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 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 138
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?Page 9 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

Perhaps if you are on 'his' side I could understand why you wouldn't want him dealt with as suggested...

I'm not 'on his side' for allegedly making a racist remark (we only have the eaves-dropping boss' word on this), I'm on the side of the reasonable handling of an HR matter. Your suggestion was mean-spirited and vicious and not a solution at all.


if that were the case I'd have to shut you out of any and everything also...

That would say more about you than it did about me.


Perhaps if you are on 'his' side I could understand why you wouldn't want him dealt with as suggested...

I am pretty offended at your assumption here, because I object to your 'solution' to the problem, I must of course be a racist as well?? Do you not see how offensive this is?

You say you don't suffer fools gladly, I suggest you do a little self-examination.

 ~Azul Ojos~
Joined: 7/2/2008
Msg: 140
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 6:21:30 PM

The other day I overheard a conversation between two of my male employees. A woman who is our technical writer is a very attractive single African American. One of the male employees said that he was trying to get her to date him "just so I know what it's like to f*ck a black chick." From what I could tell, he has no interest in her beyond that, and he even made some pretty ugly racial comments in general. I wanted to go right in there and fire him on the spot. The problem is, he's very important to us technically, and it would be difficult to quickly replace him. (I'm going to look into that anyway, and that's not my question. I'm not interested nor expecting in any advice on that.)


Ethically, if you are the boss and you overheard the conversation, you may need to mention that you heard the conversation and that it was an inappropriate comment, and to take it as a warning that in the work place it shouldn't be repeated as it could be taken as either a racist remark or sexual harrassement.

If you do nothing you are sending the message that it is okay to make inappropriate racist or sexual comments.
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 141
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 7:16:57 PM
No wonder so little work get's done these days
 SAguy_06
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 143
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/31/2009 7:28:25 AM
I wonder what would have been the "Bosses" reaction if that were his daughter...I wonder if he would be as conflicted or wussyfied?

and here's the race card...I wonder how the Boss would have reacted if the guys were two black guys wondering what it would be like messing with a white girl?...
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 144
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/31/2009 7:30:18 AM

(Lint Spotter) Simply because the comments weren't directed at him, and the conversation didn't include him, does not discount that it was sexual harassment in that it caused a negative environment for work for someone.

I don't just think this, it's a fact...


Yes; and, it also requires some humourless little Nabob to go running to HR making whiny-sucky noises about "sexual harassment".

Gawd, what is wrong with people these days?

Bimbly
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 145
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/31/2009 7:34:39 AM

(keeping hope alive) asydneymale...I don't suffer fools very well...so My solution to the racist stands.....racists are beneath contempt...


Wow! What a cowardly way to try and seize the moral high-ground!

The guy said he'd like to phuck a "black chick" to "see what it was like"; and, all of a sudden, he's a cross-burning member of the KKK?

Please keep a sense of proportion about this...

Bimbly
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 146
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/31/2009 7:35:12 AM
Double post.

Bimbly
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 148
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/31/2009 12:33:19 PM
I re-read the OP, just for the heck of it, and I re-read this:


... and he even made some pretty ugly racial comments in general.


This is what should be the offensive thing, not that he expressed a carnal interest in this girl.

Bimbly
 Thaddal
Joined: 10/23/2009
Msg: 149
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/31/2009 2:00:00 PM
Well you should have had a policy in place stating that no relationships other that company business will be tolerated and will be grounds for immediate termination. You need to have a brief conversation with the women and let her know...in a tactful way...should one of my employees approach you for any social activity i do not look favorable upon it and i strongly urge you to not pursue it...the last thing you need is a harrassment suit with your company...
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 150
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/31/2009 2:33:22 PM

Well you should have had a policy in place stating that no relationships other that company business will be tolerated and will be grounds for immediate termination.

So, you would dictate what your employees do outside of the workplace? If two employees decided to date and form a relationship (as distinct from a manager/subordinate situation) then you would fire them both? They may have met at the workplace, but you would dictate to them what they can do in their PRIVATE LIVES. I would tell anybody to go to hell if they tried that crap with me.


You need to have a brief conversation with the women and let her know...in a tactful way...should one of my employees approach you for any social activity i do not look favorable upon it and i strongly urge you to not pursue it...

Because a woman is not capable of deciding what course of action is best for her with you offering some 'fatherly' advice or even making a veiled-threat.


the last thing you need is a harrassment suit with your company...

Where I come from YOU would be on the receiving end of the suit for wrongful dismissal.

I'm not referring to the specific example which initiated this thread, I'm talking about the management-style of Thaddal, you cannot dictate to your employees what they do in their private lives, if they choose to date each other, if they're married and they are having an affair, if they go to strip clubs it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS unless they bring it onto the shop floor.
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 152
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/4/2009 11:29:24 AM
Yes; and, it also requires some humourless little Nabob to go running to HR making whiny-sucky noises about "sexual harassment".

Gawd, what is wrong with people these days?
What is wrong is that people want freedom from oppression and the right to not have to listen to disparaging remarks about another person or themselves while in their place of employment. You want to talk trash, do it outside of work where the person can walk away and not have to be there to earn a living.

From a completely personal point of view, I worked at a job where I would have male customers come in and make me feel less of a person for the simple reason that I am a woman. I put up with this for quite some time, then in my early twenties, a man actually felt like he had the right to tell me to suck his dyck. Should I have to continue to work with this man? Seriously?

No... and you're damned right I filed a formal complaint against him with the workplace. I then continued to work there for another nine years until the company closed.


Where I come from YOU would be on the receiving end of the suit for wrongful dismissal.

I'm not referring to the specific example which initiated this thread, I'm talking about the management-style of Thaddal, you cannot dictate to your employees what they do in their private lives, if they choose to date each other, if they're married and they are having an affair, if they go to strip clubs it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS unless they bring it onto the shop floor.
Actually, here in Canada employers have the right to dictate that in the event of a relationship forming between two employees, that the employee of either the lowest position or of lesser seniority will be dismissed. My sister works for the city of Brampton and she had to sign a contract stating that she understood and agreed with this policy - each person working within that union had to sign the same thing although it might have changed over time as this was 20 years ago.

I do know that private employers are allowed to refuse to hire a relative of a current employee and to also take steps to ensure that relationships are discouraged in the workplace.
 Secondhand_Lion
Joined: 11/10/2008
Msg: 154
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/19/2009 11:56:33 PM
I'm a 100% with interPhantom.
 Quietpainter
Joined: 10/26/2009
Msg: 155
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/20/2009 12:46:25 PM
Maybe you should be fired right along with him. Overheard or eavesdropping? This is how men talk. Be a man and choose whether you want to associate with him or not and let it go. In no way do words equate with actions and as far as his actions are concerned -- if he's irreplaceable -- then it's good for everyone (including the single women.) Usually guys that talk like that don't know what it like to f**k anyone anyway because they are the way they are.

P.S. If it was a woman talking about a man like that it should've made you smile... :)
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 156
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/20/2009 1:30:37 PM

P.S. If it was a woman talking about a man like that it should've made you smile... :)

Interesting thought. I'm wondering what the OP would do if he had overheard the woman in question having a similar conversation, supposedly private, with a co-worker? She menions she would love to have sex with a particular bloke just to see what it was like to have a white guy f*ck her? She then goes on to say some offensive stuff about caucasians in general.

Would the OP be disgusted and want to fire her on the spot, despite her job proficiency? Would the OP go running to HR and have her written up? Would the OP, as some have suggested on this thread, engage in a campaign of passive-aggression to force her out of the company.

Or would the OP do... nothing?
 mysticaries
Joined: 4/4/2008
Msg: 158
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/20/2009 1:50:12 PM
You're a manager with the capability of firing someone and you're posting on POF for advice on what to do in this situation? Sheesh. I am really underpaid and under-recognized.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 159
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/20/2009 1:53:56 PM

Unless you have a company policy of "no sleeping with co-workers / only meaningful relationships," then this implies a personal agenda here.

The 'elephant in the room'. The OP comes on a dating site to crucify an employee over the contents of a private conversation, dressing it up as a simple HR issue, when the real issue here is his personal moral compass.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 162
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/20/2009 11:47:39 PM

No conversatioin, no discussion. End of story.

What would your position be if it had in fact been the female technical writer talking with a friend and saying she would like to bonk a white man to see what it was like and making racial comments?

Would you do exactly the same thing?
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 163
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/21/2009 12:04:40 AM

To be honest with you, my first firing over sexual harassment was a woman.

SS

Well I admire your consistency, although I wouldn't have been so heavy-handed, my view is a warning and permanent record entry would have sufficed.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 165
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/21/2009 7:13:19 AM

(mysticaries) You're a manager with the capability of firing someone and you're posting on POF for advice on what to do in this situation? Sheesh. I am really underpaid and under-recognized.




Binroe...
 Secondhand_Lion
Joined: 11/10/2008
Msg: 166
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/21/2009 9:46:23 AM
I can't remember the title, but there was a movie awhile back...I think starring Tom Cruise, where people were being prosicuted for criminal thoughts in order to prevent the actual crime. At the time, I thought it was so left wing radical and ridiculous, that I couldn't finish watching it. Reading many of the post here, lead me to believe that it isn't as far fetched as I thought. Maybe when all you human rights activist get finished legislating away all the humanity in humans, you might discover that what you sought to protect....you actually distroyed.
 Secondhand_Lion
Joined: 11/10/2008
Msg: 167
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/21/2009 10:49:40 AM
Cheshirecatalyst, while you are sifting through and correcting insignificant details in my post.....did the point I was trying to make fly over your pretty little head?
 colt8301
Joined: 10/25/2006
Msg: 168
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/21/2009 11:23:53 AM
The other day I overheard a conversation between two of my male employees. A woman who is our technical writer is a very attractive single African American. One of the male employees said that he was trying to get her to date him "just so I know what it's like to f*ck a black chick." From what I could tell, he has no interest in her beyond that, and he even made some pretty ugly racial comments in general. I wanted to go right in there and fire him on the spot. The problem is, he's very important to us technically, and it would be difficult to quickly replace him. (I'm going to look into that anyway, and that's not my question. I'm not interested nor expecting in any advice on that.)

My question is, other than immediate termination, how would you handle this situation?



well it's a tough decision for me as well as it would be you, the screw a black chick line isn't bad except it was inappropriate for the "workplace", I mean if she heard that it's a law suit, I don't know the other racial stuff he said but if this stuff was to reach back to her and she found out me the "manager" did nothing it's like losing 2 employees, I'd atleast have a talk with the guy,
Personally don't care if someone is racist or not it affects them more than me, but if it disrupts the workplace that's when it's a problem.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 170
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/21/2009 8:29:56 PM


So OP, what DID you do?Pray tell..


I water-boarded him. What else?

You're never going to get it out of him, after starting the thread and inviting strangers to give advice on the fate of an employee he's overheard, he now arrogantly assumes the moral high-ground (which he never had anyway by coming on this thread) by keeping 'mum' about it.
 isnuttinfree
Joined: 7/9/2009
Msg: 172
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 11/21/2009 11:14:30 PM
This is only my personal opinion for debating purposes only, it doesn't account for the legalities which you need to find out for yourself OP....

Unless you had given prior instruction on workplace harrassment to your employees (eg when they joined) I don't see how you have any real recourse..other than informally speaking to him about your concerns privately.. then immediately follow-up with educating your employees in a group situation. And that only if said instruction had been given prior, could you have grounds to reprimand..document, warning etc. Even so, as it occurred after business hours and therefore on the employee's private time albeit still on work premises and in a non-overt manner?, IMO I think an informal discussion is all that is warranted BUT have a meeting with ALL your employees, reminding them of their obligations. If it occured within work hours, at an office function etc then disciplinary procedures can be enforced.
 TuffGuy666
Joined: 11/22/2011
Msg: 173
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 12/15/2011 11:56:01 AM
"My question is, other than immediate termination, how would you handle this situation?"

Cane him like they do in Singapore. Water boarding sounds pretty good too.
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