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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 101
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare optionPage 5 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
Health Care and Public Opinion
By Michael J Pentecost, MD


...Polling is also confounded by the complexity of medical care with its intricate science and arcane language. For instance, the public has expressed little concern about infectious diseases as a health problem, but regards ebola, mad cow disease, and West Nile virus as major worries.11

Finally, the one issue that is difficult to tease out of the polling is a unique type of selection bias. That is, while the polls carefully select a representative sample of the general population, this group may have a skewed view of health care. For example, 5% of the public consume 50% of health care dollars annually with the other half spread out among the healthier 95%.12 Is it realistic to think that the healthy half is as experienced as their unhealthy neighbors? As concerned about costs? Disturbed by poor quality?

Although 5% consume half of health care resources, one in five Americans spends nothing annually for medical care. When polled, suppose all of the unhealthy 5% believed that the quality of health care was terrible, the costs outrageous and access wretched. And the 20% who spent nothing thought everything was fine. That would mean that four times more Americans were satisfied than dissatisfied, but would this be an accurate reflection of the status of health care?



http://xnet.kp.org/permanentejournal/summer06/opinion.html

11 - # Blendon RJ, Scoles K, DesRoches C, et al. Americans' health priorities: curing cancer and controlling costs. Health Aff (Millwood) 2001 Nov-Dec;20(6):222-32.

12 - Halvorson GC. Commentary--Current MSA theory: well-meaning but futile. Health Serv Res 2004 Aug;39(4 Pt 2):1119-22.
 motownmaniax
Joined: 8/13/2006
Msg: 102
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/19/2010 8:56:20 AM
Tokie, you actually hit on the main cause of why our healthcare is broken—our “for profit” system that rewards excessive procedures and tests, most of which are simply not needed. Some of this mindset can be blamed on our culture of suing doctors/hospitals/pharmaceuticals/(probably even the person holding the door to your room when admitted) at the drop of a hat, but certainly not in every case.

As for rationing, we already have that right now. Any person that gets dropped for preexisting conditions, or opts out simply because they can’t pay, or has barely adequate coverage because they can’t pay for more is suffering from rationed care. And those ranks are continually increasing by the hundreds of thousands. Soon it’ll be in the millions.

Our industrialized brethren have better national healthcare that covers practically every citizen while controlling costs/spending because of stringent price controls, what can be charged, who can charge, what doctors/nurses/other healthcare professionals can be paid, gatekeepers to reduce procedural excesses, universal coverage mandates, etc. And just who is the prime mover of all that? Government, because leaving reform to private industry was found unworkable and even more wasteful.

I agree that the biggest reason we have such an unhealthy nation is because of culture. We eat too much unhealthy food and exercise way too little. We don’t do enough preventive medicine and spend enough on education, but one of the main reasons behind "that" is because most people don’t take advantage of the benefits good healthcare can provide because our system's so expensive.

Are the healthcare versions as they’re crafted right now the ultimate fix? Of course not, and anyone expecting a magic bullet is delusional (and that goes even to supporters), but to scrap everything and start over is just another way of saying wait another decade or more for real reform, if at all.

Maybe what it will take is to kill current reform and let things get so bad Congress will be "forced" to institute Draconian measures that will make criticisms of the present bills look pedantic in comparison.
 motownmaniax
Joined: 8/13/2006
Msg: 103
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/19/2010 10:26:16 AM
For those that want to keep the status quo because they currently have excellent coverage, you’re going under the assumption your care will “stay the same” for years to come and government "interference" will destroy it.

If nothing is done to reform the system, healthcare cost spirals will guarantee more people without coverage, and higher premiums with less coverage for those that can still afford it.

You’re betting circumstances will remain unchanged, that people currently covered on employer plans will keep it or people lucky enough to have excellent coverage can still afford it. That’s your right, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on it.

By far the single best primer on "why" we need reform and comparisons with other countries that do it much better than us can be found at this link.

Sick Around The World
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

I urge anyone with even the slightest interest in this debate to spend some quality time and watch it.
 grizzelda
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 104
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History
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/19/2010 10:52:13 AM
Can you please explain what rationing healthcare means to you? What exactly do you think is going to happen if this proposal happens? I dont want you to cut & paste a 5000 word essay written by someone else, I would like you to describe what you think is going to happen...
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 105
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History
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/19/2010 12:55:52 PM

As discussed in msg 173 care will more than likely have to be rationed in some manner ...
And as is already apparent ... most of what was posted in that message has already been clarified ... and it was obvious that the poster was mistaken.

Since our health care shortage has not been addressed, health care rationing will be more wide spread with the added people injected into the system.
And it has been addressed ... it's part of the first 14 immediate effects of reform ... See items 13 and 14.

I might add that creating more community health centers and increasing the number of primary care doctors will also create more jobs. Wow ... we get three for the price of one here. We get affordable health care and the creation of more jobs and lower the deficit while we do it.

http://pingree.house.gov/issues/healthcare/14-immediate-effects-of-reform.shtml
14 immediate effects of reform

Top 14 Health Care Reform Provisions That Take Effect Immediately on January 1, 2010
Edited on Sun Nov-22-09 11:40 AM by ClarkUSA
Amid all the negative rumors and misleading assumptions that are floating around here about what the Affordable Health Care For America Act will or will not do for/to Americans, I thought I'd share some actual facts about what positive changes HCR will enact as of January 1, 2010 should the bill now being debated in the Senate be signed into law by President Obama by the end of the year:


1. BEGINS TO CLOSE THE MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE - Reduces the donut hole by $500 and institutes a 50% discount on brand-name drugs, effective January 1. 2010.

2. IMMEDIATE HELP FOR THE UNINSURED UNTIL EXCHANGE IS AVAILABLE (INTERIM HIGH-RISK POLL) - Creates a temporary insurance program until the Exchange is available for individuals who have been uninsured for several months or have been denied a policy because of pre-existing conditions.

3. BANS LIFETIME LIMITS ON COVERAGE - Prohibits health insurance companies from placing lifetime caps on coverage.

4. ENDS RESCISSIONS - Prohibits insurers from nullifying or rescinding a patient's policy when they file a claim for benefits, except in the case of fraud.

5. EXTENDS COVERAGE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE UP TO 27TH BIRTHDAY THROUGH PARENT'S INSURANCE - Requires health plans to allow young people through age 26 to remain n their parents' insurance policy, at the parents' choice.

6. ELIMINATES COST-SHARING FOR PREVENTATIVE SERVICES IN MEDICARE - Eliminates co-payments for preventative services and exempts preventative services from deductibles from the Medicare program.

7. IMPROVES HELP FOR LOW-INCOME MEDICARE BENEFICIARIES - Improves the low-income protection programs in Medicare to assure more individuals are able to access this vital help.

8. PROVIDES NEW CONSUMER PROTECTIONS IN MEDICARE ADVANTAGE - Prohibits Medicare Advantage plans from charging enrollees higher cost-sharing for services in their private plan than what is charged in traditional Medicare.

9. IMMEDIATE SUNSHINE ON PRICE GOUGING - Discourages excessive price increases by insurance companies through review and disclosure of insurance rate increases.

10. CONTINUITY FOR DISPLACED WORKERS - Allows Americans to keep their COBRA coverage until the Exchange is in place and they can access affordable coverage.

11. CREATES NEW, VOLUNTARY, PUBLIC LONG-TERM CARE INSURANCE PROGRAM - Creates a long-term care insurance program to be financed by voluntary payroll deductions to provide benefits to adults who become functionally disabled.

12. HELP FOR EARLY RETIREES - Creates a $10 billion fund to finance a temporary reinsurance program to help offset the costs of expensive health claims for employers that provide health benefits for retirees age 55-64.

13. COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS - Increases funding for Community Health Centers to allow for a doubling of the number of patients seen by the centers over the next 5 years.

14. INCREASING NUMBER OF PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS - Provides new investment in training programs to increase the number of primary doctors, nurses, and public health professionals.


Saying that medical care will be rationed has been a scare tactic the Tea Baggers and Neocons have been using since the beginning just as they used the scare tactic of the notorious death panels (doing away with "granny"). It's all nothing but fiction.

They will stop at nothing to see this President fail.

.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 106
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/19/2010 1:35:53 PM

Let's just computerize all purchases, all medical records, all financial records, and install cameras in everyone's homes... Then big brother can identify people who aren't eating healthy, not exercising enough, not getting taxed enough, or drinking too many sodas, and then force them to cooperate...

I know all that sounds ridiculous, and would have our founding fathers rolling over in their graves, but that is where the Progressives (Socialists) will eventually want to go with this... At what point do you realize your government has gone totally out of control, that the Republic has been lost


I just flashed on an image of Chicken Little sitting in a rocking chair on his veranda with a 12-guage cradled in his lap...

So now "Progressives" want to put cameras in your home...? A bit 'over-the-top' don't you think... ? Nah, probably not...

has now become a totalitarian oligarchy?

A day late and a dollar short... That bullet was dodged when all the dominionist Christian conservatives got their butts handed to them in the last election (and really, they should stop screaming about it, there are public nuisance laws after all)...
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 107
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History
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/19/2010 3:19:36 PM

... knows by now what the Democrats are proclaiming the as the immediate effects of the Health Care bill.
Yes ... it's all been consistent. What's the problem with posting it in the threads ... for people to see?

Is there anything newer than this?
Why don't you tell us?

... or will this use of political fabrications and political loose talk that we will keep seeing throughout any threads about health care.
LMFAO ... political fabrications and political loose talk ...

The sites where the information can be found have been listed (I've been consistent about that) so maybe the person who calls it "political fabrications and political loose talk" ought to prove why it should be labeled as such?

To me the proof will be when and if this bill becomes effective, especially after the states get done with it.
I seriously doubt the states will do anything once they see the bill pass and then tweaked with the reconciliation process in the Senate. There will be nothing the states can do.

The majority do not support this bill because as even many supporters of this bill have said Politicians have a habit of lying and/or really stretching the truth to get what they want.
Yes we have seen how the Neocons have been lying to the public ... and we have seen the effect of it. The following is a good example of what has become of the Republicans ...

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_03/022907.php
CLASSY.... I suppose it's safe to say we won't be hearing the phrase "compassionate conservatism" again anytime soon.

Supporters and opponents of health care reform assembled outside Rep. Mary Jo Kilroy's (D-Ohio) office yesterday, at times leading to heated exchanges between the two groups. Reader B.T. was on hand for gathering, and sent me this clip, originally published by the Columbus Dispatch.

If you can't watch videos on your work computer, the clip shows a man holding a sign, explaining that he has Parkinson's and needs health care reform to pass. When he sat on the pavement near the reform opponents, a conservative activist proceeded to lecture the man: "You're looking for a hand-out, you're in the wrong end of town. Nothing for free over here, you have to work for everything you get."

Another far-right protestor mocked the man, dropping a dollar bill on him, saying, "I'll pay for this guy. Here you go. Start a pot." Throwing another wadded bill, the protestor added, "I'll decide when to give you money. Here's another one, here you go." A moment later, he shouted at the man sitting on the street: "No more hand-outs."

Someone in the crowd is also heard saying, "You love a communist."

I know Limbaugh thinks it's appropriate to mock people with Parkinson's, but this was just painful to watch.

Here's hoping Mary Jo Kilroy was paying close attention, and realizes that those doing the mocking aren't going to vote for her anyway.


The support is not there and I don't think it will be there in 10 years from now.
Wishful thinking ... eh? Dream on.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 108
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History
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/19/2010 6:21:26 PM

Hey I'm actually looking forward to the not only the judicial face off in Supreme courts around the nation but the face off with Barack Hussein Obama's favorite members of SCOTUS over the constitutionality of the court.


Since no one is doing anything that is "UNconstitutional", I doubt any such confrontation would occur between Barack " blessed" "good" "handsome one" OBAMA and the SCOTUS ... another pipe dream of the desperate Tea Baggers and Neo-GOP's. (I wonder how long it would take for the SCOTUS to clear their rather "full" docket so they can go after Barack " blessed" "good" "handsome one" OBAMA?)
 motownmaniax
Joined: 8/13/2006
Msg: 109
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/20/2010 6:38:47 AM
Critics of any national healthcare plan want it scrapped and to start over. You believe the costs are too high and government intrusion will only make matters worse.

I understand your point .... I "get" it.

The problem with your argument, though, is the consequences of failure right now.

If you think scrapping the present plans and starting from scratch will automatically eliminate everything you find currently objectionable, you’re dreaming. Democrats will not step aside and let Republicans get all they want. (I’ll also submit the Republican Plan addresses fundamental healthcare problems even “less” than the Dem ones.)

If you think starting over from day one will produce a workable plan in a few months or even another year, you’re dreaming. Past experience has shown whenever healthcare reform is killed it takes at least a “decade” or more for it to be revisited again.

Our healthcare costs are approaching 20% of GDP and rising much faster than the rate of inflation. What do you think the costs will be in ten years?? Much more than even the worst cost projections of the present plans. We simply don’t have the luxury to wait that long and let problems fester even more.

I also don’t accept the argument that having government involved in healthcare is evil and socialist.

If you’re a Native American or vet or active duty military, you operate under the British system—government doctors and facilities with zero out of your pocket.

If you’re over 65 and on Medicare, you operate under the Canadian system—private providers and a government insurance plan. We already had the spectacle of seniors screaming at their reps in countless town halls a few months ago to take their “stinking hands off my Medicare!!” If you want government out of the healthcare you better prepare yourselves for the consequences of millions of seniors out for your blood.

Are there huge problems with Medicare? Obviously, and they go to the same absence of political will I see in the present debate, the will to take the steps necessary to reign in costs and stand up to special interests like insurance companies, pharmaceuticals, lawyers, and the like who don’t want their gravy train to stop.

The best way to fix healthcare is to eliminate our “for profit” system, and the only way to do that is from government. Industry will NOT do it on their own. Every country that has universal healthcare for half or less of our costs have taken private profit out of their systems.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 110
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History
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/20/2010 8:48:51 AM

The best way to fix healthcare is to eliminate our “for profit” system, and the only way to do that is from government. Industry will NOT do it on their own. Every country that has universal healthcare for half or less of our costs have taken private profit out of their systems.
Yuppers ... that's the bottom line for me as well.

No system will be flawless. Having lived for extended periods of time with such systems, I've found the pluses outnumber the minuses. Also, as with any health care plan ... there are appeals processes that one can take if one is not pleased with any decision being considered.

What is most important for me right now is that EVERYONE will have access to affordable health care ... and I believe, on the whole, that will be the best for keeping our nation healthy and motivated to remain healthy.

Just one example ...
If people have easier and cheaper access to programs and help for fighting obesity, then they will no doubt use them. Obesity and all the diseases related to the condition ... is killing us way too quickly. It impacts our personal lives as well ... even our physical relationships with our partners. People are going broke dealing with it and eventually, that will no longer be the case.
 motownmaniax
Joined: 8/13/2006
Msg: 111
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/20/2010 8:57:37 AM
If we keep our “for profit” payment system we will never accomplish meaningful reform. It’s that simple.

There’s an inherent conflict in paying for a person’s healthcare and paying a stockholder’s dividend. The incentive of healthcare in this country is to narrow the coverage pool to only those that can afford it (and the income threshold is continually rising, hence employers shifting or dropping coverage and young people opting out altogether) and are fairly healthy to begin with.

For insurance companies there is “incentive” to avoid covering chronic disease and pre-existing conditions, since the cost impact on the company’s profit margin is too great.

For doctors and hospitals there is "incentive" to indulge in expensive procedures and tests that aren't needed because they get more money for them and to protect themselves from being sued by unscrupulous patients and lawyers.

The fundamental question we have to ask ourselves is do we have a moral obligation to provide affordable and universal healthcare in this country. Without a national commitment to that the rest of the debate will continually be poisoned by polemics and demagoguery over issues that kill meaningful reform in its tracks.

If you subscribe to survival of the fittest, total market mechanisms, “I got mine and to hell with the rest of you” social mindset, then by all means keep the status quo. You accept that certain people with good insurance or a lot of money will get the finest healthcare in the best facilities with no waiting, and tens of millions of others will never get their foot in the door. That’s the system we have and continue to perpetuate. But sooner than later costs will reach levels that even those that think they'll never be thrown into the uninsured ranks of the unwashed masses will find its all a pitiful delusion.
 motownmaniax
Joined: 8/13/2006
Msg: 112
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/21/2010 11:43:59 PM
Guess the question's moot now. The last hurdle for national healthcare reform was passed last night with the House passage.
 CallmeKen
Joined: 9/4/2009
Msg: 113
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/22/2010 4:22:55 AM
Call it what it is - this is NOT national healthcare reform. This is national healthcare tax. Congress just passed another tax. Party.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 114
view profile
History
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/22/2010 7:03:02 AM

This is national healthcare tax.
Ya, but you won't be paying any health care tax ... eh?

It appears (20 minutes after writing the above post) you don't have a job and won't be paying that tax after all ... right? You just wrote the following in another thread ...
Financial plans don't mean jack when your boss lays you off and your wife leaves you and moves back in with her parents.


And FYI ... it is indeed health care reform when pre-existing conditions will not longer be allowed to keep people from health care benefits. I don't care if I have to pay a few dollars more, at least they can no longer keep me from getting health care.

That's the reform I have been looking for ... for years!!!!
 motownmaniax
Joined: 8/13/2006
Msg: 115
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/22/2010 9:37:19 AM
I get newsletters from both parties and it's amazing to see the difference in attitude after the passage.

Dems


For the first time in our nation's history, Congress has passed comprehensive health care reform. America waited a hundred years and fought for decades to reach this moment. Tonight, thanks to you, we are finally here.

Consider the staggering scope of what you have just accomplished:

Because of you, every American will finally be guaranteed high quality, affordable health care coverage.

Every American will be covered under the toughest patient protections in history. Arbitrary premium hikes, insurance cancellations, and discrimination against pre-existing conditions will now be gone forever.

And we'll finally start reducing the cost of care -- creating millions of jobs, preventing families and businesses from plunging into bankruptcy, and removing over a trillion dollars of debt from the backs of our children.

But the victory that matters most tonight goes beyond the laws and far past the numbers.

It is the peace of mind enjoyed by every American, no longer one injury or illness away from catastrophe.

It is the workers and entrepreneurs who are now freed to pursue their slice of the American dream without fear of losing coverage or facing a crippling bill.

And it is the immeasurable joy of families in every part of this great nation, living happier, healthier lives together because they can finally receive the vital care they need.


State Republican Party (whose headline screamed "Betrayal", btw)


Dear friends,

We fought hard to make our voice heard on the Obama-Pelosi government takeover of healthcare. Unfortunately, the selfishness of the Democrats trumped the will of the people. The House may have voted, but this fight isn’t over. Please, click here now to make an urgent online donation to the Michigan Republican Party. Democrats like Mark Schauer, Gary Peters and Bart Stupak are out of touch with Michigan families. If they cannot listen to the people, they should not represent the people.

In order to kick them out of office, we need your help. Click here to make a donation to your Michigan Republican Party today. With your help, we’ll take this fight to the Democrats now and in November.

This vote was a slap in the face to American families who asked Congress not to pass this legislation. America cannot afford to keep the Democrats in control. We need your help today. Make your online donation to the Michigan Republican Party now and help us build the army we’ll need to defeat the Democrats in 32 weeks.


Do you see the difference? The Dems focused on the positive aspects of the bill, the Republicans just the need to destroy the Dems in the coming election. They look at it as political fodder and nothing more. Just another tired mantra of "government takeover", which it's nothing of the kind, without quantifying facts.

I bet all the Republicans that voted against the bill will be just like those that hated the stimulus, then shown doing photo-ops with stimulus checks in their districts. I wonder how long it'll be before they're seen smiling, standing with some leukemia victim, whose parents couldn't afford insurance before reform passed taking credit for a bill they wanted destroyed in the first place. If I were the Dems I'd hammer them at every opportunity.

Is it a perfect bill? No. None will ever be. You can be the hater and dig your heels in, stubbornly waiting until a bill satisfies "everyone" (which is ridiculous) and see our healthcare get even worse, or you can move forward. Can it be modified and changed later, of course. But the first step is to get something passed. We've waited 100+ years for national healthcare and now the wait is over. Amen.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 116
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/22/2010 3:02:32 PM


State Republican Party (whose headline screamed "Betrayal", btw)


Dear friends,

We fought hard to make our voice heard on the Obama-Pelosi government takeover of healthcare. Unfortunately, the selfishness of the Democrats trumped the will of the people. The House may have voted, but this fight isn’t over. Please, click here now to make an urgent online donation to the Michigan Republican Party. Democrats like Mark Schauer, Gary Peters and Bart Stupak are out of touch with Michigan families. If they cannot listen to the people, they should not represent the people.

In order to kick them out of office, we need your help. Click here to make a donation to your Michigan Republican Party today. With your help, we’ll take this fight to the Democrats now and in November.

This vote was a slap in the face to American families who asked Congress not to pass this legislation. America cannot afford to keep the Democrats in control. We need your help today. Make your online donation to the Michigan Republican Party now and help us build the army we’ll need to defeat the Democrats in 32 weeks.


Do you see the difference? The Dems focused on the positive aspects of the bill, the Republicans just the need to destroy the Dems in the coming election. They look at it as political fodder and nothing more. Just another tired mantra of "government takeover", which it's nothing of the kind, without quantifying facts.

It's a bit more than just destroying the Democrats... There is a clear message repeated throughout... "Give us your money so we can stop you from getting affordable healthcare"... and the truly sad thing about it is, a great many Americans actually believe that these people are protecting them...
 motownmaniax
Joined: 8/13/2006
Msg: 117
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/22/2010 3:21:23 PM
True, Joe.

If the Republicans were really serious about comprehensive healthcare reform they
would have acted on it when they had control of both the presidency and Congress for
six years under Bush. Oh wait, they did. They put a Band-Aid fix on Medicare that cost
almost $500 billion. Nice work. Republicans have NO moral authority to whine about
the present bill, that’s for sure.

As with the stimulus, the first Republican that does a self-aggrandizing photo-op with
someone who benefited from the bill (that not “one” of them voted for) should be
hammered by the Dems for all it’s worth.
 calisto04
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 118
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/22/2010 4:49:07 PM
I think when the people who have been supporting the Tea Baggers and the Republicans find out what they're going to get and what they have been missing out on, they will know who they are voting for in any upcoming election.

They will support the people who gave them affordable health care benefits.
 motownmaniax
Joined: 8/13/2006
Msg: 119
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/22/2010 5:04:28 PM
It’s amazing what’s considered unconstitutional "after" the fact.

If you’re in the military or a vet or a senior, you allow government “interference” with
your healthcare already—up to your eyeballs, in fact. Nowhere in the constitution
does it say we must provide healthcare to vets, active duty military, and seniors. We
do it because as a nation we feel it’s morally right to do it.

If you’re a critic about government “takeover” of healthcare, then any “government”
program assisting those groups should end tomorrow and they should be left to their
own devices. If they can’t find coverage or afford to pay for the coverage they do find,
tough luck.

You better then barricade your residence, stock up on food and water, and be ready
for a long siege, because they’ll be coming after you with pitchforks and scythes
wanting your skin. Try taking it away and see the firestorm that follows.

We’ll see how this plays out in the courts.
 calisto04
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 120
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/22/2010 5:17:00 PM
^^^So are you saying that technically, Republicans and Tea Baggers should not want to cash in on their Social Security benefits? Because it's a government assist program?
 cupani67
Joined: 12/29/2009
Msg: 121
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/23/2010 4:31:02 AM
I know I just can't wait for it all to kick in. I have a couple of grandchildren who will finally be able to have insurance.

I have friends who will finally be able to take their medication as the doctor prescribed. Also, they will no longer have to decide whether or not to buy medication or food.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 122
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/23/2010 9:04:40 PM

I know I just can't wait for it all to kick in. I have a couple of grandchildren who will finally be able to have insurance.

I have friends who will finally be able to take their medication as the doctor prescribed. Also, they will no longer have to decide whether or not to buy medication or food.


And THOSE are some of the reasons we needed this bill.
Complaining because Obama didn't wait five days to sign this bill is really petty.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 123
view profile
History
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/23/2010 11:13:26 PM

Ha...is that so? Then why is Obama having to go on yet another campaign tour to try and convince the American people that Obamacare is good for them? Maybe if he just explains it, yet again, we stupid Americans will finally realize that our government knows what's best for us, eh?


C'mon now, don't belittle our Community Organizer in Chief. He knows if he stays in Washington he will just have to hear about things he doesn't want to deal with, like unemployment and the debt he is expanding into new and alarming depths. Let the man campaign, it's clearly the one thing he's good at. He's been doing since he became a Senator and hasn't let up even after he became the President. Let him and his teleprompter run around the country on the taxpayers dime to pre-selected audiences who will cheer his every "um" and pretend that he is convincing those with "no common sense" that he knows it all. I mean, clearly a bill that he barely convinced his own party to vote yes on, and only after kickbacks and bribes and threats, has to be a good one, right? Maybe he can even convince himself.
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 124
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History
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/25/2010 8:22:43 AM

My American flag will be flown upside down until all of the communists are driven out of my White House. God Bless America.


If "commies" were in the white house you wouldn't be allowed to fly the flag anyway you like.
 CallmeKen
Joined: 9/4/2009
Msg: 125
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 3/25/2010 10:10:54 AM

We've waited 100+ years for national healthcare and now the wait is over. Amen.


Pass the potatoes, but keep waiting. This bill is NOT national healthcare, at least not as the Europeans or Canadians define it. This bill is a national health insurance mandate, tied to insurance regulation to make it palatable.


But the first step is to get something passed.


The Democrats could have passed most of this bill without controversy. IF the bill had just been about ending the pre-existing condition clause of health plans, it would have had overwhelming support (minus, perhaps, the insurance industry lobby). However, the clause about the forced purchase of health insurance is the sticking point.

It will be curious what products the insurance industry will come up with to satisfy the mandate, and at what costs. Will all ailments be covered by all policies? The bill forbids health insurance companies to set dollar limits on healthcare, so how will basic plans be differentiated from "cadillac" plans? Deductibles? If I buy a health plan with a $50,000 deductible because it's the only one I can afford, other than now paying money I don't have, how does my health coverage improve?
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