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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?      Home login  
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 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 6
Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?Page 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
If you'd actually read the sentence - he was the first that hadn't served since Hoover or Coolidge (I think Hoover). And yes, or no depending - Reagan never served in the military. He was of age during WW1, but demonstrated instead.

And the incredibly offensive post above you is just unbelievably racist.
 davidsauvignon
Joined: 2/6/2008
Msg: 7
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 10/29/2009 9:11:10 PM

You can't expect Obama to stop it though - he takes flak if he doesn't wear a stupid pin for God's sakes

You're damn right he 'did'...same as not putting his hand over his heart during the National Anthem.

And now it's becoming clear, isn't it?





~ds~
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 8
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/2/2009 2:57:54 PM
There is no one higher in position in this country and he is the Commander and Chief,everyone in the military,of all branches, are his soldiers,heck ya,he can salute,what a dumb question.
 davidsauvignon
Joined: 2/6/2008
Msg: 9
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/2/2009 8:06:45 PM

There is no one higher in position in this country and he is the Commander and Chief,everyone in the military,of all branches, are his soldiers,heck ya,he can salute,what a dumb question.

So then, are you saying your democratic brethren are wrong to suggest that Ronald Reagan was wrong to return a salute?






~ds~
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 10
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/2/2009 8:37:47 PM
How did this become a question of political party,I don't see anything attached to my hip,the question was whether the Commander and chief can salute,and please take close note to the title Commander.Your trying to make this an issue of one party over another and that was not my point,lets not take anything away from the question.Is a President a Commander,YES,well that sounds like someone that can salute.Like I said,dumb question.The leader of our country being questioned as to if he can salute.If he was a Libertarian he still would have been a our Commander in charge of every soldier from our country.Top Dog,Hoorah !
 WesternWildRose
Joined: 9/15/2008
Msg: 11
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/2/2009 8:52:31 PM
Ya.. on that note.. you don't cutesy or bow to the Queen of England either!

you are not of the Commonwealth and therefore you don't bow to the English Monarch. Nor do you touch the Monarchy if you are a Commoner....lol I guess Mrs O didn't get that memo eh?

get your protocol straighten out and then practice it.
 davidsauvignon
Joined: 2/6/2008
Msg: 12
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/2/2009 9:15:55 PM

How did this become a question of political party

Ummmm, I’m guessing by the very first response given to the OP:

see what happens when you elect a Reagan ?

Rather than offer his/her own opinion, the first poster to the thread referenced a conservative President...and suggests, that if it is indeed a ‘problem’...then it’s the conservatives’ fault.


And then, there’s this very ‘political’ point which the OP stated in his opening statement:

The President may be the Commander in Chief, but he is firstly a civilian. The Constitution is specifically clear about the President being a civilian and not a member of the military. In the United States, civilians do not give military salutes to the military.


And then there’s this ignorant post:

Reagan was the first President who hadn't actually served (he was an anti-War demonstrator during WW1) since....I'm counting back, but I think either Hoover or Coolidge. So, partly out of ignorance, and partly to mask that, he started the practice.

Obviously ‘politicized’, or that poster would have googled and discovered that Reagan had, in fact, enlisted...the Army Air Corps...was what he had to ‘settle’ for due to his disability and the service’s physical requirements.

So you tell me, “when did this become political”. And by the way, I agree with you...the Commander in Chief would be a low life sumbytch if he didn’t return a salute to those he expects to protect him...and Michelle...and their daughters...oh yeah, and us.





~ds~
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 13
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/3/2009 3:01:37 AM
Military personnel give each other salutes as a formalized greeting. It signifies the honor and privilege of being in the military. When a civilian gives a military salute, they are assuming a membership and status which they have no right to. It's unseemly and actually quite rude.

When military personnel salute the president, they are saluting the office of Commander in Chief not the particular man himself. He can wave, shake hands, say " Thanks soldier ", or whatever else he wants. But, for the president to return salutes is a breech of protocol.

The president is a civilian and not a member of the military. If the president is going to be a part of the military, then he needs to be issued a uniform befitting his rank. Do we want the president to wear a uniform ? Like a third world dictator ?
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 14
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/3/2009 5:01:46 AM
Good to see Americans with their priorities in order.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 15
Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/3/2009 12:41:21 PM
Here is something I found at the Hauenstein Center site (snippets):

What is the protocol presidents should follow when they salute?
Since presidents are the commander in chief, they are at the top of the chain of command and therefore do not have to initiate a salute. They are only expected to return a salute initiated by someone down the chain of command.

You should salute the flag when it is 6 paces away and approaching, and hold the salute for 6 paces after it passes.
===============
This does NOT say that they CANNOT initiate a salute out of respect for their troops, if they so choose. Has nothing to do with being "commissioned" in the military. In fact, many men who are no longer commissioned--so are civilians--would be surprised to hear that some people out there think they shouldn't be "allowed" to salute.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 16
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/3/2009 6:23:32 PM
This is an excerpt from an article by Garry Wills, in the NY Times from 2007.


The glorification of the president as a war leader is registered in numerous and substantial executive aggrandizements; but it is symbolized in other ways that, while small in themselves, dispose the citizenry to accept those aggrandizements. We are reminded, for instance, of the expanded commander in chief status every time a modern president gets off the White House helicopter and returns the salute of marines.

That is an innovation that was begun by Ronald Reagan. Dwight Eisenhower, a real general, knew that the salute is for the uniform, and as president he was not wearing one. An exchange of salutes was out of order. (George Bush came as close as he could to wearing a uniform while president when he landed on the telegenic aircraft carrier in an Air Force flight jacket).

We used to take pride in civilian leadership of the military under the Constitution, a principle that George Washington embraced when he avoided military symbols at Mount Vernon. We are not led — or were not in the past — by caudillos.

Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s prescient last book, “Secrecy,” traced the ever-faster-growing secrecy of our government and said that it strikes at the very essence of democracy — accountability of representatives to the people. How can the people hold their representatives to account if they are denied knowledge of what they are doing? Wartime and war analogies are embraced because these justify the secrecy. The representative is accountable to citizens. Soldiers are accountable to their officer. The dynamics are different, and to blend them is to undermine the basic principles of our Constitution.


Garry Wills, a professor emeritus of history at Northwestern, is the author, most recently, of “What Paul Meant.”
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 17
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/3/2009 7:07:38 PM
Who is higher than a General.The President,he's the Commander,A uniform was never made for this title,there for he is in uniform,he has no standard issue.I completely disagree with your argument,you think he has to be in a military uniform or he is not leader of the free world.What branch of all the services should he represent,there probably lies the problem.Every person that brought up the uniform issue to Ceasar was fed to the lions.I'm sure he looked at them like "are you kidding me".

Me thinks you just don't like Obama,me thinks thats the root of this problem ! Just sayin !
 Fort Garry Dark
Joined: 11/25/2005
Msg: 18
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/3/2009 7:35:32 PM

At public events , the president should show respect like any other civilian by placing a hand over his heart.


Wow. You Americans sure like to have a lot of protocol for hand signals.

He's Commander in Chief and should salute whomever he wants to. Any old trooper would be worthy.

Stop the wars.
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 19
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 6:09:10 AM
People fly in here with unsubstantiated facts,here's Ronnies Military service

After completing fourteen home-study Army Extension Courses, Reagan enlisted in the Army Enlisted Reserve[26] on April 29, 1937, as a private assigned to Troop B, 322nd Cavalry at Des Moines, Iowa.[27] He was appointed Second Lieutenant in the Officers Reserve Corps of the Cavalry on May 25, 1937, and on June 18 was assigned to the 323rd Cavalry.[28] His service number was 0 357 403.

Reagan was ordered to active duty for the first time on April 18, 1942. Due to his nearsightedness, he was classified for limited service only, which excluded him from serving overseas.[29] His first assignment was at the San Francisco Port of Embarkation at Fort Mason, California, as a liaison officer of the Port and Transportation Office.[30] Upon the approval of the Army Air Force (AAF), he applied for a transfer from the Cavalry to the AAF on May 15, 1942, and was assigned to AAF Public Relations and subsequently to the 1st Motion Picture Unit (officially, the "18th AAF Base Unit") in Culver City, California.[30] On January 14, 1943 he was promoted to First Lieutenant and was sent to the Provisional Task Force Show Unit of This Is The Army at Burbank, California.[30] He returned to the 1st Motion Picture Unit after completing this duty and was promoted to Captain on July 22, 1943.[27]

In January 1944, Captain Reagan was ordered to temporary duty in New York City to participate in the opening of the sixth War Loan Drive. He was re-assigned to the 18th AAF Base Unit on November 14, 1944, where he remained until the end of World War II.[27] He was recommended for promotion to Major on February 2, 1945, but this recommendation was disapproved on July 17 of that year.[31] He returned to Fort MacArthur, California, where he was separated from active duty on December 9, 1945.[31] By the end of the war, his units had produced some 400 training films for the AAF.[27]
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 20
Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 8:07:11 AM
He is the President and like other President's before him ~ he takes liberties.

I don't think I'd characterize the different Presidents acting differently as "taking liberties", but rather as "being an individual unlike any other". The fact of the matter is, he is NOT Reagan, and he is NOT George Washington; and he is the President in THIS era, not those eras. To compare a modern man's actions and sense of propriety to someone's from a bygone era isn't fair, and not realistic.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 21
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:30:18 PM
I am a fan of Barack Obama. I support Obama and I voted for Obama. It's for these reasons I want him to stop the misguided habit of giving military salutes.

The United States was founded under civilian rule, not military rule.
Ultimately, civilians control the military, not the other way around.
Even state governors hold control over state military reserves and militias ( unless usurped by the President of the United States ). And, Governors are civilians, they are not military officers.

The Chinese used to think the same way until Tiananmen Square happened. Now, the Chinese know exactly where the power really is.

Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, and John Kennedy were all officers in the military in WWI and WWII , but once they took off the uniform they never returned military salutes as president.

The military salutes the civilian office, in that the civilian office is higher than any military rank. That's the way it is in this country.

When the president ( or another civilian office holder ) makes a military salute, he is blurring the lines between the civilian and the military. The president is a private civilian, a citizen , not a military officer. He has no business giving military salutes.
Doing it is only pandering, for political purposes.
I want him to stop it !
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 22
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:35:10 PM

I want him to stop it !
well that's your opinion and pretty much everyone else that came on here disagreed with you,I strongly disagree with your argument,your reasons,and I certainly do not see the commander and chief as a civilian.Dissect this if you wish,the vast majority here are not buying it !
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 23
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/8/2009 5:33:54 AM
We even get what other countries do in this debate on an American president saluting.Oh well,obviously someone has to be disgusted by him.Then it will just have to hurt you few,every time he salutes then.Is it OK he gets out the side of the car he currently gets out of,or should we be upset !
 earthlingsRevenge
Joined: 10/30/2009
Msg: 24
Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/8/2009 8:18:56 AM
Jesus...

you guys spent 3 pages for a 'salute'.

A president can kill more people with a 'signature' than with a 'salute'.


we sure have too much time on our hands.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 25
Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/8/2009 8:20:43 AM
What are you going to do if the president salutes the military?
Bring charges against him?

Grab hold of reality.

This is such a non-issue.
He salutes, he doesn't salute.
Either way, this particular president is going to catch hell from someone.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 26
Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/8/2009 10:19:38 AM

And, therein lies the problem with those who insist on name-calling, rather
than addressing what was posted.

What I said was, this is a non-issue. There is nothing anyone can do if the president
salutes or doesn't salute our military.
This really isn't a debatable topic--there is no outcome, either way.

Do I think he 'should' salute? Makes no difference to me, as long as he is respectful.
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 27
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/16/2009 3:22:22 PM
We all know I don't like Bush,Its probably not doctored,he might of been in a full salute when he felt his dog slip and he's catching it and losing the salute posture.Or maybe he is holding his hand as a shield and its not a salute because you also cannot see where exactly the soldiers hand is behind him.Hey maybe its exactly as we see it,huggin the dog and giving a half ass salute, a better late than never salute ! Bet all presidents have a moment during a salute or hand over heart where they wished they had not been photographed.
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 28
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/16/2009 5:09:58 PM
love that pick ,have seen it before but when you put Bushes pic on an expensive art program ,enlarge it ,you can see its an altered picture,bummers,wish it was real,but its not !
 davidsauvignon
Joined: 2/6/2008
Msg: 29
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/16/2009 9:23:00 PM

Do you think all presidents have had a moment during a kiss where they wish they had not been photographed?

Not a President, but a candidate while running for the Presidency: When Owlbore kissed Tipper...that made me throw up a little in my mouth...looked like the first time he had tried it since college. Ewwww Dad/Grampa, put your tongue back in your mouth. Ewwww Ma/Gramma, quit pretending you're enjoying it.


in better than forty years of following american politics this salute thing is hands down the dumbest single moment.

I'm with ya there, wudge...(shhhhhhhh)...well, next to bad Presidential kisses.






~ds~
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 30
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Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 2/24/2010 8:45:33 AM
damn and I thought these tea party/birthers/deathers well in a word these republicans had bi thced and cried enough that they dont support our president or country by all these outlandish claims that he's a muslim and can you get this beck and rush claims he dont like white people....mind you he's bi racial ....but to stumble onto this particular thread about some guy having an issue with President Obama returning the salute...again I must ask was he in here complaining when bush, bush1 or regain did it. I know he mentioned that reagan started it but do any of you guys remember the OP complaining about dumbya doing it or is this another case of the right cringing about the peoples choice for president...
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