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 AUTHOR
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 32
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?Page 5 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
No one can hurt your feelings but yourself. Other people may say hurtful remarks. But you control your reactions. If you truly love yourself unconditionally. You already accept who you are and know all your shortcomings. You already done the self examination and be peace with yourself. There is no one can hurt your feeling.

While I agree on some levels, I disagree on the intimate level. As I see it, when you make yourself vulnerable to another person (and therefore achieve intimacy), you sort of ARE giving them permission to hurt you. You have opened yourself up to them SO MUCH, and you are saying to them, "Here I am, laid bare. I am trusting you not to hurt me."
==========
Ah, Division, we meet again.

I think it's funny how women expect men to cater to their emotional whims, when that's not really how men are wired.

I think it's funny how men expect women to ignore their emotions, when that's not really how women are wired.

And JUST by saying they are "whims", you denigrated every woman's emotions. The Men's Club salutes you!
 Arabianangel
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 33
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/8/2009 2:08:26 PM

Masculine men typically aren't emotional creatures.........never have been.


I don't know about that, I'm only attracted to the 'masculine type' and I can assure you they're the ONLY ones I date....In my experience they are far more emotional than the average bloke, the masculinity shell is just a facade they've erected themselves in fear of getting hurt. I’ve seen masculine men fall to their knees.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 34
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/8/2009 2:24:09 PM
I think I understand, you are saying you accept your "secret" and have come to peace with it, so telling it gives no other person power (I'm going to have to look up if you are male or female). I don't agree that anyone ever reaches nirvana, or perfect zen, or whatever you want to call this.

To me, being intimate isn't in *accepting* one's flaws, it's in *showing* them (the being vulnerable part). And hoping and trusting that the person you are sharing everything with is willing to accept you (authentic you)--despite your flaws. they love YOU, not your social self, but your authentic self.

The difference is I hear you saying that you can get to a point where you don't care what other people think of you because you've accepted, and are at peace with, who you are, flaws and all. I see THAT as a barricade to intimacy. If you don't care what I feel, why bother to be with me?
 Arabianangel
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 35
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/8/2009 3:20:41 PM

When they are really attracted to and engaged by someone, when I'm getting more intimately close to someone, I certainly become more sensitive and vulnerable. I don't know how anyone could not feel such an "intimate risk" in the process of drawing someone close inside you who appeals so deeply to your heart?


I think it's beautiful to be able to just let go and really feel, that's the risk of love....I would rather love wholeheartedly and experience love for all of what it is, then to selectively choose what my logical mind deems as safe.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 36
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What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/8/2009 3:52:55 PM
I'm behind in this conversation, and I'm picking it up at the end (sorry Hearttune, then again, rune's reply was wonderful *grins*).

4Forums, I truly get what you are saying. Indeed, as I move through my life I have learned that the more I own my less than wonderful bits, and am willing to be a f*up in the ways I am, everything gets easier, simpler and flows freely. People respond in real life to real emotion. Far from the ground opening up and swallowing you, they embrace your humanity. Gosh, who knew? Still.

I'm not so evolved that I don't have my insecurities. The level of insecurity is inverse to the amount I feel is "at stake". With a less important connection, pfft, I am the bravest and most secure and evolved person on the face of the planet. And this secure, evolved person can revert to feeling four years old in :30 seconds under the withering eye of my much older sister. *whew*

So, I ask myself. What is it that has us be our most evolved selves with a new person? Safety. "I feel safe with you"

Safe to tell them the squeamish bits about myself. Safe to be less than perfect. Safe to be vulnerable.

What creates safety? Acceptance does. Non judgement does. Being open to explore your thoughts does.

We don't meet someone and do a dump of who we are, we slowly reveal in the fullness of time.

edit to add:

Now I'm 50, sitting here plinking, wondering what the hell happened, and where in the hell did it leave me? LOL

Ahhh, try a different question, perhaps. "Where do you want to play today?"

And then. Miracle of miracles, do what NONE of us ever seem to do. Take it to the next step and actually answer your own question!
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 37
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/8/2009 8:27:45 PM
Instead of railing and wailing about how unfair the OP is, why don't you without rancor give your perspective, Bwana? Give us insights instead of attack the OP?

If I may use your jar analogy:
You have a jar labelled BULLSHYTE.
You like to pull it out, stick your fingers in there, and spread it around. But the thing about it is, all it does is stink the place up and cover every thing with a thick layer of crap.


and men's perspectives must be ruled out of any discussion before it's started.

Where did she invalidate any man's perspective?


Sex is interconnected with everything.

This I agree with. But how can I? I'm a woman?!
 Sweetlilmeee
Joined: 6/24/2007
Msg: 38
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/8/2009 8:39:22 PM
Respect. I was raised to respect my elders and I could never be with someone I don't respect and who doesn't respect me. To me it means someone we honor and recognize as equal to ourselves and it gives the relationship a more solid feeling. You would be less likely to mistreat someone that you respect.

Honesty/Truth. I have been lied to before, all of us has, and I don't like it. to me a relationship should encourage the participants to be as honest as they can with each other. It helps you trust one another.

Trust. If you believe your partner to be truthful and that they care about you and wouldn't want to harm you, you have to Trust them with this belief. You have to trust that they will be there for you. And trust their integrity. I would not date someone I didn't trust.

Communication. There is no relationship without communication.

Cooperation. A relationship is about two people together, not one person or another. It has to be about Both parties.

Basically these fundamentals for me tie in together to create the basis of a relationship.

Because these set the path for emotional and mental intimacy to be shared, and once both of you create a past of sharing it will be easier to do more of it in the future.
 The1Artist
Joined: 8/13/2009
Msg: 39
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/8/2009 9:58:17 PM
Instead of asking “What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy”, you should be asking “What causes an unstable relationship?” This is a simple answer. I can trace every relationship that I have heard about, or witnessed, or experienced myself that caused a separation, to one single problem.

Insecurity of oneself.

Trust – How can you trust someone if you can’t trust yourself, not secure in your own decisions - insecurity
Honesty – You will not tell the truth if you feel the need to lie about what you are - insecurity
Communication – This is the same as Honesty, lying to create a false sense of oneself - insecurity
Respect – You can’t respect someone else if you don’t respect yourself – insecurity
Friendship – You can’t be a friend if you think you have nothing to offer – insecurity
Patience – You can not see the value in patience, if you do not think you are worth a good outcome - insecurity
Humility – You can not be humble if you think you are worthless - insecurity
Great sex – You will not perform well if you think you are worthless - insecurity
Hard work – You will not work hard if you think you are worthless - insecurity
Loyalty – You will not think loyalty is possible if you can not trust yourself - insecurity
Dependability – You will not think someone is dependable if you can not trust yourself - insecurity
Consideration – You will not be considerate if you think you are not worth someone’s consideration - insecurity
Responsibility towards self / one another – You will think you are not worth the effort to be responsible – insecurity

See the behavioural pattern here. As long as you are insecure about yourself, any relationship is doomed unless you reject your insecurity, accept your strengths, and minimize your faults. Example, I will never be a professional Basketball star, a person of that type of fame, wealth, and power, but that does not stop me from being secure in my abilities to be a good companion. You can not build an emotional bridge if there is too much insecurity wearing away the base of the bridge. It will collapse.

Thank you – The Artist
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 40
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What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/9/2009 7:09:54 AM
Well, a focus on "what's wrong" without blame is a way to effectively get to mutually satisfying agreements, isn't it?

I suspect part of the underpinnings for why the identification of "what's wrong?" goes awry is many people don't know themselves well enough to know what is wrong. (We keep coming back to "know thyself", don't we?). Often, "what's wrong" isn't so much what the other person said/did (or didn't say/do) but how we *feel* about it or how it effects our interior landscape.

If you can't say 'what's wrong' clearly, why not? Being clear about these things is what builds intimacy. If it is lack of trust in the other person to hear you, that's one problem. If it is lack of personal clarity or potential conflict avoidance, that's different problems.

Another part is poor communication. Can one say clearly 'what's wrong' without casting blame on the other person?

edit to add: Rather than 'what's missing or wrong?' I use "something happened" because it is without judgement... a useful trick to keep myself focused and on point.
 dlb47
Joined: 2/19/2009
Msg: 41
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/9/2009 12:57:33 PM

I don't think you can or should BUILD intimacy: I think it's a natural thing that grows out of interaction & relating.

Which requires time, patience and a non-judgemental attitude.


Instead of thinking of trying to build a natural thing like intimacy, think how you can create optimal conditions for it to grow.

Willingness to share your thoughts, willingness to give of your time, willingness to share in their interests


To know someone, you have to be not just interested in discovering the other person but open to learning about them rather than measuring them constantly against a scale of what you want them to be

Again patience and non-judgemental attitude..plus having good listening skills

These are all qualities we need to look inside ourselves to see if we possess or are at least willing to work on..by ourself...before intimacy can be achieved with another.
 TopChuck
Joined: 1/19/2008
Msg: 42
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What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/9/2009 1:01:34 PM

I think it's funny how women expect men to cater to their emotional whims, when that's not really how men are wired.


Actually, understanding a woman's emotional whims, can be used by loving men to establish emotional and mental intimacy.

It doesn't violate a man's wiring, if he does this using his logical talents.

It reinforces her 'wiring' to allow her to reside in her emotional mind.

It's the exchange of understanding for trusting that is at the core of emotional and mental intimacy.

But it requires that each fills the proper role, as seems*normal*'s comment implies.

.
 funksoulbrutha
Joined: 1/3/2009
Msg: 43
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What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/9/2009 1:35:27 PM
According to the last 14 women I dated, I'M a fundamental tool.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 44
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What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/9/2009 2:06:11 PM
Reaching back to the bit Hearttune said way back on page 2, about not sharing certain parts of himself because people wouldn't likely get it. Two thoughts, at least I think it'll be two, as I begin to think outloud, lol.

One is the thought that if one chooses not to reveal something there is no possibility for the outcome to ever be any different. Doesn't it, in a way, rob yourself and the other of the possibility of life working out a different way?

And the second thought is - does it matter if they don't get something about you absolutely? Or is it a critical area?

It strikes me that there might be some parts of us that might be inaccessible to another one person. That's sort of in line with the theory that one has several people in one's life because each of them scratches a different itch. (No, I'm not going all poly on you - just thinking there's the friend one has a laugh with and the other friend one calls when there's a problem... that sort of thing). I'm not so certain we need to understand, in great depth, all of the inner workings of the other. Especially if they have some esoteric interests.

Sometimes, perhaps, it is enough that they know it exists in us and understand it is important to us and give us space to scratch that itch. Maybe if they value that space we need, because it sustains us even tho' they can't "get it", it is enough.
 Arabianangel
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 45
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/9/2009 4:26:50 PM

Now, of course, I'm alone again after my trip along the world's longest learning curve. What's different now, however, is that I no longer feel compelled to find what I'm looking for in myself "out there", in some other place out there, in something I do out there, in some person I meet out there. In other words, I'm the same idiot about relationships that I always was. I just know the idiot that I am a whole lot better, though I haven't a fvcking clue about how to play the game anymore.


I don't think you're alone in this one Heartune...My observation is the more we really know ourselves the harder it is to find that connection with another... anyone can have a relationship...it's not rocket science, however not everyone can have a true relationship with themselves. You've managed to conquer one of the hardest things in life, you know who you are...not many people can claim that.
 Arabianangel
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 46
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/9/2009 4:39:55 PM

What if everyone you know will always be a capable of surprising you?


What if we ACCEPTED that everyone we know is capable of surprising us, would we ever be disapointed?
 Bonita fish
Joined: 8/22/2007
Msg: 47
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What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/9/2009 11:19:55 PM
There is a great book called "If Buddha Dated" and it has a list of events that assure that you are on the right path before sex. One item on the list is: have you had at least one big disagreement and came to a resolution.. I think that one item in itself is thought provoking. It shows that you have a certain level of respect for one another, that you can openly communicate, that there is a certain level of committment etc, etc.
 JKEYS
Joined: 3/22/2006
Msg: 49
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What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/11/2009 3:23:41 PM
BULITT10 - I AGREE WITH YOU 100% AS PER THE MOST IMPORTANT ITEMS THAT MUST BE ESTABLISHED FOR AN INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP.

hOWEVER, i'M NOT SURE THAT I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU 'MEAN' WHEN YOU MENTIONED "HARD WORK" AS - ONE OF THE NECESSARY ITEMS.
I ASSUME YOU MEANT : hARD WORK WITH THE RELATIONSHIP
 DeepLuv09
Joined: 7/24/2009
Msg: 50
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/11/2009 3:43:20 PM
For me intimacy is something you shouldn't even have to work on, that is if you are self-aware.

You can simply tell the level of intimacy by BEING in the presence of another. Intimacy is when you are sitting next to them/in the same room and you feel "connected" even when they have told you NOTHING about themselves. Its more to do with them being open to you, trusting you and being comfortable in your space. Have you ever had that "6th sense" that you are not connecting? Well it is usually right. At least for me when you are in the presence of another, you can "feel" the connection just by the level of comfort in the room. Sometimes you can be sleeping next to your man/woman but you can't relax because there is this invisible glass separating you? If you ask them if everything is okay they will tell you yes but you just feel that its not okay lol. It could be that I am just more attuned but I judge intimacy from unspoken signals mostly even when the relationship is relatively new.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 51
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/11/2009 4:53:59 PM
Tools don't build emotional or mental intimacy - that's why they're called tools.
 m14shooter
Joined: 10/2/2009
Msg: 55
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What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/19/2009 3:40:50 PM
What builds it for me is this.
Doing things for each other, I try to make her life easier as I have a easy work schedule.
Be yourself.
Don't be controlling.
Being open and honest.
Being positive.
Letting her into my heart.
Sharing our fears and feelings.
Being a gentleman.
Asking her what matters to her.
Think of her and let her know it.
Touch her and ask her if that works or if she likes something else better.
Put her first.
Don't smother her and give her some space.
Compliment her even if she is in sweats.
Think before you open your mouth.
Listen to her vent and don't add your bad day to it either, let it be about her save your venting for another day.
Talk to her.
If she has kids treat them with even more respect than you do to her and she will notice it.
If she has kids ask her to include them after a few weeks and make them feel a part and MEAN IT. No worse feeling to know that the man wants what mommy has and you are just baggage to getting what he wants. If you are like this date childless women.
When sex comes up put the decision in her hands and let her know that you want it to be her decision and that you are there for all of her and not just in the bedroom.
Have a open sexual discussion early on so you know when it gets to that point you both will be getting what you enjoy.
Discuss honestly your sex drive because if you don't match neither will be happy and don't lie either.
If you are into porn put it aside and if your are let her know as you may have issues with someone else touching you especially if you have been along for a long time.

This is pretty much it for me and how I approach things.
 dlb47
Joined: 2/19/2009
Msg: 56
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/24/2009 5:55:00 PM

One poster said – early on in a relationship he tends to try to impress - isn't totally honest and after a while - ‘i start to resent the fact that i can't really be myself and things go downhill from there.'
I've often heard the expression 'she makes me a better man' - isn't that a good thing? Why would you resent being the person they want? But it definitely proves the point, you have to be honest, even with yourself.


I think he was explaining how important it is, from the very beginning in a relationship, to be true to yourself. He said he was trying to "impress"...meaning he was sacrificing who he truly was...for the sake of the new relationship.
He doesn't say how he was doing that..maybe doing the things she enjoyed and he really didn't or not speaking up on topics that were important to him so he wouldn't rock the boat. But all the same, he was denying himself from being himself around the new relationship..After awhile that can start becoming very uncomfortable. After he realized what he had done the resentment set in. Resentment more probably towards himself because he didn't speak up earlier in the relationship. So the other person in the relationship thought she was getting a certain person...but not really...because he realized that is not who he was...he had not taken the time to share who he really was. Or maybe resentment set in on her part because he finally did try to express who he was and she resented him. He didn't explain where the resentment was coming from.

I think this is one tool that is important. Be true to yourself as you develop the relationship.
 MyFunIsAnArtForm
Joined: 7/29/2007
Msg: 57
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 10/24/2009 9:31:29 PM
Is there a reason why common sense isn't practiced in this area?
 CynthiaSM
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 58
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 12/2/2012 6:13:54 PM

Maybe instead of asking how to have a good relationship, you could ask, what is a good relationship to you? No judgments, no outside interference, no social pressure, no clap trap pop psychology books, just what it means to you and keep asking until it becomes your idea, not someone else’s. Intimacy (in to me I see) is done first in solitude, it doesn’t need another persons validation. No one can give you intimacy, all you can do is share it, you can’t give it away and it can’t be taken from you, it’s who you are to the core, and if you can’t find it, the never ending chase for something else to fill it continues.

When you can say who you are openly, be totally exposed in front of another without fear of rejection, with no possessive motive or waiting for someone else to validate you, then two people can start having a true relationship, one where both people continue to become a couple. True intimacy shared is two people who can hold there own, open and raw who don’t collapse because another disagrees and continually ask one another with empathy. When you say,”yeah but” your not listening.

+1
Emphasis on both people need to have done their own intimacy work, first, before trying it on as a couple.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 59
What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 12/4/2012 10:47:26 PM
Iconoclast- The basis for intimacy is the ability to recognize the other person is an individual with feelings.
Mutual respect is key.
Two people come together with a lifetime of individual experiences that make you each unique and special.
You won't always agree, but you can disagree with dignity.
People need to know they are heard, respected and cared about.
A rose not tended withers on the vine.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 60
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What Are the Fundamental Tools of Building Emotional and Mental Intimacy?
Posted: 12/4/2012 11:22:30 PM
Walking the walk.
If you do this and your partner does this, trust is established and together you can deal with what life brings you because you KNOW that both are working their best for the same reasons and even if the outcome is unexpected, it'll be O.K.
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