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 Helen0426
Joined: 6/2/2009
Msg: 49
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal Page 2 of 23    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23)
The situation you've described differs substantively from the one in the referenced thread. There, the man said he'd taken the woman out "a few times" (no mention of wining and dining; it might've been to a Dunkin' Donuts for all we know; I checked his history) and that he "wouldn't complain if she was having sex with me." He also said, "I'm not a cheap man....I do spoil myself." Himself - not others.

Very few of us think of "a few times" as equivalent to "awhile." In fact "a few times" doesn't mean anything at all except that there may be mutual interest in getting to know one another. "Awhile," though variable in interpretation, nonetheless implies familiarity, such as that we do already know one another somewhat.

You put a couple of posts on that thread in support of the OP, indicating that you were getting very different responses here.

That is because you are describing a very different situation - and, you're not complaining about someone being broke. Take note that women who complain about a man being broke don't get a lot of sympathy either.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 50
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 2:58:36 PM

Sorry but this is true. I have NEVER taken a woman to a nice restaurant with the expectation of getting laid FOR THE FIRST TIME.


The OP wasn't talking specifically about the first time but a succession of dates

OP, I agree with you--others can talk about STDs and morals, and such, but let's get real. If a man or a woman has an STD, it is NOT going away after a first date or a tenth date unless something is done about it. Dating someone long-term does not guarantee that a person is clean of STDs.

As far as morals--who defines them? Even within the realm of Judeo/Xtian morality, ideas about sex have changed. I teach college, and I have read in journals and heard Christian students who have premarital sex. I had a date with a self-professed Christian man who looked at me at one point and said, "I just want you to know that I am not one of those Christians who believe sex is only for marriage."

If I plan on being a platonic friend with a man, I'll tell him as soon as I know, and that will be early on, but if I continue to see a man without the platonic aspects spelled out, the relationship will include sex. I have male friends, but I don't date them! If I tell a man that I do not want a sexual relationship with him and he pursues one, he won't be a friend for long.

As far as women being offended or surprised because men want sex from them, they need to grow up. Women ALWAYS can say "no" and so can men (not to be sexist).
 untamedspirit009
Joined: 6/10/2009
Msg: 52
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 3:10:49 PM
{{In a current thread, many women have been jumping all over a man who had wined and dined a woman for awhile, because he was complaining that she didn't give him sex. Many of the women's replies told the man that if he expected sexual favors in return for dining and entertaining this woman, that he should get a Prostitute.}}

He had 3 or 4 dates with her, it was not considered 'awhile'...He also stated she told him 'she doesn't rush into sex with a new guy' ===He is a new guy that has taken her on 3 to 4 dates and expressed 'if he was getting sex he wouldn't mind paying for the dates all the time'. He got bashed by these ladies and some men on the forums for being expressing his 'p* r* i* c* k mode' character.

{{In this day and age, most men anticipate having sexual relations with a woman that they have been wining and dining, within a month or 2. They anticipate it, and most women probably do as well. SEX is part of a healthy relationship.}}

You are correct, it is anticipation...but to expect it on the 3rd or 4th date does state the man thinks he is entitled to sex in exchange for dinner dates.

Stop generalizing women, I would not be upset...I would turn him into the platonic friend and seek sexual compatibility elsewhere.
 bikeman1467
Joined: 9/22/2009
Msg: 53
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History
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 3:12:20 PM
The OP wasn't talking specifically about the first time but a succession of dates
Alright--I've never gone on a series of dates with a woman, inviting her to pricey restaurants, with an implicit OR explicit sexual EXPECTATION.

To get to a series of pricey "wine and dine" dates, don't ya hafta get to the first one first? I never even get that far, LOL.

Most often after a "wine and dine" experience with a woman we've developed intimacy together BEFORE so that the sex afterwards was CONSENSUAL, MUTUALLY SATISFYING, and pretty much A GIVEN.
 CompletelyDone
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 55
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 3:20:20 PM

I abhor this topic so much, I can't even bring myself to read through the thread. I may well be saying something that's been said over, and over, and over. The only reason I'm making this post is because I want this topic to DIE. I want people (men AND women) to grow up, and I want to never see this kind of thing ever again.


I second that D. Coffman!!! This is the ONE subject that has forumites running on the hamster wheel and getting absolutely nowhere!

I don't know what the hell is wrong with caring for caring sake alone and why everybody has to "get something" out of every single thing they do in order to feel it's worthwhile. Sometimes, we do wonderful generous things like taking someone else out for a nice dinner (YES, even our FRIENDS) just because it feels good to be able to do that.

Sheesh people... Your spinnin' is making some of us nauseous.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 57
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 3:40:01 PM
Sex (even great) does NOT keep a man around - I know that from experience in my younger days. Ok - I'm ready for the name calling................
I saw very little wine-ing and dining. Whether or not a guy is getting sex or not getting it doesn't matter. If he is not capable of a meaningful relationship with a woman it won't make a difference if she is swinging from the chandelier in 4 inch stillettos and nothing else - he will have his fun with her and then suddenly believe he's all that and a bag of chips to someone even hotter.
A lot of women have a good sense if a guy is dead behind the eyes and they keep going out with him hoping he is just one of those "still waters run deep" bozos.

DATING (it's called) is where 2 people spend time together interacting, sharing information about their lives, what kind of person they are, their hopes and plans for their life so they can see if they are compatible enough to bond through intimacy. It shouldn't be where the guy picks up the tab after sitting there thinking about how he's going to "get it"- not hearing a word she says, or her sitting there like a stone night after night wondering when he's going to start being more open and sharing.
If you're going to keep taking a woman out, and know she doesn't believe in sex before marriage, you should know that when you first start dating. If she does believe there are circumstances under which she feels good about sex, find out what they are. If it's a committed relationship she needs, sh!t or get off the pot. If she is sending mixed signals, ask her to explain herself, or she really feels about you.

....and sex appeal is a faux illusion created by the media that very few women can even live up to anymore and men seem to buy into hook line and sinker.
 CoolOldBroad
Joined: 8/9/2007
Msg: 61
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History
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 4:03:05 PM
Well, it's still October, and I muse over why you decided to capitalize the word "prostitute." Might be something Freudian there? Oh, to think, before one's head explodes.......
 Genuine_Gentleman_For_You
Joined: 4/22/2009
Msg: 62
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 4:16:29 PM
OP, so what you're saying is that the only intention of wining and dining a lady, is to have sex with her? I thought wining and dining a lady was to impress her, and to show yourself as being a gentleman. Why expect sex in return? Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I thought sex was something that is to be willingly and unselfishly given by both, and not something expected as payback for a meal.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 66
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 4:45:23 PM
Unless you happen to be going on blind dates and we aren't talking about Internet dating in this thread, isn't the point of this Internet dating to correspond with individuals a little bit beforehand? I know, I know...there will be all kinds of people who will say they want to hook up as fast as possible and meet for said wining and dining and get to know the person that way first, face to face.

My style when I was doing Internet dating was to get to the point of what I was after and what the guy was after even before we met, which included how I and he felt about expectations where sex and dating were concerned. For some reason, too many people like to leave that topic in limbo land and then get their collective snot in a knot when either the guy (if it's the guy) is pushing for sex too soon for her comfort or the female is appearing to show a disinterest in anything sexual in relation to the guy's time lines. Take your pick on whatever the scenario is about who gets bent out of shape for whatever reason. I say this time and again in the forums. What business do people have contemplating being in relationships (dating), being in relationships or continuing on in relationships if they can't discuss sex and expectations that surround it? By and large, the majority of people on dating sites aren't first time daters, have been in more than one relationship before, and are full blown adults. For those who constantly get bent out of shape about assumptions or expectations of the other party, the easiest way to avoid that is to communicate. If you can't, won't or don't, then by all means, continue the whine-ing and dining, because that's what it amounts to by both parties. Sex is a part of life when you reach a certain age. If you're old enough to have it, you're old enough to discuss it. If you can't, in my opinion you're sexually immature and you need to work on that before you even contemplate dating.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 67
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 4:59:17 PM

Most often after a "wine and dine" experience with a woman we've developed intimacy together BEFORE so that the sex afterwards was CONSENSUAL, MUTUALLY SATISFYING, and pretty much A GIVEN.


Um, if men or women are NOT having consensual sex, there is something wrong with the picture--prosecution by the law wrong. Why would ANYONE have sex that is not mutually satisfying? Once, maybe twice, to see if it gets better, but more than that, get a new partner.


If you like a woman enough to have sex with her...then you should be prepared to marry her and if you aren't ready for that commitment.....go on your merry way.....get your vaseline out and cool the sausage down till you are ready to seriously look for a mate.


Hmmm . . . I see this is directed at men and not women. So, tell me, as a woman, if I like a man well enough to have sex with him, I have to marry him??? Yikes! You sound as if men are the only one who desire sex--you have a thing or two to learn about women.

And I prefer a lubricant made specifically for the vagina, not Vaseline.


I consider those that flippantly have premarital sex (not that all do it flippantly...there are plenty that make mistakes) are little better than child molesters or rapists.


Thank Buddha, Zeus, Inanna, Isis, Kali and Lao Tzu that YOU are not in charge of anything. To equate sex between consenting adults, even flippant sex (whatever the hell that is), with child molestation and rape is indicative of a mind that has a warped and unhealthy sexual outlook.


Premarital sex demeans both the man and the woman and puts a curse on future committed relationships.


NOTHING that YOU think can demean me. If I sleep with 1,000 men and/or women, it is not demeaning to me unless I choose to think so.


and I sure as hell don't want to date someone that expects it....


Durn, I was going to ask you out.
 _SYN_
Joined: 9/20/2009
Msg: 68
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 5:23:05 PM
lol I think I used the word "hooker" with my reply to that other thread, but anyway.... I think the key words here would be "anticipate" and "expect". Although the two words are quite similar, they can be quite different as well. Anticipating, wanting, hoping, desiring sex after several encounters is quite natural, BUT expecting sex after several encounters because you feel it's due you, like a reward, like a payment is NOT ok... not for me at least.

As for your comment about women putting all that "effort" into getting ready for a date, women in general put a lot of "effort" into getting ready for just about anything, be it a date, work, funeral, or trip to the grocery store.... it's just what we do.

I do feel that sex is vital for a healthy intimate relationship, BUT it is quite possible for a man or woman to enjoy spending time with someone of the opposite sex and still NOT feel sexually attracted to them. I don't feel either party should feel the need to "put out" just because X amount of dollars have been spent in the process of seeing how things will progress over time. It may not be the 1950's any longer, but I still need to feel that passion with someone before I hop into bed with them. If the guy spends big bucks wooing me, and I still don't feel that spark, it's not going to happen. I'm sure that I would make every attempt to make myself clear on that fact as well along the way. He would always have the option of not seeing me further since it may never get to that point, or continuing to enjoy each others company on a friendship level.
 _SYN_
Joined: 9/20/2009
Msg: 69
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 5:28:10 PM
lmao dcoffman... that would be the short and sweet version of what I meant to say.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 72
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 6:17:46 PM
I just say give it up already... It's just sex for crying out loud...
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 74
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 6:28:09 PM
Bang bang does a body good!!!
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 75
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 6:33:36 PM
You know another consideration that doesn't seem to be discussed or addressed much when it comes to a woman giving it up to a guy after a couple of dates, has nothing to do with virtues, reputation, or obeying some stupid self imposed rules.

Women will ALWAYS usually be the weaker sex physically. If someone isn't giving a woman a good read on who he really is. she can just very well lose something besides her dignity. Watching the news. both local and national really tells me there's a lot of crazy fvcks out there. The economy is causing more stress, which in turn is a trigger for more sociopaths. The last thing I want is for a casual encounter to go bad and I'M the one who ends up on the 6pm news. A woman can't always be sure why a guy want's to get her alone. He mayhave a real rage towards women who don't meet his idea of what they should be.

Look at George Sodini - the gym shooter. He couldn't laid so he went on a killing spree. Do you supposed women could just sense that he was fvcked up & held resentment for women? That he had no social skills or ability to form a bond with another human being? So they avoided him like the plague. Many men who write about their sense of entitlement here in the forums think very similar to the way he did. To be honest, much of what I read here is scary.

There are religious nuts that would just love to teach a "free thinking liberal" woman a "lesson". So it's not just the demanding ones - it's also those who look down on women for not being virtuous enough.

I have a good friend who used to be carefree about casual encounters and sex. She knew the same people he knew, they went out a couple of times and then when he got her to the hotel room, he tied her to the door so she couldn't move, took out a board and hit her over the backside so hard the board broke eventually, and then filled the tub with scalding water and held her head under. She has permanent back problems now but she didn't lose her life.

If a woman doesn't trust you, she isn't giving you a damn thing, even if she's the whore of babylon.
 farscapeprincess
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 78
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 7:29:15 PM

Personally, I thrive for passion in a relationship. I expect the men I date not to be pigs, but as a woman I want to feel desired. Sex shouldn't be the entire basis for any relationship, but it certainly is important. If I was dating a man who didn't seem interested in knowing me intimately I would be VERY worried. Practice safe sex, and follow gut instincts... I don't see how having sex within 60 days could possibly be as dangerous as that one poster suggests... lol.


I totally agree with you. I think you can be reasonably sure that the person you've been dating in this time frame is not a whack job. It also depends on whether the both of you will be monogamous, i.e. defining what the relationship is -- whether it will be a LTR one and that means you have to feel some certainty that the guy is truthful. Of course, safe sex should be practiced regardless. Wining and dining is fine, but not necessary for a date. A date can be anything: a movie, visit to a museum, a comedy show, the beach if you're near an ocean, etc. I think it's a reasonable assumption for two people (in this case the guy in the other thread) to want the relationship to progress to a sexual one. But if that woman wasn't ready...well maybe she was seeing some red flags or had trust issues with men in general. Who the hell knows since we don't know her side. I don't see it as wrong that he would expect sex after several weeks of dating, but also since we don't know her, there is more to it.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 82
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 8:14:45 PM
I know when I've taken the time to know and then date a man I would be upset if he did not find me sexually attractive. I enjoy men and having a sexual relationship. As far as religious nuts I'm a church going Christian and I am not judged by the congregation I attend because of it. They pray for me in hopes I once again settle down someday. That's their choice and I make my own as well.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 85
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History
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 8:26:53 PM
[In a current thread, many women have been jumping all over a man who had wined and dined a woman for awhile, because was complaining that she didn't give him sex. Many of the women's replies told the man that if he expected sexual favors in return for dining and entertaining this woman, that he should get a Prostitute.]

From what I read of the thread, people (not just women) were jumping all over the guy cuz he said he wouldn't mind paying for stuff if the woman slept with him. The comparison to prostitution came about from his own words.

As far as sex appeal, well that is simply attractiveness to the opposite sex. It has nothing to do with money at all. I admit, I can sympathize with the man who is seeking a SO, and being willing to pay for endless dinners knowing that their relationship will go somewhere, both physically & otherwise, but that wasn't the way it was presented. There is a difference between anticipation & expectation. Many of the participants in the thread being discussed suggested spending time getting to know this woman doing things that didn't cost money. One's willingness to wait (or not) for sex is a personal matter, but when you bring money into it, well, he deserved what he got.

Those are my thoughts!
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 86
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 9:27:33 PM
Let me know what you find out.... we could do well in this economy. A good sex toy pays for itself within a few dates - especially if the guy is paying. Whoa - what a great marketing ploy!

Not when "Miss Michigan" is absolutely free, requires no fresh supply of batteries or waiting for delivery, has no shipping & handling charges and is located right at the end of his right arm. I would venture to guess that women buy more toys than men do because it has no refund & requires advanced planning & small commitment. But that's a whole other show.
 ChancesRMD
Joined: 4/11/2009
Msg: 88
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 9:49:27 PM
But you told me they were mine Silken? And all this time. I'm calling Jerry.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 89
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/14/2009 10:05:35 PM

I'm thinking we need to get out the prehump post date agreement forums and see what we can come up with!

Just make sure ya both agree on a safe word.
 peppermint petunias
Joined: 9/2/2009
Msg: 91
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:19:58 AM
OK you buy a few dinners and you deserve sex..we get it.
No thanks.
So does a Taco bell get you to first base?
Applebees second base?
And so on? I mean if we are going to set a price, set a price.

Wouldn't a prostitute or escort just save you money in the long run?
This is about money, as I read the other thread.


SEX is part of a healthy relationship

Yes it is. Dinner or dancing is not a "relationship".

You could have 3 or 4 dates in 2 months. Still does not equal a "relationship".
 BlueEyes1712
Joined: 4/24/2008
Msg: 92
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History
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:48:11 AM
I think the problem is that both men and women have double standards. What women dont want men to do, many times they do the same thing themselves and vise versa. Men have a stronger desire for sex due to testoserone. Women usually hold out longer than men to get what they want out of a guy. See the double standard, different but the same no less. This occurs in many different ways, we see them in all the forums by what each sex complains about in the other and is substansiated many times with the defense of others in that group.
So it is not for others to judge you for what you want, but for yourself to find happiness in what you do.
 PiggyT
Joined: 9/14/2009
Msg: 94
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 6:20:18 AM
^^^ I am so fat I break a sweat just waking up....
I was on a diet for 2 weeks and all I lost was 14 days...
The only thing I would be pounding that is 6 inches would be that nail, but I am so weak I can't lift the hammer. I would break a sweat trying to though...

SHEESH

That is one disenfranchised woman up there.

Sex appeal has nothing to do with your ability to purchase ready made food.
It sets zero expectations except whether you wish to see the other person again.
Sex happens between consenting ADULTS... and as ADULTS, you will choose when to discuss the very important issue of becoming intimate. This varies based on the two people involved.

This may be a shock to some but personally... I am turned OFF by any woman that wants to bump uglies too quickly. This reeks of insecurities.

When dating... The best expectations to have are NONE!

As for sex appeal. Some have it... some don't.
Results may vary.

vvv
Now I am surrounded by them.
 ForumsGee
Joined: 2/26/2009
Msg: 95
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 6:22:13 AM
Savona!

Hey Girlfriend!!! Its me down here in Sarasota :) Im LOVING THIS POST. I laughed so loud that I nearly pee''d my pants! You are RIGHT ON THE MONEY with this one!
.. I honestly think this with MOST men though, (not just POF men)

Nice One!

Hows things with you?

private email me and lets catch up ...

G
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