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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 501
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how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time? Page 21 of 54    (14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54)

What happened to the normal women? Those ones must all have gotten married off, and are perfectly happy because they actually have a clue.
. The same thing could be said about men, the one's that have a clue are all happily married.. Unfotunately many of them are here posing as single/divorced.. O_0
Of course I realize that that's not gender specific.. Hey, at least they're following MJ's advice and "keeping their marriage together."


. I dunno, maybe I'm just getting jaded at this point..
Oh well, at least your self-aware.. unlike some in this thread.


"Some 2.2 million women in the United States do not have primary custody of their children, according to Working Mother magazine and.an estimated 50 percent of fathers in custody battles get the children."

> Now, that's in custody "battles" I suppose the figure is higher if you take into consideration the court cases where there was no battle and the children were granted to the father without contestment.

You can read the rest of the article here if your so inclined: It speaks of why the instances of father getting custody is rising.

http://www.parentdish.com/2009/11/23/in-divorce-battles-dads-are-getting-custody/



 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 502
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how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 9:49:23 AM

You can read the rest of the article here if your so inclined: It speaks of why the instances of father getting custody is rising.
http://www.parentdish.com/2009/11/23/in-divorce-battles-dads-are-getting-custody/

Waits for the victim-minded men to rise up and declare why this doesn't count/matter/isn't enough/isn't true/still benefits women and penalizes men.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 503
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 10:09:13 AM

I am not blaming but from what I have seen with your posts, you just cannot seem to be able to see the issue from the other side of the table and going on and on and on, on tangents (the stats issue), that has absolutely no bearing on the original question at hand.

If it is the same way in your relashionships, I can sort of understand why it went south.

I am not blaming here... just observing...


Tangents.........Guess you missed the part where the women first went on the rant that there was no way the stats were that high?
As far as the effect of these tangents seems that others have found the connection some agree some disagree but there has been debate.

As far as your logic on me being what pushed her to cheat......while not perfect I am very open minded and will be the first to change my mind and opinion if someone brings facts that show where I am wrong. Also she told me since the split that I was the best man she has ever met and I did nothing to cause the failure of our marriage!!! Yet she left the "best man she has ever met"........For what?
I know some don't like the stats that are out there but that doesn't change them!!!

I would love to see the stats and studies that support the opinion of the other side.
Problem is even though I have asked the people supporting the other side of the debate to bring there FACTS to the thread not one has!!!
They interject opinion but have yet to bring the facts or studies that back their opinion!
The tangents as you call them that I have brought up have many experts and stats to support them.

In fairness I have looked for the facts they claim is there looking all over the net even went to many sites that are there just to help women get a divorce.
Go look the at them some are down right sicking telling women to use the visitation of the children as a weapon. Giving advise like run up the credit cards that are in his name.

There are far more women spewing hatred toward men here than men hating women.
Post after post of women are good men are evil.
attack after attack of the facts as each of their arguments fall to logic they just start from another angle.
So thanks for one more baseless opinion it is just what this thread needed.


who get the kids facts!!!


Number of single parents: Males: 2.04 million
Females: 9.68 million
Percentage of children under 18 years of age living with both parents (2002): 69%
Percentage of children under 18 years of age living with mother only (2002): 23%
Percentage of children under 18 years of age living with father only (2002): 5%
Percentage of children under 18 years of age living with neither parent (2002): 4%
Total single fathers maintaining their own household: 1.786 million
Total single fathers living in the home of a relative: 240,000
Total single fathers who are divorced: 913,000
Total single fathers never married: 693,000
Total single fathers raising one child: 1,300,000
Total single fathers raising four or more children: 55,000
Total single mothers maintaining their own household: 7.571 million
Total single mothers living in the home of a relative: 1.633 million
Total single mothers who are divorced: 3.392 million
Total single mothers never married: 4.181 million
Total single mothers raising one child: 5.239 million

 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 504
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 10:14:37 AM
To clear things up the first was Bi-polar we married after high school and she wouldn't hold a job. Thought it was her duty in life to eat and watch soap operas!!!


Who told you to marry her? Was the sex that good because why would a man keep a woman like that around? Is that really what it was?! The bi-polar is not my reason here - it's the other ones. I can't even stand having friends who are lazy like that.

If it was the sex, then you need to accept what happens when things go awry.

You clearly are still going after or attracting that type of woman because the first thing on your profile is about that - that screams red flag.

Also, you claim to be here for the forums, yet have long term on your profile.

Please! On with the stats! They are so

I don't disagree that many women divorce and get way too much, but if some man supposedly "hurt" your little princess, would you have a problem with her screwing him over in divorce court? See, you men assume your daughters are innocent, but they are not - they may end up being exactly the type of women you abhor.

I'm not a fan of chick flicks, but one of my favorites is Waiting to exhale. One of the characters gets cheated on. Now, there are a few moments of revenge she takes that are pure fun to watch (but it's only a movie), but the only part that does make me cringe? When she wins what she wants in divorce court and her and her friend squeal and jump with joy. Now. I don't deny her the things she wanted (they made that seem fair), but why would anyone act like that in public? Personally, I'd be sad even though "I won". We all know that the media do this all the time, but I know that many of you are influenced by the media. Myself, I have never had any conversations with my friends about "sticking it financially" to any man while in the midst of a breakup. Who the hell does?!


Go look the at them some are down right sicking telling women to use the visitation of the children as a weapon. Giving advise like run up the credit cards that are in his name.


Any friend with advice like that would never be my friend. Like I said, I don't hang out with women who talk like that. I find it childish.

I think many who feel like this, might see the "material things" as simply the only way to get revenge on a cheating partner? Have you ever thought that maybe for some of these women that they are unable to think of any other way to hurt their cheating partner than to get back at him financially? I know it's not the adult thing to do, but it's a perspective.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 505
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 11:28:33 AM
This thread provides some great learning material for people considering marriage or divorce. A co-worker of mine who says they have a very satisfying marriage of 7 years says........part of their success involves a scheduled meeting of 3 to 6 hours every six months with a checklist of things that have to be discussed:

-Finances/budgeting for new acquisitions.
-Each others contributions of money and time to ensure one is not being burdened more than the other.
-Emotional/Sexual needs being satisfied.
-Career moves, furthering education, career fulfillment and/or issues.
-Are the needs of children being met.......in this case one child.
-Vacation/family activity planning.

Anyway, they say the Checklist helps them ensure problems are discussed before they escalate. I'm sure the list is longer, and they add or delete things as needed. As the child gets older......I'm sure meetings to include giving the child a voice on it's issues will also be part of the plan.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 506
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how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 11:31:39 AM

Guess you missed the part where the women first went on the rant that there was no way the stats were that high?

I'll remind you that the first person to question the stats was a male who said this in post #4:
WOW. this contains more falsehoods, made up statistics and more mis-information than the Bush administration.
Nicely put I may add.


As far as the effect of these tangents seems that others have found the connection some agree some disagree but there has been debate.
If you call flaming folks to the point that all their bitter hatred and unstored baggage has been brought forward.. then yes, I suppose you could call it "debate."


I would love to see the stats and studies that support the opinion of the other side.
Support the "opinion" of the other side? Most of us realize that stats are compiled by people who want to prove that their "opinion" is correct. That, stats can indeed be compiled to correlate with anyone's opinion.. so, digging them up proves nothing and so, no one has bothered.


Problem is even though I have asked the people supporting the other side of the debate to bring there FACTS to the thread not one has!!!
See msg 788.. Although a side-bar argument to the original question.. It's still a stat that disproves that "women get custody waaaaaaay more than men in all jurisdictions and always. Period.

[quote[They interject opinion but have yet to bring the facts or studies that back their opinion!
The tangents as you call them that I have brought up have many experts and stats to support them. So? The stats still do not include REASONS for the divorce they only conclude the women file more. I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that women file more. I'll also remind you that because women file more.. It DOES NOT mean that she was 100% at fault for the marriage breakdown.


There are far more women spewing hatred toward men here than men hating women.
Post after post of women are good men are evil.
According to my opinion of the stats on what gender has shown more hatred to the other it's about at 50/50.. and, I don't believe it's actual hatred being spewed toward either gender..Just some folks venting about their own particular hellish demise of their own marriages and now marriage in general.


So thanks for one more baseless opinion it is just what this thread needed.
Opinions are just opinions. Opinions are neither right nor wrong.. they are just ideas about things that individuals either agree on or disagree on..


Number of single parents: Males: 2.04 million
Females: 9.68 million
Percentage of children under 18 years of age living with both parents (2002): blah, blah, blah
It's now 2010.. May I suggest you read the article I quoted to see why those numbers (stats) you provided are now no longer relevant.


Ciao..
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 507
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 12:10:33 PM

This thread provides some great learning material for people considering marriage or divorce. A co-worker of mine who says they have a very satisfying marriage of 7 years says........part of their success involves a scheduled meeting of 3 to 6 hours every six months with a checklist of things that have to be discussed:


Very good idea, but as I said before most people have this "romance" spontaneous crap in their head. Men are just as bad as women, as most I've met are unable to have a mature conversation about sex without getting excited.

It takes work to keep the romance going and most people just don't "get that". I've been dumped a few times because I wasn't romantic enough. Ok then.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 508
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 12:31:37 PM
To post #791

Who told you to marry her? Was the sex that good because why would a man keep a woman like that around? Is that really what it was?! The bi-polar is not my reason here - it's the other ones. I can't even stand having friends who are lazy like that.


No one told me to marry her.......and I was 18 at the time sex was something I was just surprised to be getting!!!!.....lol

Please go back and read how she was in high school.....She was active in clubs aggressive in getting good grades.......Most people would think a person like that would apply the same behavior in life.
Again my point was she displayed better traits when we were dating than when we married!!!
Why did I stay? Simple I practice what I preach. I was not going to just walk away from my commitment just because she had changed.
To be honest when I found out about her cheating I was happy. I finally had a reason that I felt was just to end the marriage she just beat me to the filing!!!!


You clearly are still going after or attracting that type of woman because the first thing on your profile is about that - that screams red flag.

Also, you claim to be here for the forums, yet have long term on your profile.

Please! On with the stats! They are so


Sorry but the sleeping smiley will not copy and paste. So to be plain you are saying the stats are boring.

Really I found them exciting and full of knowledge to glean!!!
As far as my profile I wrote that when I was still looking and might change my mind in the future so no reason in deleting what some ladies have called the best profile they ever read.
Yes I have the Bi-polar thing right up front as I will not do that again. Am I attracting them I would think that would be the same as saying I attract a lady with say lung cancer it is a disease so how do I attract a lady with a particular disease?


I don't disagree that many women divorce and get way too much, but if some man supposedly "hurt" your little princess, would you have a problem with her screwing him over in divorce court? See, you men assume your daughters are innocent, but they are not - they may end up being exactly the type of women you abhor.


Funny you should say that my daughter is getting a divorce now all I want for "her" to get is child support for their son. I have encouraged her to be fair about visitation.
So really all I want is to see my grandson taken care of.
They rented and was only together for a short time so there was no assets to divide.
As far as her being innocent she was pregnant by her boyfriend before she filed so no she was not anywhere near innocent.
I would never see them go hungry but when asked for money for bills I just tell her she should talk to her boyfriend. They are going to get married as soon as her divorce is final.
Before you ask yes I told her what she was doing was wrong and while I loved her I could not support what she was doing.


I know that many of you are influenced by the media. Myself, I have never had any conversations with my friends about "sticking it financially" to any man while in the midst of a breakup. Who the hell does?!

Actually I have heard and talked to a few women that plan to "stick it to their husband" I have even been asked for tips!?!?!?
So while you may have never seen it I have many times!!!


I think many who feel like this, might see the "material things" as simply the only way to get revenge on a cheating partner? Have you ever thought that maybe for some of these women that they are unable to think of any other way to hurt their cheating partner than to get back at him financially? I know it's not the adult thing to do, but it's a perspective.

I agree completely and will even say that most of the ones that are just unhappy see their husband as the source of their unhappiness and do the same.
This view is very refreshing to this post as you are almost the only woman that has admitted that a woman would do something like this. KUDOS to DAWN as well as she sees the splitting of assets as it should be not te way it is now.

Thanks for the debate your statements make points without the venom that has been so prevalent in the others.

Now to post #792


Ok, faire enough but did you have to add fuel to the fire by using the word rant? I believe that it reflects your opinion that what women had to say on here is to your eyes, conscious or not, irrelelvant..

Wow someone just accused me of being fair!!!!....I better be careful I might get the reputation of being reasonable!!!......lol (JK) Thank you actually!!!

To be fair when so many just started blasting the stats that take all of two minuets to find on the net I consider that a rant.


What I was trying to elude at is that when one of the spouses starts looking elsewhere while still married is to me a red flag. It also means to me that once one of the spouses start looking elsewhere, I can alsmost state with certainty that prior to the adultery there were most likely issues festuring for a long time in the marital relashionship to begin with.


This we can agree on 100%!
Did you read that she had 100,000.00 reasons to look elsewhere? That was purely a money thing!!!


I cannot begin to understand WHY either spouse would go elswhere if their relashionship was happy, fulfilled, complete in all layers it entails... It is just not logical.

That is all... I truly hope you can at least try to understand what I am trying to convey here.


I do understand and agree that it should be that way. Even when it is not perfect on all levels couples should work to get better and be willing to forgive when needed.
Thank you for a reasonable debate.

To post #794


I'll remind you that the first person to question the stats was a male who said this in post #4:
WOW. this contains more falsehoods, made up statistics and more mis-information than the Bush administration.
Nicely put I may add.


Really I have found those same stats on numerous websites. However I have yet to find the ones that back your point of view. Could you please post them so I can read them?


If you call flaming folks to the point that all their bitter hatred and unstored baggage has been brought forward.. then yes, I suppose you could call it "debate."

Debate can get heated and this one has, however it is also spreading knowledge and giving some a place to unpack that baggage you are talking about.
So that is a good thing!!!


Support the "opinion" of the other side? Most of us realize that stats are compiled by people who want to prove that their "opinion" is correct. That, stats can indeed be compiled to correlate with anyone's opinion.. so, digging them up proves nothing and so, no one has bothered.


Hummm the stats I have found have been compiled by many different sources and they are all within a couple of points of each other.
Remember one lady that happened to hold a doctorate degree was gong to write a book praising no fault however when she looked at the stats and info she wrote a book calling for its demise.
"No one bothered" or could it be they are just not there?


See msg 788.. Although a side-bar argument to the original question.. It's still a stat that disproves that "women get custody waaaaaaay more than men in all jurisdictions and always. Period.

I did and in post #790 I posted the true numbers on that in answer so please note that almost 2 million men got their kids but almost 8 million women did......I would say that women got them most of the times!!!!!


I'll also remind you that because women file more.. It DOES NOT mean that she was 100% at fault for the marriage breakdown.

I agree!!! I have never said that I said that with so many more women filing the chances are most of them would not be able to prove grounds that had to be proven before no fault.
So if you thought I was blaming women 100% of the time you are misinformed!!!


It's now 2010.. May I suggest you read the article I quoted to see why those numbers (stats) you provided are now no longer relevant.

Seeing as the stats come from the census done every ten years and it took two years to compile all the figures.
The 2010 stats will be ready in 2112 I will get back to you then!!!!!
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 509
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 1:06:55 PM
My world has ended cos all the angry men on here are disavowing marriage.

Never marry an angry man/woman.

Never marry an, "it's not me it's them" man/woman whose depth of introspection stops at gender via bias confirmation.

Never marry a man/woman who won't own their own mistakes.

Never marry a man/woman who doesn't know what a dialectic process is (important), as you will almost always reach a point where communication is impossible when they don't recognize what "irrational" is.

When you do find someone who is even keeled, self actualized, honest and reasonable, remember this: While it may be easier to fix blame, it's always better to fix problems instead.
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 510
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 1:10:41 PM

Sorry but the sleeping smiley will not copy and paste. So to be plain you are saying the stats are boring.
Really I found them exciting and full of knowledge to glean!!!


This may explain why it seems like you still don't get where some women are coming from. I feel you come across as lacking the emotional understanding of this thread. The stats were interesting the first 5 times you posted them - after that you were simply talking AT us. I found all the other things you wrote to be more interesting to provide insight into human nature than any stat ever could.


Before you ask yes I told her what she was doing was wrong and while I loved her I could not support what she was doing.


Haven't you ever questioned WHY she acted like this in the first place? I'm not trying to be mean or pick a fight, but seriously maybe here is a perfect example of how women, such as the ones you are talking about are created. If men really feel strongly about this - for fack's sake, start raising daughters the way you think they should be raised and how you would want them to act as adults. Once a child is an adult, it is way too late to teach them. And don't give me this bull about you don't support her - because when push comes to shove, a parent will be there for their child. I've known parents of murderers to be "there" for their children. It is hard for parents to deny children when they are in need, geez what parent would right.

And the rash of working women who felt that way gave $$ to their children because they felt guilty about the time they couldn't give.

I'm not faulting anyone for these things. Until you have been in someone shoes, you cannot judge these behaviours, merely try to understand and listen to them when things go wrong.

So seriously men there will be NO END to these types of women until things change radically. Rarely does anyone bring up "how we were raised" as answers to these mysteries and I think they weigh heavily into the discussion. But that's just me!

Have you suggested to your daughter that she go for marriage counselling since you know how difficult it is? Have you ever spoken to her about marriage in general and not sugar coated it? How about letting her read this thread (without the parts about her or her mom of course). I wonder what she would think.

I would invite my nieces and nephews to read what I wrote (17 and up) to see what they think. We have some pretty interesting conversations.


Actually I have heard and talked to a few women that plan to "stick it to their husband" I have even been asked for tips!?!?!?


Hmmm, what I have to wonder is how AND why you are even talking to these women? Are these the women who tell you your profile is the best? I certainly hope these are not the women you are talking about that you are keeping busy with because I find that a little distasteful.

If someone said that to me who was becoming a friend or was a friend? I'd tell them straight that I don't agree with them and my acquaintance with that person would probably dwindle.


Never marry a man/woman who doesn't know what a dialectic process is (important), as you will almost always reach a point where communication is impossible when they don't recognize what "irrational" is.


Are you volunteering to put together a "marriage manual"? LOL.
 luckyhot777s
Joined: 12/26/2008
Msg: 511
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 1:13:04 PM
I haven't read all of the responces, and am not siding with anyone...just a couple of points...

Either way, things are getting a bit too heated in here...so, I'm going to go out and have some fun.
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 512
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 1:14:45 PM

put together a "marriage manual"?

Nope, that would be foolish, ...that's up to the two people getting married.

But, the sad truth is, all it takes is one irrational spouse (though it is most often two), to create conflicts that have as their only resolution ...resentment.
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 513
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 1:21:35 PM
Alpha - my experience has been that women seem to be the irrational ones - so what do you suggest here? So far, the best solution I've seen is the "meetings" one.

I'm not afraid to admit that I find us women to be more irrational, more moody etc., than most men. There are a few prima donnas, but they are friends, not family in my life.

As I said in a previous post, the hormones that make women nuts when pregnant that men just let slide (because it's his seed blah blah blah) suddenly becomes unwelcome when no baby is inside her. I find that utterly interesting and laugh everytime a man just lets her fit go with no problem when she is pregnant, but will leave her if she does it when PMS'ing.
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 514
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 1:41:01 PM
my experience has been that women seem to be the irrational ones - so what do you suggest here?

My experience is that rational/irrational knows no gender, ...most PEOPLE I encounter haven't a firm grasp on reason. Critical thinking is a learned skill, not an innate ability.

As I said in a previous post, the hormones that make women nuts when pregnant that men just let slide (because it's his seed blah blah blah) suddenly becomes unwelcome when no baby is inside her.

That makes about as much sense as letting a man's testosterone fed rage, ...slide. Men and women are affected by hormones, the trick is to be self-accountable for any momentary lapse. It's when the lapses aren't momentary or when they are enabled, that you will see problems that lead to escalating resentment.

Hormones can be a valid excuse for a lapse in civility, not a reason for it, nor is it resolved if it's not addressed as being what it is. Just because a man or a woman has hormones coursing through them, does not mean that they shouldn't be accountable for their actions.

My S.O. is affected by PMS, ...sure, ...but our relationship isn't.

Like I said before, "While it may be easier to fix blame, it's always better to fix problems instead."
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 515
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 1:51:16 PM
First let me thank you for your level headed responses and questions this is how people can make progress!!!

Now on to the debate!!!....lol

This may explain why it seems like you still don't get where some women are coming from. I feel you come across as lacking the emotional understanding of this thread. The stats were interesting the first 5 times you posted them - after that you were simply talking AT us. I found all the other things you wrote to be more interesting to provide insight into human nature than any stat ever could.


Actually I do understand the major majority of women here have refuted the stats that I found,yet have not posted one that would come close to supporting their statements.

The thing that was eye opening to me was how close the stats were to my real life experiences. I am a very typical guy not rich not poor. Raised by parents that provided well and was there for me when I really needed them.
Though I know that everybody has different experiences the claims of a good many of the ladies that every divorce that they knew of was the fault of the man is just poppycock!!!

The thing is I never said that all the divorces that women filed for were there fault. Yet I have been accused of that by many.

What I did say and still do and have found many more experts that agree as well is women are much more likely to file just because they are unhappy.



Sorry but the sleeping smiley will not copy and paste. So to be plain you are saying the stats are boring.
Really I found them exciting and full of knowledge to glean!!!


This may explain why it seems like you still don't get where some women are coming from. I feel you come across as lacking the emotional understanding of this thread. The stats were interesting the first 5 times you posted them - after that you were simply talking AT us. I found all the other things you wrote to be more interesting to provide insight into human nature than any stat ever could.


Before you ask yes I told her what she was doing was wrong and while I loved her I could not support what she was doing.


Haven't you ever questioned WHY she acted like this in the first place? I'm not trying to be mean or pick a fight, but seriously maybe here is a perfect example of how women, such as the ones you are talking about are created. If men really feel strongly about this - for fack's sake, start raising daughters the way you think they should be raised and how you would want them to act as adults. Once a child is an adult, it is way too late to teach them. And don't give me this bull about you don't support her - because when push comes to shove, a parent will be there for their child. I've known parents of murderers to be "there" for their children. It is hard for parents to deny children when they are in need, geez what parent would right.


I agree and did my best to do so I raised her in a Godly home and encouraged her to talk to us about anything she wanted to know about.
I am not one of these parents that tell their children not to do something just because I said so.
I tried to explain things I thought were important and she knew she could come to me about anything with out me nutting up over it.
Having said that on the weekends she visited her mother she was allowed to do anything she wanted and her mother even encouraged bad and dangerous behaviors.
Without saying what I restricted her mother to supervised visitation.
The damage was done and her teen years was tumultuous at best it has been since her marriage failed that she has started to change her behavior and going to night classes to better herself and her sons life.
I AM SO PROUD OF HER!!!


Have you suggested to your daughter that she go for marriage counselling since you know how difficult it is? Have you ever spoken to her about marriage in general and not sugar coated it? How about letting her read this thread (without the parts about her or her mom of course). I wonder what she would think.

I just found out about her planning to remarry and yes They are going to take a six week course before they get do. It is two nights a week not going to solve all problems but it is much better than nothing.


Hmmm, what I have to wonder is how AND why you are even talking to these women? Are these the women who tell you your profile is the best? I certainly hope these are not the women you are talking about that you are keeping busy with because I find that a little distasteful.

If someone said that to me who was becoming a friend or was a friend? I'd tell them straight that I don't agree with them and my acquaintance with that person would probably dwindle.


No these are women I know from real life at least the ones that have asked advise anyway. They were friends before the split and I don't see a reason to stop being their friend just because I don't agree with what they are doing.
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 516
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 2:19:27 PM

a Godly home


That and a buck-fifty will get you a bag of chips.

Statistically, the more likely couples to stay married are atheists, ...probably to do with that critical thinking/reason thing.

"While it may be alarming to discover that born again Christians are more likely than others to experience a divorce, that pattern has been in place for quite some time. Even more disturbing, perhaps, is that when those individuals experience a divorce many of them feel their community of faith provides rejection rather than support and healing. But the research also raises questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families. The ultimate responsibility for a marriage belongs to the husband and wife, but the high incidence of divorce within the Christian community challenges the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriages."

Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience.

~ Barna Research Group 1999-DEC-21

Want to beat the stats? de-convert and marry an atheist.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 517
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 2:32:05 PM

That and a buck-fifty will get you a bag of chips.

Statistically, the more likely couples to stay married are atheists, ...probably to do with that critical thinking/reason thing.

"While it may be alarming to discover that born again Christians are more likely than others to experience a divorce, that pattern has been in place for quite some time. Even more disturbing, perhaps, is that when those individuals experience a divorce many of them feel their community of faith provides rejection rather than support and healing. But the research also raises questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families. The ultimate responsibility for a marriage belongs to the husband and wife, but the high incidence of divorce within the Christian community challenges the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriages."

Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience.

~ Barna Research Group 1999-DEC-21

Want to beat the stats? de-convert and marry an atheist.


The stats I agree with I have heard them and seen them before.
It is sad and I truly believe that Christians should do a better job. So even though I am part of that group I agree that there is a problem.
The core beliefs of Christianity should make it easier to stay together and if truly practiced it would.
So no excuses no trying to sugar coat it there is a problem and just like with any problem you have to be aware you have one before you can fix it.
Is Christianity the problem not likely it is most likely the people in it unwilling to do what they know to be right.

As far as your last statement I will pass I would rather be single and keep my relationship with God than be without God and married.
 GotAHubCapDiamondStarHalo
Joined: 10/25/2009
Msg: 518
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 2:45:12 PM

To clear things up the first was Bi-polar we married after high school and she wouldn't hold a job. Thought it was her duty in life to eat and watch soap operas!!!
OMG! So you respond by having kids? When will you accept your complicity?
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 519
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 2:57:39 PM

OMG! So you respond by having kids? When will you accept your complicity?


Well no WE were not planing on having them but seeing as SHE stopped taking the birth control that WE decided on together She got pregnant.

Now seeing as we both agreed that her taking the pill that she was already on and she decided to stop taking it without talking about it with me or even telling me she was stopping. How pray tell was I to know to use other protection?

Want to know the kicker she did it because SHE was unhappy and thought a child would help her be happy and bring us together!!!!!
Neither happened and the trust I lost in her just pushed us further apart.

Come on though I am sure you can twist this were it is the mans fault I have faith in you!!!

So let me have it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 GotAHubCapDiamondStarHalo
Joined: 10/25/2009
Msg: 520
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 3:18:00 PM
Pathetic.

You don't get it. It's not the MAN'S fault, it's YOUR fault. You are playing the victim card which I find repugnant whether you are male or female. This perspective has a way of tarnishing your opinions. If you knew she was bipolar, lazy and had no intention of working, you have to be kidding me to think I will buy into you relying on birth control. All birth control has a potential failure rate.

YOU willingly gave an irresponsible, bi-polar person control over the birth control and your financial and long term future. YOU have no one to blame but yourself for failing to get a vasectomy. They can fail too, but at least YOU are taking responsibilty for making sure a pregnancy does not occur. It's not about MEN, it's about Your personal failure to mitigate the circumstances about which you so vociferously complain. I have nothing against men. Victimhood disgusts me. Uggh!
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 521
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 3:38:19 PM

I agree and did my best to do so I raised her in a Godly home and encouraged her to talk to us about anything she wanted to know about.


You totally missed the point of my diatribe. It was not to get you to defend your position on your child. It was to get you thinking about these women that men claim are in it for nothing but money, are lazy and let men do all the work and then leave them.

Think about how parents raise their children and then think about how we are as adults. It explains a lot of the behaviour of many of us.

Very good points to ponder, Alpha on the hormone thing.


They were friends before the split and I don't see a reason to stop being their friend just because I don't agree with what they are doing.


I find it rather surprising that you would be friends with them when you seem so against it.


Though I know that everybody has different experiences the claims of a good many of the ladies that every divorce that they knew of was the fault of the man is just poppycock!!!


I really can't speak to that since I haven't lived their life and I don't live in the same areas as them. From my experience, it has been women who initiated it, but since I have not travelled extensively and experienced any other life than my own - who am I to say it is not different somewhere else?
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 522
view profile
History
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 3:45:44 PM

Actually I do understand the major majority of women here have refuted the stats that I found,yet have not posted one that would come close to supporting their statements.


I never refuted the stats...and I don't remember any woman who did...what I did refute was your assertion that this provided anything to do with motive for initiating...the stats just say more women FILE first...it doesn't say why they filed, or how many filed for what you call "valid reasons" ( and I still maintain you can't decide for other people what are "valid" reasons), or any reason at all...and your plain obtuseness ( is that word?..lol..if it isn't , it should be..lol) about insisting this overflow proves that women file for what you deem "frivolous " or "invalid" reasons...the stats only say one thing...more women file first...that's all they say,,,motive or reasoning is absent...your correlations are irrational..and this is coming from someone who sometimes fails on the rational thing when it comes to relationships....

What stats am I supposed to find that address motive or reason? There are no "stats"...stats are numbers..numbers don't address reasoning or emotion...the only "evidence" I have is what I know personally to be true in my case, and other women I know...


The thing is I never said that all the divorces that women filed for were there fault. Yet I have been accused of that by many.


You have implicitly implied on numerous occasions, and sometimes flat out said that the numbers were all womens fault...and, while literally..women are a cause of the numbers, because they created them...the reasons they were created are not representative by these numbers..only the FACT that they filed is represented...you have made huge leaps of logic and supposition based on what you THINK...not what the stats actually say... they only say....that women file more often..or at least, in the groups that were tabulated...


What I did say and still do and have found many more experts that agree as well is women are much more likely to file just because they are unhappy.


For the sake of argument...let's say this is true ( ad actually, if you read a lot of the responses by women...they will say they were unhappy..for whatever reason)..so what? Where does anyone have the right to dictate to other people whether they are allowed happiness or not...or how it's defined...why is anyone not allowed to get out of situation that is miserable and makes one unhappy?Are you saying...really, are you....that women should stay in unhappy marriages because it is inconvenient or undesirable by men? Did you grow up in the fifties? Women have choice now...they don't have to stay in situations where they are unhappy, abused, emotionally ignored...any reason...freedom is a wonderful thing...(which incidentally includes the freedom to be wrong or mistaken)...


Though I know that everybody has different experiences the claims of a good many of the ladies that every divorce that they knew of was the fault of the man is just poppycock!!!


Maybe this was said...I don't remember to be honest...but, I think there is a difference to "fault" and behavior someone can't tolerate..it isn't my exes "fault" that I wanted a divorce...but, his behavior contributed to my decision..and I think what has been said is that our own and many of the ones we know...the inability of the husband in those cases to listen, and take what we say/think/feel seriously was a huge factor...this thread alone shows many men still aren't willing to LISTEN to us...whether they agree or not...they can't just listen and consider our side...they have to assert or prove that we are wrong for feeling the way we do....the less conciliatory part of me is sometimes dying to say " who died and made you king"?...lol...You don't have to agree....but, the ability to listen with respect and maybe just admit we are different , not right or wrong...would be wonderful....It's maybe an extension of the male desire to fix what is wrong, instead of just being sympathetic to the feeling...Listening without judgment as to whether we are allowed to feel that way or not?

One difference between you and I MJ...I never at any time said I was perfect, or everything was my exes fault...and I obviously picked the wrong man for me...there's an error right there...and I now avoid men who are overly critical, controlling, or dismissive of my feelings...I learned....

You have not once said that you have any responsibility for your marriages failing...and , just for the sake of argument...let's say what you say is true..that all women are blaming all men for their divorces...since you obviously blame your exes, and consider that all women must be the same...are you not advocating behavior you yourself are incapable of? Pot and Kettle again,,,in my mind..

And I don't know if you were directing it at me or not...but, I have never been disrespectful , shrewish or spewing venom ( nice catch phrase some men use because they know it really annoys women to be compared to snakes ...) to anyone on here or in real life...

Some men on this thread have deliberately baited women..and if I remember correctly...no one got real upset till men threw the first volley....and then they are going to complain about the reactions they got? If men can be vitriolic, nasty and name calling...since men are always throwing the "equality" word around...they shouldn't be surprised when some women might respond in kind....
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 523
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 3:47:28 PM

Pathetic.

You don't get it. It's not the MAN'S fault, it's YOUR fault. You are playing the victim card which I find repugnant whether you are male or female. This perspective has a way of tarnishing your opinions.


Ok lets see if you can keep up.
She stopped taking birth control that we both agreed on (you know talked about the thing that sooooo many women on here have said we men should do!!!)
I had no idea I needed other protection so how could I be anything but a victim of her selfishness?


If you knew she was bipolar, lazy and had no intention of working, you have to be kidding me to think I will buy into you relying on birth control. All birth control has a potential failure rate.


She was not diagnosed Bi-polar until after we divorced she was Bi-polar but neither of us new it so again how is that my fault?
Yes all birth control has failure rates but millions of couples relies on just the pill all over the world. Remember the pill did fail SHE decide to go off the pill with out telling me!!!


YOU willingly gave an irresponsible, bi-polar person control over the birth control and your financial and long term future. YOU have no one to blame but yourself for failing to get a vasectomy. They can fail too, but at least YOU are taking responsibilty for making sure a pregnancy does not occur. It's not about MEN, it's about Your personal failure to mitigate the circumstances about which you so vociferously complain. I have nothing against men. Victimhood disgusts me. Uggh!


Seeing as neither of us new she was bi-polar my decision to marry her and trust her to be able to make good choices was based on how she was in high school go back and read my post about that.

BTW got a vasectomy in 04 anything else you think I need to do to be a "good" man?!?!?!?!?!?

You assumed facts that were not even discussed you want everything to be the mans fault or mine in this case. Sorry but sometimes the woman is culpable!!!!!
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 524
view profile
History
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 4:55:44 PM

Shockingly they back the things I have said, surely you can operate a Google search!!!


Quit the condescending tone... I have never talked down to you...
I could, just like you, find information on the net that backs up how I feel too...but, since I really don't care what experts opinions are about my personal beliefs or code of behavior, and I also think I'm reasonably intelligent enough to state my own opinions...why would I ?



The greater number of these type of filings are women!!!


Who says...in my firm...I see far more men wanting no faults then women..first, because it is way cheaper, second, because you have to both agree on the terms, and there is no trial where you can get blindsided by something you really don't want...and men only agree to any financial arrangement they are comfortable with, and don't have to let a judge make the decision...beyond their control...it's always costs them less in the end than it would otherwise, both in atty fees and what they provide for the ex financially...reasonable people go this route..non bitter or angry people...Remember it was my ex who suggested the no fault...


I never said that either but I did say the one breaking the contract should not be able to walk away with half!!!


Since in a no fault all parties agree, and often it isn't 50/50 by agreement ( mine wasn't)..unless it is terribly lopsided or one sided.,..judges approve these agreements...men are far likely to lose more in a traditional divorce...


Show me where I said I was perfect!!! Now you are just lying!!!


You never said " I am perfect"..you have, however, absolved yourself of any real culpability for the demise of your marriages..and not once have you sited any particular behavior of yours that your ex (es) may have not been happy with, or taken any responsibility for your choices...

Insults are bad form, and only people who can't respond intelligently to something use an emotional attack...and an opinion can't be a lie...it's just an opinion or interpretation of what is said...I'm not a liar...


I never did one thing to break my vows!!!


Well, yeah...neither did I...or most of the women who have posted here...so, what's your point?


I have posted stats on how the no fault has damaged this nation.


REPEAT: Almost unilaterally....men do better financially with no faults...you are promoting the wrong way if your concern is money...no faults may make it easier to divorce than used to be...but, thank God for that...because, if I would have had to stay in a miserable marriage because I couldn't prove he didn't " love.honor and cherish"...

If we want to cut down on divorce...practical things like: pre marriage counseling, instilling in our children the seriousness of marriage, not treating relationships like disposable commodities , or quitting the minute it gets hard..and maybe most importantly...classes or examples on good communication between genders would be far more helpful....you aren't going to stop some people from divorcing...nor are you going to be able to dictate to women any more what they are allowed to do , and what they aren't...

BTW, as an aside...I did a great deal of praying and soul searching before I asked for the divorce...and the message I kept getting was that it was best for both of us...turned out I was right that time....
 GotAHubCapDiamondStarHalo
Joined: 10/25/2009
Msg: 525
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 4/30/2010 5:19:16 PM

She was not diagnosed Bi-polar until after we divorced she was Bi-polar but neither of us new it so again how is that my fault?
Let's see ... She was a solid, superior student and overachieving young woman in high school, but for some reason, became a shiftless, mentally disturbed and manipulative foodaholic AFTER marriage to a certain someone? What on earth could have possibly happened? I think I'd snap, too!
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