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 MarvaJanuice
Joined: 6/3/2008
Msg: 63
Lack of KidsPage 4 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Do you know that even my work life is violated by this thought of childlessness.

Many times I had to work the holidays because "afterall, Marva, Christmas and Thanksgiving are for children..I didnt think youd mind seeing you dont have a family."

Dont have a family? I have a family. I have Dad, brothers and aunts and uncles...cousins, neices, nephews...Wouldnt mind?...
One of my coworkers has 2 kids and husband. Her mom lives half a block away which she sees daily as she picks up the kids after school. She actually said to me "But Marva, I wanna spend time with my kids and mom." when I wouldnt change holidays the ONE year I got Christmas off. I thought you selfish b*tch. I get ONE Christmas to go to the mountains to spend with my family and get to see them ONE time that year..in a YEAR!...and you want me to change it? You see your freakin kids every day and tuck them in bed every night. You see your mom every day. You will open presents with them after work and spend all year with them..ALL YEAR.
And I am the one being selfish? I'M the one that doesnt understand the concept of priorities?
 FriendlyFreeSpirit
Joined: 7/27/2009
Msg: 64
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/16/2009 4:47:37 PM
^^No, absolutely not. You're not being selfish wanting to spend Christmas with your family, whether they include your children or not. Many parents DO see their lives as somehow more a priority than childless peers.
But I agree with rearguard. Who I was pre-child and who I am now - two different people. I know what it's like to be a single adult. I didn't give birth until I was 38. And it's a different world to that of a parent, a different headspace, different experiences.
 DivineBovine
Joined: 5/13/2005
Msg: 65
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Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/16/2009 5:38:05 PM

my impression of the lifestyle and habits of those friends of mine who are in that situation is that they would probably have a bit of a time relating to someone who has raised a family.


this doesn't make sense to me...

most of us grow up in families and have some idea of how they work. i can relate to my family members who have children just as well as i relate to those who don't have them.
 Dancing_4_You
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 66
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Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/17/2009 2:53:38 AM
i decide to adopt at age five. it took me 45 years. maybe you should date older women!

seriously, if you undertand not wanting them or not being able to have them, what is left that disturbs you so? i find your OP confusing. what if they had kids and beat them? would that be more amenable? what if they worked all day long with kids or even the elderly? maybe you should get the whole story, before you make judgements about people's character and ability to nurture and love. it takes work meeting the right person and too many rash judgements will only hurt your own chances at meeting a really good person--with or w/o kids!

krebby: as to your comment re adopting kids of color. my kids are african american and peruvian. nobody stopped us, but i was raised in an african american culture back east and had already mentored african american children within the african american community and with their blessings. plus, few were adopting pre teens. my ex also took in south american kids during medical stays in the states (mostly done by his first wife). i made sure my kids had the influence of both cultures and believe me, we covered a lot of territory in that realm. the reason many african americans balk, is that many "cute african american babies" were adopted into all white families way back-- and they went through hell when they were raised in all white neighborhoods and left out/teased in the teen years. also there is often a political divide amongst the older social workers of african american and latino descent. i had to fight that one tooth and nail. but my kids were old enough to speak out and their birth mother supported me from afar. i made sure to live in a culturally mixed area until my little one was around 17. we moved here to the shore, where it is way too white. it bothers me more than her, but we liked the geography. now my eldest and her mate, have moved here by choice. time to more fully integrate this neighborhood! there are a few racists here and there, but for the most part they are happy. my son also likes to come down and visit. maybe he will eventually move here too. hmph. to think at age 40, some dude passed "me" by for this reason!!!!

re single versus parental: i worked with kids so, for me, the real eye opener was the 24 / and the fact that kids were not as "nice" to moms as they were to mentors! i did find with my childless ex SO that he always took the viewpoint of the child and not the parent!!! not sure that would apply to all people w/o children.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 67
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/17/2009 6:01:09 AM
My mother told me she would kill me if I ever came home pregnant.

I never met a man who I knew was going to stay around long enough and too many women have been stuck with the task of raising children alone. My mother was one and growing up without a father and being the last of 5 kids really stuck in my mind that I didn't just want to be another statistic. I would never bring a life into this world without a loving husband to be a father to a child. I don't believe in having children out of wedlock and the men that I've dated throughout the years were not interested in marriage. I'm not one to enforce rules on men.

Having a happy and healthy sex life like I have always enjoyed is not possible with children around 24/7 either. I find dating single fathers to be awkward and difficult. I feel I'm being thrust into an instant family and there is no intimacy of any kind with his children around. Just last week a newly divorced single dad insisted that I come over for dinner, with the hot tub afterwards, and wanted me to spend the night- on a first date - with his 9 year old DAUGHTER in the house. When I insisted on meeting in a public place when he didn't have his daughter I didn't hear from him again. Disgusting and creepy to me.


There is a lot of freedom that women have to give up to be a mother, and god bless em for wanting to do that. I guess I'm selfish? No - I'm a realist. I think before people take on parenthood they are not relatistic and I often hear them saying "I didn't know it was going to be so hard".

Secondary to that I've always had an inexplicable fear of pregnancy and childbirth.
There are plenty of women having babies all the time, so the population will deplete anytime soon because of me.
I have NEVER met any man in my life whose main goal was to get married and have children. It seems that many marriages have broken up after adding children because it complicates life in general quite a bit more. More responsilibty=more stress. I really cherish my alone time and freedom - mothers do not have that. It seems that most mothers lives are chaos to me and they have no energy and love left over for a man.


I work with children everyday, and because I am not a parent, they see me as more of an ally. I love children and think a happy healthy childhood is SO crucial - something I was denied. There are so many people having kids and abusing them, it really breaks my heart, and I wonder why such people would have them. When people have children for their own selfish reasons or because of their own carelessness it's tragic.
I think far too many women are having children because of social pressure or to validate their womanhood. God forbid they should become the eccentric spinster with cats

Little do they know after divorces and the kids are all grown and moved out, they're in the same situation anyways.
Not having children is NOT a red flag sweetie, having more than 3 children all with different baby daddies is a red flag my dear.
 Blues1963
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 68
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/17/2009 4:53:38 PM
They're having problems in Germany with a rapidly aging population. The reason is they're so well eductaed, and many highly educated people choose not to have children unless the circumstances are ideal.

No kids? I see that as a sign of an intelligent, concientious woman who probably isn't too deeply indoctrinated by a church. Yes, It could be fertility issues and other things, but I quite often find the former to be true.

Just for the record, I love kids and don't mind dating women that have them. I just never had any of my own because I thought a good wife was a pre-requisite. AT 46, I've pretty much decided there's already enough of them in the world without me contributing.
 *mae* flowers
Joined: 1/15/2006
Msg: 69
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 10:21:13 AM
I have my own biological child, 11 going on 12, and she is, well, a "chick magnet." She's not a liability, she's a magnet. I know that I'm biased, but when my Claudie is around, and women see me without a ring, they start noticing more. They want to be a mommy, even if the child is not theirs biologically.
When I was single, I spent 6 months getting to know a kid through a sponsored project. He was living in a foster home and I simply fell in love with him, so I went through another few months of filling out paperwork to adopt him. He was African American and I was not. A few days before the adoption went through, a well known African American group halted the adoption because my little boy would not be brought up in that "culture." It was OK for him to be in sterile foster home, but not OK for him to be brought up in a home that loved him, regardless of whether we were not of the same race. I fought to keep him for many months after, to no avail. Those were simply the darkest period of my life because I loved him deeply.


I can imagine how you must have felt... I feel bad for you Krebby. It doesn't take long for an attachment to form .
Although I have three bioligical children of my own I am also a foster parent both overseas and at home and have been since 1999. It's hearbreaking to see the number of children that have somehow fallen through the cracks. And to be denied a good home....that's a shame, a real shame.
I am currently in the process of adopting my 14 year old foster child who has been with me since December of 2006. She is of mixed race. Japanese, Spanish and Cree (like me) and she has such a big personality...everyone loves her.
It seems to be taking forever though, so much red tape. I'm just waiting on a court date and have been for months. It would be a fantastic Christmas present for us all if this goes through by December. We're all keeping our fingers crossed. And then let the celebrations begin...a proper welcome into the family.

Again...so sorry how that turned out Krebby.


You have my greatest respect.

...maeflowers
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 70
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 11:22:26 AM
Some things, like the life of a child shouldn't be gambled,,,

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!

Many of us who have chosen not to have children on a whim, truly realize how precious and significant a life is and don't take it lightly.
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 71
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Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 12:09:55 PM
Not having children is simply a choice,it is better to realize that you are not cut out to be a parent than it is to be one and do a lousy job of it.I have respect for anyone who knows themself well enough to not follow a path they know is not right for them..and in this case often have their chracter questioned for it.
 slumpy
Joined: 9/21/2009
Msg: 72
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 12:22:22 PM
New world order... mass media and politics being shoved down everyone's throat. New expectations from media stating women's equality, go back to school, etc.

Fifteen pieces of mail with fine print that people spend time reading. Mass electronic communications, electronic gadgets that communicate, etc.

Gay marriage, civil union pushing, etc.

Not like it was in the fiftees... there is not the respect of family like there was back then.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 73
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 1:13:59 PM

Not always!!! Why do people automatically make this assumption? Is everyone really that limited?


People don't become parents at gunpoint. Not trying to be insensitive here, but I have been succesful at avoiding unwanted pregnancy for almost all my life by being responsible and I don't believe in modern day immaculate conception.

I like you imene2, but too many young single mothers claim no responsibility. control or knowledge of their own reproduction abilities.
 Sapphireeyes
Joined: 1/13/2008
Msg: 74
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 1:27:23 PM
When I was about to give birth to my third child, who had a very rare birth defect, the lady I worked for told me she was firing me cause I chose to give birth to a baby with a defect and that in her opinion that was horrible...she then went on to say how much she would have loved to have a child, in fact she said she would have given her right tit...which must have cost her quite a bit.

I knew right at that moment why god had blessed me with the most precious child in the world. I also knew why she was childless. My baby lived 45 minutes, to anyone who had the opportunity to be involved it was priceless, the way she fought for 9 months to have the chance to meet her family and share those few minutes. I learned so much from her in that short time period. The value of a minute with someone you love, the value of fighting and not giving up when I was sick with cancer etc.

Lack of kids in someone life can have many meanings but unless you are that person no one has the right to judge...yes kids do change your life but not everyone is the same. I cant imagine not having had the opportunity to be a mother but I respect someone who knows that it isnt a good choice for them.

I read online about interviews the DCS had with expecting mothers, about who the father was...one woman said she was drunk and being sick out a window and the man came up from behind, lifted her skirt and she never saw his face but it was the best sex she had ever had and if they found out who he was could she please have his number.
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 75
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Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 1:42:20 PM
There are probably some others around who were taugh by dating several people who had children, that dating people with children is a bad idea. After the Ex dramas, kid dramas, and the Daddy dramas with multiple people I walked away from that scene and never looked back.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 76
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 1:54:42 PM
Iemene - I thought you were referring to women who have numerous accidental pregnancies. Of someone that truly knows they want children and has not been able to have any is not a choice. I apologize.
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 77
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Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 3:57:52 PM
Ismene...it is a choice to those who can but choose not to,as far as i know i am capable of producing offspring..i "limited" myself
 Savona
Joined: 7/14/2009
Msg: 78
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 5:46:23 PM


Where are they?
Point em out!
Be quite the prize....
less baggage.


Wondering how a new granddaddy can say that women without kids have less baggage. I don't think I ever considered kids baggage.

Me ... my kids are grown and I don't date men with younger kids. That is just a lifestyle choice. But man oh man I have sure met allot of men who have never been married or LTR ... now those men have baggage .... commitment baggage.

S
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 79
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 6:38:16 PM
I really resent the OP even insinuating that older women who have not had children should be viewed as some kind of modern day scarlet letter. To ALL of us who haven't had children, for whatever reason, why should we feel we even have to explain ourselves? It has absolutely nothing to do with the ability to be a loving partner. Now Iemene has made me MUCH more aware that this is a very painful subject for some women who wanted to be a mother. My heart goes out to them.
 Sapphireeyes
Joined: 1/13/2008
Msg: 80
Lack of Kids
Posted: 10/18/2009 10:37:31 PM
Ismene,

That is why it is important for individuals to be open minded enough to find out why someone doesnt have children vs judging them as being this or that..

I truly feel that children are a blessing from god but I do not feel not being able to have them is a punishment. I know my daughter was a blessing even if she only lived 45 minutes it was worth carrying her 9 months to be able to hold her.

I have a good friend who wasnt able to have children who adopted and went thru hell in that process but it was what she wanted so badly that she was willing to go there to have a child in her life and she has never looked back.

One of the friend of my kid's friends has 5 kids with 4 different mothers, he is 27 years old, on probation for the next five years and currently has no jobs and wanted me to buy his uncle's food stamps last week. He admits he has no business being a father and it was never cause he wanted kids he just hates using condoms.

Anyone who says life is fair is sadly mistaken, it isnt fair but it is our life and what we make out of it. I doubt a child could have a better mother than what you would be Ismeme.
 BlueEyes1712
Joined: 4/24/2008
Msg: 81
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Lack of Kids
Posted: 11/12/2009 7:26:06 AM
It can be seen as two ways, some women might not list children or may say, doesnt want to say, because they know a lot of men arent intrested in taking on a women with little time to spare. But some are up front about the kids and yes it is more difficult to fit into the lives of someone still raising thier kids. Some may not have kids at home cause there away at college or grown up and adults now, so no kids are at home.
 Sapphireeyes
Joined: 1/13/2008
Msg: 82
Lack of Kids
Posted: 11/12/2009 7:56:12 AM
Some are smart enough to realize that listing kids is a good way to attract pedophiles who prey on insecure women.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 83
Lack of Kids
Posted: 11/12/2009 10:51:00 AM

One of the friend of my kid's friends has 5 kids with 4 different mothers, he is 27 years old, on probation for the next five years and currently has no jobs and wanted me to buy his uncle's food stamps last week. He admits he has no business being a father and it was never cause he wanted kids he just hates using condoms.


It just angers me that the world is filled with morons like this. Why doesn't he just get himself neutered? That is the type of person that has such low regard for human life.
 luckyfiddle
Joined: 5/31/2009
Msg: 84
Lack of Kids
Posted: 11/13/2009 6:39:13 PM
Making incorrect assumptions on why a woman doesn't have kids is a red flag on you. I love kids. My life just didn't work out that way. Do you know how hard it is to see women with children that aren't fit to have them? So next time before making assumptions, ask questions. You might just find the reasons will give you more respect for that person versus red flags.
 ERP_1961
Joined: 8/14/2009
Msg: 85
Lack of Kids
Posted: 11/14/2009 10:01:32 AM
People tend to be cavalier/dismissive, off-hand, etc., when it comes to people who have been unable to have children. It is, without doubt, one of the most painful experiences of my life.


Not having children is not limited by career choices, or not being with the "One" or other "selfish" reasons. I do wish people would stop looking for red flags where there are none and show a little compassion for women that have other reasons for not having children. It is very cruel and thoughtless. I have not one, but two friends that can not have children due to health reasons. Do you think almost losing your life and the ability to have kids in a car accident caused by a drunk driver is a red flag? Or having a mother that took DES under doctor's orders when she was pregnant with you, not knowing the long term effects?

Be serious people. Sounds like the OP is looking for justification for his boorish comments.
 Brownlady1953
Joined: 12/12/2008
Msg: 86
Lack of Kids
Posted: 12/1/2009 6:39:39 AM
Nextdoormotsie, I have a few friends like that (ranging in age from 40's to 60's), who wanted the children, bu it never happened for the reasons that you articulated. And the saddest thing of all is that these women would have made EXCELLENT mothers.....a lot better than some of the "mothers" I see now.....
 wacowboy3
Joined: 6/26/2008
Msg: 87
Lack of Kids
Posted: 12/1/2009 4:15:27 PM
Well crap it wouldnt let me edit my above post. I dont have anything against kids, I like kids. But I would prefer to find a woman thats kids are raised, or never had any. I would love to have a realtionship now that we have time to devote to one without haveing to attend numerouse kids ball games, school recitals etc Women you dont have kids are not a red flag to me. There has to be a good reason they dont have any.
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