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 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 169
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That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal Page 5 of 23    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23)
No, he's not saying that at all. He's saying that a lot of women have a veritable buffet of qualities that you have to have to even be considered. Hell read some profiles, FAR more women i read have a shopping list of requirements to be considered as a beau.

It's a difference between putting yourself out there to be known by the other and to know them, or being constantly worried if you are on a checklist of deal breakers.

He's referring to women that aren't getting to know him, they are just making sure he fits their shopping list.

And YOU can't expect a man to ENJOY making sure he dodges every random deal breaker landmine before he encounters one of the BIGGEST deal breakers, SEX.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 170
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/16/2009 11:00:29 AM
^^^That was my next question - how long is the time frame you're referencing? If it's six months, then we agree.

I don't want to get involved if there's no consistent sex as it's one of my main reasons, so I tend to test drive anywhere from one month to two - I can't bother further with a man if he's not good in bed, and I can't move forward if I don't know this. In my relationships, the men usually "put out", not me. But that's me - and not all are like me.

However, I believe that the two particular people dating have a unique situation in that if a guy likes a girl and she wants to wait six months, if he's right for her this won't bother him. Vice versa - if he wants to wait a certain amount of time and she's right for him she'll be fine with it.

By the same token if a woman wants to have sex after a week, and he's ok with that - same deal.

P.S. I know in the first 8 minutes of meeting a guy online, or before I go on a date with a guy I meet offline if I am attracted, so that's not relavant in my case.
 grizzelda
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 171
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That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/16/2009 11:41:26 AM

There it is; women know at first sight who they like and who they don't. Men need to take heed and understand that if they have been dating for a while and nothing is happening, then more than likely the woman isn't into them and they need to move on.


No, what men need to take heed is the fact that since she is still seeing you, chances are actually pretty good that there is a future because that door hasnt closed yet..
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 176
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/16/2009 12:06:05 PM
So true Sunkissd-
I'll have to agree with Silk Heat though on many issues. I know when I like a guy well before our FIRST date and will tell him. SECOND date I have better be getting some and if he doesn't want to give it up (which I have been on that end because they want more) I will never return the call. Period. More takes time for me and always involves SEX. That's just me and I do enjoy my several night stands at 45. Some is worth a few times around...
I am what I am. My friends say I think to much like a guy. Maybe that's because I too have my traumas... Like the two men I ever loved passing... We all have our scars.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 177
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/16/2009 12:18:23 PM
Even then the time frame is relevant only to context as situations change. What if through jobs and distance a pragmatic style of dating is not possible?

I can't personally say as I don't tend to date guys who aren't local, but I would imagine that time would be relevant to the amount of time you spend together and learn about each other. But since you're asking, are you saying that time is time to you no matter how much you know a person? Cause that sort of goes back to the whole "making me wait" thing ,where I'd have to say don't date women who are workaholics or don't live near you (or both).

There it is; women know at first sight who they like and who they don't. Men need to take heed and understand that if they have been dating for a while and nothing is happening, then more than likely the woman isn't into them and they need to move on.

1. Women don't tend to spend time with a guy for no reason...she either sees you as a friend (and you've been notified but choose not to deal with it and think it will change) or she sees you as a man she wants to date and will sleep with you once she finds out what she needs to know (in which case there may not be sex but there IS physical sign of interest - hand holding, hugging, kissing, close proximity, etc). Women don't date men they don't have any interest in or like as a person to kill time.

2. If you're worried about spending money on a woman who isn't interested, OP - make sure you let all women know up front that you prefer dutch before a relationship takes hold because you've been burned before my women who have taken advantage (as I assume you must have been in order to post this topic). From there women will make a decision based on being informed.

2a. Trust me, women aren't hungry enough to sit through a dinner with a man she has no interest in - most of us would rather eat Ramen noodles at home alone (at least the company is good, and we don't have to dress up). There aren't many guys out there charming enough to tolerate for more than a half hour that will justify a free meal - regardless of what's on the menu.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 178
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/16/2009 12:31:42 PM
I don't know about that... I have found many guys charming enough to share a meal with (no matter who is or isn't paying) that I wouldn't date or have sex with. It's always fun to enjoy a meal with company.
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 179
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/16/2009 12:49:27 PM

^^^Capitano, if you view a woman wanting to know you well enough to sleep with you as hoop jumping, then I guess that's pretty much the bottom line.


You've never dated many women, have you?

YOU may be one of the most upfront women out there and I don't doubt it from your posting record, but MANY women have a mental checklist that is rather extensive. This list can be quite rigid in most cases.


So now we're back to "pay for it".


Not sure how you got that from my posts, but you will interpret as you will.

For the record, I don't date at all.

When I did date, I always picked up the tab except when the woman insisted, in which case I knew that there would likely not be another date if I asked her out.


Many times the women don't care who you are or what you're about - which should work well.


I would think this is the majority, which really is fine with me. I really don't care to know the majority of women either.


 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 180
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/16/2009 1:48:45 PM

I don't know about that... I have found many guys charming enough to share a meal with (no matter who is or isn't paying) that I wouldn't date or have sex with. It's always fun to enjoy a meal with company.

Yes, but you wouldn't sit through a dinner with a man you have no interest in at all romantic or otherwise. I meant entirely. As in the thought of him makes you want to eat broken glass. As I said earlier in the post a woman will spend time with a man she considers a friend, but usually he's ignoring signs that he is such.

What I am saying is each situation is unique and therefore time is relevant only in context. I think as suggested by another in a prior post, is chemistry is what is important here. So for the original op if you are a guy, and there is no chemistry, you must accept that and move on as no more future dates will change that. I think the whole "making me wait" thing is the wrong way to put this issue.

I actually took that from something you said earlier along the lines of "one night stands dont have to wait, but relationship guys do."

Sure some women do date men to get nice meals gifts etc, and some men date women just to get sex. That is reality. Perhaps you don't, but if we are talking about this in general we have to look at all aspects.

Men who date to impress and get sex tend to flash money which sort of makes them responsible for what they attract. Women who date for nice meals tend not to pick up a check or tend to put a huge stipulation on where they expect to be taken, etc. There are signs if you want to avoid it.

We are just discussing a topic; so I am trying to remain as objective as one can be.

That's fabulous. I was addressing the OP there, actually but ok.

To address this personally, I have had to decided that certain women were not attracted to me and had to accept that reality. It stings and then I moved on, but as a man I can tell you that signs of affection and eventually sex are important if you want to keep us around. We can't read your minds, and if it isn't leading anywhere and you think we understand that you are just waiting to feel comfortable; we don't. I take that as a sure sign you aren't interested. The whole dutch thing is not really an issue to me, but you should at least offer. I know that makes me feel better when a woman does.

The problem with hoping she'll offer is that the check comes before you know what you're dealing with. It's better to not date her at all if she isn't going to offer. And P.S. a lot of women offer BECAUSE they aren't interested, so I'm not sure what that really tells you. I've called a waitress back and made a point in telling her to please recalculate an order on separate checks to be sure a guy wasn't confused. The bottom line is if you don't want to waste money, go in prepared not to. If that's not the issue, then disregard what I said, and be prepared to spend some money that won't bring you a return on your investment.

Objectively this little "game" plays itself out in many ways, and there are users and abuser on both sides. So there are pitfalls to avoid and be weary of.

Yep, and truthfully most of it can be avoided by screening properly and getting to know the person better. No bad can come from taking some time and feeling someone out a bit more, IMO. Most things can come to light in a certain amount of time.

Sure some woman are; I know some woman that do just that. Some guys are suckers and try to flash their way into the bedroom, and there are women there to take advantage of that. So guess this issue arrives from people being disingenuous.

Well, that goes back to the argument about accepting drinks from men in a bar. There are women who look for men to take drinks from, but whenever there's a market for something, there will always be people that will want to take advantage of that. Men think women shouldn't take drinks from men they don't have interest in, but that's an unrealistic thought - they'll never get all women to follow this rule. It's better not to be a guy that buys drinks to get to know women if you really don't want it to happen to you.

When you have a problem with being taken advantage of or have a fear of it - it's on you to take steps to prevent it.
 PiggyT
Joined: 9/14/2009
Msg: 181
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/16/2009 1:59:37 PM

Total cost= $100-200


To find out she has man-gear = PRICELESS.


This thread is just asinine for the most part.

People look to add meaning to every little thing. We need to have everything in it's little place (no wonder IKEA does so well eh?)

Sex appeal is based on 2 parties. One has to find the other sexy for it to be "called" sex appeal. A buddy and I were out one night and I saw a woman that I thought had incredible sex appeal, but my buddy didn't. Pretty simple really

As for paying and fuking and whatnot... Just be cool. Be real. Be upfront and genuine. It works! If it doesn't then there is nothing lost.

More people on these forums need to be out dating and doing the nasty.... instead of being nasty in here and arguing over semantics.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 183
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/16/2009 3:35:46 PM
WOO HOO on the dating and doing the nasty!!! That's my kind of thinking...
I just went out for an early dinner and had a BLAST! I'm part of the wedding party tomorrow for a good friend so I ended it early to do the chick thing... or I'd be doing him!

Oh and my girls do live vicariously through my escapades.
 startle
Joined: 7/22/2008
Msg: 184
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/16/2009 3:57:32 PM
the idea of men and women dating...with him paying for everything..and it never leads to sex is a picture of a woman using a man...to use std's as an excuse is just that...if a woman has no interest in ever having sex...and remember there is such a thing as a condom...because of std's she should say so...but she wouldn't because she knows she would be dateless...
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 186
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/16/2009 5:55:30 PM
Here's to RENTALS! I'll pay for a guys meal!
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 189
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/16/2009 7:08:51 PM
Thank you! I know he's out there some place and I will find him. I have faith in that.
Both my long term life loves/relationships were a direct result of first date sex. We knew what we liked and wanted even from then.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 190
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That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/16/2009 8:04:15 PM
[Well, if the choice was really only up to the guy, of course he'd bang every woman he takes out for dinner........ men rarely take women they don't want to bang out to dinner..]

Ah, but I believe that REAL men do! I am sorry if you disagree, but I guess I have still have faith that people want to take some time to get to know to know someone before sharing such a personal part of themself. Physical attractiveness may warm the loins, but if we can't have a conversation over dinner, I have no desire to attempt pillow talk.... and, just for the record...

[To clarify for you : I don't date for sex. I don't take a woman out for dinner, etc, for sex.]

This quote is attributable to a man! If what you say is true, then he is a liar. If all men are liars, then what is the point of seeking a relationship at all? Let's face it, sex is easy. We (the majority, at least) could have sex every day, if that is all we wanted. That is not to say that we all don't want be found sexually attractive, or that sex isn't important, but for most of us there needs to be more than sex. The same men who bang anyone they take out to dinner are the men who call the women they sleep with sluts for having slept with them. They remain alone.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 193
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/17/2009 5:21:35 AM

Margo64 stated, and again confirmed that she won't wait to have sex with a man on the 3 rd date. This is a reverse sexual role, from what most of us have known.

But how many men and women secretly admire her for clearly stating what she believes sexually, and what she will not accept ?

And is she also refusing to accept the age old hypocracy that if a man does it sexually, it's okay, but if a woman doesn't, society looks down on the woman for the same exact thing?


That's really not anything new. I felt the same way in college. It's called freedom of choice and Margo is not alone in her thinking where SHE chooses what she wants - it's not because she allows herself to be coerced or manipulated and has no expectations beyond the evening. It doesn't always work very well for many women emotionally. It depends on where a woman is in her life.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 195
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/17/2009 7:55:20 AM

(big pacific) It's a difference between putting yourself out there to be known by the other and to know them, or being constantly worried if you are on a checklist of deal breakers.


You're very right.

Which is why I just behave as my obnoxious, ornery self all the time, and if it sets off some neurotic person's* "Eee!" trigger -- well, then, bullet dodged!

Barry the Orc

*I specified gender-neutral, because men (with whom I do NOT form romantic attachements!) get the full-on obnoxious Barry just as much as any and all women. I'm an equal-opportunity A-hole, after all...
 19justice78
Joined: 7/23/2008
Msg: 196
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That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/17/2009 8:00:03 AM
I solve the whole problem with always paying my own way.... I owe no one unless I choose to.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 198
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/17/2009 8:23:20 AM
I know of many close female friends around the globe of ours that feel the same way I do. If a man cannot give us what we want and need in the bedroom then why invest the time into a doomed relationship. If a man doesn't "fit" sexually I will know not to waste his time let alone mine. In the quest for finding a significant other I'm going to try on the "fit". Therefore to us we have SEX first in the hopes of a RELATIONSHIP.
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 200
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/17/2009 8:45:00 AM


Well, if the choice was really only up to the guy, of course he'd bang every woman he takes out for dinner........ men rarely take women they don't want to bang out to dinner..]


Ah, but I believe that REAL men do! I am sorry if you disagree, but I guess I have still have faith that people want to take some time to get to know to know someone before sharing such a personal part of themself. Physical attractiveness may warm the loins, but if we can't have a conversation over dinner, I have no desire to attempt pillow talk.... and, just for the record...


Oh stop with the goofy "REAL" men bullshit. That is such a ridiculous term.

Most men DO understand that time is needed to get a woman into bed or a relationship, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to bang her the first time he sees her.

Are you the sort of woman who believes that most of her male "friends" wouldn't bang her if they had the opportunity? Just 'cause YOU see them as "just friends" doesn't mean they see you the same way.

Besides that, most men can't hear a thing you say until after they've seen you naked....


Awwwww Capitano I tried to take a picture but I kept getting blinded by the flash ...


Hmmmm.... not sure how that works, but it reminds me of a girlfriend I had one time...

.... she kept trying to take pictures of HER ass and I kept coming up in the picture....

I'm still not sure why she found that so funny. People she showed the pics to laughed as well. I dunno....



Or maybe a portrait. Do you think you might be able to find somebody to paint your ass?


I have a beret, edible body paint and some nice sable brushes. I'll paint her ass.

 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 201
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/17/2009 9:05:05 AM
I solve the whole problem with always paying my own way.... I owe no one unless I choose to.

Exactly - in fact, it's default for me. As is driving myself there, and finding my way home. If you always cover what you ate/drink/did, there's no confusion about what you're expected to do.

That's a strawman.
To say that women won't go out for an evening with a man she has zero interest in sexually, is completely fallacious.
I'm a guy, and I get invited out by women who I'm friends with, and date strictly platonically, even with the understanding that we're just friends, but that we both find
each other sexually attractive, to one another.
Why wouldn't I?

As I explained to someone else who seemed to miss this too (Msg 238), I never said sexually - I said in general. I typed a whole other paragraph about friendship. Some men don't realize it's friendship - you seem to understand it is and it's no problem for you, so basically your response isn't valid. Neither is a woman who takes you out and pays as a friend. Most men I know don't complain about women they know and like to spend time with as friends picking up the tab for a meal.

AGAIN....let me make this clearer (I guess "like" is being construed as "want to bang" so I'll give more detail). A woman usually isn't hungry enough to sit thru a whole dinner with a man she wants nothing to do with (and I mean as in he's paying so I'll go). As in not friends, not a date, not anything. I have a lot of male friends, that has nothing to do with what I said. A lot of men think a woman would continue to accept dinners from a guy she has no interest in in any form for months.

If a woman meets a guy, doesn't know him enough to be friends, and doesn't really like his personality and has no attraction to him, she won't accept a dinner from him just to get a free meal.

Hopefully that's clear enough to understand?
 flowerforce
Joined: 9/6/2006
Msg: 202
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/17/2009 9:37:56 AM
Beach,
A lot of women on this post are stating what they want sexually. They just happen to have a differing point of view from Margo's .I have no interest in being critical about anyone's (men's or women's) choice in terms of their sexual behavior. To each his/her own. But what I do not get is other women are sating they want to have an emotional connection with a fellow before they are sexual with him. That is also saying what she wants sexually and being willing to act on it. We all have choices and need to take responsibility for those choices. If a fellow wants and or demands sex because he has wined and dined a woman and she says no because she needs/wants to take her time and he does not then they are not a good match. End of story. Neither person is wrong, bad or awful. They have differing viwepoints and values. However no one ( man or woman ) has the right to expect sex from another no matter what the cost of dinner is You can substitute other activities in there as well. I do not live by society's values. I live by the values I have chosen for myself mostly from my life experience and years of self examination. All choices have consequences. At my time of life I choose not to be pushed-guilted or coursed into sex by someone I do not have a deeply caring relationship with. Because of this choice there have been men who have walked away. No loss in my book but no harn done either. Others choose differently. All choices are valid.

 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 203
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/17/2009 11:09:06 AM

What is clear is that there is always a bias to your portrayal of women as being "doelike" and navigating in a world of predatory men, which has some truth to it.
The parts you always seem to leave out, is that women are not the angels that you would like us all to believe.

You must have the wrong poster. My view of women isn't doelike at all, it's more like they're aware of men but don't care as much as a lot of men would like to think. I also don't see predators as gender specific. There are morons and those who prey on morons in both categories.

There are in fact many attention whores out there, who will feign interest in a man so that they go out for a "nice time" and avoid sitting at home bored, yet another night.

Yes, it's that kind of mentality - the one where men think they are more exciting than a night at home, that I try and address. Truth be told, many men are worse than a night at home alone...which was my point. It's getting to the point where eating at home or eating out alone and paying for it is can actually be more productive.

I have lots of women friends who WILL go out with a guy, simply because he was persistent, and it's better than staying home alone. They will string a guy along, until a "dreamier" guy finally comes out of the woodwork.

If we're going down this road I have to address the masses of men who beg women to give them a chance despite knowing they aren't her cup of tea. Are they not partly responsible if it ends up being a dinner where she's yawning a lot? In the first couple dates, women are either cold if they say no in 8 minutes or users if they stick it out to see if attraction will surface - there is NO middle ground here if she (shock of all shocks) still isn't interested after eating dinner with a guy.

Every meal a guy ever paid for for a woman in a restaurant who decided she wasn't interested IMO is labeled "wanting a free meal" as an afterthought. Let's not forget most of these guy probably made a big deal of saying "go out with me just once, you won't be disappointed" or something to that effect. Trust me I've heard it a lot myself. I don't care if a guy's upset if I say "yeah, it won't matter" back to a guy - but some women probably want to save feelings, or may really think he's worth spending the time with (go figure).

Sure, some people think they must be on a date every weekend night, including men, half of which are also on these dates. I have a lot of male friends who think being at home on a weekend night is the end of the world - and would pay for anyone to sit across from them in some restaurant - so women aren't the only ones who do this. Some women date just to date. I still don't believe that a woman would sit and eat dinner with men they can barely stand to look at by choice as a priority.

That's a more accurate picture of the dating landscape, than the one that you portray.

I don't portray anything - I just like to let men know that paying for dinner isn't worthy of a nobel prize. There are men here that think a lot of women do nothing but look for meals from strange men they don't like.

There ARE women "players' out there. Your bias is constantly ignoring or tremendously downplaying their existence to virtually nil.

There are no victims, only volunteers - for the men who fear spending money on a woman who's not interested....as I said many times before, address it up front. Declare that you won't date a woman who doesn't pay for her own stuff. Will you date less? Sure - but if you're serious about it, you won't care because you'd rather be single than in a position to be taken advantage of.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 204
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/17/2009 1:27:43 PM
Hey Divorced, broke, and bald... No Soup For You (til you eat your desert first)!!!
 Arabianangel
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 205
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/17/2009 4:03:02 PM
^^^^^^DBB shares enough sweetness with Margo that he'll give desert a miss.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 206
That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/17/2009 5:40:58 PM
I do enjoy your views Ms. Arabianangel...

At least one person on here did get to see my butt and tats on My Space and took the time to find them!!!
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