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 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 26
chemtrailsPage 2 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
If anyone should know what exhaust in cold air looks like it's us!

that's why I'm so interested in the phenomenon. I was looking into it years before it became a popular conspiracy theory. Like I said before, in the mid-nineties They just sort of "sprang" on the scene. I've been looking up at jets most of my life (I used to enjoy identifying them when I was younger). I remember talking to one of my professors in Applied math about his work optimizing exhaust duct shapes for noise reduction and I remember seeing those designs become a reality, as the jets over winnipeg became much quieter. The exhaust ducts on the tankers I see dispensing aerosols are an order of magnitude quieter than that. It's almost spooky; they can be right overhead at 20000 ft. and you can barely hear them. Maybe it's a side effect of the aerosols, I don't know, but I rather suspect they are designed to be unobtrusive to keep people from looking up and paying attention.

It is virtually certain that they are dumping a lot of aluminum & barium into the atmosphere. Why, I don't know. I DO know that the clouds & trails play hell with my observing on many nights and it never used to. Maybe I should ask some of the old timers at RASC if they've noticed the change over the years -- We can't all be wearing tinfoil hats. lol
 Bluesman2008
Joined: 4/2/2008
Msg: 27
chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:09:57 PM

I looked up and saw the entire sky cris-crossed with about a dozen of them.


That's the same typical pattern I've seen. The program, whatever it was, must have stopped because I've seen no reports anywhere of chemtrails persisting. The contrails are natural and do persist but we know what those are. The chemtrails, we still don't and, like JustDukky, I trust the military about as far as I can throw them.

This is the same government that experimented with LSD early on in San Francisco and, of course told nobody about it. This it the same government that brought you agent orange and I'd be willing to bet those fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan weren't told about the health consequences of depleted uranium either.

This is the same military who outright lied about the cause of death of that sports figure (can't remember his name) who could have easily gotten on with a pro team but joined the military instead and got killed with friendly fire. The military lied about that because bush was having a tough time and they needed a national hero and a story to take the heat off bush.

Would the government lie to the public over chemtrail exlperiments? Ohhhh no.

You people that call it a conspiracy like you label everything else are so incredibly freaking gullible you can be sold anything. THe government loves people like you because you suck up everything you're told and accept it as gospel. You're the ones with the tin hats one. You're fools.

I also taught flying and I know what the hell a contrail is.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 28
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 5:02:47 AM

You people that call it a conspiracy like you label everything else are so incredibly freaking gullible you can be sold anything. THe government loves people like you because you suck up everything you're told and accept it as gospel. You're the ones with the tin hats one. You're fools.


What a wonderful world you live in, bluesman.

Okay, graft, corruption, kick-backs, incompetence...those are far more believable traits of "gubmint" than...well, pretty much every other thing you seem to suck up with glee. And they also come with something you seem to lack the concept of - a surprising thing, for a "lawyer." It's called PROOF.

So really, who's the gullible one, here?


I also taught flying and I know what the hell a contrail is.


However, you clearly don't know what the hell "plausible" and "evidence" are.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 29
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 8:05:48 AM

I don’t know the real reasons for filling or skies with these chemtrails. It would be nice to know the truth as to why.


The truth is, they're not. You're looking at airplane exhaust.

A more important question is why people prefer to believe this nonsense rather than ask themselves a simple question....why?
 aimee333
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 30
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History
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 8:28:44 AM
It's more then simple plane exhaust. Normal airline planes leave very little exhaust. The chemtrails have so much it is a joke. It lingers for hours. It turns a blue sky white. It is not just the chemicals that are a concern, it's the blocking of the sky.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 31
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 8:49:58 AM

It's more then simple plane exhaust. Normal airline planes leave very little exhaust. The chemtrails have so much it is a joke. It lingers for hours. It turns a blue sky white.


Did you not read my first post? About weather? Have you not noticed that long duration contrails are usually associated with incoming precipitous weather systems? (No, they don't cause 'em, either, before you go there. Weather is entirely too complex for something as simple as a passing jet to influence.)

Conversely, short duration contrails result from high pressure, low humidity weather systems. Simple as that. Nothing more complicated, really. In fact, I use the length of contrails as an indication of what kind of weather to expect for observing with my scope.
 aimee333
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 32
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History
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 9:23:47 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8NmzfjIkI0

You are in denial.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 33
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 9:29:57 AM
You are in denial.


No, just common sense. What some of us like to call "informed." But thanks for your concern.

Edit: and did you notice the period after 9/11 there were none of these "chemtrails?" One would think, if "they" had so much power, they could have easily launched their "missions" regardless, dontcha think?
 aimee333
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 34
view profile
History
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 9:38:36 AM
This is simple plane exhaust...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66QssHrbDm4
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 35
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 9:47:39 AM
As no one has answered these relevant questions yet, they bear repeating:

How do you tell the difference between a plane that is cruising by at 25,000 feet, and one crusing above at 30,000 feet?

How do you tell the difference between a contrail, and a chemtrail?

OK, the first question is pretty much directed at JustDukky and his claims. Good luck with that answer, btw.

The second question, however, is for anyone to answer... anyone at all...

You are in denial.

Yes. We deny the validity and veracity of many youtube videos. For example, someone could show a picture of a fallen down tree-- that is not sufficient evidence of an alien landing there (to me, at least).

The German government has admitted to the chemtrails spraying on National Television, but lied, saying they are not harmful. These are Government facts.

You mean this debunked story?

http://contrailscience.com/germans-admit-they-used-duppel/
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 36
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 9:53:36 AM

This is simple plane exhaust...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66QssHrbDm4


Actually, yes. And do you notice the cirrostratus and stratocumulus clouds? Clear indications of weather coming in. I'll bet you shortly after he shot that video, it rained. Or, at the very least, a day or two of overcast skies. New World Order? No, just simple meteorology.

Before you get too much into this nonsense, I'd strongly suggest you read up on the subject of weather.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 37
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 10:00:33 AM
I use the length of contrails as an indication of what kind of weather to expect for observing with my scope.


Now that many reach from almost one horizon to the other and turn into pseudo-cirrus clouds (an abrupt change from before about 1995, when that NEVER happened), when I see ANY on a given day, I generally don't bother setting up my scope.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 38
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 10:56:09 AM

How do you tell the difference between a plane that is cruising by at 25,000 feet, and one crusing above at 30,000 feet?


I used to like spotting & identifying planes, so many years ago, I made a little sort of low power (5x) spotting scope with a reticule for angular measurement. If I could identify the plane, I could work out the distance based on angular measurement of wingspan or length. Timing the passage across the FOV of the scope allowed me to work out the speed it would be travelling at.

After awhile, you kinda get a feel for the altitude & velocity of planes (as long as you can identify them) without the scope. Not as exact, but still a good ballpark figure. Most of the "chemtrail" planes appear to be either (KC?) 135s or 167s. Their flightpath is low and straight, so they obviously aren't in any kind of "holding pattern" for landing at the airport, and they are flying too low & slow to be simply overflying Winnipeg, so what are they doing?


How do you tell the difference between a contrail, and a chemtrail?

That's easy I never saw a chemtrail for 30 years (lots of contrails though). Since about 1995, I see them all the time, mostly on "unmarked" aircraft. (identified commercial aircraft seem to still produce regular contrails as far as I can tell)...What's changed?...Why with only some aircraft?...Did Jet fuel undergo a major change in 1995?...Doubtful, since most aircraft seem to produce regular contrails.

I think these questions are reasonable, yet anytime I've asked them, I've been given the usual bullsh¡t spiel about "normal contrails" they give to everyone else. Sorry. I'm not that stupid; if they were normal contrails I wouldn't be asking about them. I need better answers and I'm not getting them from the people who ought to know. This alone tells me something is being hidden from the general public. If they aren't telling us, it's probably because they don't want us to know. Well I didn't know I was used as a human guinea pig and it isn't a nice feeling; certainly one that doesn't exactly engender trust in government. The best assumption is that they are lying their a$$es off. They always did before; why should they change now?
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 39
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 11:33:43 AM
HOW can I tell the difference?

I never saw ordinary contrails turn into cirrus-like clouds, so if a trail persists and spreads to become a hazy cloud, chances are good it's a "chemtrail"


when a plane is cruising at 35,000 feet, can you see the markings on it to identify it as military or civilian?

No, not without some pretty powerful binoculars, however, it is usually possible with ordinary binoculars to make out colour (which usually indicates company colours or a logo on the plane. Most commercial planes are pretty obvious about that.) For the most part, planes at 35000 feet are leaving regular contrails, and where I am, they are just overflying the city on their way to another airport. Nothing suspicious about them that I've seen.


Does the "chemtrail" result after being mixed with the jet fuel, or are there "sprayers", for lack of a better word?

How the hell am I supposed to know? I'm not exactly putting the planes under a microscope you know!


wouldn't you be able to test the internals of the jet motors for traces of such chemicals? How about testing the fuel NOT burned for these chemicals, as there is always fuel left over in the tanks? AND, if so, why hasn't that been done yet?

"I" can't do ANY of that...I don't even know where they land, and I rather suspect that even if I did, nobody there is gonna let me examine the plane closely anyway. I doubt anybody else would be allowed to either (especially since they seem to be non-commercial (military?) aircraft, which would explain why that stuff hasn't been done yet.


Enquiring minds need to know.

You & me both!
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 40
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 11:44:14 AM

I never saw ordinary contrails turn into cirrus-like clouds, so if a trail persists and spreads to become a hazy cloud, chances are good it's a "chemtrail"


No, it means you can look forward to some inclement weather. You've got a warmfront on the way.


No, not without some pretty powerful binoculars


Like these, perhaps:

http://www.rcopticalsystems.com/telescopes/20military.html


however, it is usually possible with ordinary binoculars to make out colour (which usually indicates company colours or a logo on the plane. Most commercial planes are pretty obvious about that.)


Wow, you must have a pretty good "spotting scope" or binoculars because, every time I've ever tried to see anything with a pair of binoculars like that, I get just the shape. But outstanding markings? Not really.


How the hell am I supposed to know? I'm not exactly putting the planes under a microscope you know!


Which is where people fill in the details with their imaginations. Unfortunately, too many people have "issues" with their imagination and where it takes 'em.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 41
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 11:53:57 AM

the "chemtrail" planes appear to be either (KC?) 135s or 167s.

No such plane as a 167 (that we know of... mwuahahaha...)

I never saw ordinary contrails turn into cirrus-like clouds,

How did you know those were ordinary contrails in the first place? Or that the chemtrails "turning into clouds" weren't actually normal contrails dispersing (normally)? Sort of this line of thinking, it seems:

"Daddy, what is an apple?"
"It's what grows on apple trees."
"What's are apple trees, then?"
"They grow apples."

What makes contrail dispersal a chemtrail? What chemical causes dispersal and how? What lack of chemicals causes lack of dispersal?
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 42
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 12:22:48 PM

outstanding markings? Not really.

So you can't even make out the presence of colour, like the white/blue of a Canadian Airlines fuselage? (I'll admit the orange is pretty small & hard to spot with ordinary binocs). Mind you, it does help to put your binocs on a parallelogram tripod mount.

BTW I LOVE those RC Optical scopes! I've never peered through them, but I HAVE had a lot of "wet dreams" about a 36"RC some guy in Arizona had for sale awhile back (I wonder if he ever sold it...He was only asking $350k and I'm sure he paid over a million for it!)
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 43
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 12:34:55 PM
No such plane as a 167 (that we know of... mwuahahaha...)

Hee Hee...typo!


How did you know those were ordinary contrails in the first place? Or that the chemtrails "turning into clouds" weren't actually normal contrails dispersing (normally)?

OK, answer me this...in 30 years of looking up, I never saw a contrail become a cloud. Since about 1995 I see all kinds of contrails turning into clouds. Coincidence? Is it possible I just never in my life looked at the "right" contrails until the weather changed drastically in the nineties, thus creating the circumstances whereby they could now form all the time?

Being a pilot, answer me this...When you are in the queue to land at an airport, do you not circle it in a fairly wide arc, or do you make straight passes over the middle of the city at 15000 to 25000 feet? If so, why?

If you are jettisoning fuel before a landing, how long should that take (in a "worst case scenario). Are you allowed to jettison fuel directly over major population centres? What should your contrails look like when you jettison fuel? At what altitude do you usually do it?
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 44
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 12:41:48 PM

Being a pilot, answer me this...When you are in the queue to land at an airport, do you not circle it in a fairly wide arc, or do you make straight passes over the middle of the city at 15000 to 25000 feet? If so, why?


I'm not a pilot but I did see one in a holding pattern before going into Pearson International do several circuits over my usual observing spot one night. I'd estimate it wasn't more than that 10,000 feet and likely closer to 5,000 at the time. I don't think it was a jumbo. Maybe an A-319...strictly a guess on my part.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 45
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 12:49:28 PM

I did see one in a holding pattern before going into Pearson International do several circuits over my usual observing spot one night. I'd estimate it wasn't more than that 10,000 feet and likely closer to 5,000 at the time.

That sounds pretty normal and very common. I see that all the time, as I'm sure you did, when you lived here.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 46
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 3:39:28 PM

You are a pilot.............. you should know the answers to the questions you pose.

What makes you think I'm a pilot?...I was ASKING a pilot!
"Being a pilot" (read as "Since you are a pilot...")
Now go and read it again Paul; I think it will make more sense to you now.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 47
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 3:46:50 PM
JustDukky, I can't speak to your own personal experience. The fact is that your own personal experience does not speak for much regarding building a case for the intentional spraying of toxins on the populace.

Personally, I wasn't even aware of contrails until I saw them in old aviation movies as a kid. I lived to close to a major airport growing up, and all the planes flew rather low. Since then, I've seen contrails form, not form, dissipate quickly, and dissipate extremely slowly, and becoming like clouds as you said. It boils down to atmospherics, as has been said numerous times here.

However, a picture is worth a thousand words as they say. If you really have a case to make, I suggest you take a photo of the next all white KC-135 flying at 20,000' that is leaving a "chemtrail." I will take a look and see if I see anything mysterious. Just to warn you though-- as a ghosthunter once said, "You can't actually see a ghost if you don't already believe in them."

But really, don't you think the gov't would be able to complete these nefarious activities in a more invisible fashion?
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 48
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 4:31:29 PM

your own personal experience does not speak for much regarding building a case for the intentional spraying of toxins on the populace.

Am I trying to build such a case? The spraying of toxins on an innocent populace is a matter of historical record. All I assert now is that something funny is going on and they're pretty close-lipped about it and trying to lie it away. That alone suggests something evil is going on. (have you EVER known a government to do anything good?)

Fact 1: Barium and aluminum particulates are being dumped into the atmosphere (based on soil & water testing)
Fact 2: People who ask what's going on are being discounted as conspiracy theorists (a sure sign that a real conspiracy exists, as they are devoting considerable manpower & media influence to promoting the "official" bullsh¡t view.)
Fact 3: Freeman Dyson & Edward Teller both proposed just such a program in using reflective powder compounds as a means of combatting global warming.
(as a point of interest, I pulled this off Wikipedia (so it's probably just some teenager's fantsay anyway. knowing how reliable Wikipedia is, though I imagine we could probably check on the patent.:
"Methods based on increasing the aerosol content in the lower stratosphere for climate modification were proposed by a Russian scientist, Budyko.[19]
United States Patent 5003186 suggested that tiny metal flakes could be "added to the fuel of jet airliners, so that the particles would be emitted from the jet engine exhaust while the airliner was at its cruising altitude." Alternative proposals, not known to have been published in peer-reviewed journals, include the addition of silicon compounds to jet fuel to make silicon dioxide particles in the exhaust."
Fact 4: If all they were doing was combatting global warming, they would be dispensing at much higher altitude and they probably would love to take the credit for saving humanity from an oven, so something more sinister is probably going on (Your guess is as good as mine)


don't you think the gov't would be able to complete these nefarious activities in a more invisible fashion?

Don't you know that the best place to hide something is in plain view?
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 49
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 4:32:57 PM

Is it bad if I am getting to like the spankings?

I'm pretty fond of them myself...but only if a woman is doing it!
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 50
view profile
History
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 5:03:19 PM

Am I trying to build such a case?

It sure LOOKS like you are.


The spraying of toxins on an innocent populace is a matter of historical record.

With the caveat that the fluorescent compound in question was at the time considered almost completely harmless, and has, in fact, never been shown to be otherwise; that is, has never been shown to be a toxin.

All I assert now is that something funny is going on and they're pretty close-lipped about it and trying to lie it away. That alone suggests something evil is going on.

You're missing a huge step there. If "something funny *IS* going on" and "they" are trying to lie it away, that would, in fact, probably suggest something evil is going on. But you're missing at least one step there; you can't demonstrate that "they" are lying about something until you've at least proven that *SOMETHING* is happening in the first place. (see below, as well.)


(have you EVER known a government to do anything good?)

Yes. The simple fact that you are unable to come up with a single example speaks volumes about your credibility as an unbiased critic.


Fact 1: Barium and aluminum particulates are being dumped into the atmosphere (based on soil & water testing)

Provide a source? Please be sure that source has at least attempted to rule out non-nefarious origins for said barium and aluminum particulates, and quantifies such alleged contamination against commonly-accepted levels of toxicity.


Fact 2: People who ask what's going on are being discounted as conspiracy theorists (a sure sign that a real conspiracy exists, as they are devoting considerable manpower & media influence to promoting the "official" bullsh¡t view.)

I could simply go with the "if you don't act like an enemy, you probably won't have any" argument, but I'm not sure you'll "get" how that applies in the case of "if you don't act like a conspiracy theorist, you probably won't be called one." Let's go with a comparable scenario:
Me: What year did you stop beating your wife and children?
You: What do you mean? I never beat my wife and children.
Me: So you admit you beat one or the other.
You: No! I never beat my wife OR my children!
Me: I think you are a bit too vehement in your denial. Clearly you are hiding something.
You: What? You're insane!
Me: Oh, now you're attacking me as a feint to draw me off the REAL crimes you've committed.....
etc...
(Here's a hint: Simple denial that something is true does not MAKE it true... Your logic there has become completely defective. If you KNOW something is true and can prove it, then yes, denial does lead one to believe that perhaps there is a nefarious intent, or at least an effort to avoid responsibility on someone's part.)


Fact 3: Freeman Dyson & Edward Teller both proposed just such a program in using reflective powder compounds as a means of combatting global warming.

I thought you said something nefarious was afoot, not an attempt to save the world. Stay on target, Skywalker.


(as a point of interest, I pulled this off Wikipedia (so it's probably just some teenager's fantsay anyway. knowing how reliable Wikipedia is, though I imagine we could probably check on the patent.:
"Methods based on increasing the aerosol content in the lower stratosphere for climate modification were proposed by a Russian scientist, Budyko.[19]
United States Patent 5003186 suggested that tiny metal flakes could be "added to the fuel of jet airliners, so that the particles would be emitted from the jet engine exhaust while the airliner was at its cruising altitude." Alternative proposals, not known to have been published in peer-reviewed journals, include the addition of silicon compounds to jet fuel to make silicon dioxide particles in the exhaust."

Ah yes, the old "If a thing *can* be done, our government *is* doing it TO US FOR AN EVIL REASON" argument. See above about "acting like an enemy."


Fact 4: If all they were doing was combatting global warming, they would be dispensing at much higher altitude and they probably would love to take the credit for saving humanity from an oven, so something more sinister is probably going on (Your guess is as good as mine)

At least you admit this part is just idle speculation on your part.


Don't you know that the best place to hide something is in plain view?

And the best way to prove a conspiracy is to define any denial as complicity in the conspiracy, and hence, proof the conspiracy exists in the first place. (See above, again.)
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