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 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 31
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History
Women on SubmarinesPage 2 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
"How is that done? Women getting themselves pregnant?"

On ships, apparently it's by osmosis from being surrounded by Seamen.

On the subject of all those raped women being liars...It might be said that all rapists lie as well. At least women have some recourse in the military, small as it might be. If they served in the mercenary forces like Blackwater, Republicans deem that they signed off on the right to be raped.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2009/10/16/notes101609.DTL&nl=fix
"The most repellant part is the 30 U.S. senators -- Republicans each and every one -- who just stepped forth to vote against the Franken amendment, essentially saying no, women should have no right to sue if they are sexually abused or gang raped, Halliburton and its ilk must be protected at all costs, and by the way we hereby welcome Satan into our rancid souls forevermore. God bless America.

Let us repeat, for clarity. Franken's amendment passed with a vote of 68-30. Meaning 30 U.S. senators voted against the elimination of the rape/sue clause. Meghan McCain, call your dad. He's one of them."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2009/10/16/notes101609.DTL&nl=fix#ixzz0UK7LlUKp
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 32
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History
Women on Submarines
Posted: 10/18/2009 4:13:34 PM
Yet, when the much maligned ACORN tries to "take down the Naiton" there is much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Mercenaries as speshsal. They represent Merican values. Fvck the whores who try to take our male jobs, they are all liars, tempting us poor victims on our ships, and taking down democracy as we know it by demanding equal right. To allow our mercenary forces to live in the standards of the 1600's it to acknowledge that women are scum, as per the repeated postings blaming the victims, vs. the perpetrators. You guys are sickos.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 33
Women on Submarines
Posted: 10/18/2009 6:32:56 PM
I understood what you were saying, I just don't see any proof in a quick bing search that women who get pregnant are automatically free of their duty to serve. I know of several mothers deployed RIGHT NOW--of course they're not preggers right now--but the point is, they're still in the AF and National Guard. So I don't quite believe what you say--that by dearth of prenancy a woman is kicked out, or allowed out (bold edit for dumbass below), of the military. I understand that you feel this is the case, and I understand that you feel it's unfair that men can't get pregnant and thereby be absolved of their duty to serve in this same manner.

And, here's the kicker--THE POINT IS MOOT. You keep bringing up UNFIT to serve people, and because in YOUR words they are ALWAYS women, you are biased in your arguments.

You have lost your credibility by saying I said it was the man's "fault" for her getting pregnant--read my words again, this time with comprehension. In actuallity, YOU said the WOMAN got herself pregnant, I and others merely pointed out it didn't happen without a man there.
=========
I'm not angry at all, I just think you are biased and therefore painting an unfair portait of women who are serving their country honorably. You're talking as if you are THE expert on women in the military, and I'm just pointing out the flaws in your thinking. Sorry if it hit a nerve, but I grew up in the military and many of my friends--male and female--are military, so I don't like to hear lies and sensationalist trivia.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 34
Women on Submarines
Posted: 10/19/2009 2:37:36 PM

You haven't pointed out any flaws.

I'll do it now.

Outside:
So, essentially you are too lazy to search for the laws.

So, essentially, you couldn't find them, either, huh? Can't find what doesn't exist.

Highlight where I said, "I was the expert",

Highlight where *I* said you were the expert.
Outside:
I did state that this is based on my experiance and I also stated that not all women are like this.

Outside:
Not unless our little American princesses change their attitudes and laws change. Same with the gays, I have nothing against them, but the answer is the same for them as women, for the same reasons. I was stuck with women a time or two when I was in the Marines, luckely I was a squad leader and managed to get rid of them by pulling some strings. Through my experience they are all useless.

Based on a "time or two's" worth of experience.

Now this is my opinion baised off of women I was forced to work with, I'm not saying that all of them are like that, I just never met one that wasn't useless.

You say they're all like that, then say you're not saying they're all like that. Cool world you live in!

There is a newer survey out, but I can’t seem to find it.

I guess you're just too lazy to look.

I have no issues with women in the military, nor do I have an issue with them doing the jobs they can't/don't do now.


Actually, you did manage to get one thing correct out of your accusations, I am biased.


How ironic that you argue that women are the same as men

I NEVER have argued that; in fact, I stated the exact opposite.

You guys who are aurguing on the side of women with men don't seem to care for males at all.
One wonders how you drew this conclusion.

Also, you keep trying the "darlin'" thing (passive-aggressive), and the "emotional" and "irate" thing (really, I am minimally invested in this thread). It seems to me that YOU are pretty emotional about this--and that's ok! But you keep arguing that women are useless in military, and it's not true. SOME are, some aren't. SOME MEN ARE, some aren't. So you essentially want to ban ALL women from serving on subs because "a time or two" you met useless women in the Marines; but NOT men (even though I am tempted to believe that "a time or two" you've met useless men as well). Does that even make ANY sense to you, rationally?!
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 35
Women on Submarines
Posted: 10/20/2009 4:00:36 PM
I don't know why some people see this as "PC" thing? It's a career thing--being on a sub is a great career enhancer, especially for officers. When yu dont' even get the CHANCE to participate in a station where you could earn big points, THAT is discrimination. Not being "politically correct".

I also don't understand and am appalled that woman would think that just because a woman is serving on a submarine she'd be somehow "less feminine" and in any way "competing" with men. She'd just be doing her job.


I was on the USS Jefferson City. It is close quarters. I don't see a "co-ed" boat in the future.

Can you explain why you think this?
ps--there are already co-ed boats, unless by boats you meant subs and not ships?
 grizzelda
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 36
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History
Women on Submarines
Posted: 10/21/2009 7:21:49 AM

I don't know why some people see this as "PC" thing? It's a career thing--being on a sub is a great career enhancer, especially for officers. When yu dont' even get the CHANCE to participate in a station where you could earn big points, THAT is discrimination. Not being "politically correct".


Its because it is easier than actually holding people responsibe for their actions, male or female. Rather than trying to change the attitudes that have been in place for 100's of years in the military, the attitude and belief that apparently men are nothing more than rutting pigs that cant control themsleves around women. What I want to know is why more service men arent pissed off that their own commanders, mainly men, think so little of them and their ability to actually control their "urges", that they continue to feed the idea that military men cant be trusted to not rape a woman so they have to keep them away from each other.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 37
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/7/2009 2:38:30 PM
Ha ha, so this poster has proved the point--he's a MAN and he thinks like that? Except guess who he "blames"--women! Too weird.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 38
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/8/2009 12:17:45 AM

Weird in what way "cutiepie"?

Just...wow!
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 39
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History
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/8/2009 12:06:55 PM
I think the problem is that it's a REALLY, REALLY cramped space, with people serving for maybe months at a time. Imagine if you were put with nothing but really, really fit guys, all with rock-hard abs, constantly rubbing up against each other because of the lack of room, for maybe 3 months, with no sex. All that temptation.

First, it is going to be really really hard to resist, and if it does happen, and it splits up your marriage, you're going to have to serve with these people again and again, and you won't be able to stand looking at them knowing they caused the ruin of your marriage and you losing your kids.

Second, with that kind of pressure, there are bound to be lots and lots of problems of too much flirting being misunderstood, and suddenly lots of cases of sexual harrassment, maybe even cases of rape on board, and once that happens, even once, there is going to be a huge pressure to shut down ALL submarines as being potential breeding grounds for rape. But that's not possible.

Third, submarine staff need to act in unison, as one, extremely quickly in response to a situation. Having women (or men) on the brain, can make you totally distracted while driving. A lot of work in submarines involves a lot of very exacting work, like machine work, where distraction can cost you your hand, or you life. If you're supposed to be doing something very putting a torpedo into a bay, and you're not paying attention, your hand could be crushed by the torpedo, or it could smack you in the head, and put you in a coma. The sub also cannot afford to have lots of casualties, because it isn't going to be able to get you to hospital, or replace you, for months. So it really cannot afford to have distractions, and right now, fit women are distractions for men, and fit men are distractions for women, especially when they've been at sea without sex for months.

I can agree that it would be nice to see women serving in subs. But first, we do need to work out the kinks.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 40
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History
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/8/2009 1:19:14 PM
RE Msg: 101 by Ismene2:
^^^And do you think it's the same way on the space shuttle? Women should not be allowed to go because of the close quarters, rock hard bodies, etc.? Maybe these people are just doing a job and concentrating on their jobs.
Space shuttle is a little different. Actually, it's the OPPOSITE problem. In subs, it's too much external pressure. In space shuttles, it's NOT ENOUGH external pressure. Space shuttles need to much larger per person, because they need to carry all their air with them, and need to carry mass to push against, just to drive them forwards. You could conceivably live almost forever on a sub. In a space shuttle, the lack of gravity means that you cannot stay very long before your muscles start to atrophy, even with working out. There are a few similarities. But in space, it's a hell of a lot easier to have women on board, than on subs.

Maybe you are the one who is kinky and needs to stop projecting how you would act in that situation onto others.
Thanks for the compliment, but I'm just not that sexy. I've spent enough time sharing a bed with a woman without needing to have sex with her, so that isn't a problem for me either. But I get that you might not realise that, if you think all men want to have sex with as many women as possible.

RE Msg: 102 by thebushcutter70:
subs for women only crews then and subs just for male crews is the only way to go forward then.
That's what I'm leaning towards. But would there be enough women? Would there be a different attitude in an all-women sub to an all-male sub? Would an all-women sub be better suited to different purposes? Would all-women subs be a better choice for ALL submarine missions? I really don't know.

Would gay men be allowed to serve in a male only sub.?????.........iam sure gay men will get the " urge" when " rubbing" alongside other male crew members.
Yes, that's a problem, but not for gay men. I've worked with a lot of gay men. Gay men have established quite a workable promiscuous attitude amongst themselves. They just have sex, and then get on with whatever they have to do. They really don't have anywhere near the same sorts of complications with sex that straight people do.

But I won't deny that I would expect that straight men would have a problem in a sub with gay men in it, no different than a hot lesbian would have a problem in a sub with straight men who are strongly attracted to her.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 41
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/8/2009 1:23:07 PM
Currently, an all-woman sub would not be allowed in combat (however they define that, per each branch of the military).


They really don't have anywhere near the same sorts of complications with sex that straight people do.

What a naive statement to make.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 42
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History
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/8/2009 1:28:35 PM
RE Msg: 104 by CassaGo:

They really don't have anywhere near the same sorts of complications with sex that straight people do.
What a naive statement to make.
I worked with them for years. They were really open about their sex lives. They hit on me more than once, and had no problems with me rejecting them, not at all like women, or like how men get offended when women reject them. They also didn't have a problem accepting when sex was just sex. Gays did have problems in relationships, but nowhere near like straight people have. But then, they report that they suffer from a lot of prejudice. I don't know if that evens it all out.

But that's just my experiences of them. Don't take my word for it. Ask them yourself. I did.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 43
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/8/2009 1:52:26 PM

That makes me feel so much better knowing that only ten percent of the women in the military are getting raped. Here I thought there was an actual problem in the military.

It should not make you feel better at all, but it should make you understand and to be aware of other problems occuring in the military.

Obviously sarcasm isn't your strong suit.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 44
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History
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/8/2009 2:10:05 PM
"And of that so called 30%, anywhere from 60-70% of them made it up for whatever reasons. Basically that means that only about 30% or your 30% might actually have been raped. Of course you do have to account for those that might not or do not report it."
Outsideofthemiddle....

It's more telling that a third of women in the military actually had the courage to come forward with their rapes. With 60% of rapes going unreported in the civilian world, the number of raped service women is probably far higher than the courageous few who come forth. Your rhetoric parrots the old attack the victim mentality that keeps rapists from seeing justice.

http://polimicks.livejournal.com/5618.html
snip..
Here's some statistics from http://www.rainn.org
Only an estimated 40% of sexual assaults get reported.
Of that 40% only 50% of those will even be arrested.
Only an estimated 6% of rapists will spend a DAY in jail. Not prison, jail.

On this page of the RAINN site: http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates
It shows a tree of the disposition of reported rapes.
If you want you can go see it. I did the math, it works out.

So, as a means of vengeance, false rape reporting has a really piss poor chance of coming to any fruition. I mean, there's only a 50/50 chance the victim of a false report will even be arrested. Seriously, there are way more effective and sure ways to get revenge.

Ok, now apart from the fact that it's highly unlikely to come to fruition, add into the equation that when a woman accuses a man of rape, her entire life is turned upside down and put under a microscope. Her entire sexual history will go on trial. She'll have to justify every sexual act she has ever performed with anyone ever. She'll be accused of being a promiscuous whore who wanted it. Her clothing will be scrutinized. Her comings and goings. Does she drink? Does she wear a thong? Was she wearing lacey underwear?

And if you thinks it's only adult women with suspect motives who are on the receiving end of these questions, just read the transcripts from a few child rape trials as well. Seriously, it will turn your stomach to hear defense lawyers and defendants telling a jury in all honesty that a ten year old girl wanted sex.

The US and UK legal systems are not friendly even to women who come to them with a mountain of evidence, how much less friendly do you think they are to someone with only a story? Even when the story is true, it's almost impossible to get a charge of rape taken seriously, even if you are a grandmother, nun or child, particularly without evidence.

Ok, so all that aside, of the 40% of all rapes, the ones that actually get reported, only 8% of that 40% are unfounded, not necessarily false, just lacking evidence. Some of those are victims who are bullied in recanting by their families and friends, or out of fear of the rapist or his family and friends.
end snip...
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 45
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History
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/8/2009 2:52:12 PM

That makes me feel so much better knowing that only ten percent of the women in the military are getting raped. Here I thought there was an actual problem in the military.
Really doesn't make me feel good.

RE Msg: 108 by Ismene2:
And is it higher than in the civilian community?
At 10%, nope. Stats generally say that 25% of women report that they were raped or sexually assaulted at least once in their lifetime. But most women in the West aren't saying that they get raped by their workmates 10% of the time. That's high enough that most people would choose another profession once they know that. So it's not really a great thing to say about any profession, particularly not the people who are supposed to be protecting the women of your country.

And if it is higher, what should be done about it?
That's quite a difficult issue even in civilian life. It's very hard to convict, because sex involves implied consent or verbal unrecorded consent. It's just as hard to disprove. That means that anyone who calls rape could be right, or could be making it up, and no-one really knows. So if anyone is accused of rape, and is freed by the courts, there is always the doubt that they did the rape, and got off for lack of clear proof, especially as the papers and the public aren't often publishing the details of how they are freed, even if there is evidence that shows it was impossible for them to rape. As a result, if you're accused of rape, even if there is no way on Earth you could have done it, in many people's minds, you probably got off on a technicality and really a rapist, and many find themselves terrorised, such as having molotov****ails thrown through the window, and their parents or children burned alive. Some end up killing themselves as a result.

The situation is not ideal by any means.

One solution is to make it illegal to engage in any sexual activity without an appropriate and detailed permission letter, detailing all the acts involved on that date, and the partners. Men are OK with that, for the most part, and the only ones that aren't are the ones cheating on their spouses. Women don't seem to like having to write a permission slip for sex, though.

The problem seems to be that women seem unkeen to physically state that they want sex. In the UK, most women seem to say that they feel they need to be drunk on alcohol before they can have sex. Unfortunately, though, that's sex with someone unable to provide clear and sober consent, and that would make it rape if we wanted to prosecute every case of rape to the full extent of the law. So until women are willing to stop having sex when drunk, and only have sex when they are sober, it's really not possible to eliminate rape, not unless every man who has ever had voluntary sex is also done for it. No sex for anyone, or sex and rape, or no sex when you're drunk, and no sex unless you are very vocal about it and willing to have that on public record. That's really the only options we have right now.

Maybe women serving in the military is not such a good idea if they are being raped so much. This goes against the grain of the way I want things to be, but I don't want a high percentage of women being raped just to make a point about equality.
This is a very sensible position. I would say that maybe we could have all-female platoons, and maybe all-female bases, or at least only-female sections of bases. But a lot of people are not as practical as you, and just demand that it's the army's problem.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 46
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/8/2009 2:57:05 PM

That makes me feel so much better knowing that only ten percent of the women in the military are getting raped. Here I thought there was an actual problem in the military.
Really doesn't make me feel good.

Must be the way my mind works, but it was pretty obvious to me he was being sarcastic.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 47
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/8/2009 5:28:06 PM
If the fact that men rape women isn't an issue, the fact that men protect women shouldn't be, either. That's THEIR problem, not any woman's problem. All these rationalizations so far have been because of MEN's shortcomings, not women's. So let's kick all men out of the armed services, if they can't handle it.

PLUS, NOW all of a sudden YOU are talking about combat troops??? Different scenario than serving on a sub. And stop talking about what you term "equality", when you so clearly have no idea what it means--you're misusing it. You said: " At some point, logic must take precedence over the perceived injustice done to a particular group's 'equal' rights. " Your logic is that WOMEN be banned from serving because MEN are deficient--that's just NOT LOGICAL. And "perceived injustice"???????? Jeesuz ****ing christ--YOU ARE SAYING A CERTAIN SEGMENT OF THE MILITARY SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED THE OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE. That IS unjust, not "perceived injustice". I know I'm shouting, I like to shout.


Now, ladies, regardless of the poor opinion you may have of them

And WTF is THIS statement about?
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 48
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History
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/8/2009 6:13:40 PM
RE Msg: 111 by aSydneyMale:
Must be the way my mind works, but it was pretty obvious to me he was being sarcastic.
I missed the sarcasm. I miss social cues sometimes.

RE Msg: 113 by rad0618:
This thread got hijacked with the whole rape issue.
I just thought sexual tension might be a problem. I've known a lot of people who served in the IDF. The attitude to sex in the Israeli Army is VERY different than the way I see American women represent themselves here. Israeli women soldiers are very often the ones to initiate sex.

When we did field recovery maneuvers and the fake gunfire started, any male who happened to be standing next to me, or other females, would push me/us down or get in front of me/us. They didn't want me/us to get hurt. Now, ladies, regardless of the poor opinion you may have of them, American men are trained from birth that women are to be protected and it seems to be instinctive for them even to the point of disregarding their own safety...things they didn't do for other male airmen. I don't want any man dying because he did something to protect me instead of covering his own a$$.
Yup. I've seen that sort of thing happen too, with British men protecting their girlfriends from a fight, often when it was their girlfriends who started the fight, and were fighting him to get at the other girl. The guys would got a pasting from their own girlfriends.

So, my opinion that women should not serve on front lines or in a sub or in other places where their male counterparts might feel the need to protect them is not based on equality. It's based on experience. Countless male soldiers would be needlessly lost, not in fighting the enemy, but by being distracted about protecting the females in their unit. At some point, logic must take precedence over the perceived injustice done to a particular group's 'equal' rights.

Until our society changes the way it socializes men and women, co-ed combat groups are a very bad idea. And for those of you who have used Israel and other countries, read up on it. Israel does require females to serve mandatory military time just like the males, but the females aren't in what Israel considers direct combat positions.
The IDF doesn't put women in direct combat fire. They often serve in trainers, or as tank commanders, or other similar positions. I was staying somewhere in Israel during the 2003 Iraq War (I don't want to say where, in case it opens up a potential security hole). One floor of where I was staying was taken up by the IDF's computers and detection equipment. Most of the soldiers manning them were girls.

What I found interesting, though, was that most of these jobs that women did, would be considered quite senior in most armies, and they would be able to order ordinary male soldiers around as much as they want. I realise that they are being kept from combat. But it does seem to me as if they are not being treated like "the little woman", but the reverse.

And, even if they were, the socialization may be completely different than here in the States.
It IS. As I wrote, the women soldiers go up to the men for sex. But then Israel did come up as the country with the most confident people in the world.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 49
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/8/2009 7:17:56 PM


RE Msg: 111 by aSydneyMale:
Must be the way my mind works, but it was pretty obvious to me he was being sarcastic.

I missed the sarcasm. I miss social cues sometimes.

No big deal, certainly there was no malicious intent in my posting, people who know me know I miss plenty of social cues!
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 50
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/9/2009 8:02:41 AM

Until our society changes the way it socializes men and women, co-ed combat groups are a very bad idea.


This is an interesting dilemma, and one that will likely never go away...

We can't have co-ed combat groups until society changes the way it socializes men and women, yet society is unlikely to MAKE that change UNTIL we have co-ed combat groups.

Attitudes won't change overnight... but it has to start SOMEwhere...
 ForRumOnly
Joined: 3/16/2009
Msg: 51
view profile
History
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/9/2009 8:26:06 AM
It's always good to hear that more women are going down these days and like seamen.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 52
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/16/2009 9:18:27 PM
Yes, I see your point. Not wanting to put your child in foster care DOES make you unfit for duty aboard a boat. (WTF?!)
 Pearnbran
Joined: 10/4/2005
Msg: 53
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History
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/16/2009 10:56:12 PM
If the Navy was 100% sincere about women serving on Submarines..

then let's just use 100% women only.. on one..in a make or break operation.
and see if they can make the commitment

I spent 10 years in the Navy, served with women..and aboard ships with them..

depending on the job..many were..just as good as men, and just as bad as men..

I have always been against the blatant sexist mindset that permeates our service.

there should be one standard for physical fitness in the service..Not a men's standard and a woman's standard..for combat ratings...

our enemies do not use different bullets..knives..missles..torpeados..one marked men..and others marked just for women..

also...I am current employed as a builder of Submarines..and although many of the systems are automated..the day to day operation is far from all push button..

candidates for submarine service..endure strenuous damage control training..

one that you can not opt out of..nor should not be gender compromised like the physical fitness standard currently in place...you either are physically capable to put the fire out..stop the burst pipe from leaking..or if necessary egress the Submarine ..using the equipment provided and the necessary training..

that being said..I am quite certain we can find enough woman capable both physically and with the necessary job skill sets to serve on board that 100% woman only vessel..

For those of you who think that this is harsh or unfair..when it comes down to life of death..do or not do..there is no room for political correctness....

on that same note..I have often wondered why the Navy has not commissioned an all women surface vessel...
 DrSteven
Joined: 11/2/2009
Msg: 54
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/18/2009 3:25:38 PM
Well, it'll definately be a test "under pressure". Get it?
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 55
Women on Submarines
Posted: 11/18/2009 5:46:37 PM
Women in submarines???

Women behind bars, women in fast cars, women in distress, women with no dress
Women in airplanes, women who play games
Women in uniform, see that woman with her clothes gone

Women who satisfy, women you can’t buy
Like women in magazines, and women in a limousine
Women who sip champagne, women who feel no pain
Women in a disco, and women who don’t wanna know, no no

Oh, women wanting sympathy, women feeling extacy
Women who live in fantasies, bringing man to his knees

Women who boil to love, women who need a shove
Women who can’t be beat, get that woman in the back seat, yeah yeah
Women in the usa, those women steal your heart away
Women into rock ’n’ roll, women who steal the show, go go go

Women that you write songs about, women that turn around and kick you out
Women you dream about all your life
Women that stab you in the back with a switchblade knife

Oh women, oohoo, talking ’bout women, all ’round the world
Yeah women, all the naughty girls, talking ’bout women, come on baby


Sorry, couldn't help it.
Foreigner was playing on the radio.
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