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 mermaid140
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 98
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal Page 3 of 23    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23)
{{{{Even if he has been taking a woman out for three months, there should be no expectation that a woman will pay him back with her body. Period.}}

I would never date a man for 3 months if I was not into him. That would be leading him on and its not a nice thing to do. It is a waste of time for both parties. Waiting 3 months to have sex... just crazy. Men and women date to have fun and have SEX with each other. Hopefully, it turns into a LTR and sometimes it doesn't. Dating should be fun and exciting........ All these rules are silly.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 100
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 7:14:11 AM

A woman can't always be sure why a guy want's to get her alone. He mayhave a real rage towards women who don't meet his idea of what they should be.


This is one of the few "truths" I have read on this forum. And what's scarier about the situation of which the poster speaks is that the man wasn't someone from a dating site, but a man with whom the woman had mutual friends.


I have made a man wait two months, seeing him on average twice per week.


Control, control, controlling! I agree, OP, with you on this.

"Making" is the key word there. Obviously, the poster knew the man wanted sex but "made" him wait--not that she "wanted" to wait, but a willful "I made someone do my bidding."


That is the key thing for me: wanting enough time together to know if we would be seeing each other long term.


It may be the key for you, but not for everyone. So the woman MAKES the man wait for two months, they have sex, and it is lousy. While some people might settle for a partner who is ok in other aspects but is not good in bed, I won't. I did--for 25 years, and history will not repeat itself. And by the way, I MADE him wait for three years, until I had the wedding band on my finger. Of course, I was 17 when I met him and 20 when we married, so I was just a trifle immature.

But back to the OP's first post: why are and why should women be anger or surprised when a man whom they have been dating expects or wants sex? Again, women still have the right to say "no" (barring the crazies will tie her to a bed). A woman who would be surprised is inappropriately naive.

Also, some men might whine about the wining and dining and their expectations, but I think other men see the wining/dining as a sign of "hey, I really like you and desire you and this is how I am demonstrating it." The show of continued attention is a compliment. Men often show their needs, desires, affections, etc., differently from women.

As far as projecting sex appeal--whether it is deliberate or unconscious, it is there in the way we dress and present ourselves. I want men to find me sexy and appealing, and I would be lying if I said otherwise. However, that does not mean that every man who finds me such is appealing to me, and no amount of wining and dining will accomplish what personality, attractiveness, and brains will accomplish.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 101
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 7:24:06 AM
Just an observation that doesn't entirely make sense to me. There are women who have stated they will make the man wait until they are sure they are worthy of a long term relationship and that sometimes it's been as much as two months and sometimes a shorter waiting period. The part that doesn't make sense is, whatever period of time the woman has made the guy wait until they've determined that he is worthy of a long term relationship are people who have had "many" relationships (at least that is what is gathered by stating there have been varying timeS). Obviously then, that waiting period was not a determining factor of whether the guy was worthy of a ltr because those women who have stated that are not in a ltr. It sounds like a faulty barometer. Then again, perhaps their definition of a lrt is different than mine. I dunno, I suppose the other possibility was that the guys wound up being ltr material, the woman had sex with him but it was later discovered he couldn't pound a nail in two strokes and it was a turn off, or perhaps any of his other pounding abilities sucked, even if he could look down and see his dangly bits. There is yet another possibility why all this waiting to have sex seemed like a good idea to the woman but there's no ltr at the end of it all: she got to know him but when he got to know her, he got tired of her prima dona attitude and left.
 makeba
Joined: 9/28/2009
Msg: 106
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 10:23:14 AM
Interesting post so far. I cannot believe the amount of hypocrisy being displayed here by some of my fellow women. Who enters into a relationship without expectation of sex? And in any case if there a definite time period .. then at what point does "dating" turns into (or qualifies to be called) a "relationship"? How many dates does this entails? If a man approaches you here on POF and says he wants to have a relationship with you with no expectation of sex Im sure none of these women will go for it.

So you make a man wait 2 months and that means he wants to stick around? Thats absolutely not true, total BS.
Men are just as wise as women think they are. You tell a guy " I want to get to know you before x-y-z" ... and sure, he'll put on a show for you. And in most cases, after the x-y-z, they are OUT... because they realize the woman is just a control freak (or they take it as winning the challenge). Sex is a natural expectation. Will any of us women just wine and dine a man just for the heck of it? For all those who claimed to have made the man wait... well, where are these men now? They are gone.

Its so despicable to hear women trying to use our coochies as some sort of reward. The truth is, women crave for sex just as much as men. We just have a better handle on it - controlling and displaying our urges. If I let a man dine and wine me for 2-3 months, I think he is entitled to some payback. I WILL NOT fault him for expecting some SEX. If I have no intention of that, then the wine and dine sessions doesn't go past the second one (at that point I will pay for my part or even aLL). I am not one to lead someone on.

As a woman, if I cook meals for a man, pamper him etc, I expect that he at least show some appreciation - thanks, hugs, kisses, compliments etc. I will certainly be offended if he turns round and tell me I have a "sense of entitlement" to expect that.

Lets get real here. Men are always going to be MEN and women are always going to be WOMEN! Men seek women in the hopes of SEX and maybe a relationship...... Women seek men in the hopes of a relationship and maybe SEX. LEts find a middle ground and stop demonizing the other gender. Just my 2cents!!
 _Icon_
Joined: 5/18/2008
Msg: 107
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 10:31:20 AM

Women will ALWAYS usually be the weaker sex physically. If someone isn't giving a woman a good read on who he really is. she can just very well lose something besides her dignity. Watching the news. both local and national really tells me there's a lot of crazy fvcks out there. The economy is causing more stress, which in turn is a trigger for more sociopaths. The last thing I want is for a casual encounter to go bad and I'M the one who ends up on the 6pm news. A woman can't always be sure why a guy want's to get her alone. He mayhave a real rage towards women who don't meet his idea of what they should be.


Not to mention that being penetrated is very, very personal and carries greater risk for women. Women have always carried that burden.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 108
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 10:50:13 AM

Whether a woman is aware, or cares that she's dressing that way or not, she's giving herself more advertising. She should be aware that she may be sending out signals that appeal to some men, just by breathing.

If we don't want to offer, in our own time and conditions, or at all, what we have on display, then it might be a good time to re think what OTHERS MIGHT THINK that we are offering

to me this sounds like just another lame attempt to justify a man's sexual expectations/aggressiveness with the old "she was asking for it" lameass horseshit?

Hmmm...note to self. Next time you go to meet someone from internet dating site, be sure to bring money to pay for your own coffee, wear a body cast and don't breathe,lest you create a sense of entitlement to sex.
This is all just getting too damn weird. BTW, I see the mods have closed the thread that inspired this one.
Cindy O
 bikeman1467
Joined: 9/22/2009
Msg: 109
view profile
History
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 11:00:07 AM
Um, if men or women are NOT having consensual sex, there is something wrong with the picture--prosecution by the law wrong. Why would ANYONE have sex that is not mutually satisfying? Once, maybe twice, to see if it gets better, but more than that, get a new partner.
I think I used the word "consensual" in the wrong context. What I mean is that my partners and I have always been on the same page intellectually, spiritually, emotionally, AND physically at the moment we have decided to have sex for the first time. If a man and a woman invest properly in their relationship before having sex, naturally the sex is mutually satisfying. At least it's been that way with me. I meant consensual in the sense that there are concurrent levels of intimacy that were built, one of which is physical intimacy.

Which is what I don't understand when a woman claims she habitually likes to have her man "wait" a certain amount of specified time before she commits herself to physical acts of intimacy. Personally I'm not going to invest in a relationship equally on an emotional, intellectual, and/or spiritual level if I sense that a woman is withholding on the physical side. That to me shows a lack of balance that I seek in romantic relationships. It's manipulative. Granted a lady can do whatever she wants--a woman withholding the physical side for whatever reason generally will have a difficult entering into a solid relationship. Her best means to find a solid relationship is to put herself out there to a great number of men. This is what lots of guys are finding non-plussing in this thread--the woman puts herself out there somewhat physically, but it doesn't match what she expects from the guy emotionally, intellectually, or spiritually.

Anyhoo, go on with your senseless gender bashing if that's your axe to grind.

If a man approaches you here on POF and says he wants to have a relationship with you with no expectation of sex Im sure none of these women will go for it.
Well that's the Catch-22 for guys; much like the Catch-22 for women is they are viewed by many men AND women as sluts if they value physical closeness along with all of the other relationship goodies.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 110
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 11:14:28 AM
Way to go Makeba! I liked your post.

You don't have to invest in a relationship to have mutually satisfying sex. Commitment to one does make it much better as we all know. I'm certainly not going to invest any time into a relationship where a guy isn't going to give it up. I don't expect men to either.
 grizzelda
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 112
view profile
History
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 11:31:29 AM



For all those who claimed to have made the man wait... well, where are these men now? They are gone.


Since when is deciding if you are interested enough in a person before having sex controlling? How does that translate into "making him wait"? I think part of the confusion is that many men will have absolutely no problem having sex with any women they find attractive immediately, where as quite a few women arent all that keen on having sex with a man they just met. So to these males, these women are controlling them with sex. When the reality is most likely that these women are making sure that their needs and wants are met in order to have sex, just like the men are. No one is forcing men to go out and have sex with women they arent attracted to, but there seems to be this attitude that women should and if they dont they are controlling or using their coochies as a reward.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 113
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 11:58:23 AM
Well then I guess I think way too much like a guy when it comes to a lot of things at this point in life. The shoe can be on the other foot and still have a good fit...

To Gwen- Ha ha ha ha! I guess I need to leave the larger in the pants ones alone too!
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 114
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 12:14:14 PM

How does that translate into "making him wait"?


The references to "making" a man wait are specific to a poster who said that's what she does or has done. But then, she also said that she doesn't always make a man wait--go figure. I "make" my cat be still so I can give her medicine; I used to "make" my kids do their chores--if "make" is put into the equation, it changes the waiting experience.


to me this sounds like just another lame attempt to justify a man's sexual expectations/aggressiveness with the old "she was asking for it" lameass horseshit?


Ladyc4, you might find a woman who support the rights of women more than me, but I am not sure where you will find her. You might find a woman who defends women and deplores the negative stereotypes put upon more, but I am ardent in that area.

However, saying that women advertise by the way they dress or if they dress provocatively, showing cleavage and/or leg, is not sexist NOR does it imply the old lameass excuse men have used for sexual aggressiveness. Men AND women are responsible for their actions, and while it is acceptable for a man to respond to the advertising, it is never acceptable for him to partake of the "goods" without explicit approval and participation from the woman.

I met a man for lunch, but because I wore a tank top, it was NOT an invitation for him to grab me as we walked down the sidewalk and kiss me forcibly. If he was lameass enough not to read my body language, that was his fault, not mine--regardless of what I was wearing.


What I mean is that my partners and I have always been on the same page intellectually, spiritually, emotionally, AND physically at the moment we have decided to have sex for the first time.


Wow! Lucky you to meet so many women with whom you jibe on so many levels! I guess I should leave the hard bodied 22 year old guys alone and seek out the intellectually, spiritually and emotionally equipped men!

Crap, I'm pagan--not many men whom I can bond with on the spiritual level. Guess I need to forego sex the rest of my life.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 115
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 12:26:54 PM

The old...she was asking for WHAT ? Are you implying sex, or are you implying rape ? And let me be clear that this thread is about Adult CONSENTUAL SEX. I NEVER condone rape.
I never said you did.
You were the one who used the word "advertising"...which suggests the marketing of a product or service. It sounds like you are saying that any woman who makes a modicum of effort with her appearance is "advertising", so she should be prepared when a man expects sex in return for a $20 dinner, or a couple of $3 drinks...whatever.
And lets examine "consentual"...in the broadest sense, anything that isn't consentual, or that involves a person below the age of consent, IS rape.

But there's a whole little subset where women have sex with men because he acted like he was owed it, because he argued that to refuse sex was old fashioned or silly, because he implied that sex would lead to subsequent dates, that she subconsciously MUST "want it" because of the length of time she's been unpartnered or yep, even "the way you are dressed." While technically it may be consentual, the fact that the man pressured the woman takes away from it.
in fact the point of this thread

My opinion is that any woman who's surprised, and angry that a man who's been wining and dining her for awhile might likely anticipate having sex with her, isn't living in the real world for this date and age.

is nothing but a pressure tactic being applied to all female readers and participants in the thread. "She isn't living in the real world".
Look, we GET that when a man asks us out, Willy's in the mix. What surprises and angers women is when men PRESSURE for intimacy on a short timetable,and use BS like "you aren't living in the real world"..."you are dressed in a manner that invites sexual thoughts, so you must want sex NOW."
Will you gentlemen kindly give us credit, that most of us would not have accepted a date with you unless we felt that at some point, having sex with you wouldn't turn our stomachs? Yeah yeah don't give me the "poor weinie" story of women who just date to get out of the house and get free meals. That's almost as insulting as women implying that anything with a penis is a potential rapist, because some men with penises DO rape.
Sex should not be something a woman "gives" a man...sex should be something a man and woman share willingly, because they care about each other, or even just because they both think it would feel good. But it should be COMPLETELY willing, not as a result of a guilt trip or a lecture on "the real world" or a veiled threat to "find a more responsive woman". We do LIKE sex. But there are a lot of considerations for a woman that I doubt men can really comprehend simply because they are NOT women.
My guess would be that 98% of women interested in DATING know that sexual interest is a very significant factor in being asked for a date. Women that are surprised and/or angry usually aren't so much upset about the man wanting sex, as they are at attempts to pressure or coerce before she feels comfortable that the act is PART of a developing relationship, not the main event(or only event). These forums are full of threads from women who were wined,dined, doggedly pursued until sexual intimacy occurred, then the guy 'poofed'. We KNOW that sometimes it's just about the pursuit, or sex reveals an incompatiblity. We know that sometimes men lose interest in a woman once she's had sex with him,that's just one of life's little mysteries. But if men think that posting lectures in internet forums is going to cause women to STOP taking a little time to consider whether the ride is going to be worth the fall that may occur, I think THEY are the ones that" aren't living in the real world."
Don't get me wrong, I love men, I love sex. But so many men seem SOO hung up on the fear that they aren't going to get sex, or enough sex, or that they will have to pay too high a price for loving consentual sex with a committed partner,that an emotionally stable, self assured woman just can't help wondering what she might be letting herself in for.
Cindy O
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 116
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 12:38:06 PM

met a man for lunch, but because I wore a tank top, it was NOT an invitation for him to grab me as we walked down the sidewalk and kiss me forcibly. If he was lameass enough not to read my body language, that was his fault, not mine--regardless of what I was wearing.

Of course it was his fault, and that was my whole point. A post mentioned that perhaps even her BREATHING might cause a man to be strongly drawn to a woman. So what, if we are even BREATHING, it's OK for a man to ask us out and expect sex?
So what did the gentleman get for lunch? A knuckle sandwich? A kick in the crotch?
Cindy O
 bikeman1467
Joined: 9/22/2009
Msg: 117
view profile
History
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 12:42:20 PM

Wow! Lucky you to meet so many women with whom you jibe on so many levels!
Actually it hasn't been that many; personally I believe in quality over quantity. The point is if a guy likes a woman, if she likes him, and he puts time into getting to know her personality, what makes her tick, what she likes to do etc., when it gets to having sex it's really a natural progression where two people APPROACH EACH OTHER, not one-sided PUA moves and queenie hold-out manipulations like I see many folks proposing in these forums.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 118
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 12:49:06 PM
Hey ladies I'm sorry to say this but...
I wear tight fitting sexy clothes because I just love men.
I wear low cut tops on dates hoping I'll get grabbed!
I wear sexy under ware with the intent of showing it off!
If you dress sexy don't blame a man for thinking your hot.
I don't believe any man has the right to grab any woman unless she wants him to.
BUT lets be real. Dress conservative and it is more likely you will be treated that way.
!
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 119
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 12:54:37 PM
Interesting
<div class="quote">BUT lets be real. Dress conservative and it is more likely you will be treated that way.

I agree with much of what this poster has stated in some of her other posts here, however, I do disagree with this one. I don't let it all hang out, am very sexual/sensual, dress conservatively and have never had a problem attracting men who are as sexual/sensual as I am. To dress a certain way, either provocatively or conservatively, can definitely be false advertising...if advertising is your intention.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 120
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 12:55:05 PM

The point is if a guy likes a woman, if she likes him, and he puts time into getting to know her personality, what makes her tick, what she likes to do etc., when it gets to having sex it's really a natural progression where two people APPROACH EACH OTHER, not one-sided PUA moves and queenie hold-out manipulations like I see many folks proposing in these forums.

Yes! Why is this so difficult to grasp, people! And the 2 people approach each other because they WANT TO, not because they feel entitled or because of fear that the interaction will stop if sex is not provided. And I think that part of wanting to, for the average woman, is a feeling that she's seen as a person, not just a goal to be scored,and that there's a reasonable expectation that the guy isn't going to vanish.
In fact here's a sh*t stirring observation; Guys, if she jumps in the sack with you right away, maybe she's just looking to get an itch scratched and doesn't CARE if you disappear. Or she's learned to not get overly invested in an involvement until it's very clear that the guy is about a real relationship,not just no strings sex.
Cindy O
 makeba
Joined: 9/28/2009
Msg: 121
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 1:08:35 PM
Please please please..!!!
Guys do NOT attach so much importance to SEX as we women do. YES they always want sex but it is NOT what defines a relationship to them ... and neither do they see it as the ultimate prize. If so all hookers and sluts will be happily married/coupled.
Maybe we women should stop using SEX as the BIG prize guys seek. The minute a woman stop making a big deal out of SEX, the less the guy wants it and the more he focuses on other important stuff like building a relationship (or NOT). I feel men are more likely to want someone who will be their buddy, cook, clean, play with, support them, appreciate them (even if they ain't doing sh!t), not nagging them day and night etc... So many married women/couples confess that the sex drive drops off considerably after the dating period. The only thing that usually keep the guys around are the above niceties.

No I am not saying give it away to every man you meet. Just stop making it as the ultimate prize.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 123
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 1:14:21 PM
You don't have to agree, and dressing conservatively doesn't mean a woman doesn't attract sexual/sensual men. The point I am trying to make is we do advertise (whether we want to or not) by what we wear.


Rock man~ Sorry for your loss. Both the men I loved and remained faithful to in long term relations have passed due to terminal illness. I went four years without sex before my fiance passed in Sept. 07.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 124
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:35:11 PM

Actually it hasn't been that many; personally I believe in quality over quantity.


Methinks that you cannot judge the quality of sex for other people!


I wear tight fitting sexy clothes because I just love men.
I wear low cut tops on dates hoping I'll get grabbed!
I wear sexy under ware with the intent of showing it off!
If you dress sexy don't blame a man for thinking your hot.


There is sexy, and then there is sexy. I can wear a little black dress and get more compliments on how I look that if I were to wear something much more revealing. Sexy is also an attitude, and the appeal of the attitude can vary from person to person.

Often, a distinction is made between sex and making love--sometimes, sex is just sex. We are all individuals, and as with what makes "sexy" sexy, our views on sex differ.

I find it interesting that the people who seem to view sex as an act reserved for two committed people are the ones who seem to be the most judgmental.
 Arabianangel
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 125
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:39:03 PM

Walking in the wrong end of town or dressing skimply is no defense in a sexual assault case yet its possible motivation. Dress like Hillary Clinton not Lil Kim or Rihanna lately


Rape is not motivated by sex; it's motivated by control and power. Would you ask a child to cover herself so the sick pedophile is not "motivated"???....
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 126
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:49:54 PM

Walking in the wrong end of town or dressing skimply is no defense in a sexual assault case

I for one will dress how I want to dress and walk where I want to walk. Possession of a vagina does not make me a 2nd class citizen. The way I dress and carry myself gives NO ONE the right to touch me without permission or make assumptions about my personal sexual standards. I do not have a female public figure I emulate in dress, and if I did, none of the fine ladies you mention would be it. Since I have a build more along the lines of Aretha or Wynnona...(and ONLY Aretha could have pulled off that HAT!) I guess I'll dress according to my own lights.
Good point about sex crimes being about things other than sex. I suppose that dressing in something other than plate armor or a birkah COULD be a factor in acquaintance/date rape, but it shouldn't be.
Cindy O
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 127
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 3:08:38 PM

I find it interesting that the people who seem to view sex as an act reserved for two committed people are the ones who seem to be the most judgmental.

Ideally, that would be the gold standard. However, there is nothing wrong with 2 genuinely consenting adult, or even a GROUP of consenting adults having sport sex, as long as it's done responsibly.
But attempting to coerce sex with guilt trips, lectures, hints that "some other women would be glad to" is NOT appropriate.
For the OP
Yes we know that men ask women out because they want to have sex with them. When you see a situation where a woman is angry or surprised, it's usually because some damn fool let his d*ck over ride his BRAIN and started pressuring or being an absolute jerk about the subject.
Cindy O
 Arabianangel
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 128
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 3:21:30 PM

If you puts on like a stripper in ghetto and your friend in a traditional muslim dress in a suburb who is likely to be raped?


Once again you are putting the onus on the woman. What bit do you not understand that sex has NOTHING to do with rape? I suggest you answer my initial question.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 130
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/15/2009 4:09:23 PM
On my list it is on the top ten requirements. I will not have a relationship with a man that does not absolutely love sex. I value the ability to make friends and family welcome in my homes and I am not a material person. I make an effort to get to know the men I choose to date and develop a friendship. A sexual relationship is a big factor in it all FOR ME. If a man cannot satisfy my needs and desires in the bedroom, we don't need to be together.
BOTTOM LINE. Oh and for the fellow Christians out there read Romans chapter five-
It's about judging one another- Thanks you for your post once again Gwendolyn.
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