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Show ALL Forums  > California  > Health care      Home login  
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 BikerBiker53
Joined: 6/11/2005
Msg: 126
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Health care Page 6 of 46    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)

12) Make the system go bankrupt

IE Social Security - Bankrupt

Medicare - Bankrupt

Medicaid - Bankrupt

Post Office - Bankrupt

U.S. Govt - Bankrupt


Makes Perfect sense to me.

At least thats the Forecast for the Future I see.

Of course I'd love to be wrong.

Why,...in all this time,..have we NOT had an Elected Official(s) come up with a way to Save the Economy,..instead of do it greater harm ?

(Simple,..Because CONGRESS wont allow it.)

Do you ever get the feeling that its all part of "The Plan" ?

Bankrupt America,..combine Canada, Mexico and the United States together,.....
throw in a Health Care Package,..some New Currency,..and a Dictator Puppet,....
and then we have a New Era !

The "Era" of being Slave Labor for our "New" Boss, while we toil away doing What They Want Us To,..while they bask in the Limelite.

All "Unemployed",..will immeditly be put to Work, constructing Bridges,..Toll Roads,... Buildings,...Homes,...Apts,...Sewers,...Sidewalks,....picking up Trash,...etc....

Everyone will have to WORK,..or they dont eat,...

The Money for Retirement you had stashed away,...was lost in the Collaspe of the Stock Marlet, and closing of 90 % of the Banks.

After the majority of Banks go under, there will only be a select few remaining,.....all Owned by our "New" Government.

Get ready for your "New" Gas Ration Card,..your "New" Food Stamp/Debit Card,...your "New" Energy Assistance Card,...your "New" JOB Card",...
and get ready for your "New" Health Care Medical Card,....

Brought to you Folks by "Rockefeller - Goldman Saks - Bilderburg - Rothchild - JP Morgan and Company".
(Sorry if I left someone out)
 Gogetter56
Joined: 9/27/2008
Msg: 127
Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 5:41:23 PM
Obama called the misinformation and complete lies about where the stimulous plan has created jobs a side issue. The same will be done with the health care system if it passes. It's all a complete farce. Anyone that believes it is what they say it is is more gullible than I was when I trusted a lawer to pay me the final $115K on the custom home I built him.
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 128
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Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 7:36:19 PM

No man in their right mind would volunteer unless they were already accustomed to living under the control of a throne of some kind or if they have been snowed by personal motives stemming from past bad health care experiences (no offense intended).


You don't have a solid understanding of popular opinion, do you? According to a Washington Post-ABC News poll a month ago, 57% of Americans support a public option.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/19/AR2009101902451.html
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 129
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Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 7:54:25 PM

I don't trust polls anymore.


Really, there have been dozens of polls by various different groups, and they have overwhelmingly shown that the American people support a public option. Sure, there is a margin of error in these polls, but nothing to suggest a majority of Americans don't support a public option.


In CA Pirate, they are already talking about how good its going to be for the CA economy. I don't trust that my state will make the right choice, so for me, I do face a big brother nightmare, I fear. I don't want to move away from CA. You already shared that you have the means and the intent to move. I do not have the same immediate luxury.


Um, or you can just not take the public option? What's wrong with doing that?
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 130
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Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 8:22:12 PM

Okay, I'll be frank here. I know folks who own businesses. They do not maintain health care for themselves but they make money by going out on an independent limb without the health coverage to be gained from a nine to five with a corporation. Some barely get by, but they are getting by. Some of those I know are enterprising artists as well. Not everyone is jazzed about being forced into compliance in a "free" country. This bill will cause entrepreneurs to fork up an extra expense or just keep working at their nine to fives.


Aaaaah, so the 57% of Americans who support this plan should lose out because you know three nincompoops who probably don't understand health care? And you think that MY tax dollars should pay for their expensive ER treatment, should they become ill from lack of regular care?


To which someone might ague, "well then, it sounds like this person can't afford to have their own business then..." and I'd argue back, "back off!" This is an intrusive bill.


So is the ban on gay marriages, but I don't see you campaigning against that.
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 131
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Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 8:39:24 PM

No one has to marry, everyone will have to buy insurance and never be caught for even a day without coverage. Gross.

No one will be forced to buy health insurance.


What will the guy out of work do until he replaces his JOB?


He'll get government subsidies. Jeez, read a newspaper for once.
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 132
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Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 8:43:13 PM

What a shock, they run a poll in some urban ghetto and ask if they'd like a freebie or not? moron central.


That is stupid and wrong.
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 133
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Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 8:45:15 PM

Total losers trying to manufacture more losers. Government "subsidies?" Ok...


Under the current system, people who don't have jobs usually don't have access to health care. In the new system, they will. I don't see how you can see that as a negative. Your friends who are uninsured will be able to get proper health care. What's so bad about that?
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 134
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Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 8:51:21 PM

EVERYONE else will have to pay for it... It is basically socialism...THAT is BAD..


Well, fortunately America is a democracy. The majority of Americans clearly favor a public option, so what you think is "BAD" means absolutely nothing.
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 135
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Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 8:59:59 PM

I don't recall a time in history when fellow citizens spoke like that to fellow citizens as a means of persuasion.


Cry me a river. If you don't like democracy, there are plenty of countries that don't have it. If you don't like what the American people want - a public option, in this case - that's just too bad.
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 136
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Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 9:05:11 PM

Not everyone needs or wants coverage when you say they need or want it. Some are willing to take out loans to cover unexpected medical costs. I think they deserve such liberty. I am saddened that you don't.


See, the problem is that uninsured people who suddenly get very, very sick rarely pay their bills once they get well. They usually declare bankruptcy or simply don't pay.
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 137
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Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 9:15:22 PM

You are not promoting democracy when you ignore the Constitution of the United States of America.


Pretty blanket statement. Why don't you explain, using specific Supreme Court cases, why the public option is unconstitutional?


And even if your opinions and ideas were correct, your lousy, arrogant, rude attitude isn't winning you any followers. A sharp tongue does not mean you have a keen mind.


I think the way I've continually shown you up is evidence enough that I have a keen mind. See, you don't mind flaming, yourself, but you don't follow it up with concrete understanding of the issues at hand, such as the suppression of science by the Catholic Church in the other thread. You seem to have no problem with other people exchanging barbs, but when someone not only disagrees with you but proves you wrong repeatedly, you get all angry.


I am not so sure that a majority favor THIS option.


Well, you've done absolutely nothing to support this fact, while I've clearly shown that Americans in general support a public option. This is pure speculation on your part. You should learn from me, and try to back up some of your ideas with opinion polls, facts and logic.
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 138
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Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 10:04:19 PM
Elfman, let's enlighten you on statistics.

In order to have a valid result, the samples have to be radom, selected from...yeah I lost you.

Put it this way, volunteer polls are the bowels of the ignorant. They're an invalid sample and can be skewed to the delight of the people utilizing the "data."

I'm willing to bet you still believe in the tooth fairy.


Um, I've probably taken more courses on statistics than you've read books (I've taken three courses on stats). Basically, the margin of error in a poll of n people out of a population of p is the square root of p(1-p)/n.

And yes, polls can be manipulated. The way that is done is by changing the question. A famous example is the "push polls" used by Lee Atwater during George W. Bush's primary campaign in South Carolina in 2000. John and Cindy McCain adopted a Bengali girl, and people were asked, "would you be more likely or less likely to vote for John McCain for president if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?" That's why in the aforementioned Washington Post -ABC News poll, the question was quite simply, "Do you support a public option to compete with private insurers." In short, that particular poll wasn't manipulated.


Source: http://www.bdtonline.com/columns/local_story_320170804.html

Buzz off commies.


I'm sorry, but that has nothing to do with what we were talking about. You implied that a public option goes against the United States Constitution. Can you explain this stance? I know your poorly-formed reasoning or not liking it, but what specifically in the United States Constitution precludes a public option for health care?
 Gogetter56
Joined: 9/27/2008
Msg: 139
Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 10:20:00 PM
We left Europe for good reason. We don't WANT to be like them. We don't want metrics, liters and kilos (yes, unfortunately we already do have some of that here) and we certainly don't want socialized healthcare. The Obaminator probably thinks they can fix the deficit by taking over those huge healthcare insurance company profits and that running healthcare insurance can't possibly take all that...talk about euphoric dreamers
 Gogetter56
Joined: 9/27/2008
Msg: 140
Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 10:21:54 PM
Nancy Pelosi already said they would be fined...kick 'em when their down
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 141
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Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 10:40:21 PM

“Section 7201 — felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.

“Section 7203 — misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.”


Umm... There is no Section 7201 or 7203 in H.R. 3962. You're completely wrong. In fact, those are sections from Internal Revenue Code. Please do not post false information.
 Gogetter56
Joined: 9/27/2008
Msg: 142
Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 10:52:29 PM

GoGetter,
Um, the more educated scientists in America do use the metric system. The majority of Americans do want healthcare reform. This is a Republican oriented forum consisting of roughly fifteen regulars. Hardly a majority, especially in California where the majority of us are Democrat. This forum is what's called an outlier in the statistical world.


...and our state is nearly bankrupt
 Gogetter56
Joined: 9/27/2008
Msg: 143
Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 10:53:58 PM

I tried to tell you the penalties are for failure to pay your taxes.


As if they won't be healthcare related...where is your thinking cap?
 Gogetter56
Joined: 9/27/2008
Msg: 144
Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 11:32:53 PM
It will be added to your tax bill. If you don't pay in full, there will be penalties. Penalties = Fines. DUH
 Gogetter56
Joined: 9/27/2008
Msg: 145
Health care
Posted: 11/19/2009 11:38:17 PM
Deductive reasoning doesn't take brilliance.
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 146
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Health care
Posted: 11/20/2009 12:35:17 AM

One of the connections of the HR. 3962 is to the IRS, which means IRS enforcement

IRS Code 7201 Attempt to evade or defeat a tax
IRS Code 7203 Wilful failure to file return, supply information, or pay tax

IRS code isn't written into the bill but the sections will apply because it's a tax.

*mildy amused at the boys kicking sand*

I asked Rockella to post which part of the health care bill said that people would go to jail or be fined for not buying a health care plan. She LIED about what part of the bill, posting sections of an entirely different bill whatsoever. Then, to cover her lies, she copied and pasted the penalties for BUSINESS OWNERS who fail to file for health insurance.

Quite frankly, the bill says absolutely nothing about penalties for individual persons who don't buy insurance because there are none. Income taxes due are an aggregate amount; you can't pick and choose which parts to pay. That was established back in the 1960s, when people who opposed the Vietnam War only paid a percentage of their taxes based on the percentage of government funds spent on the military. People are no more "forced" to buy health insurance as they are "forced" to buy tanks and aircraft for the military.

I've lost all respect for Rockella.
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 147
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Health care
Posted: 11/20/2009 12:39:34 AM


You're saying the working class and rich should pay into a healthcare system to support the non-workers.


Nope, Obama's proposed tax increases would not hit working-class families.
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 148
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Health care
Posted: 11/20/2009 12:58:39 AM

*cough* So you're saying tax the rich to support the non-workers?

You're making people who have made money pay for their success?

Socialism is alive and well in elfman's world.


In a time of economic crisis - a 16% real unemployment rate - it's time we stop the tax breaks on wealthy Americans and start to redistribute the money they should have been paying in taxes during the Bush years.


I bet you're going to tell us that any inheritance should go to the state to be redistributed to the masses.


Um, no.
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 149
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Health care
Posted: 11/20/2009 1:04:42 AM

Well, this bill doesn't provide for those illeagal (sic) aliens

..........................................YET

"just you wait Henry Higgins, just you wait"


The almost idiotic leap in logic: appeal to probability. Supposing that because something can happen that it will happen? Do you ever use sound logic in any of your posts?


Damn I said I launched into country songs, where did that come from?


Could it be that you're a redneck?
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 150
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Health care
Posted: 11/20/2009 1:14:22 AM
Country music and redneckery usually go hand-in-hand. I was just asking.
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