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Show ALL Forums  > Single Parents  > An "unofficial" look at CS payment amounts.      Home login  
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 diamondincnd
Joined: 1/17/2006
Msg: 26
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An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.Page 2 of 31    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31)
Futureshock
I would petition that. If thats the case the numbers of children who don't see their fathers ever again (which is already high) would go through the roof and so would poverty stricken children.
That would never fly both parents are responsible no mater what and some parents just don't get it and need a little push from the courts.
 thatusernameistaken
Joined: 5/4/2009
Msg: 27
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/22/2009 12:31:23 PM
There are lobby groups out there for everything if you look hard enough. I don't see that one ever even getting as far as a private members bill. There are way too many children born out of wedlock to even contemplate cutting them out.

To throw one back at you though, how about a father being excluded from having to pay child support if he requests an abortion early enough? With the abortion laws the way they are with only the woman having a say, I foresee eventually there will be a court case regarding this.

I now fear we are going to head off track quite far.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 28
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An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/22/2009 12:39:48 PM

I recently read an article somewhere about a group of people lobbying the government to make it illegal to force men to pay child support when a child is born out of wedlock. Only men who had children while in a marriage would be subject to child support rules.

This doesn't mean that illegitimate children won't get child support, because men can pay voluntarily,

I wonder how that will fly?


what if they are born out of wedlock and the father has the kids?
I don't thing that law will pass but one that should is when a guy meets a SO with kids and the relationshipends the guy shouldn't have to pay CS on a kid she had before, with some other guy.

I've evenknown guys that separated and she had a kid with some one and the husband had to pay CS for a kid that wasn't his(proven threw DNA test). Didn't seem fair, he should have divorsed instead of separating.
 diamondincnd
Joined: 1/17/2006
Msg: 29
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An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/22/2009 12:40:50 PM
I'm curious though, what are your view on the amounts set forth in the child support tables? Do you think the amounts are fair for the payer or receiver?
 thatusernameistaken
Joined: 5/4/2009
Msg: 30
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/22/2009 1:32:37 PM

The tables are a starting point, but aren't written in stone..


In your example you cite a situation where there is 50/50 custody. In the original post I noted that the tables are only law when custody time falls outside of the 40% through 60% range. Anywhere inside 40-60 the table can be used as a guideline, but any deal can be struck.


I'm curious though, what are your view on the amounts set forth in the child support tables? Do you think the amounts are fair for the payer or receiver?


Personally, I'm not sure what to think of the table amounts. Why I am undecided on finalizing my opinion is for the reasons I've stated earlier, I still don't know what the CS is supposed to be for. Almost every situation involving CS is unique, so how does something that may fit well for one situation fit for another?
 allys2
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 31
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/22/2009 1:40:37 PM
I am recently seperated from my darling husband and he is on 3/4 pay from the police department from NYC but we live NJ. He is also receiving SSD which supplements his income. He is now living with his brother and is not claiming that because he would then have to have more time with the kids and yet he is fighting for custody. He also depeleted his 401k after 2 weeks of signing the paper work. Half of that is mine and yet the judge ordered all assets frozen and yet it was left off of the ordand he is slowly depletely the account. Half of that is mine as we were married 25 years. What can I do to have him return my half and what should be my child support payments. I have 3 kids, one will be going to college next year and I have a 6 year old and a 20 year old. How will my payments be determined? I am also entitled to alimoney as I do not work. Does anyone come from NYC and is retired from the NYPD? Since I have no money for a lawyer will he have to pay my lawyer's fees? He is the one fighting for custody and is using my depression as a reason why my kids should be with him and not me and yet I am stable. Does any one know who the NJ courts work?

Mary
 allys2
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 32
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/22/2009 1:44:01 PM
I am recently seperated from my darling husband and he is on 3/4 pay from the police department from NYC but we live NJ. He is also receiving SSD which supplements his income. He is now living with his brother and is not claiming that because he would then have to have more time with the kids and yet he is fighting for custody. He also depeleted his 401k after 2 weeks of signing the paper work. Half of that is mine and yet the judge ordered all assets frozen and yet it was left off of the ordand he is slowly depletely the account. Half of that is mine as we were married 25 years. What can I do to have him return my half and what should be my child support payments. I have 3 kids, one will be going to college next year and I have a 6 year old and a 20 year old. How will my payments be determined? I am also entitled to alimoney as I do not work. Does anyone come from NYC and is retired from the NYPD? Since I have no money for a lawyer will he have to pay my lawyer's fees? He is the one fighting for custody . Does any one know who the NJ courts work?

Mary
 allys2
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 33
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/22/2009 1:49:07 PM
I am recently seperated from my darling husband and he is on 3/4 pay from the police department from NYC but we live NJ. He is also receiving SSD which supplements his income. He is now living with his brother and is not claiming that because he would then have to have spend more time with the kids, he spends 12 hours a week!! Can you believe that and yet he is fighting for custody. He also depeleted his 401k after 2 weeks of signing the paper work. Half of that is mine and yet the judge ordered all assets frozen and yet it was left off of the order so he is slowly depletely the account. Half of that is mine as we were married 25 years. What can I do to have him return my half and what should be my child support payments. I have 3 kids, one will be going to college next year and I have a 6 year old and a 20 year old. How will my payments be determined? I am also entitled to alimoney as I do not work. Does anyone come from NYC and is retired from the NYPD? Since I have no money for a lawyer, will he have to pay my lawyer's fees? He is the one fighting for custody . Does any one know how the NJ courts workas far as divorce?

Mary
 joshblueyes
Joined: 10/12/2009
Msg: 34
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/22/2009 1:50:53 PM

He also depeleted his 401k..............Half of that is mine


like you said HIS!!!!! get your own 401k he owes you nothing, you are not together anymore.
 thatusernameistaken
Joined: 5/4/2009
Msg: 35
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/22/2009 2:06:28 PM
allys - Seek legal aid if you can't afford a lawyer. If you can't get legal aid talk to a few legal firms around, you can likely get a lawyer to take the case with a signed agreement that they get paid out of whatever you get in the settlement. It's what my STBX did.
 allys2
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 36
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/22/2009 2:42:47 PM
I am recently seperated from my darling husband and he is on 3/4 pay from the police department from NYC but we live NJ. He is also receiving SSD which supplements his income. He is now living with his brother and is not claiming that because he would then have to have more time with the kids and yet he is fighting for custody. He also depeleted his 401k after 2 weeks of signing the paper work. Half of that is mine and yet the judge ordered all assets frozen and yet it was left off of the ordand he is slowly depletely the account. Half of that is mine as we were married 25 years. What can I do to have him return my half and what should be my child support payments. I have 3 kids, one will be going to college next year and I have a 6 year old and a 20 year old. How will my payments be determined? I am also entitled to alimoney as I do not work. Does anyone come from NYC and is retired from the NYPD? Since I have no money for a lawyer will he have to pay my lawyer's fees? He is the one fighting for custody . Does any one how the NJ courts work? We are are being seen by a best interest social worker to see who she thinks is the better parent but my husband assulted my son in june and had to go before the courts and it was lowered from assult to a lesser charge but I am wondering, does he have a chance at custody when he gave my son 2 black eyes and if so, why is he persuing it there is no chance? It seems to me that by fighting me, he is only making the lawyers rich.

Mary
 diamondincnd
Joined: 1/17/2006
Msg: 37
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An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/22/2009 5:14:51 PM
Mary don't listen to Josh, he is nothing but a forum troll.

I would think you are entitled to some thing as you were married for 25 years. How much I don't know but if there is an not for profit legal services in your area I would definably contact them.
 Tealwood
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 38
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 4:54:42 AM

^^^^How do you manage to lick your own (insert word ending in hole here) without a brown chin or a sore back ? You truly amaze me futureshock.....but I admire your shit disturbing skills.
Suppose I agree with you about men having the option of "opting out" of child support cause they were foiled by a temtress with designs on living off a man's hard earned wage


And a mother obstructing her children from living with dad because it means losing the required cs that enables the woman working part-time to remain in her house...while the nc father who earns a living actually working is living in a rental...



I understand the boys want to be with their Dad xxxxxxxx.

I don't think that my ex or my boys fully understand the consequences or repercussions of the choice they want to make.

I can do without all the child support and minimal tax benefits I get for having primary custody of the boys....ONLY IF I sold the housexxxxxxxxxxx.

I am only working part-time....and will continue to have that scheduale until my 4yr old daughter is in school full-time. I did it for my boys and she deserves nothing less.

I cannot think of a really good reason for scraping by to make ends meet to keep a 2000 sq ft home for one toddler and one adult to live in.



What seems fair to me is that people start owning their mistakes...or misjudgements and take responsibility for the actions that caused their personal circumstances....sounds fair to me...JMOT


No doubt applying ones own suggestions can be difficult especially when they have this opinion that their own actions are above criticisms.

Not from you but

Of course your son's don't see the truth of the situation, and I hate that the only response I have to this is: Hopefully, they will, when they are adults, and are parent's themselves. Hopefully. Doesn't do a damn thing for needing the pain of what is happening NOW, to lessen.

God, it so hard, raising children as it is... the emotional hell made that much worse when an a co-parent Ex decides to play their shit ... especially through your children.I used to get the, "Oh it's so sad that your children's father refuses to have anything to do with them. " And, I always replied, "It is.... but yet, it isn't."


Truth....sometimes difficult but the truth is sometimes found when children make the change and realize that Dad only did it to avoid the cs...or Mom only objected because she wanted the cs.....and the emotional hell one speaks of is sometimes if you only continued to do everything and all what I deem as best...then we would have no problem co-parenting.....but who dies and determined the custodial parent was the one who is best in knowing all the answers? In many cases the the non custodial parent is capable of raising the children very proficiently...it just is not what we would do!

But cs...just look at the individuals finacial responsibility of being self sufficient and the use of the cs...or misuse.

If cs is used to maintain a standard of living then perhaps it is misuse....as opposed to supplementing the needs to raise the child or children.
 thatusernameistaken
Joined: 5/4/2009
Msg: 39
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 10:47:51 AM

I pay $445 a month and share half of ALL expenses, except food and rent, which is what the CS is for in my arrangement


What do they mean by "ALL" expenses? You say that the CS in your arrangement is to help your ex pay for food and rent? So the gov't in your case is saying that $445 is what your share of the child's portion of food and rent would be then?

Some people talk about how expensive children are, but personally I found that once you get past the diapers and formula stage, the costs aren't that bad at all.

- You'd have a vehicle anyways if you didn't have children. Maybe a sports car instead of a minivan, but the cost difference could be negligible.
- You'd have a place to live anyways if you didn't have children. You might need a bigger place, so there are some costs there.
- Utilities shouldn't go up too much. Your kids won't be using any heat that you wouldn't use and their electricity and water useage is not much more than your basic bill is anyways I find.

The costs that I can see that directly relate only to children would be the extra food, clothing, medicine, they need. Then the extras like sports, toys, etc. when applicable.
 thatusernameistaken
Joined: 5/4/2009
Msg: 40
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 10:57:39 AM
Tealwood said the following


If cs is used to maintain a standard of living then perhaps it is misuse....as opposed to supplementing the needs to raise the child or children.


I'm wondering how much of that is the case? I would think that the supplemented costs of two children would be a lot less than what it would be to "maintain a standard of living" per se.

In Canada we are to exchange tax returns each year to show income changes. So once a person is divorced, if they go off and get a better career or become more successful, they can still have their CS rates changed as I understand it. To me, that is wrong. It is wrong as it can penalize success and reward a lack of success. A recipient doesn't need to strive to be successful as long as the payer is.
 Tealwood
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 41
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 2:39:01 PM

I'm wondering how much of that is the case? I would think that the supplemented costs of two children would be a lot less than what it would be to "maintain a standard of living" per se.

In Canada we are to exchange tax returns each year to show income changes. So once a person is divorced, if they go off and get a better career or become more successful, they can still have their CS rates changed as I understand it. To me, that is wrong. It is wrong as it can penalize success and reward a lack of success. A recipient doesn't need to strive to be successful as long as the payer is.


Not sure if I can agree with that completely as one should share the success with ones children. But why should the effort and work one puts in be shared or required to be given to an ex spouse who chooses not to put in the extra effort or work that is required in being successful. Like why should the effort of working full time be penalized againts the effort of someone working part-time?


I am not obstructing my boys from seeing there Dad....just living with him full-time.


So how is that not obstructing? You enable the contact with the father as long as it is on your terms or does not jeopardize your finacial rewards that come with being the custodial parent. Sorry but this seems to lack a level of morality? Good for the goose but screw the gander if he expects equal treatment!



if my Ex wants to take me to court for custody...he can first explain to the judge why his kids are consistantly absent from school and why he has never ever paid the table guideline of support.


Well discussions in front of the judge are always interesting. And why he did or what the accommodations were...or the total outlay versus required outlay....are all subjects that can be discussed...

Along with his suggestion to the judge that the mothers objection to the childrens move is her loss of cs and tax benefits which enables her to live at a lifestyle without actually working or earning that lifestyle. He can also then suggest or have the cs imputed and then offset againts what might be awarded or found he was required to pay you if the judge accepts he legally is required to make up the suggested shortfall.

All of which I have no problems with as if he short paid you...you should be able to ask for the full tabled amounts to be applied for the last 3yrs....and that amount be used for a credit againts what he can then ask in return if the judge rules in enabling the boys to live where they desire.

As to the attendance you should be very vocal about using that as an illustration that the father is not looking into the best interest of the children. It should be mandated that if the judge does rule in favour of the boys wishes that the attendance must be better or failing that the custodial home must be reverted to the original position.

I also have documented cases where the mother would take the children out of school for personal days. And have had the school principle speak directly to her about this.


If Dad's like my Ex had genuine interest in raising his son's...the issue of child support arrears wouldn't be an issue...or would it?....back to you....


Child support arrears and not getting the full tables amount is mainly coming from you? Or do you suggest that he still pays you cs even if the children live with him?

I suggest that often child support should not be paid. I have a job and when they are with me I pay the bills and when they are with the mother she pays. however....because of income differential she feels I should pay for everything...and to avoid the courts...I have.

Now with the economy being here it is....my sales down over a million.....commission lower than it has been in a few years....i am re thinking post secondary costs. Or after the years i do not feel like bearing the costs alone?
 thatusernameistaken
Joined: 5/4/2009
Msg: 42
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 3:26:07 PM
I share my success with my children, but would not want to share it with my ex. If her care costs were X while I was at a lower income, why would her care costs go up when my income goes up. The two should not be directly related in my opinion.
 carterscutie85
Joined: 5/31/2007
Msg: 43
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 3:32:51 PM
^^

That's a very good point, but the law is like that because some people initally start out paying a very low amount of c/s, which isn't enough, so when they get a better job the c/s goes up so that it can be enough to provide for the child. Now if you're giving enough in the first place (I say 400 a month is sufficient for 1 child) then I don't agree it should go up just because your income does.

It's just like taxes though. The more you make, the more they take.
 thatusernameistaken
Joined: 5/4/2009
Msg: 44
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 3:52:37 PM
^^

Don't bring up taxes. lol

I don't know how practical it would be, but I would love to see a set amount per child for support that doesn't vary by income. Then that amount is the child support amount, any additional amount applied for could be classified as spousal support. Just a thought.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 45
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An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 3:58:32 PM
wouldn't work but would be nice. if the amount was what she said say 400 a month per kid. The my ex would owe me 1600 a month for the 4 kids. She won't even pay the 550 they ordered, in fact she told the judge she would never get a job and never pay.
 thatusernameistaken
Joined: 5/4/2009
Msg: 46
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 4:04:23 PM
There could be a sliding scale just like there is with the current tables. The 1st child is the highest and it goes down per child from there. I'm at a reduced rate of 1250/mo for two kids on 50/50 and I'm concerned what may happen when my income goes up again.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 47
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An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 4:11:32 PM
I see your point thatusersnameistaken( youneed a shorter name, lol) thats a lot of money. shoot I'd be happy if she just pay the550. Damn and your is on 50/50, I'd be concerned too.
 carterscutie85
Joined: 5/31/2007
Msg: 48
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 4:12:55 PM
^^
Just curious, what did the judge say when she flat-out told him she'd never pay? I'd be too afraid to ever tell a judge something like that, LOl
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 49
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An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 4:21:56 PM
Well, when the judge said the amount, she said "you gotta be frickin kidding me". then when she the judge(which was female, not that it matters), shed never pay, the judge just said ok they will take your drivers licence away and you WILL be incarcerated. She said yea right. The judge told her she better watch her mouth or shed be going now for contempt. She's kept her word so far(about 4000 behind). Her drivers licence maybe suspended, notsure.
 Tealwood
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 50
An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 9:07:27 PM

Now if you're giving enough in the first place (I say 400 a month is sufficient for 1 child) then I don't agree it should go up just because your income does.


$400 for the child is sufficient? So since it takes 2.....2 parents to produce a child...then each contribute $400 suggests that the cost is $800 per month to raise a child.....

So how do you use $800 to raise your child?

Rent? well rent is already something you have to pay....and the non custodial parent has the same rental costs...without the additional income/support..

So how do you require $800 for raising your child?
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