit
Joined: 7/27/2009
Msg: 64
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/16/2009 4:47:37 PM
^^No, absolutely not. You're not being selfish wanting to spend Christmas with your family, whether they include your children or not. Many parents DO see their lives as somehow more a priority than childless peers.
But I agree with rearguard. Who I was pre-child and who I am now - two different people. I know what it's like to be a single adult. I didn't give birth until I was 38. And it's a different world to that of a parent, a different headspace, different experiences.
 DivineBovine
Joined: 5/13/2005
Msg: 65
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Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/16/2009 5:38:05 PM

my impression of the lifestyle and habits of those friends of mine who are in that situation is that they would probably have a bit of a time relating to someone who has raised a family.


this doesn't make sense to me...

most of us grow up in families and have some idea of how they work. i can relate to my family members who have children just as well as i relate to those who don't have them.
 Dancing_4_You
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 66
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Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/17/2009 2:53:38 AM
i decide to adopt at age five. it took me 45 years. maybe you should date older women!

seriously, if you undertand not wanting them or not being able to have them, what is left that disturbs you so? i find your OP confusing. what if they had kids and beat them? would that be more amenable? what if they worked all day long with kids or even the elderly? maybe you should get the whole story, before you make judgements about people's character and ability to nurture and love. it takes work meeting the right person and too many rash judgements will only hurt your own chances at meeting a really good person--with or w/o kids!

krebby: as to your comment re adopting kids of color. my kids are african american and peruvian. nobody stopped us, but i was raised in an african american culture back east and had already mentored african american children within the african american community and with their blessings. plus, few were adopting pre teens. my ex also took in south american kids during medical stays in the states (mostly done by his first wife). i made sure my kids had the influence of both cultures and believe me, we covered a lot of territory in that realm. the reason many african americans balk, is that many "cute african american babies" were adopted into all white families way back-- and they went through hell when they were raised in all white neighborhoods and left out/teased in the teen years. also there is often a political divide amongst the older social workers of african american and latino descent. i had to fight that one tooth and nail. but my kids were old enough to speak out and their birth mother supported me from afar. i made sure to live in a culturally mixed area until my little one was around 17. we moved here to the shore, where it is way too white. it bothers me more than her, but we liked the geography. now my eldest and her mate, have moved here by choice. time to more fully integrate this neighborhood! there are a few racists here and there, but for the most part they are happy. my son also likes to come down and visit. maybe he will eventually move here too. hmph. to think at age 40, some dude passed "me" by for this reason!!!!

re single versus parental: i worked with kids so, for me, the real eye opener was the 24 / and the fact that kids were not as "nice" to moms as they were to mentors! i did find with my childless ex SO that he always took the viewpoint of the child and not the parent!!! not sure that would apply to all people w/o children.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 67
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/17/2009 6:01:09 AM
My mother told me she would kill me if I ever came home pregnant.

I never met a man who I knew was going to stay around long enough and too many women have been stuck with the task of raising children alone. My mother was one and growing up without a father and being the last of 5 kids really stuck in my mind that I didn't just want to be another statistic. I would never bring a life into this world without a loving husband to be a father to a child. I don't believe in having children out of wedlock and the men that I've dated throughout the years were not interested in marriage. I'm not one to enforce rules on men.

Having a happy and healthy sex life like I have always enjoyed is not possible with children around 24/7 either. I find dating single fathers to be awkward and difficult. I feel I'm being thrust into an instant family and there is no intimacy of any kind with his children around. Just last week a newly divorced single dad insisted that I come over for dinner, with the hot tub afterwards, and wanted me to spend the night- on a first date - with his 9 year old DAUGHTER in the house. When I insisted on meeting in a public place when he didn't have his daughter I didn't hear from him again. Disgusting and creepy to me.


There is a lot of freedom that women have to give up to be a mother, and god bless em for wanting to do that. I guess I'm selfish? No - I'm a realist. I think before people take on parenthood they are not relatistic and I often hear them saying "I didn't know it was going to be so hard".

Secondary to that I've always had an inexplicable fear of pregnancy and childbirth.
There are plenty of women having babies all the time, so the population will deplete anytime soon because of me.
I have NEVER met any man in my life whose main goal was to get married and have children. It seems that many marriages have broken up after adding children because it complicates life in general quite a bit more. More responsilibty=more stress. I really cherish my alone time and freedom - mothers do not have that. It seems that most mothers lives are chaos to me and they have no energy and love left over for a man.


I work with children everyday, and because I am not a parent, they see me as more of an ally. I love children and think a happy healthy childhood is SO crucial - something I was denied. There are so many people having kids and abusing them, it really breaks my heart, and I wonder why such people would have them. When people have children for their own selfish reasons or because of their own carelessness it's tragic.
I think far too many women are having children because of social pressure or to validate their womanhood. God forbid they should become the eccentric spinster with cats

Little do they know after divorces and the kids are all grown and moved out, they're in the same situation anyways.
Not having children is NOT a red flag sweetie, having more than 3 children all with different baby daddies is a red flag my dear.
 Blues1963
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 68
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/17/2009 4:53:38 PM
They're having problems in Germany with a rapidly aging population. The reason is they're so well eductaed, and many highly educated people choose not to have children unless the circumstances are ideal.

No kids? I see that as a sign of an intelligent, concientious woman who probably isn't too deeply indoctrinated by a church. Yes, It could be fertility issues and other things, but I quite often find the former to be true.

Just for the record, I love kids and don't mind dating women that have them. I just never had any of my own because I thought a good wife was a pre-requisite. AT 46, I've pretty much decided there's already enough of them in the world without me contributing.
 *mae* flowers
Joined: 1/15/2006
Msg: 69
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 10:21:13 AM
I have my own biological child, 11 going on 12, and she is, well, a "chick magnet." She's not a liability, she's a magnet. I know that I'm biased, but when my Claudie is around, and women see me without a ring, they start noticing more. They want to be a mommy, even if the child is not theirs biologically.
When I was single, I spent 6 months getting to know a kid through a sponsored project. He was living in a foster home and I simply fell in love with him, so I went through another few months of filling out paperwork to adopt him. He was African American and I was not. A few days before the adoption went through, a well known African American group halted the adoption because my little boy would not be brought up in that "culture." It was OK for him to be in sterile foster home, but not OK for him to be brought up in a home that loved him, regardless of whether we were not of the same race. I fought to keep him for many months after, to no avail. Those were simply the darkest period of my life because I loved him deeply.


I can imagine how you must have felt... I feel bad for you Krebby. It doesn't take long for an attachment to form .
Although I have three bioligical children of my own I am also a foster parent both overseas and at home and have been since 1999. It's hearbreaking to see the number of children that have somehow fallen through the cracks. And to be denied a good home....that's a shame, a real shame.
I am currently in the process of adopting my 14 year old foster child who has been with me since December of 2006. She is of mixed race. Japanese, Spanish and Cree (like me) and she has such a big personality...everyone loves her.
It seems to be taking forever though, so much red tape. I'm just waiting on a court date and have been for months. It would be a fantastic Christmas present for us all if this goes through by December. We're all keeping our fingers crossed. And then let the celebrations begin...a proper welcome into the family.

Again...so sorry how that turned out Krebby.


You have my greatest respect.

...maeflowers
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 70
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 11:22:26 AM
Some things, like the life of a child shouldn't be gambled,,,

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!

Many of us who have chosen not to have children on a whim, truly realize how precious and significant a life is and don't take it lightly.
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 71
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Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 12:09:55 PM
Not having children is simply a choice,it is better to realize that you are not cut out to be a parent than it is to be one and do a lousy job of it.I have respect for anyone who knows themself well enough to not follow a path they know is not right for them..and in this case often have their chracter questioned for it.
 slumpy
Joined: 9/21/2009
Msg: 72
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 12:22:22 PM
New world order... mass media and politics being shoved down everyone's throat. New expectations from media stating women's equality, go back to school, etc.

Fifteen pieces of mail with fine print that people spend time reading. Mass electronic communications, electronic gadgets that communicate, etc.

Gay marriage, civil union pushing, etc.

Not like it was in the fiftees... there is not the respect of family like there was back then.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 73
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 1:13:59 PM

Not always!!! Why do people automatically make this assumption? Is everyone really that limited?


People don't become parents at gunpoint. Not trying to be insensitive here, but I have been succesful at avoiding unwanted pregnancy for almost all my life by being responsible and I don't believe in modern day immaculate conception.

I like you imene2, but too many young single mothers claim no responsibility. control or knowledge of their own reproduction abilities.
 Sapphireeyes
Joined: 1/13/2008
Msg: 74
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 1:27:23 PM
When I was about to give birth to my third child, who had a very rare birth defect, the lady I worked for told me she was firing me cause I chose to give birth to a baby with a defect and that in her opinion that was horrible...she then went on to say how much she would have loved to have a child, in fact she said she would have given her right tit...which must have cost her quite a bit.

I knew right at that moment why god had blessed me with the most precious child in the world. I also knew why she was childless. My baby lived 45 minutes, to anyone who had the opportunity to be involved it was priceless, the way she fought for 9 months to have the chance to meet her family and share those few minutes. I learned so much from her in that short time period. The value of a minute with someone you love, the value of fighting and not giving up when I was sick with cancer etc.

Lack of kids in someone life can have many meanings but unless you are that person no one has the right to judge...yes kids do change your life but not everyone is the same. I cant imagine not having had the opportunity to be a mother but I respect someone who knows that it isnt a good choice for them.

I read online about interviews the DCS had with expecting mothers, about who the father was...one woman said she was drunk and being sick out a window and the man came up from behind, lifted her skirt and she never saw his face but it was the best sex she had ever had and if they found out who he was could she please have his number.
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 75
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Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 1:42:20 PM
There are probably some others around who were taugh by dating several people who had children, that dating people with children is a bad idea. After the Ex dramas, kid dramas, and the Daddy dramas with multiple people I walked away from that scene and never looked back.
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