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Joined: 10/30/2009
Msg: 26
The New Jewish LobbyPage 3 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
New Jewish lobby!!!!!!!!!!!!! An interesting cover up of the same old same old.
hahahaha... there is no such thing as democratic jewish lobby or republican jewish lobby. Both are the same and kicking since 1947/48.

Many democratic presidents came and gone, there was absolutely no change in USA's timeless foreign policy.

Jewish people are in general smart people. The change will come only when smart Israelis within Israel speak out and want change, just like the news I heard long time ago that a group of IDF refused to bomb on civilians in Palestine.

Now, if you excuse me, this Anti-Semite has to go and call his jewish girlfriend to watch Fiddler on the Roof for the 100th times.
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 27
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The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/17/2009 1:27:31 PM

want to travel ... there is no wrong doing by isreal, only arab crimes, isreal only defends herself, this post is anti semetic
itechman63 ... I believe he was being facetious.
want to travel ... i dont use the term palestinian because theres no such thing, they are just arabs living in isreal, are criminals they go to jail at one point or another.... they vote for a known terrorist govmt,that not only wants to wipe out isreal, but also shows hostility to all free and democratic states this thread is anti semetic and should be shut down
Gee, it kind of looks like he was dead serious.

want to travel ... there is no wrong doing by isreal, only arab crimes, isreal only defends herself, this post is anti semetic

edisto ...according to Amnesty Internation:
Israel uses more than 80 per cent of the water source in Israel and only allows Palestinian access to 20 percent

some 180,000-200,000 Palestinians living in rural communities have no access to running water and the Israeli army often prevents them from even collecting rainwater

in contrast, Israeli settlers, who live in the West Bank in violation of international law, have intensive-irrigation farms, lush gardens and swimming pools

So, how is keeping the source of life- water- from Palestinians - Israel defending itself exactly?
Be careful "edisto ... it's not good to make honest statements like that ... you're considered (by some) to be "anti-Semite" if you point out things like that.

"itechman63" ... I have a feeling you really just have not read enough to know what you need to know. You appear to be naïve and probably do need to do a lot more research on the subject before actually deciding just how you feel about the whole situation.

I admit ... it helps to have friends on both sides of the "wall" in order to get a more balanced picture of what is truly going on. I have my resources but they are personal friends who have lived it and give me first hand information. It's nothing like you'll ever see outside of perhaps that very good movie that was made a while back. It's very informative ...
Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land: Media & the Israel-Palestine Conflict

I'd also suggest having a good conversation with folks like "edisto" and "NoBushLover " and "mungojoe" and the OP of this thread ..."xxxDINOxxx". They appear to be very well-informed in a way that you might benefit.

OT ...
Anything other than that despicable lobby group ... AIPAC. It will be extremely difficult to compete for money as AIPAC uses their "strong arm" technique well and may just try to "strong arm" this other lobby group out. I just hope they can hold out.
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 28
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The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/17/2009 6:35:37 PM
^^^^"edisto" did you not see that film where the Israelis were chasing the Palestinians off their land and then build on it illegally. The Israeli Interior Ministry then went in, tore their half-built building down and told them they couldn't do that, but right after they left, a lady just looked at the camera and basically said that they will keep at it because they know that if they can settle the land and take hold of it ... it will be theirs and the Palestinians will not get it back. When I saw that film ... I was reminded of what a Jewish friend in Berlin once told me.

My Jewish friends in Berlin have told me how much they detest what is going on over there. The gentleman (formerly my OB/GYN while I was living in Germany) said he used to hear people whispering about Jews when he was young ... he said the people were saying ... "They just move in and take over."

He was young and didn't understand it but he said he remembers running home crying and telling his mother that people were talking about Jews and then told her what they said. It was during the war ... before they began to round up the Jews. Shortly after that he said they went into hiding (in the rural area close to where we lived). I lived there between 1975 and 1985. I first met him when he was taking care of me during my 3rd pregnancy.

His family and my family became good friends and we all (as well as the children) still correspond. The children also want nothing to do with being Jewish ... they find the Israeli behavior despicable and do not want to be associated with it in any way. The oldest son is a graphic artist at heart but studied to be an attorney ... now specializes in patent law, their daughter is a semi-professional musician, and their youngest son is a teacher.

When I was visiting with them in late 2000 ... he told me he's ashamed to identify with Jews ... has been for a long time now. This man's mother was Jewish and his father was a protestant.

OT ...
Let's just hope the new lobby can make some sort of difference.

Didn't OBAMA recently tell the Israelis to stop building the illegal settlements?
The struggle over Israel’s settlements
President Obama wants the Israelis to freeze settlement construction. Why won’t they?

Thursday, October 1, 2009
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The struggle over Israel’s settlements

Beyond the wall, settlements are still growing. (Corbis)

How did the settlements come about?
They’re the result of Israel’s victory in the Six Day War in 1967. When the Israelis drove back massed troops from Egypt, Syria, and Jordan, they gained control of the Gaza Strip, which was previously controlled by Egypt, and the West Bank (including East Jerusalem), which was part of Jordan. Israel soon began establishing Jewish settlements in those areas, both as military buffers against its Arab enemies and as political “facts on the ground” to solidify its hold on the disputed territories. Spearheading the settlement movement, then and now, are religious Zionists who believe in a “greater Israel” stretching from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean. Establishment of a greater Israel, they believe, will fulfill a biblical mandate, hastening the coming of the Messiah. “We build small heavens here,” says settler Arie Lipo. “We are the people of the Bible.”

Are all settlers religious?
No. Some 35 percent are secular and were drawn to the outposts for quality-of-life reasons, not theology. Israel is a tiny and crowded country, and for secular Israelis, the settlements beckon the same way American suburbs did in the 1950s and 1960s. Over the years, successive Israeli governments encouraged settlements by offering an array of housing, education, and tax subsidies and by building power and sewer lines and roads. Apartments in the Ma’ale Adumim settlement cost one-third as much as those in Jerusalem, just four miles away. Municipal worker Benny Raz moved to the Karnei Shomron settlement, near the Palestinian city of Nablus, because housing subsidies enabled him to upgrade to a spacious four-bedroom house. “I came just for a good life,” he says. “It wasn’t ideological.”

What are these communities like?
Scattered throughout the West Bank’s hilly, rocky terrain, some resemble booming suburbs, with high rises or rows of homes with red-tiled roofs. Others are rural and isolated, consisting of a couple dozen metal shacks and pre-fabricated trailers on unpaved fields, patrolled by a few wary guards. Ma’ale Adumim, the biggest settlement, is home to 30,000 Jews and boasts a large shopping mall, several schools, and a recreation center. Altogether, about 300,000 Israeli citizens now reside in 121 settlements in the West Bank, which is also home to 2.5 million Palestinians. An additional 200,000 Israelis live in new East Jerusalem neighborhoods built since Israel captured the area in 1967. Some 9,000 Israelis were living in 21 settlements in Gaza, but they were evacuated when Israel decided to unilaterally withdraw from that troubled area in 2005. (See below).

Are the settlements legal?
While most are legal under Israeli law, they are widely regarded as illegal under the Geneva Conventions, which bars the settling of civilians in occupied territory. The United Nations, the International Court of Justice, and many Western nations have declared the settlements illegal. But Israel’s government says the settlements constitute legitimate self-defense, since they keep hostile Palestinians farther away from Israel proper and thus impede military attacks and terrorist incursions.
Amazing ... the Israelis steal the land and build settlements so that they can have the "good life" while the Palestinians live in squalor.

Continues ...
Does this dispute affect peace talks?
Yes. The Palestinians have refused to resume peace talks with Israel unless settlement growth is frozen, including what Israel calls the “natural growth” of existing settlements. This growth, Israel says, allows the adult children of settlers to set up their own homes and apartments. Critics say the settlements, security fences, roads, and military infrastructure around them now constitute about 40 percent of the West Bank, cutting the territory into disjointed subdivisions and making a Palestinian state impossible. “Natural growth in an illegal settlement doesn’t make it legal,” says Palestinian lawmaker Mustafa Barghouti. “Any continuation of settlement growth is going to end the two-state solution.”

What is Israel’s position?
Essentially, that the settlements are valuable bargaining chips, to be traded only if the Palestinians and other Arab states renounce terrorism and recognize Israel’s right to exist. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said that Israel will not build any new settlements but can expand existing ones—especially on land Israel hopes to end up with after any final-status deals with the Palestinians. Indeed, in recent weeks Netanyahu has approved hundreds of new units in settlements, drawing rebukes not only from the Arabs but also from the White House. A complete freeze, Netanyahu says, would unfairly disrupt the “normal life” of the settlers.
Sooooo ... basically stolen land ... right? And they're just going to proceed as usual so as not to disrupt the "normal live" of the thieving settlers. (Or is that the thieving Israeli government?)

Continues ...
What is the U.S. position?
In contrast to the Bush administration, the Obama administration has pressured Israel for a full settlement freeze. But with Netanyahu refusing to bend, Obama now is calling on both sides to resume talks without preconditions, leaving the settlement issue for later. “It is past time to stop talking about starting negotiations,” Obama said last week. “It is time to move forward.” Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat says Israel’s defiance has damaged Obama’s credibility. “If Obama cannot stop settlement activities,” Erekat says, “who in the Arab world is going to believe he can reach an agreement on borders, Jerusalem, and refugees?”

It happened in Gaza
When then–Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s government decided in 2005 to abandon Gaza, there were widespread concerns that the 1,700 mostly Orthodox Jewish families living on settlements there would resort to violent resistance. But in the end, the evacuation, overseen by thousands of Israeli troops, proceeded peacefully, taking only one week. Israel and the Palestinians agreed that the buildings, including 38 synagogues, would be razed, and the Israeli army undertook that task after residents left. The bodies of 50 Jews buried in the area were relocated. Israel’s religious parties, part of Netanyahu’s ruling coalition, remain bitter about the evacuation and are strenuously opposing a similar move in the West Bank. Still, many settlers acknowledge that they would not engage in armed conflict with their fellow Jews in the Israeli army. “We are idealists,” says settler Ayelet Sandak, who was removed from her Gaza settlement and now is helping to build a new one in the West Bank, “but we are not crazy.”

Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 30
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The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/22/2009 8:57:18 PM
From the OP ...
... it confirms the fact that one can be in favor of Israel's continued existence, and yet still question or even seriously criticize its policies and actions without being thought of as a hater of Jews.
For many there is no middle point.

One cannot question the Zionist regime and the despicable things they do without being considered a "hater of Jews" ... or "anti-Semite" as is evident of the following post ...
... this post is anti semetic
Why is it "anti-Semitic"?

Are the Jewish people (living in Israel) who oppose the current Zionist regime ...
also considered "anti-Semites"?

If they support the new Jewish lobby ... would they also be considered "traitors" ...
or as well as "anti-Semites"?

Shouldn't we be glad that there truly is a lobbying group interested in representing something other than the just the Zionist regime ... something other than just killing off the Palestinians and stealing their land ... actually interested in peace?

J Street "fills a vacuum" in the American Israel advocacy community, said Meir Sheetrit, one of several opposition members of Israel's Knesset who attended the conference. He said AIPAC's no-questions-asked support for the current right-leaning government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has turned off younger Jews who are concerned not only about Israel but also about the rights of the Palestinians.
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 31
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The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/23/2009 5:12:41 PM
Messages 42 and 43 ...
What does Amnesty International have to do with a new Jewish Lobby that wants peace in the Middle East?

Just asking.
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 34
The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/26/2009 9:15:09 PM
I don't think we need genetic studies to tell us Jews are descended from a band of proscripts from Mesopotamia and are therefore related to the Arabs of the region. History tells us that.

One question clouds my mind: Were the Khazar Jews include in the study? That the Sephardim would have genetic markers similar to the Arabs of the region seems to be obvious but, how could the Khazars have the same markers since they did not become Jews until the 9th century and are of Turkic origin and were never anywhere near Palestine?
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 35
The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/28/2009 6:44:11 PM
these genelological studies seem to have some criticism about their selectiveness in examples, however the conclusions are startling. Eaastern European Jews are not Khazars at all, they are in fact: Arabs, since those markers are most prevalent amongst the Palestinians, Syrians and Jordanians. That they do not resemble The Palestinians, Syrians and Jordanians and indeed look Eastern European must be attributed to climate, after all, Swedes are actuall black Africans having migrated to Sweden many centuries ago.
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 36
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The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 12/5/2012 7:38:56 PM
"If Palestinians put down their weapons, their would be no more war. If Jews put down their weapons, there would be no more Israel." -Netanyahu
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