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 AUTHOR
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 254
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Federal health carePage 11 of 46    (6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46)
^^^^^That sounds like Wilson the great progressive, whose presidency was as close as this country's ever come to a fascist dictatorship.

So the USRA cut back passenger service and ordered new rolling stock. (Whether any of that came on line before the war ended, you don't say.) Great. But nothing in your post indicates U.S. railroads were more efficient--however you may describe that--when the government owned them.

People who want the federal government to own and operate even more industries--i.e. socialists--try to justify that on various grounds, but efficiency is very seldom one of them.

I notice you're not able to point to any part of the Constitution that authorizes something like this health care proposal. But then supporters of schemes like Mr. Obama's often seem to have the same disregard for the Constitution as he does.
 213history
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 255
Federal health care
Posted: 3/17/2010 6:26:14 PM
And that is your best at pumping up and then popping off?


I have no idea what it means. I just assumed it was a dance move. If it wasn't, it is now!

:banana:

Its been a while, but I think General Electric and Boeing's parent company (located in Van Nuys) were taken over World War II. Unlike other posters in this thread, I need to be very careful about my "mumbo jumbo" so I will double check my sources before providing other examples. The easiest example of government intervention to make business's more efficient during World War II would be the "Rosie" the Riveter campaign.

Thanks for your input Mr. Heaven, not every business was taken over. Ford was a great example.

/pops collar

pumps up and pops off to the right

John
 213history
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 256
Federal health care
Posted: 3/18/2010 2:47:38 PM
Mr. Husker,

I only mention Wilson’s actions during his presidency as an example when the government can help improve or make industries/ bussiness’s more efficient. I agree with most of the points you have made about Wilson’s presidency. The lesson provided was a great refresher and I appreciate the read.

Thank you for taking the time for that great write up.


<div class="quote"> “If any trait bubbles up in all one reads about Wilson it is this: he loved, craved, and in a sense glorified power,” writes historian Walter McDougall.

How is this different from our other presidents?


<div class="quote"> Wilson sought war with Germany and purposefully drew the US into World War I.

I find this similar to the claim that our president used Pearl Harbor as a reason to Enter World War II and they are even those who believe 911 was an inside job. I simply find this difficult to believe.

There are some facts I would like to add.

Great Britain’s ship industry was subsidized by the government. The Cunard Line accepted loans from the government to build super liners and retain its competitive position, similar to our investment into the automotive industry. British government continued to intervene with Shipping companies, forcing two competitors to merge in 1934, this company was called Cunard-White Star Ltd.

One of the conditions of the loans was the government’s ability to seize the vessels during times of conflict. This clause allowed the company to design military grade engines and propellers . The practice of repainting ships was not the problem or uncommon. (see Queen Mary)

I agree with most of your facts, but you did not mention Wilson’s use of “people as tools” or our countries involvement before entering the war. The Germans were aware that most American passenger ships were carrying supplies under the guise of being non military.

There were several contributing factors to Hitler's rise to power. President's Wilsons influence was insignificant when compared with other factors, such as Hearst's publishing corporation buying stories directly from Hitler.

The League of Nations was not a failure, many historians would credit the League as the first form of the United Nations. Like most first drafts or attempts, they are subject to trial and error. I believe the end result of Wilson's experiment was worthwhile, because we have the UN.

The Patriot Act did harm civil liberties. The Sedition Act was an effort to end “un patriotic” propaganda nor did it force citizens to purchase war bonds. Newspapers during this era were popular and most citizens were dependent on newspaper for information. There was also a time, when newspapers published any “mumbo jumbo” that grabs reader’s attention. In my opinion, the Sedition Act ensured our citizens supported our troops and war effort by not negatively affecting the sales of War bonds. This similar to President's Bush's refusal to allow media coverage of returning caskets. The Patriot Act ensures our citizens are the not the enemies. There is a hug difference between the two Acts.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 257
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History
Federal health care
Posted: 3/18/2010 9:16:32 PM

The Patriot Act did harm civil liberties.


Once again, you don't support your claim with any evidence. I don't see that the Patriot Act did any significant damage to anyone's civil liberties. And which Sedition Act are you referring to? We've had more than one. If you seriously imagine that Wilson infringed Americans' civil liberties less in WWI than Mr. Bush did, you're grossly misinformed.

That doesn't even pass the laugh test--Wilson did a number of things that temporarily made the U.S. into a police state. Most of what's been claimed about the decline in civil liberties under Mr. Bush is a lie. It is so far removed from reality--and so helpful to our Islamic jihadist enemies--that I suspect it was mostly meant to help them.

I suppose you've also bought the lie that the lawyers who volunteered at Gitmo were white knights, charging in to defend the rights of helpless defendants. Except that they weren't defendants. And they had no right to a lawyer. Oh--there's also all the facts that began to come out in Monday's Wall Street Journal about the many criminal and disloyal (if not treasonous) things these lawyers did to help Muslim jihadist war criminals and hinder this country's war against them.

Your statement that the League of Nations was not a failure is just not the fact. You might want to learn about Mussolini's threat to invade Ethiopia in 1935, and how miserably the League discredited itself to the world. It blustered with empty threats and imposed sanctions--all the while being careful to sanction only the things Italy would tolerate. And the one thing it would not--aluminum for airplanes--it let Italy have. And when Mussolini seemed determined, the League (and England, which was leading it) stood back and let his fleet go through. It proved itself as impotent as the UN is now, if less corrupt and hypocritical.
 213history
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 258
Federal health care
Posted: 3/18/2010 10:15:26 PM
Mr. Light,
The USA PATRIOT Act expanded governmental powers to investigate terrorism, and some of these powers are applicable to domestic terrorism.

The definition of domestic terrorism is broad enough to encompass the activities of several prominent activist campaigns and organizations. Greenpeace, Operation Rescue, Vieques Island and WTO protesters and the Environmental Liberation Front have all recently engaged in activities that could subject them to being investigated as engaging in domestic terrorism.

Section 806 of the Act could result in the civil seizure of their assets without a prior hearing, and without them ever being convicted of a crime.
This means any person with the intent and for the purpose of supporting, planning, conducting, or concealing an act of domestic or international terrorism against the United States, citizens or residents of the United States or their property.

Coupled with the fact that the Single-Jurisdiction Search Warrants (Sec. 219), Doesn’t this sound like short cut around our 4th Amendment?

Disclosure of educational records - Sec. 507: This provision of the USA PATRIOT Act requires a judge to issue an order permitting the government to obtain private educational records if the Attorney General or his designee certifies that the records are necessary for investigating domestic or international terrorism.


<div class="quote"> Wilson did a number of things that temporarily made the U.S. into a police state

I do not argue against this, but will credit his leadership for seeing his plan through. I want to reiterate that the Sedition Act of 1919 was an effort to end “un patriotic” propaganda. The reason a police state and Sedition Act existed was because anyone with a printing press were discouraging people from buying war bonds or support the War.


<div class="quote"> I suppose you've also bought the lie that the lawyers who volunteered at Gitmo were white knights, charging in to defend the rights of helpless defendants.

Nope. The lawyers at Gitmo are part of a charade to convince the world we are treating the detainees fairly.


<div class="quote"> It blustered with empty threats and imposed sanctions--all the while being careful to sanction only the things Italy would tolerate.

Wilson’s goals were to: organize a World government and end the entangling Alliances in Europe. Both of which were accomplished. I would also note that there were several messy European wars like, The Crimean War (1853) and the Franco-Prussian War (1897). Both of which involved multi-nation alliances and resulted in new borders.

As stated, the League of Nations was the first of its kind. Did you know the first flight only lasted twelve seconds and traveled 120 feet and was still considered a success?

Today, our UN provides peace keeping forces, effective sanctions (Iran, North Korea), and nuclear inspectors. Yes, President Wilson’s Union league was a success.

Edit: Fun Fact the Crimean War was the first war to be photographed. :)
 DeliveryRN
Joined: 8/26/2007
Msg: 259
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History
Federal health care
Posted: 3/18/2010 10:54:12 PM
I am not in the know enough to enter into the political discussions that have been abundant in this thread. I am however very much in the know about what goes on daily in a large California Hospital, as I have been working as an RN in one for 20 years.
There is so much I could say but I choose to just mention one outrageous burden on the California health care system. Every person who is incarcerated in California has full medical benefits. This is big money for the hospitals. Most of these prisoners have life style acquired chronic diseases and then of course there is the never ending life threatening wounds from prison violence.
When they bring a prisoner to the hospital each one has 2 correctional officers with them at all times. The ERs are full of prisoners and sometimes the ICUs will have a prisoner in every bed. All are given full life support until every form of medical treatment has failed and they die. It is not unusual for one of these patients to be in the ICU for more than 3 months. Now remember, during that time, each one has 2 officers sitting outside or inside their room 24/7 and at least half of that time the officers are being paid over time. They do absolutely nothing but sit unless a healthcare provider is in the patients room, then they get up and stand by the patient. Keep in mind these patients are usually on a ventilator, heavily sedated or in a coma.

There is also a whole floor dedicated for guarded care. When the hospital beds are full the regular folks sometimes spend days in the ER on a gurney. I have seen as many as 6 people on ventilators in the ER because the ICU is full of prisoners. I am only painting half the picture.

For the guy who said "tell me one person who has died from being denied healthcare in the US" I could name many but will just tell you about the one I will never forget. She was 2 years old and sick with a respiratory illness. Her mother took her to the emergency departments at 3 different hospitals. The child should have been admitted but there were no beds available. Had she been admitted and given IV antibiotics and hydration, I would not have had to wrap her in a warm blanket and given her lifeless body to her mother to rock for awhile, before we took her to the morgue. YES people do die in America from lack of healthcare and in case you didn't know it California is the number one state for healthcare shortages. Unless of course, if you happen to be in prison.
 HeyJenny
Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 260
Health care
Posted: 3/18/2010 11:54:11 PM
I am sorry for anyone who needs health care and doesn't get it but again this bill creates way more problems than answers. I just found a new one today.

With the Health Care Reform Bill we realize that health insurance will be mandatory. What I failed to guess at was the fact that in order to buy health insurance ,your vaccinations must be up to date. That means that could include the H1N1 vaccine or any other vaccine they decide to poison us with.

If I don't have health insurance I will be fined at least, does that include something worse like internment? It could.

There is a short video on it ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXo4oRY47ME

I have already posted other reasons, one of the other main concerns is having a National Health Care card tied to your bank account where you pay on site electronically. What will happen to those people who don't have enough money in their accounts to pay right then and there. Does anyone really think that they will be treated at all or at least treated the same as those will fat accounts?

The future already is glum enough as it is ,if this passes this country is going to the
 213history
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 261
Health care
Posted: 3/19/2010 12:08:24 AM
one of the other main concerns is having a National Health Care card tied to your bank account where you pay on site electronically. What will happen to those people who don't have enough money in their accounts to pay right then and there. Does anyone really think that they will be treated at all or at least treated the same as those will fat accounts?


Hey Jen,

This claim was also brought up on Paul's laundry list of complaints against the bill.

After some research, the proposed National Health Care card assigned to you will be tied to a bank account. Think of it as another ATM card from another account. The National Health Care card is not linked to any of your personal accounts. It is an account assigned to you strictly for the use of Health Care. From what I read, it will work like the cards issued for Food stamps and General Assistance. There will be no way of withdrawing or depositing credits from your assigned National Health Care card. I'm willing to bet there will be no way to view available balance either.

Hope that clears some of your concerns

John
 DeliveryRN
Joined: 8/26/2007
Msg: 262
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History
Health care
Posted: 3/19/2010 12:12:14 AM
The AMA pleaded to for litigation reform but of course were denied. Why, because the country is run by lawyers.
Oh if people had any clue as to what is really going on, no one would sleep at night. With that said I will go to sleep as I have 12.5 hours to nurse the sick tomorrow.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 263
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History
Federal health care
Posted: 3/19/2010 12:26:55 AM

The lawyers at Gitmo are part of a charade to convince the world we are treating the detainees fairly.


Oh, really? I'd say the charade is yours. Once again, I see you're good at sneaking in assertions, but then running away rather than trying to defend them. I don't take people who do that seriously, and I don't see why anyone else should. It's painfully obvious you know nothing about any of this--let alone the documented findings I referred to earlier about criminal and treasonous conduct by these lawyers.

These lawyers in the Gitmo bar showed photos of CIA field agents to Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the man who masterminded the 9/11 mass murders; gave detainees classified information about the layout of the camp; incited them to a hunger strike; gave them color propaganda brochures that condemned the U.S. and told them how to make up false complaints of mistreatment; and did another dozen things that are just as despicable.

These actions were not only violations of agreements these lawyers had signed, but also clear felony violations of several federal laws. Lynne Stewart, another radical lawyer, was convicted and sentenced years ago for passing communications from her imprisoned client, the "Blind Sheikh," to Muslim jihadists across the world. These were orders for terrorist attacks which killed innocent people.

I've studied the facts and legal issues about the Islamic jihad against America in depth for several years. I've noticed that as a rule, the less someone knows about that subject, the more they tend to denounce this country. Your laughably ignorant assertion convinces me that rule is right. It does its little bit to slight the U.S., and to support the Muslim jihadists it's at war with--savages who would love to see all of us killed in the most agonizing, humiliating way. If we should ever suffer a major attack again, God forbid, the rest of us will remember very well who invited it by denouncing this country during wartime.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 264
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History
Federal health care
Posted: 3/19/2010 12:42:05 AM

Doesn’t this sound like short cut around our 4th Amendment?


The relevant question is whether it *violates* the 4th Amendment. I'm sure you must know quite a bit about the 4th Am. and its effect on the rules that apply to searches and seizures. Why don't you share your insight about this "short cut" with us in detail, so we can understand exactly how it violates the 4th Am? Feel free to cite any relevant Supreme Court decisions, etc. I'd love to hear your learned analysis--but you have a hard act to follow. You've set the bar pretty high with your earlier insightful (and very revealing) comments--especially about the effectiveness of UN sanctions against Iran and North Korea.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 265
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History
Health care
Posted: 3/19/2010 1:10:05 AM

Why, because the country is run by lawyers.


Some of us want to make sure this country's run according to the Constitution, the way it's supposed to be.

I'm sure it's tempting for a lot of people to reach the conclusion you did about lawyers. But I can tell you, for certain, that it's way off base. Most lawyers are concerned with working hard (often very hard, and under deadlines) to serve their clients the best they know how, and not with running anything.

Believe it or not, lawyers are officers of the court and swear an oath to uphold the Constitution. Most of them have a high respect for the law, and for the way it guarantees our freedoms. They also study professional ethics, and most of them take it dead seriously. Prosecutors are sworn to tell a defendant if they discover any information that might help his case. Even if that means losing.

I'd guess no one has more contempt for the John Edwards-type lowlife tort lawyer, or for the ones who get rich defending slimeballs no one needs to defend, or for the ones who endangered the lives of CIA field agents and their families by illegally (and disloyally) showing their names and photos to jihadist murderers at Gitmo--than the great majority of lawyers.
 HeyJenny
Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 266
Health care
Posted: 3/19/2010 1:28:36 AM
Dear John,

Here is a video where this guy reads word for word some of the main points of the HR3200 bill. I don't know how much of this may be changed before the final vote but anything similar to this is not good. We all have to contact whoever we can to tell them they have to vote no. If it does goes through then take any other steps,if at all possible . The president seems determined to have this pass, have you heard of the reconcilation vote?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c0mmG1KG4I

Be open minded enough to watch the video. What will be on that card, what is your applicable level? I mean what is your ration that you're gonna get? What happens if your loved one has gone beyond their "applicable level" ? People call this "eugenics". "Guess it's time for Grandma to die now" I don't believe anyone wants to say that, do you?

We have to realize we need to be on the same team regarding this. I'm not gonna check off the box of republican or democrat, this goes way beyond it.
 213history
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 267
Health care
Posted: 3/19/2010 1:32:33 AM
Since you think this is such a great idea, give us answers


Are you seriously referring the President of the United States as Howdy Dowdy? Yes, I did hear your jolly laugh from Northridge :laugh: I kid

Since Food Stamps and General Aid seems streamlined with the use of issues cards. I believe the implementation of National Healthcare cards will ultimately streamline our care. Just like bank statements, The National Healthcare will be able to track your care/services. This will also enable your doctor to make better decisions and reduce fraud.

Here is an idea how the card may work, if the system is set up like other distributions of benefits:

http://www.ebtproject.ca.gov/

Electronic Benefit Transfer (EBT) is an electronic system that automates the delivery, redemption, and reconciliation of issued public assistance benefits. EBT is the method for distributing the federal Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)[1] benefits, the California Food Assistance Program benefits and, in most California counties, cash aid benefits. EBT is currently used in all 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and Guam.

Recipients of public assistance in California access their issued benefits with the Golden State Advantage EBT card. The cardholder simply slides this card through a point-of-sale (POS) device, or uses the card at an automated teller machine (ATM). The card is convenient, secure, and reduces the stigma sometimes associated with public assistance.

The positive effects of EBT in California extend beyond the cardholder. Others who benefit include federal, state, and county governments, retailers, financial institutions, and taxpayers. EBT food and cash aid benefits can be redeemed at more than 80,000 locations in California

Hey Jen,

finished watching the video, sorry it was like actually hear Paul K talk.. / just kidding

There was too much jumping to conclusions in the video, I dispute some of those claims on earlier posts.

 HeyJenny
Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 268
Health care
Posted: 3/19/2010 1:58:19 AM
At least you watched it. I am not the one who wants to argue so I will leave it alone.Thanks for your message.
 Gogetter1956
Joined: 1/9/2010
Msg: 269
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History
Health care
Posted: 3/19/2010 7:51:31 AM
FZ what a great example of the need for both sides of the story.
 213history
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 270
Health care
Posted: 3/19/2010 10:10:41 AM
213 I would bet you are an Obamanation shill and or a supporter of progressive ideas/ socialism. Which makes any conversation with you kind of useless as like most people that support these type of politics you think America is bad and the big evil corporations have taken over the world.


Its unfortunate that you feel an honest, opposing and factual conversation would be useless. Especially, after reading, fact checking, and responding to what you had to say about President Wilson.

As a somewhat educated citizen, I feel it is my responsibility to help inform other citizens about when negative propaganda or hyperbolized claims are being presented.

If Health Care were War bonds, most readers would understand why the Sedition Act of 1919 discussed earlier was required. In my view some of the views expressed are nothing more than “un patriotic” propaganda. For example comments made during this conversation included:

• Continued scare tactic of government taking over bank accounts. This is simply not true.
• "People who work for Unions belong under a bridge."
• Disrespecting the Presidental Office: “Howdy Dowdy”
• Referring to citizens as “leeches”



In conclusion, it seems most posters would love the country to regress and return to the days where only one group of people were allowed to vote or make decisions.

I apologize for reminding the thread that times have changed.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 271
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History
Health care
Posted: 3/19/2010 11:57:02 AM
Which makes any conversation with you kind of useless as like most people that support these type of politics you think America is bad and the big evil corporations have taken over the world.


Why waste time on propagandists who cut and paste claims they pretend are their own, but who are then afraid to defend them? Why? Because they know they can't. They know almost nothing about the subject, and yet their minds are made up.

When an intellectually honest person can't respond to facts, he acknowledges it and then changes his view to include what he's learned. A drone never will--they're like people who, even if you showed them photographs from space that prove the Earth is round, would still swear it was flat.

These drones are tailor-made for Mr. Obama's legions. They march by the millions behind their Pied Piper, in a trance, one hand out, ready to grab whatever they can. What they lack in brains, they make up for in false beliefs and ignorance. And their disloyal loathing for this country matches their leader's own.
 213history
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 272
Health care
Posted: 3/19/2010 12:42:45 PM
Mr. Light

<div class="quote"> Because they know they can't. They know almost nothing about the subject, and yet their minds are made up.

This actually sounds like you guys.

Most of the facts and rebuttals I present are either ignored or posters wish to derail the conversation to their line of specialty, such as being lawyer. There is no way for me to win an argument with someone who believes they know it all.

All I can do is share my perspective as an American citizen, I am sure some posters would love to argue my citizenship.


<div class="quote">These drones are tailor-made for Mr. Obama's legions. They march by the millions behind their Pied Piper, in a trance, one hand out, ready to grab whatever they can. What they lack in brains, they make up for in false beliefs and ignorance. And their disloyal loathing for this country matches their leader's own.

Thank you for providing another example of unpatriotic propaganda.

Mr K,

I would never dismiss another person's opinion solely on their education. However, it seems like my perspectives are being dismissed by those who have made up their mind that I am public educated peon with a poisoned mind. Yet, I am the one unwilling to hear other perspectives?
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 273
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History
Health care
Posted: 3/19/2010 2:29:02 PM

Thank you for providing another example of unpatriotic propaganda.


I'm sure other posters here will get a laugh out of you presuming to accuse anyone of unpatriotic propaganda. It's you who is spreading jihadist propaganda by claiming--to cite just one example--that my country abused detainees at Guantanamo and then covered it up. Despite what you just protested, you didn't offer a shred of evidence for that. Nor could you. It isn't that anyone's unfairly ignored what you've said. It's that you've said such outlandish things, many of them insulting to this country. Yet when someone challenges you to back them up, you hide.

You now say it is the people who have disagreed with you here--and I assume you're including me--who know almost nothing about the subjects they discuss. I'd be the last one ever to claim I knew everything about the law. I don't. But unlike you, I don't pretend to know things about the law that I don't.

You say you can't compete in a debate about the law. Then why start one? You are the one who chose to claim the Patriot Act violates the 4th Amendment, for example. You can't have it both ways, asserting this or that, and then pleading that you can't be expected to defend your assertions. You spread the usual anti-American slanders, and then you want to play the put-upon victim when you're called on it.

Anyone who knew even the most basic facts would know it was the Gitmo lawyers themselves who were violating U.S. laws by helping our enemies, in the ways described in the article I cited. Dozens may have been involved, and some of them influenced the Supreme Court (to its shame) to go to bat for this country's enemies. A number of these lawyers now carry out pro-jihadist policies in this administration's Justice Department. Yet you ignore these (and many other) facts in making the completely false claim that Gitmo lawyers were part of a U.S. cover-up of wrongdoing. But wasn't it you who just complained that everyone else was ignoring the evidence you presented?
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 274
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History
Health care
Posted: 3/19/2010 4:37:11 PM
^^^^^^PH, I hope you don't seriously expect the drones in this country to give two hoots in Hades if their half-baked, ignorant schemes turn America into a toothless, over-the hill banana republic. They've taken President Kennedy's challenge, "Ask not what your country can do for you--ask what *you* can do for your *country*"--and stood it on its head.

Why should any of these dopes care a dam about a nation as rotten and wicked as their despicable, disloyal teachers have indoctrinated them to believe this one is? By what they say and do, they spit on the graves of the million Americans who have died in wars to protect all the great things they are mindlessly destroying. And when they're done with that, it's grab what you can, while you can, and the devil take the hindmost!
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 275
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History
Health care
Posted: 3/20/2010 12:28:41 AM
I'm going to try to find time tomorrow to register my view with my representative. I like what Mark Levin's doing, and I read the complaint he's filing. But as he said, we can't be sure about the outcome.

If the courts refuse to look into whether Congress has made law the way the Constitution requires, we won't live by laws any longer. From then on, any bill either House of Congress had voted for would be "law" once the president had signed it. It wouldn't matter that a majority of the members of the other House--the one which never voted on that bill, might well have voted *against* it. That would end the rule of law in the U.S. and replace it with mob rule. I hope that if the president signs this bill and claims it's law, every state will refuse to be bound by it.

The only good thing I can see about all this is that this president's signature may get him impeached. Whether this "bill"--whatever exactly it is--will pass, or if so, whether that will outrage so many voters that Republicans win a solid majority in the House this fall, no one can say. But if it that should happen, House Republicans will have a solid reason to impeach Mr. Obama, and the power to do it.

Presidents in this country serve at the will of the American people. And a simple majority of the House can give any president who forgets that a harsh reminder--one that will damage his presidency and his legacy. He may serve out his term, but his prestige will be gone. The Impeached Presidents' Club--whose only members are Andrew Johnson and William Clinton--may be about to get a third one.
 213history
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 276
Health care
Posted: 3/20/2010 1:38:37 AM
I have been trying really hard to understand the opposing perspective regarding health care. We are fortunate enough to have the time to discuss and learn from each other. I would like to simplify the ideology behind the opposition for our readers. The following are my thoughts based on posts, responses, and concerns.

Please tell me if I these views match those who oppose Health care reform:

• Expresses the need for a bipartisan health-reform bill as a stall tactic.
• Believe the system is best because of its inequality. If an industry leader, corporate board member, or lawyer can’t buy better health care than the guy that mows the lawn, then the world is not functioning as it should.
• Oppose progressive legislation that provides benefits to regular Americans.


John
 Gogetter1956
Joined: 1/9/2010
Msg: 277
view profile
History
Health care
Posted: 3/20/2010 8:31:40 AM
John, really, do you really think we have nothing to offer? If you want to fix something, you have to understand what is broken as well as how it works in order to fix it or improve it. The Obamacare plan doesn't do that. It ignores the impact of fraudulent medical lawsuits for starters. Between that and the amount of negative impact illegal's have had, fixing just those 2 things would be huge.
 213history
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 278
Health care
Posted: 3/21/2010 8:33:20 PM
Presenting fragmented information from bias sources like Republican Kevin Brady and a report written by a group called “Americans for Tax Reform.” does not paint an accurate picture.

The expansion of the IRS is necessary for the following reasons:

• US population has grown since Word War II; baby boom (1946-1964), immigration, etc
• Job Creation - How is this bad?
• Advancement in technology since World War II; which create a need for IT, software engineer, and other computer related jobs.

It should also be noted that Healthcare will take years before implementation (2014). It is well publicized that the other party will use anything and everything related to Healthcare this upcoming election.

If we look at history and the current situation, it is definitely reassuring to see our government take action.
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