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 GolfCoast
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 76
Health care Page 4 of 46    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)
Ace you must have pajamas with Karl marx's pics on them. Regarding school's, perhaps you could quit telling their pets the money belongs to the government and the "corporatists" have unfairly gotten ahold of it. Teach them to do what i did when young, model myself after sucessful people not a bunch of whine, self loathing lefty, believe any psuedo-scientific shakedown scam corrupt Dem's dream up and not only will they be fine but the society might survive.

Don't believe it? Compare texas to California? similar problems, different results.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 77
Health care
Posted: 10/18/2009 5:26:44 PM
Describing what we're up against is different than justifying laziness. I consider corporatist bums deadbeats, not successes. There is a difference between someone who can build a successful organization and someone who can milk one dry.

Sun, google, and other Silicon Valley businesses add value. Nothing wrong with that. There's a reason they're here in CA and not in Texas--though I'm sure you'd find yourself quite at home there.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 78
view profile
History
Health care
Posted: 10/18/2009 9:26:25 PM

When top-level management compensation is decided by collusive compensation committees


Just as there's always some violent crime regardless of the laws against it, there's always some corporate crime. But why should this be any greater a problem now than it ever was?

I don't think the amount of money crooked corporate managers or directors get away with is much more than a drop in the ocean, anyway, compared to the amount utterly wasted by the enormous, inefficient central government we've allowed to develop. Instead of letting our stock of capital grow, we are consuming it in vast social entitlement programs, and in interest on the debt we take on to pay for them.

And then the very fools who threw the sand into the gears stand back and shriek about how poorly the machine seems to be running. If this country had far fewer people lusting after everyone else's property--and far fewer politicians pimping for their votes by assuring them they have to right to steal it--it would be doing just fine. And no one would be asking what the government should do to get us out of this terrible economic mess.

Now, we finally have enough parasites to elect a president who promises them even more. It's the rule of the mob. And most of them don't much care if they ruin this country, as long as they've got their spot at the slop trough. Neither does Mr. Obama--he deeply resents the United States and believes it doesn't deserve to be anything more than mediocre. He seems to think he's been asked to preside over our self-destruction.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 79
Health care
Posted: 10/19/2009 12:03:16 AM
Yep. We've got takers and deadbeats at both ends of the income spectrum for sure, and pols who will whore after them. But focusing only on the one will not protect us from the other, that's for sure.

Ya'll have your eyes good and fixed on those at one end. Don't be so dismissive about what those of us who are focused on the other end are telling you.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 80
view profile
History
Health care
Posted: 10/19/2009 12:23:44 AM
I don't dismiss the problem you raise, at all. No one supports corporate crime. I just don't see the evidence it's as serious or as pervasive a problem as you're suggesting. Which makes me wonder why you focus on it. It seems to me sort of like going after the local popsicle vendor for not renewing his business license, rather than concentrating on the gang murders that are happening almost every night in the same part of town.
 GolfCoast
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 81
Health care
Posted: 10/19/2009 7:22:49 AM
Home come Ace finds the good points in the obvious? if you weren't living out some Eugene Debs, look for the union label, Friends of the Soviet union fantasy you'd realize everything people like you touches dies or moves. of course there are crooks out there, but it makes as much sense to hate business crooks because of business as it does to hate subways because muggers use them to get around. The dem party itself is a criminal enterprise with ACORN, illegal aliens AKA undocumented Democrats and all form of special favors for the financial institutions the Chris Dodd's and Barney Franks and Barbra Boxer's have been in collusion with for decades.
 fzrhusker
Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 82
Health care
Posted: 10/19/2009 8:23:47 AM

When top-level management compensation is decided by collusive compensation committees

Look at these top level theft management failures. The government is the most guilty of what you preach ACE.

Social programs 'historical failures'
By Tom Jeffers
Published: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 2:43 PM PDT
History has taught us that Government Social Programs are almost always unsuccessful. Most of the past social programs have been started by Democrats. They have always had good intentions, but their results have almost always been a failure. Politicians always want to be judged on their good intentions rather than the results of their efforts. Do you need proof? Then let's examine the following historical facts;

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775. The service has had 234 years to improve the program and make it self sustaining. The USPS is broke, heavily subsidized by taxpayers, and comes back to the taxpayers year after year for postage rate increases. They can't compete with private sector mail delivery services i.e. FedEx and UPS services and now the USPS is proposing to close hundreds of offices nationwide to reduce costs. A good example of how the US Government cannot compete with free market capitalist ingenuity.

Social Security was established in 1935 by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt (Democrat) as part of his huge "New Deal" social program package. The Government has had 74 years to improve the program and make it self sustaining. The Social Security system is broke. Contrary to popular belief, there is NO LONGER a Social Security Trust Fund. In 1965 President Lyndon Johnson (Democrat), as part of his sweeping "Great Society" social program, changed the law so that Social Security funds were removed from the independent "Trust Fund." Social Security funds were placed into the General Fund for additional congressional revenue to be used as Congress wishes. Again, the program is broke.
Fannie Mae (The Federal National Mortgage Association) was established in 1938 by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt (Democrat) as a mechanism to make home mortgages available to low income families. The Government has had 71 years to improve the program and make it self sustaining. Fannie Mae is in serious financial trouble as evidenced by the mortgage crisis earlier this year.

Freddie Mac (The Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corp.) was established in 1970 by President Richard Nixon (Republican) to expand the secondary market for home mortgages in the U.S. The Government has had 39 years to improve the program and make it self sustaining. Together with Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac has now led the entire world into the worst economic collapse in 80 years.

The War on Poverty was started in 1964 by President Lyndon Johnson (Democrat) as part of his massive "Great Society" social program package. It was the Governments attempt to reduce poverty from the then 19 percent rate. The Government has had 45 years to improve the program and make it self sustaining. $1 trillion of our tax dollars are collected each year and transferred to "the poor" and yet the national poverty level still stands at 12.8% as of 2007. The program hasn't worked as intended.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 by President Lyndon Johnson (Democrat), as another part of his sweeping "Great Society" Social Program. The government has had 44 years to improve the programs and make them self sustaining. Both programs are in serious financial trouble and our government dares to mention them as models for all US health care reforms.

AMTRAK was established in 1970 by President Richard Nixon (Republican) to provide inter-city train service in the U.S. The Government has had 39 years to make AMTRAK profitable but the program has failed miserably. Last year the government bailed out AMTRAK again, as it continues to operate at a loss!

Stimulus Bill of 2009 — This year, over a trillion dollars was committed in a massive political payoff to Democratic supporters. The bill shows NO signs of working as advertised. It's been used to increase the size of state and local governments across America, and raise government salaries. It has yet to create a single new private sector permanent job. Our national debt projections (approaching $10 trillion) have increased 400 percent in the last six months. The Government continues to print money, spending money that we don't have and running America further and further into debt for our great grandchildren and their children. So far, the Stimulus Bill of 2009 is a failure when compared to how it was presented to us. AND, the President is considering another Stimulus Bill to bail out the first one.

"Cash for Clunkers' was established in 2009 and went broke in 2009 — after 80 percent of the cars purchased turned out to be produced by FOREIGN companies, not GM, Chrysler or Ford. Dealers nationwide are buried under a mountain of bureaucratic paperwork demanded by a government that is not yet paying them what was promised.

So with a perfect 100 percent failure rate and a record that proves that each and every 'social service program" started by an over-reaching government turns into disaster, how could any informed American trust our government to run or even set policies for an American health care reform system that will equal 17 percent of our entire economy?
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 83
Health care
Posted: 10/19/2009 8:46:22 AM

perhaps you could quit telling their pets the money belongs to the government and the "corporatists" have unfairly gotten ahold of it.


Make you a deal. You tell your pets that the military budget isn't for featherbedding with aircraft we neither need nor want--not to mention God only knows what other boondoggles that aren't being publicised, and I'll remind mine that schools are there to help them make something of themselves.

Fair enough?

I don't know what to say about bailouts for the financial system. In my book too big to fail means they should have been broken up under antitrust provisions long ago. But there again, those guys are your pets, not mine.
 fzrhusker
Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 84
Health care
Posted: 10/19/2009 9:23:11 AM
Corporate special interest and lobbyists.
Social special interests and lobbyists.

We as the American WORKING people who are the back bone of both finical money pits need to find a way to put both in check.
The entire system of checks and balances has gone out of whack. What I have been trying to think of is an idea that will put these entities in check as well as our government with out violating the Constitution. (unlike Bush and Obama I care if it violates the Constitution)
 GolfCoast
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 85
Health care
Posted: 10/19/2009 9:45:44 AM
Ace free your mind, too big to fail means it's government subsidized. It's impossible to gain sufficient market share without assuming marginal inefficiencies with growth with the possible exception of technology breakthroughs in which case even there people will look to substitutes which becomes a self-governing mechanism on monopoly pricing.

Re: the military it's you Dem's problem now. The problem in military budgeting of course has always been weighing the cost of spending $5 too much compared to the unimaginable pain of spending $5 too little.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 86
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History
Health care
Posted: 10/19/2009 10:40:51 AM
One way would be for Congress to remove jurisdiction over certain questions from the federal district courts. In theory, the Courts of Appeals and the Supreme Court can act as trial courts, but in practice they couldn't even begin to take over the load. And although state courts could still decide matters of federal law, that probably wouldn't work very well, either. If a law that's being misused--for spending, silencing critics, or whatever--can't be enforced, it's meaningless.

What good would it do to resurrect the "fairness doctrine," for example, if its targets were free to defy any effort to enforce it? Better yet, Congress could gut or outright repeal harmful laws. But first, the voters need to clean out the stables. Once the electorate's been corrupted by handouts of other people's money, though, that can be very hard to do. Voting someone else's money to yourself is a lot easier than getting off your backside and earning your own.

I think this administration and Congress have done quite a few things that are unconstitutional--forcing out the CEO of GM and taking it over; appointing so-called "czars" and giving them the powers they have; Congress' delegation of its spending authority to the Executive in the "stimulus" act; and the failure of every one of its members to read that act (meaning that it wasn't properly legislated), for starters.

And Mr. Obama's failure to act on military requests by field commanders in a shooting war, two and one-half months after they made them, is close to dereliction. How many U.S. servicemen have died already because of his dithering? It's all the worse that he told the country, in late March, that he'd completed a review of our policy for Afghanistan, and announced a course of action. I suggest he wasn't telling the truth, in order to make himself look good.
 GolfCoast
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 87
Health care
Posted: 10/19/2009 11:01:34 AM
I just caught a news segment which presents a teachable moment for our economic education deprived posters (and you should know who you are lol). The President of Mexico just privatized (my term) the government run/too big to fail subsidized government electrical utility. The impact was to reduce the employee count from 42,000 union employees to 8,000 (they did not specify what the status of the 8,000 were).

Catch this, the total cost of running this government monopoly was TWICE the revenues of said government monopoly. This couldn't hurt the standard of living of regular citizens. This couldn't have been a competivitive disadvantage in mexico's business sector. This couldn't possibly have created a two-tier working class pay environment to the detriment to all but the fortunate 42,000.

There are no free lunches libtards. You must learn. When the old hippie spiritual guru asks you for the $10,000 to go sit in a tin shack sweat-hut in the Arizona desert in 130 temps to achieve spiritual enlightenment, just ask yourself before you whip out the Greenpeace Platinum Visa card "what would old Golfcoast say if he were here?"
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 88
Health care
Posted: 10/19/2009 11:41:07 AM

Re: the military it's you Dem's problem now.


Just as I thought. You're having too much fun baiting the left to do anything constructive or confront your own pets. Typical.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 89
Health care
Posted: 10/19/2009 11:43:26 AM

There are no free lunches libtards. You must learn. When the old hippie spiritual guru asks you for the $10,000 to go sit in a tin shack sweat-hut in the Arizona desert in 130 temps to achieve spiritual enlightenment, just ask yourself before you whip out the Greenpeace Platinum Visa card "what would old Golfcoast say if he were here?"


Why, he'd say, "Go right on in friends. No need for health and safety regulations or the interference of any sort of government at all. It's the free market at work and let the buyer beware. Oh, and BTW, good riddance."
 GolfCoast
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 90
Health care
Posted: 10/19/2009 12:14:42 PM
LOL a rare moment of agreement Ace, 60 dopey left-wing whack jobs educated beyond their capacity full of self-loathing searching for meaning and willing and able to be punished by someone with a semblance of survival skills asking them to go sit in a tin shack and parboil themselves for the Earth lol it gets no better.

Asking people who actually are at one with the universe, at peace with themselves and knowing the world is better for their existence having to pay for a bunch of slugs who are unable to pay their own way in the end...nightmarish.

The entire story brings to mind the token libtard chick in my office a few years ago whining about how she could not afford healthcare without a subsidy, one day she comes in all joyful saying they had saved her cat....she spent $14,000 on some radiation treatment for the old tabby. So shes basically saying she can buy a new car, save a 15 year old cat, live in abeachfront apartment, go to Europe for a month every few years but paying for her own healthcare is out of the question. How very typical.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 91
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History
Health care
Posted: 10/19/2009 6:34:58 PM
Let me guess--she was into pilates and yoga, lived "green," thought Bill Maher was profound, loved to bag on "Shrub," thought no war was ever OK, didn't drive an American car, and generally had all the mental acumen of the average Stegosaurus.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 92
Health care
Posted: 10/20/2009 12:12:31 PM
LOL a rare moment of agreement Ace, ...

Asking people who actually are at one with the universe, at peace with themselves and knowing the world is better for their existence having to pay for a bunch of slugs who are unable to pay their own way in the end...nightmarish.


Somehow, I am not comforted. I think that one does one's best to make a positive contribution in this world, but to be smugly sure that it worked? Not sure about that.

I guess my idea about those who aren't contributing in the way I'd prefer is to educate them and reason with them. Yours appears to be just to fleece 'em. In what way exactly does that make the world a better place?
 GolfCoast
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 93
Health care
Posted: 10/20/2009 12:38:42 PM
ACE why would you iumagine a small government, mostly libertarian, self-made, never taken anything from anyone, poster is "out to fleece someone?"

Is there something wrong with your brain? Do you have some sort of head injury, or personal sociopathy that causes you to project this sort of gibberish? Are you in prison or institutionalized in some significant manner that causes you to assume this would be a normative position someone who thinks men do quite well without government keepers?
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 94
Health care
Posted: 10/20/2009 4:08:47 PM

ACE why would you iumagine a small government, mostly libertarian, self-made, never taken anything from anyone, poster is "out to fleece someone?"


By your affirmative response to my "good riddance" line. You took the bait.

If all who claimed to believe as you do actually did, and actually put it into practice even if it meant less power or less profit to themselves, I would stand with you on every point. I might remonstrate with you a bit here and there on your obnoxious judgmentalism, but I'd live with it.

However, when people use your high ideals as political cover to fleece the rest of us, and you consistently refuse to consider the possibility that your heroes are lying to you and the rest of us, and when you continue to argue against any and all reasonable checks against their perfidy, I wonder what the hell is wrong with you.

Unless you're one of the guys whose feels it's his job in life to provide such cover.
 GolfCoast
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 95
Health care
Posted: 10/20/2009 4:30:40 PM
Ace you've got some serious, unfixable problems regarding the motivation of conservatives. You may be the purest form of true believer AKA useful idiot as the old Stalinist's used to label.

Your ability to provide yourself even the rudimentary of reality checks..e.g., where is internet acess and broadests , the US? or China, Cuba or Venezuela which probably reflect most accurately that pay of authoritarian Ozero slugs plan?
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 96
Health care
Posted: 10/20/2009 6:13:03 PM
The places that censor the Internet don't have net neutrality. They'd laugh at the idea. That's why I'm a liberal and not a socialist. You really should borrow a dictionary some time and look up the difference.

Or maybe you'd prefer Somalia, a libertarian's dream--no effective government!
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 97
Health care
Posted: 10/20/2009 6:19:51 PM

You may be the purest form of true believer AKA useful idiot as the old Stalinist's used to label.


Yep. They used to call folks like you running dogs of Capitalism. What do those two groups of idiots have in common? A refusal to consider the possibility that their opinions might be mistaken and a consequent inability to think for themselves.

The day you surprise me is the day I'll know that you're neither a dupe nor a schill. Until then, the jury is out as far as I'm concerned. I have surprised you upon occasion, because you simply cannot grasp how I might both favor the market and favor its appropriate regulation at the same time. But your lack of comprehension is not a fault of mine.

There is an awful lot of value in the perspective of some conservatives. Socialists definitely have a tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater. But your willingness to dismiss all criticisms and put down the people who raise them is simply reactionary. There's nothing libertarian about a closed mind. You have your story and you're sticking to it. Whatever floats your boat, man. Good luck with it!
 GolfCoast
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 98
Health care
Posted: 10/20/2009 7:02:30 PM
I am a proud running dog Capitalist. I embrace all aspects of the label. You should embrace useful idiot as you certainly are. Imaginaing there is some negotiated middle ground between Capitalists on the one hands and Stalinist's and Maoists on the other is a mental disorder.

Try again, I accept with a smile your reactionary label, comrade, my side does not deliberately destroy 100 million people for ideological reasons.
 MermaidSari
Joined: 2/4/2007
Msg: 99
view profile
History
Health care
Posted: 10/20/2009 7:03:33 PM


(no further comment -- except I think I'll have some wine and relax in a warm bath tonight). :-p

National health care = something you pay the price for and with no guarantee [but to the contrary if observing other countries and history] that the gov. will guarantee better care and can accomodate ''''timely'''' care for all. <---hmmm...was that a comment after all...

okay off to my bubble bath...

Enjoy your debate men...:-p

But on the ..OP...Doctors are yummy (some are that is)...but they don't create policy and their special interest groups are running short against the current administration.

It should be about what is in the 'best' interest of the tax payers (those hiring and paying the docs.). The question should be 'what does gov. have to do with private industry in a gov. built upon capitalism -- not communist/socialist values). My family just beat cancer...based on research and guidance not received or offered by the gov.

You want health care -- consider you being at the helm, Captain versus the gov. who is in the business of collecting and allocating taxes over 'caring' about 'individual' cases over publishing statistics. All the statistics in the world nor welfare will not save one life...when it comes down to the absolute truth ****about politics...****

which is ****not medicine.****

*wink*
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 100
Health care
Posted: 10/20/2009 7:19:23 PM
Imaginaing there is some negotiated middle ground between Capitalists on the one hands and Stalinist's and Maoists on the other is a mental disorder.


Haven't you heard, the Commies lost! Nobody wants to live like that. They'd prefer Somalia. Personally, I'd prefer to live among reasonable people who are actually safe enough to behave reasonably and cooperate. And so there we have it, folks, ideological gridlock vs. pragmatism. Really, good luck with your crazy world at war.

Hey conservatives, do y'all really see it that way too?
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