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 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 3
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CSA Have Reared Their Ugly HeadPage 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
did you get on with your ex? as sounds like shes got you over the barrel so to speak, as presum you never made her a receipt book? shes not gonna admit to having cash she would then get done for fraud, tbh theres so many women doing it like that and men quite happy to pay, which with out a receipt book is a bit silly.

edit, the government does pimp. as they say, and correctly say they have given your ex and kids benefits etc. whilst she has collected both sets of cash.
 Loose_end
Joined: 9/12/2006
Msg: 8
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CSA Have Reared Their Ugly Head
Posted: 10/24/2009 10:09:02 AM
Sounds like you're in the same boat as me pimp......

Basically............We're both screwed. Unless you can prove payment has been made we dont have a leg to stand on.....

If you can prove it, and she's been claiming full benefit entitlement, she'll be prosecuted for fraud.

The money wont go to her.........Always to the state.

When Women say their ex 'owes' them money, it's rarely the case. The state has already paid them by form of benefit. So in actuality their ex owes the state.

And they fully intend to get paid. Either by you because you cant prove it or by her because of her fraud.

The only way out is to either give up working and live on benefits for the rest of your life. Or go self employed and hide as much of your earnings as you can. If they start docking my wages, i fully intend on returning to self employment......I've always paid my way in life and for my daughter. No way in hell will i pay the same bill twice. I'd sooner go to jail.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 9
CSA Have Reared Their Ugly Head
Posted: 10/24/2009 10:32:18 AM
I would go online and do some research on this if I was you. Or seek the advice of "professionals". My experience with them wasn't good. My ex insisted on doing it through them from the start, which I was slightly offended by, as I probably would have paid her more directly. I found them to be quite unreasonable, for example, the flat I was living in was included in my business rent, and so was very cheap. They decided that I was earning 7k pA more, based on the "market value" and so worked everything out on what they think you're getting, even if you're not.
And they take it straight from your bank account.
The CSA have had lots of problems, and I know that many people have not been pursued, but once they know where you are, it would be very difficult to 'escape', and would require expensive plastic surgery, eye transplants, a sex change, and a witness-protection relocation to a different country with a new name and identity.
I don't know what their "powers" would be with arrears as I always stayed up to date, but there were times, when my business was going under, that they only left me with just enough blood to remain conscious.
I certainly wouldn't advise you to" ignore them"...

 Loose_end
Joined: 9/12/2006
Msg: 12
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CSA Have Reared Their Ugly Head
Posted: 10/24/2009 6:02:58 PM

my self employed ex can't seem to agree to pay the £50 a week


I sympathise cupid......

These kinds of threads are always very ambiguous..........I must confess, during my previous life, when my daughter was still under the age of 18, 50 quid a week would have been an enormous dent in my weekly wage. But for some, that same 50 quid would have been a mere pinprick.

I've always paid what i considered to be a reasonable amount. During the course of her growing up, i'd even raised the amount myself, It was never an enormous amount per se....And probably only made a small dent in the cost of raising a child when you take into account all factors......

But i did always pay my way, supporting my child is something i never saw as a burden, she's my daughter!

I'd always tried my best to maintain a decent relationship with her Mother. I found her to be vindictive, annoying, spiteful and resentful........I took this on the chin, in my mind....emotional support will always outweigh financial support. In the mind of the CSA its always financial. And so it should be. They're trying to save the government money...............Our money!

They werent set up for a moral crusade to try and make absent parents be better, it was purely financial.

I received a bill around 10 years ago for 14,000 quid. It was then i knew that my daughters Mother hadnt declared what i was paying her to the state.

Where do i go from there? Do i insist my payment? Do i sit back while her Mother gets investigated for fraud (which could carry a jail sentence) Do i do all these things knowing that it will turn my own flesh and blood against me.

No.......

I've not seen her in 3 years. My poison dwarf of an ex has ensured this has happened. Because when she turned 16, i had an unfortunate accident which left me on incapacity benefit for 3 years and her blood sucking leech of a Mother lied her backside off and has landed me with a bill of well in excess of 30 grand.

Bitter? Yes i am. When my daughter explodes on me (possibly) with all her built up venom and anger at what she see's as my abandonment of her, i'll still be muggins who sits back and takes the blame for everything. Maybe i'll have finished my jail sentence by then for 'non-payment' and i can start rebuilding my life sad in the knowledge that my only child hates me, but happy in the knowledge that i always did the best i can...........It might not have been great, but it was always my best effort.

Ah well.........Theres always beer and Portsmouth Football Club to console myself with
 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 18
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CSA Have Reared Their Ugly Head
Posted: 10/25/2009 5:03:22 AM
one wonders how much fraud is in the system? if i had my way i would force every partnership, and pregnancy to watch jeremy kyle for a good 6 wks as shows the dangers of not providing for the kids by both parents. plus he tells every man to set up a bank account in the childs name to show payments for when situations happen like in the o.p.

the worrying part is that its the taxpayer who has to sort it out and provide the benefits. wonders how much the csa is costing as in set up fees and of cause retrieving the cash, and what percentage of single parents are keeping the allowence they get in cash quiet thus defrauding the taxpayer.
 Warrencraig
Joined: 8/30/2008
Msg: 31
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CSA Have Reared Their Ugly Head
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:54:00 PM

last we heard they couldn't "find him"

I had that with my dad!! despite him living at the same address for 15 years doing the same high earning job with a new family etc!!! As he will be dead soon, i wonder if i can sue him to get 18 years worth of CSA payments out of his "estate"???

I thought the CSA had been closed down because they were so utterly inept??

Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, different name, same "friendly" service
 Warrencraig
Joined: 8/30/2008
Msg: 38
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CSA Have Reared Their Ugly Head
Posted: 10/27/2009 5:34:28 PM
I thnk its fundamentally wrong that so many parents use kids as a weapon to get back at partners. In the long run it will ALWAYS bite you in the back when the child grows up and works out for themself whats going on.
 Warrencraig
Joined: 8/30/2008
Msg: 47
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CSA Have Reared Their Ugly Head
Posted: 10/30/2009 5:45:42 PM
A lot of people get confused with CSA payments and benefits like that.

From the CSA website it says that £20 per week is disregarded when calculating benefit entitlement.

I think you technically have to declare all income when on benefits. They then apply disregards to that.

How much the non resident parent earns does not effect how much benefits the parent with care recieves. But it does effect how much CSA calculate he should pay.

The two are seperate calculations because what someone is supposed to pay and pays in reality is two different things.

So are you saying the two are still together as a couple but living apart??? I cant see anything on the CSA website that differentiates between a Non resident parent in a relationship and one who has split up. I guess it doesnt relieve him of his obligation to pay maintenance for his child at the rate on the CSA calculator.

Quite a complex scenario really.

knowing the CSA they would argue that he has to pay the amount they say as a minimum so they can pay out the minimum benefits necessary. Otherwise loads of couples who split could say they are still together meaning she gets the full benefits and he only has to pay a little bit if she agrees to it.
 Warrencraig
Joined: 8/30/2008
Msg: 49
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CSA Have Reared Their Ugly Head
Posted: 10/30/2009 11:35:55 PM
the authorities just want to reduce thier benefit "burden" as much as possible.

Thats why they often hassle single mums for details of the dads to chase after them. For a government organisation aiming to save as much money as possible they arent very good at chasing after people!!!!
 kjislander
Joined: 5/7/2007
Msg: 59
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CSA Have Reared Their Ugly Head
Posted: 12/1/2009 2:21:55 PM
In reply to lulu my mates son is in the same position as your co worker they take every spare bean off him & hes wages get checked periodically so he can't cheat it & they even added hes wife salary to what he pays & to top it he has not even seen hes son he did not even know hes ex was pregnant he just received a letter one day asking for £15,000 back pay.
 Loose_end
Joined: 9/12/2006
Msg: 61
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CSA Have Reared Their Ugly Head
Posted: 12/10/2009 4:19:13 AM

Well i cant get out of it even though they forgot about me for 8.5 years i still godda pay, they doc it out of your wages.

There's a lesson here somewhere!


The only person who can help you out of this mess would be your ex....I take it that (like myself) You were contributing to your kids upbringing? If yes then you have to urge your ex to phone them up to clarify the situation.

When i started a new job on PAYE this year, they sent me a bill of £25,179.86 They also hit me with a deduction from earnings order which would have left me (after rent and council tax) with £40.00 a month to live on.

I had to hand my notice in at work......

Thankfully, they were finally able to get hold of my ex and she told them that i had always contributed and barring a couple of minor spells (where i was actually not working) my financial obligations were never shirked.

My case has finally been closed.

Good luck. The CSA can destroy lives. It's been estimated that 9 non-resident parents have committed suicide for every year of the CSA's existence.


It seems to me that there is little room for parents who actually have a very amicable relationship. I am currently pregnant with my second child and have just gone onto income support, so questions regarding 'official' maintenance is something I have had to discuss with my partner. He has even go so far as to say that he will contribute towards my utility bills etc. He is on a relitively low income and we have found that purchasing things like this makes maintenance hard to quantify. By this I mean that I cant say he pays me X amount each week although he may have spent 200 that month on clothes, nappies and other necessary items.

I do not wish to be taken to court for fraud and therefore have had this discussion with him. We have a until March when our child is born to discuss this issue.


The CSA has changed a lot in the past few years. it's still ultimately useless and destructs much more than it helps (for both resident and non-resident parents)
Inform the CSA that you and baby's father have a private agreement and you both do not need or want CSA involvement. It's an arrangement based on trust of both parties.

If he loses his job and cannot afford to give you anything, you will have to accept that, and likewise, if he ends up in a very well paid job, it's his duty to ensure his child and yourself also benefit.

The CSA are now willing to allow broken families to continue acting as a family (financially) The more your ex earns, the better for the family, the less he earns, the family has to tighten its belt....

http://www.cmoptions.org/

Well worth a read.

As for me. Well maybe the last couple of months or so has helped in building some bridges between my ex and myself. I may even have the chance to resurrect the relationship with my 19 year old daughter that's been dead for 3 years. But thats a whole nother story



 Loose_end
Joined: 9/12/2006
Msg: 65
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CSA Have Reared Their Ugly Head
Posted: 12/11/2009 7:10:53 AM
Loose end, just wondering where that statistic came from?


I dont know, i couldnt claim the figure to be exact either, after all, how would you prove it was the exact reason for a suicide? Not every suicide comes with a note detailing exactly what drove them to commit such an act.

I only know my own personal experience.

During the past few months, i have had this told to me direct from my 'case worker'

I dont care if you have paid.
I'm not interested
You are a liar
If you dont pay, you will go to prison
We will take your house, your driving licence, and your passport
Any future job you get, of ANY wage, we will take 50% of your net, regardless of your rent and council tax commitments.

Even when my ex phoned them up to tell them i have always paid she was told

'But you can still claim another £23,500 he may have paid, but it's only his word against yours.'

It might be 9 per year, i cant remember where i read that figure, it may be 900, it may be something completely different. But i do know that even if the figure was 1, it would be 1 too many.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1525148/The-CSA-not-only-ended-my-fathers-life-it-ruined-mine-too.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cx6zMIA9wI

The Telegraph article i find to be particularly harrowing
 Loose_end
Joined: 9/12/2006
Msg: 66
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CSA Have Reared Their Ugly Head
Posted: 12/11/2009 9:26:41 AM
All my recent business with the CSA has prompted me to delve a bit deeper.....

NACSA (the National Association for Child Support Action) used to keep a book of the dead, where it archived all press cuttings of suicides with suggestions that CSA involvement was a primary cause......The live link is dead, but it is still accessible.

http://web.archive.org/web/20001008000831/http://www.nacsanews.org.uk/BodEntrance.htm

Cheerful reading for any Friday night......

And this is from the Mens health forum....



Suicide and the CSA
Does the CSA drive people to suicide?

Obviously neither the CSA nor the government will admit it does, but what is the evidence either way?

It would not be surprising if the CSA leads people to suicide, perhaps as "the final straw". The Men's Health Forum says:

"Most suicides occurred because the individual felt disconnected from their community, family and friends; they failed to adjust to social change (suggesting that this occurs during periods of economic depression); or resulted from the individual losing their personal identity and wishing to sacrifice their life for the ‘community’ (as in the case of ‘cult’ suicides). Durkheim and others have argued that the higher societal fragmentation, the higher the suicide rate. This fragmentation can take a number of forms, with the loss of a job, divorce, poor social networks and low community affiliation all highlighted as factors in suicide."

Think what this means to any separated parent, but especially one who may have lost significant contact with "his" children, has possibly had to move out of the house so that the children can live there with the mother, and may well have lost contact with about half of the friends and acquaintances. And then along comes an Agency which treats him as an "Absent Parent" and takes money off him to hand over to someone he may now hate.

Furthermore, this Agency has sometimes displayed such extended periods of unrelenting incompetence that even the best-placed people consider giving up. Consider the real case of a lone mother who spent 6 years trying to get the CSA to collect the money from her ex for the children. Despite a phone call to them each week, and a letter each month, and going via her MP to the Independent Case Examiner (where she got a favourable report) and the Ombudsman (where she also got a favourable report), they failed for 6 years to deliver. But because they existed, her other options were shut-off - she had to use the CSA instead of the courts, but while the courts may have delivered, they didn't. She had the choice of quitting, and she did (with the loss of very many £1000s). A non-resident parent would have had no legal way out. The attitude of the CSA towards an NRP (especially a man) can be appalling.


I need to leave this thread now, time to look at some porn to cheer myself up...
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