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 flexi1224
Joined: 9/20/2009
Msg: 52
separated but still living together... to believe or notPage 2 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
Angelfish you do not know what you are talking about.There are, I am sure people just as you describe but I am, absolutely,catagorically NOT one of them.My wife is a controlling,manipulative,selfabsorbed,b1tch.She could care less about being a good parent but would take the kids off me just because she could.Knowing this I chose to put my kids first and not walk out.Now that my boys are old enough to see for themselves what is what,they have told me to leave her and that is what I am doing.I have been without any female attention of any sort for years and want to meet some women to at least re-acquaint myself with the opposite sex.It has nothing to do with wanting cake and eating it too.That sounds more like sour grapes on your part.
 Svetlana Blue
Joined: 6/23/2009
Msg: 53
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/1/2009 4:02:30 AM
This is really a no brainer; unless you are into endless drama, BS and child play. And a lot of people on here are into it. Simple. he is still married. So, why are you asking US these questions? Find a man who does not have this type of crap going on period. I do not get why people insist on questioning people who are still, in some way, shape or form, IN RELATIONSHIPS. I do not think you are "dubious". I will take the 5th on what I think you are.
 ffryan
Joined: 10/10/2005
Msg: 54
view profile
History
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/1/2009 5:49:20 AM
If you like the guy and he seems into you, yes it's worth pursuing..... after he moves out.
 hard starboard
Joined: 6/21/2008
Msg: 56
view profile
History
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/1/2009 6:29:02 AM
The thread title is an oxymoron. Believe it.
 yourscooter62
Joined: 9/27/2009
Msg: 59
view profile
History
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/1/2009 1:19:12 PM
so what do you think i a couple is married and one has an affair ,that one moves out.
then the other spouse starts dating before D is granted...is that acceptable then?
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 64
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/1/2009 4:26:26 PM
Someone's situation of separated, broken up, going thru divorce, "still" living together, etc., is ALWAYS exaggerated to make them a better choice. Always exaggerated, even if it's not that bad of a situation or seems like it wouldn't have to be. Even someone who broke up with someone not too long ago. Doesn't mean it's always the worst situation... just remember that you can't take their word for it.

Is it worth pursuing? Depends on what you have in mind. If you have ANY expectations of a real relationship with them -- ABSOLUTELY NOT.

If you're not emotionally vulnerable and are up for a fling? Sure. Just make sure to let the guy in that position know that you're not looking for a relationship with them due to their situation but you're open to casually date here and there with them. If you say that directly, they won't have any reason to lie & exaggerate too much to make it look better.
 NotElvisJunior
Joined: 6/8/2008
Msg: 65
view profile
History
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/2/2009 8:53:43 PM
It must be gratifying to be able to see everything as black and white like that - life must be so simple to know all the answers and to be able to pigeonhole everyone.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 77
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/3/2009 9:00:31 PM

It must be gratifying to be able to see everything as black and white like that - life must be so simple to know all the answers and to be able to pigeonhole everyone

Oh, no no no no. I'm not a "pigeonholer" any more than 99.999% of the population, and most likely yourself included, actually. By your rationale, breaking something down in black & white for one thing means you do it to everyone about everything. Yah, right.

Example: Saying no to someone trying to pursue a -relationship- with someone who is happily married but wants a serious side relationship "pigeonholing"? If so, then I think we're all pigeonholers. We're seeing it black and white! Life must be so simple for all of us to know all the answers to be able to pigeonhole everyone (since it's just one case, right?). How rude and stereotypical we are for that flaky assumption that they shouldn't pursue a relationship with a happily married person! And in all honesty, technically, it COULD work out with not too much drama. ULTRA ULTRA low % chance in this example, but COULD.... so that means you give every option a shot, right? ;)

In the example of someone separated & still living together -- technically, yes, a very low % that something healthy could develop upon genuinely dating them with no huge obstacles. But which side would win in a 7 game series with the "it'll be just fine!" given a 2 game lead to start off? Not the "it'll just be fine!".

One guy said it best at the top of this page. Have them meet the person you're living with -- if they can't do that, there's too much drama. There can be a babysitter, so the kids don't have to be there... the guy could come over not "as the boyfriend" in front of the kids. It's not like all adults are banned from a household.

If they could do that, MAYBE. Is it worth signing up for? Uhh, no. People who aren't in datable situations shouldn't cry out to strangers online to give them a shot for genuine dating.
 NotElvisJunior
Joined: 6/8/2008
Msg: 78
view profile
History
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/3/2009 9:20:51 PM
These are not parallel situations... and you are the one that was using the words ALWAYS, ANY, and so forth.

Basically, you wrote it as:
- it is ALWAYS the case that someone's exaggerating in these situations, that you can't take their word for it
- It is ABSOLUTELY NOT worth pursuing if you have ANY expectations of a serious relationship.


Now, though, you're at least saying "low percentage" etc... Still, your "happily married and wants a serious side relationship" - yeah, that might be a way of saying there ARE situations where there could be an absolute answer.

However, it's irrelevant to this thread - it's completely unrelated.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 79
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/4/2009 4:47:47 AM
NotEvlis,

It must be gratifying to be able to see everything as black and white like that - life must be so simple to know all the answers and to be able to pigeonhole everyone.

Look who said "ALL THE ANSWERS". :) So for someone making an absolute statement, you retort by making an even greater one, then say....

and you are the one that was using the words ALWAYS, ANY, and so forth.

Tsk tsk.

Yes, I made an absolute statement, and my 2nd post points out that TECHNICALLY pretty much any situation COULD have some crazy exception that makes the history books... so let's rules those out.

For it being ALWAYS the case that people will exaggerate, you fail to point out that that was not my main point of judgement on the topic, as I point out that even if their situation isn't that bad (see, I wasn't blanketingly demonizing situations folks like yourself are/have been in.).

So on the point of exaggeration -- hell yes. But let me make myself more clear. When they come across that their situation is just fine and pretty normal and "oh yes" they're ready for a relationship, etc. -- that is where I place the absolutism of SOME form of exaggeration, conscious or otherwise. And that's saying it lightly. :)

As far as one ABSOLUTELY NOT chase some new stranger who's separated & living with their wife/husband with a near-future relationship in mind? Are you kidding me? That is not too far off from that someone else being someone you've known for years but who's also married with content but wants a side relationship.

The reason I verablize it at such absolutes (and rid of the slight oddball %) is because if you tell someone who WANTS something to be true/okay/its-worth-it/etc, and there's a 99% chance it's NOT... to them, it will seem like a 50-50 shot when it comes down to it. It's "a chance", and they'll waste their time. Hence, "ABSOLUTELY NOT".
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 81
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:01:44 AM
The bottom line is that someone in that situation is not past the last relationship - and so shouldn't be starting a new one. Unless everyone is so ok with it that you can go over there for dinner, and even then - the arrangement they are puts dating on the back burner.

Basically, it's this attitude of instant gratification where someone is in a situation where they should be focusing on other things, but won't put off dating because they selfishly think they deserve to date (NOW!) while still married (which is what separation is, a trial period before divorce).
 allymygirl2009
Joined: 2/27/2009
Msg: 82
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:41:32 AM
NO!.. run...and you might also get the excuses we are living together ONLY becuase of the kids or finances. I have not been back dating long , But have had 2 guys already same deal, although kuddo's to yours for telling you prior to going out rather then at the end of the date.. Good Luck..
 allymygirl2009
Joined: 2/27/2009
Msg: 83
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:47:38 AM
I totally disagree, It is not healthy to stay in the same home for the sake of the kids, that is not showing children what a real marriage is . Kids learn from what they see, mommy & daddy not talking . or showing any love towards one another and even worse hearing fighting, No not healthy.
 NotElvisJunior
Joined: 6/8/2008
Msg: 88
view profile
History
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/4/2009 9:54:26 PM
Confident-Realist wrote:

It must be gratifying to be able to see everything as black and white like that - life must be so simple to know all the answers and to be able to pigeonhole everyone.
Look who said "ALL THE ANSWERS". :) So for someone making an absolute statement, you retort by making an even greater one, then say....


Yes, I did, but it's not because I believe in that sort of thing - rather I was mocking the fact that you do. Or appeared to; your subsequent posts seem to say differently.

Confident-Realist wrote:
But let me make myself more clear. When they come across that their situation is just fine and pretty normal and "oh yes" they're ready for a relationship, etc. -- that is where I place the absolutism of SOME form of exaggeration, conscious or otherwise.

But no different than anyone else anywhere, anytime, whether they're separated or not. You can't judge emotional preparedness based on living situation. I mean, you can go ahead and do so, you just don't have any greater chance of accuracy.

Confident-Realist wrote:
As far as one ABSOLUTELY NOT chase some new stranger who's separated & living with their wife/husband with a near-future relationship in mind? Are you kidding me? That is not too far off from that someone else being someone you've known for years but who's also married with content but wants a side relationship.

Are you kidding? There's no similarity. In fact, it might be safe to say you're more likely to run into that with someone who is NOT married, separated, living together, or what have you because they have no legal nor logistical ties - they can string multiple partners along without fear of discovery.

The separated-and-living-together is putting it out in front right there...
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 89
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/5/2009 11:38:13 AM
NotElvis,

But no different than anyone else anywhere, anytime, whether they're separated or not.

Well, yes, separated, recently broken up, still "hang out" with an ex of recent memory, etc. But the topic that these are about are more important (hence more apt to exaggerate) than say "how often do you work out?".

You can't judge emotional preparedness based on living situation.

So you're just calling it "a living situation", huh? OMG. She's definitely considered still your WIFE if you're living with her, separated or not. Why? Because there's no separation! Just because due to financial reasons you can't separate doesn't mean "in spirit we are; trust me, even though I'm a stranger on the internet". Come on. You can say "no but we don't do anything together"... yes, and regular married couples can say the same thing, too. You have to lie in the bed you make -- even if it's allegedly in another room in the house. :)

That is not too far off from that someone else being someone you've known for years but who's also married with content but wants a side relationship.

This quote I made -- no, they are different situations, but let me make myself clear... it's the chances of it being a stupid idea that are the same. And there IS similarity, but I in no way said they were clone situations. Again, point is, they're equally stupid to walk into. Do each have "a chance"? Well, yeah, depends on what you mean... actually, what the married guy means by a "healthy relationship". To *HIM* it's different. In both situations, he's been married and living with a woman, romantically or not, and ANYTHING is healthy to him, because he wants to be in the dating circle. So if you take "healthy relationship" in a relative way, sure, anything could be "healthy".

But if you're LIVING WITH your wife who's a soon-to-be-official-ex, you can't expect ANYONE to assume there are no romantic ties. COME. ON.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 90
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/5/2009 11:41:01 AM

Everyone's situation is different and unless you are in that situation, you have NO idea how you would react or handle it.

Yes, everyone's situation is different... and yours may be better than a lot of others, but that's not the point. The situation itself is not good for dating, nor would someone in that situation be in position to dating someone they just met. Nobody has an obligation to get knee-deep into situations with you while you're living with your Later-than-sooner-to-be-ex-husband to find out if things are "okay" enough.
 misszmsz
Joined: 5/31/2008
Msg: 91
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/5/2009 3:28:30 PM
Got an email message from a cute guy with a great smile. Everything looked super until that I saw that he was seperated.

Returned his email, and stated that I liked his smile, but was not into dating guys that were still married. Thought that would be the end of it.

He sent another email, wrote that I was closed minded for rejecting him on that basis, without knowing the details. Seems he was staying with his wife for "medical insurance reasons."

Sent him a so sorry for about your health problem email. Again complimented his smile, but really wanted to focus on men that were available.

Even when ex's don't live together, they sometimes still hook up for sex after picking up or dropping the kids off. Most people get divorced for other than sexual reasons. The familiar sex was the best part of thier relationship.

Trust me he is still doing his wife, telling her they're trying to work it out, sleeping in the same bed every night. Just wait until you find a truly available man.
 yah00
Joined: 8/31/2008
Msg: 94
view profile
History
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/6/2009 10:04:57 AM
Once again it really does not matter what the topic you're discussing I find it truly amazing the number of people who feel it is ok to be overly critical about people who obviously do not share their views on life and how things should be.

I propose such an individual would be far happier if they spent as much time on their own "issues" as they spend pointing out the issues they have with other folks! For example ask yourself how does ****ing about how someone else is dating or not fix your dating problem? Even if you're asked out by one of these folks it's easy to say "no thank you" and move on about your business.

I do understand the original post more because it dealt with the question about lying. This is a different point of conversation than most of the responses which lean more to judging other people's dating habits regardless of how honest they are being with those they are dating.

I imagine the more adamant the response the more likely the respondent is desperate and dateless. I also imagine these folks are venting frustrations that steam from more than just this subject matter presented here.

If you have difficulty getting a date or connecting with people it is rarely a singular issue creating this problem. Furthermore contrary to what most think it's not everyone else who is to blame for your situation. Do not kid yourself you got some issues in there somewhere. Just sayin, if you appear or are actually overly angry about the activity of others when you were not a direct participant, "why is that?" is the question you need to ask yourself. Do not hate me but people often do not realize just how negative they are or how it has consumed them until someone points it out.

Absolutely nothing other people do unless your a party to it should really piss you off! You either have too much time or are just bored with your own existence! The good news is you can change this cycle. Sadly the bad news is you are the only one who can affect change in your life.

 NotElvisJunior
Joined: 6/8/2008
Msg: 99
view profile
History
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 2:00:52 PM
Confident Realist wrote:
This quote I made -- no, they are different situations, but let me make myself clear... it's the chances of it being a stupid idea that are the same.

That is what I assumed you meant. And that is what I disagree with, along with the following statement.

Confident Realist wrote:
Again, point is, they're equally stupid to walk into.


Confident Realist wrote:
But if you're LIVING WITH your wife who's a soon-to-be-official-ex, you can't expect ANYONE to assume there are no romantic ties. COME. ON.


DJ-78 wrote:
What I don't get is why if a person chooses not to get involved with someone who is seperated all of a sudden they become the bad guy?


They aren't because of that specifically. They are a "bad guy" if they're making assumptions about the separated person.

For example, just before your post, it was written by misszmsz that:
Even when ex's don't live together, they sometimes still hook up for sex after picking up or dropping the kids off....

Trust me he is still doing his wife, telling her they're trying to work it out, sleeping in the same bed every night.


Add then Confident Realist's view that:

But if you're LIVING WITH your wife who's a soon-to-be-official-ex, you can't expect ANYONE to assume there are no romantic ties. COME. ON.


THESE seem to be the predominant attitudes. THESE assumptions are, also, in my estimation, likely to be FAR less likely than most people assume of separated couples. THESE attitudes what makes the person choosing not to get involved with a separated person "the bad guy" . . . the fact that they automatically decide that separated equals "still screwing the ex, or very likely to, and definitely just using me for a rebound rather than any potential for a serious relationship."

Now, if there's other reasons, that'll be different. Sun Devil's brought up his own personal experiences, and I'm actually fine with that - basically, if I understand it, he won't date while he himself is in a "separated" situation, and won't date those who're in that situation themselves.

But the automatic assumption of "oh, there's convenient sex right there" excuse is just, it seems to me, projecting one's own dysfunction and neuroses on someone else. It may be right for any particular person, it may be wrong, but the fact that they're separated doesn't make it any different than for a single person who has been in a previous relationship.

UNLESS, of course, people who "won't do separated on the basis of they're still having sex" think that one must have ZERO contact with ANYONE they've dated or had a relationship with before.... is that the running assumption here? An "I won't touch you unless you cut off any and all contact with any and all exes" kind of thing?




Look, ultimately, my view basically boils down to the fact that telling oneself that avoiding a separated person is somehow "safer," somehow avoiding potential problems with the relationship or avoiding a non-serious relationship, or avoiding a person who is not ready... those are nothing more than assumptions, and ones that are self-illusory at best. A way of telling oneself that you've dodged a bullet and that the "divorced" or "single" guy is definitely 100% the safer bet. It isn't, but it's comforting to tell oneself that it is.

COULD there be problems lurking? Sure. Are the chances any greater than with anyone else? Probably not.
 mixy3106
Joined: 2/20/2009
Msg: 100
view profile
History
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 3:17:14 PM
Legally speaking:
separated = still married. period. The emotional relationship may be over but you are still legally married to that person and not free to enter into a new marriage with a new person.

According to the IRS, there are only a few ways to represent yourself on your tax returns.
There are:
Married, filing jointly
Married, filing separately
Single
Head of Household
Until you are fully and finally divorced, you HAVE to file your taxes as married so why should you be able to represent yourself differently in the dating world? "Individuals are considered married if they were legally married and not legally separated under a decree of divorce as of the last day of the tax year."---IRS website

If I'm hoping to meet someone I click with and want to get married myself eventually, why the heck would I waste my time with someone who was still married to someone else? I want to meet someone who is free to enter into a new marriage if that's where the relationship leads so I avoid separated men. End the first relationship fully and then talk to me.
 NotElvisJunior
Joined: 6/8/2008
Msg: 101
view profile
History
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 4:18:58 PM
The whole IRS thing is a sort of silly argument, isn't it? As is the legal aspect?

I mean, in all honesty, HOW fast did you want to marry the guy that you meet? Is the pending divorce really THAT much of an obstacle to your desire to marry the guy? You did say "eventually" after all . . which I assume doesn't mean "within 6 months of meeting the guy"
 mixy3106
Joined: 2/20/2009
Msg: 104
view profile
History
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:28:23 PM
I really don't think the legal or tax aspects are silly. Both demonstrate that you are still tied to your former partner.

I just want to meet someone who is free to enter into a new relationship fully. If a man has not extricated himself completely from his previous relationship (marriage or otherwise), I'm not interested. I'm not looking to meet someone and elope immediately but I know how long it takes to pick up the pieces after a divorce, particularly in a community property state like mine. So waiting for someone to complete a divorce and then complete the recovery process is not that great of an option. It wouldn't be waiting 6 months, it would be waiting 3-4 years before it's even an option. That's assuming that the divorce is actually moving forward. After reading some of these boards, it seems that some people are content to remain separated forever and never go through with the divorce even though they claim the marriage has been ended for years. To me, that just seems horribly unfair to the new partner who may wish to get married at some point. But hey, to each his own. As long as both people know what they are getting into......

Several years ago, I discovered that the guy I had just started seeing was married.....though he swore he was about to file for divorce. (He never did) It wasn't a pretty scene. After that, I won't even consider anyone unless they are 100% available....not partially married, not kinda divorced, not somewhat separated. Either never married or 100% divorced. For me, there's just no middle ground.
 NotElvisJunior
Joined: 6/8/2008
Msg: 106
view profile
History
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:38:35 PM
That particular instance isn't really a good indicator though - he lied to you from the get-go... or so I think, since it appears that the still-married status came as a surprise to you? (ie: he didn't tell you he was currently separated or still married?)

mixy3106 wrote:
but I know how long it takes to pick up the pieces after a divorce, particularly in a community property state like mine. So waiting for someone to complete a divorce and then complete the recovery process is not that great of an option. It wouldn't be waiting 6 months, it would be waiting 3-4 years before it's even an option.

Uh, I'm not sure I follow - but I don't know how Texas community property laws work. Can you elaborate?

Also, what's the "recovery process"? Is that something that can be legally done after the divorce to go for assets, or am I misinterpreting something?


mixy3106 wrote:
That's assuming that the divorce is actually moving forward. After reading some of these boards, it seems that some people are content to remain separated forever and never go through with the divorce even though they claim the marriage has been ended for years.

This once again assumes someone lying. Which, can happen with anyone.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 109
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:09:58 PM
My response to it just being a formality for someone to not be divorced is why they made it a formality to be married; "it's just a piece of paper, it's over except for that" and all. They didn't have to make the marriage official in the beginning either, but they did. Same concept on both ends.

People only seem to ignore the second legal contract, but the first one seemed to have had to happen. *shrug*
 Helen0426
Joined: 6/2/2009
Msg: 115
separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/8/2009 3:25:15 PM

Personally I think that separated people often are the ones trying to push dating them.

That isn't even a matter of opinion, at least on the forums here, but of observable empirical fact. I'm sure that most who are at all inclined to discuss the matter, regardless of where we fall on this, have noticed, if we look at the profiles of posters promoting dating the separated, that it usually says "Separated."

IMO it's pretty easy to spot the separated people who really are emotionally together, dealing with the separation well, and genuinely ready for something new. There just aren't a whole lot of 'em.
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