Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 124
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?Page 4 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

I'd seriously talk to that technical writer and give a warning about that male employee's motivations to date her.

Would you do the same thing if the offending employee was female and the technical writer was male?

The OP had the obligation to tell the offender about unnacceptable behaviour in the workplace (despite the fact the conversation was private and after hours), he does not have the right to decide who his employees date and for what reason.


I'd make that "dating" as difficult as possible and protect my fellow employee from that pig.

That's a pretty paternalistic attitude, you would set the Woman's Movement back 30 years, and presume to know 'what's best' for the woman in question, who would be quite capable of making up her own mind.

Would you then listen-in on every employee's conversation to decide who you think they should date or have sex with?
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 128
view profile
History
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 4:37:44 AM

Now this is completely different!!! He didn't sexually harrass anyone.
Actually, sexual harassment doesn't have to be an action performed or directed at a person, part of the definition of sexual harassment contains the following:

sexually oriented remarks or behaviour which may reasonably be perceived to create a negative psychological and emotional environment for work and study.

As the owner of the business, the OP needs to be sensitive to even the perception of sexual harassment as he sees is reasonable. Though the verbiage of the italicized excerpt might change, the underlying meaning is the still there for companies to have to comply with...
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 130
view profile
History
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 5:13:05 AM


sexually oriented remarks or behaviour which may reasonably be perceived to create a negative psychological and emotional environment for work and study.


*Sigh*
I do think that the action does have to be performed, or directed at the person.
How else can she feel the she was harassed? She doesn't even know what was said about her.
So, I doubt that she now has a negative environment for work and study.
Come on, now..
Attractive lady works at the office, don't you think she knows what guys think/say about her behind her back?
The only crime that guy is guilty of is being stupid for letting the boss hearing it.
You misunderstand. The person that was made to feel uncomfortable was the owner of the company.

Simply because the comments weren't directed at him, and the conversation didn't include him, does not discount that it was sexual harassment in that it caused a negative environment for work for someone.

I don't just think this, it's a fact... the same as someone's viewing of lewd or lascivious emails, pictures or other media in a work environment falls under sexual harassment as well.

Contact your HR department for verification...
 How am I feeling.....
Joined: 10/23/2009
Msg: 131
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 10:51:44 AM
I would inform the technical writer ( an all other employee's) to stay clear of this guy and I would totally shut him out...I and my staff would not say word one to him, exclude him from everything......with the hopes that after enough isolation he'll quit..
 JWG86
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 132
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 11:04:04 AM
Take the employee aside and tell them that reguardless of their views, when they are in your establishment, they will behave in a way that is open and accepting to other cultures, creeds, and belief systems, ESPECIALLY those held by their co-workers. If they again breech the rules of conduct, they will be asked to leave. Notice "while within your establishment." Not "while around black employees".

Then back it up if you have to. Noone is EVER to valuable to replace. Period.
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 133
view profile
History
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 11:16:04 AM

I would inform the technical writer ( an all other employee's) to stay clear of this guy and I would totally shut him out...I and my staff would not say word one to him, exclude him from everything......with the hopes that after enough isolation he'll quit..
The individual would then have a human rights violation claim that they could file against the employer for engaging in such actions. Not a very well thought out course of action.

Take the employee aside and tell them that reguardless of their views, when they are in your establishment, they will behave in a way that is open and accepting to other cultures, creeds, and belief systems, ESPECIALLY those held by their co-workers. If they again breech the rules of conduct, they will be asked to leave. Notice "while within your establishment." Not "while around black employees".
Better resolution to the situation, but it would have to be backed up with a statement that is signed by the employee understanding the rules of the workplace as outlined by the human rights commission and the ministry of labour. A verbal warning is a courtesy that is generally negated after the occurrence since it is not proof of the conversation having happened.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 134
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 11:21:04 AM
HR law usually recommends verbal and/or written warnings prior to termination. I would recommend writing a letter (edit: in which you have him sign, for compliance) noting his racially insensitive and inappropriate comments and put him on warning that if such occurs again, he could be facing termination. Keep the letter in his personnel file.

It's your company's a$$ in a sling too, if he ends up doing anything that makes her feel discriminated against. Just because he has a certain technical skillset, doesn't mean he's irreplaceable.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 135
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 12:45:21 PM

I would inform the technical writer ( an all other employee's) to stay clear of this guy and I would totally shut him out...I and my staff would not say word one to him, exclude him from everything......with the hopes that after enough isolation he'll quit..

That's right, give him a gutless dose of passive-aggression. In my view, people who engage in this type of mind-f*ck are beneath contempt.

Is this how you run your business KHA? What a stupid and cruel thing to suggest, and the man in question would not learn any lesson from his actions, he would just think his boss and co-workers were jerks, and rightly so.

He was crass and indiscrete, plenty of posters have already suggested the right way to handle it through HR.
 How am I feeling.....
Joined: 10/23/2009
Msg: 136
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 3:17:53 PM
asydneymale...I don't suffer fools very well...so My solution to the racist stands.....racists are beneath contempt...not anything done to avoid the creeps... Perhaps if you are on 'his' side I could understand why you wouldn't want him dealt with as suggested... if that were the case I'd have to shut you out of any and everything also...
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 137
view profile
History
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 3:33:11 PM

asydneymale...I don't suffer fools very well...so My solution to the racist stands.....racists are beneath contempt...not anything done to avoid the creeps... Perhaps if you are on 'his' side I could understand why you wouldn't want him dealt with as suggested... if that were the case I'd have to shut you out of any and everything also...
Asyndneymale wasn't taking sides, he was commenting on a very valid point. Your suggestion of workplace discrimination and bullying tactics is not only immoral, but illegal as well as you are now infringing on the rights of the person that has originally made the statements.

Terminate his employment, that's legal and acceptable... but to stoop to tactics that force him to quit his job... that's harassment and discrimination and is a litigatable offence.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 138
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 4:29:44 PM

Perhaps if you are on 'his' side I could understand why you wouldn't want him dealt with as suggested...

I'm not 'on his side' for allegedly making a racist remark (we only have the eaves-dropping boss' word on this), I'm on the side of the reasonable handling of an HR matter. Your suggestion was mean-spirited and vicious and not a solution at all.


if that were the case I'd have to shut you out of any and everything also...

That would say more about you than it did about me.


Perhaps if you are on 'his' side I could understand why you wouldn't want him dealt with as suggested...

I am pretty offended at your assumption here, because I object to your 'solution' to the problem, I must of course be a racist as well?? Do you not see how offensive this is?

You say you don't suffer fools gladly, I suggest you do a little self-examination.

 ~Azul Ojos~
Joined: 7/2/2008
Msg: 140
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 6:21:30 PM

The other day I overheard a conversation between two of my male employees. A woman who is our technical writer is a very attractive single African American. One of the male employees said that he was trying to get her to date him "just so I know what it's like to f*ck a black chick." From what I could tell, he has no interest in her beyond that, and he even made some pretty ugly racial comments in general. I wanted to go right in there and fire him on the spot. The problem is, he's very important to us technically, and it would be difficult to quickly replace him. (I'm going to look into that anyway, and that's not my question. I'm not interested nor expecting in any advice on that.)


Ethically, if you are the boss and you overheard the conversation, you may need to mention that you heard the conversation and that it was an inappropriate comment, and to take it as a warning that in the work place it shouldn't be repeated as it could be taken as either a racist remark or sexual harrassement.

If you do nothing you are sending the message that it is okay to make inappropriate racist or sexual comments.
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 141
view profile
History
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 7:16:57 PM
No wonder so little work get's done these days
 SAguy_06
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 143
view profile
History
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/31/2009 7:28:25 AM
I wonder what would have been the "Bosses" reaction if that were his daughter...I wonder if he would be as conflicted or wussyfied?

and here's the race card...I wonder how the Boss would have reacted if the guys were two black guys wondering what it would be like messing with a white girl?...
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 144
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/31/2009 7:30:18 AM

(Lint Spotter) Simply because the comments weren't directed at him, and the conversation didn't include him, does not discount that it was sexual harassment in that it caused a negative environment for work for someone.

I don't just think this, it's a fact...


Yes; and, it also requires some humourless little Nabob to go running to HR making whiny-sucky noises about "sexual harassment".

Gawd, what is wrong with people these days?

Bimbly
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 145
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/31/2009 7:34:39 AM

(keeping hope alive) asydneymale...I don't suffer fools very well...so My solution to the racist stands.....racists are beneath contempt...


Wow! What a cowardly way to try and seize the moral high-ground!

The guy said he'd like to phuck a "black chick" to "see what it was like"; and, all of a sudden, he's a cross-burning member of the KKK?

Please keep a sense of proportion about this...

Bimbly
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 146
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/31/2009 7:35:12 AM
Double post.

Bimbly
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 148
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/31/2009 12:33:19 PM
I re-read the OP, just for the heck of it, and I re-read this:


... and he even made some pretty ugly racial comments in general.


This is what should be the offensive thing, not that he expressed a carnal interest in this girl.

Bimbly
 Thaddal
Joined: 10/23/2009
Msg: 149
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/31/2009 2:00:00 PM
Well you should have had a policy in place stating that no relationships other that company business will be tolerated and will be grounds for immediate termination. You need to have a brief conversation with the women and let her know...in a tactful way...should one of my employees approach you for any social activity i do not look favorable upon it and i strongly urge you to not pursue it...the last thing you need is a harrassment suit with your company...
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 150
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/31/2009 2:33:22 PM

Well you should have had a policy in place stating that no relationships other that company business will be tolerated and will be grounds for immediate termination.

So, you would dictate what your employees do outside of the workplace? If two employees decided to date and form a relationship (as distinct from a manager/subordinate situation) then you would fire them both? They may have met at the workplace, but you would dictate to them what they can do in their PRIVATE LIVES. I would tell anybody to go to hell if they tried that crap with me.


You need to have a brief conversation with the women and let her know...in a tactful way...should one of my employees approach you for any social activity i do not look favorable upon it and i strongly urge you to not pursue it...

Because a woman is not capable of deciding what course of action is best for her with you offering some 'fatherly' advice or even making a veiled-threat.


the last thing you need is a harrassment suit with your company...

Where I come from YOU would be on the receiving end of the suit for wrongful dismissal.

I'm not referring to the specific example which initiated this thread, I'm talking about the management-style of Thaddal, you cannot dictate to your employees what they do in their private lives, if they choose to date each other, if they're married and they are having an affair, if they go to strip clubs it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS unless they bring it onto the shop floor.
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 152
view profile
History
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/4/2009 11:29:24 AM
Yes; and, it also requires some humourless little Nabob to go running to HR making whiny-sucky noises about "sexual harassment".

Gawd, what is wrong with people these days?
What is wrong is that people want freedom from oppression and the right to not have to listen to disparaging remarks about another person or themselves while in their place of employment. You want to talk trash, do it outside of work where the person can walk away and not have to be there to earn a living.

From a completely personal point of view, I worked at a job where I would have male customers come in and make me feel less of a person for the simple reason that I am a woman. I put up with this for quite some time, then in my early twenties, a man actually felt like he had the right to tell me to suck his dyck. Should I have to continue to work with this man? Seriously?

No... and you're damned right I filed a formal complaint against him with the workplace. I then continued to work there for another nine years until the company closed.


Where I come from YOU would be on the receiving end of the suit for wrongful dismissal.

I'm not referring to the specific example which initiated this thread, I'm talking about the management-style of Thaddal, you cannot dictate to your employees what they do in their private lives, if they choose to date each other, if they're married and they are having an affair, if they go to strip clubs it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS unless they bring it onto the shop floor.
Actually, here in Canada employers have the right to dictate that in the event of a relationship forming between two employees, that the employee of either the lowest position or of lesser seniority will be dismissed. My sister works for the city of Brampton and she had to sign a contract stating that she understood and agreed with this policy - each person working within that union had to sign the same thing although it might have changed over time as this was 20 years ago.

I do know that private employers are allowed to refuse to hire a relative of a current employee and to also take steps to ensure that relationships are discouraged in the workplace.
 Secondhand_Lion
Joined: 11/10/2008
Msg: 154
view profile
History
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/19/2009 11:56:33 PM
I'm a 100% with interPhantom.
 Quietpainter
Joined: 10/26/2009
Msg: 155
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/20/2009 12:46:25 PM
Maybe you should be fired right along with him. Overheard or eavesdropping? This is how men talk. Be a man and choose whether you want to associate with him or not and let it go. In no way do words equate with actions and as far as his actions are concerned -- if he's irreplaceable -- then it's good for everyone (including the single women.) Usually guys that talk like that don't know what it like to f**k anyone anyway because they are the way they are.

P.S. If it was a woman talking about a man like that it should've made you smile... :)
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 156
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/20/2009 1:30:37 PM

P.S. If it was a woman talking about a man like that it should've made you smile... :)

Interesting thought. I'm wondering what the OP would do if he had overheard the woman in question having a similar conversation, supposedly private, with a co-worker? She menions she would love to have sex with a particular bloke just to see what it was like to have a white guy f*ck her? She then goes on to say some offensive stuff about caucasians in general.

Would the OP be disgusted and want to fire her on the spot, despite her job proficiency? Would the OP go running to HR and have her written up? Would the OP, as some have suggested on this thread, engage in a campaign of passive-aggression to force her out of the company.

Or would the OP do... nothing?
 mysticaries
Joined: 4/4/2008
Msg: 158
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/20/2009 1:50:12 PM
You're a manager with the capability of firing someone and you're posting on POF for advice on what to do in this situation? Sheesh. I am really underpaid and under-recognized.
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  >