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 toooldtoplay
Joined: 1/27/2013
Msg: 505
Love,Quality of life and who paysPage 22 of 23    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23)
It is disturbing but I don't blame women for getting what they can get. We have a government that taxes the hell out of people. We have many, most businesses want free labor, greedy till the end. There is a bad need for constructive unions, not destuctive ones like general motors. We really don't have a fair way of establishing who gets paid what which is exactly why I say pay everyone the same. That means that if someone in politics wants more, than I want more. It means if a doctor wants more, I want more. It means if an educator, college wants more in tuition, I want more. The whole idea of someone paying through the nose to get an education just so they can say they earned it establishes class warfare. They shoudn't have had to pay so much and we shouldn't value them more because they know more. Education should be totally free and if not it should be paid for like an apprentice program where these filthy rich companies have to not only pay people for working but pay for all of their school as well. We do a program that rewards kids with scholarships but they could easily be mostly kids whom have a lot of help to begin with. Even if they had no help, the fact that they can figure out things that other people can't doesn't mean other people are lazy. It all starts there and ends with many lives being passed by in poverty. Thank goodness for charity, without it we would all be dead at 30. It would be an angry world similiar to what we had in the old west.We offer school for military service. But in the end despite everything that has been established no one can get a grip on the crookedness at the top. The only solution that I know of is to have to hold elections yearly with no limitation on how long someone can be in office.
 flowersinthelake
Joined: 5/11/2018
Msg: 506
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Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 9/25/2018 5:04:00 AM

Who wants to be with someone who is lazy? Really...what's the problem?


Productivity doesn't necessarily guarantee fairness in relationships and it doesn't explain laziness neatly in its definition as you're trying to pass off.

Sure, he might work hard, but that doesn't mean he's saving on his home for that home you think you two are going to buy together, in the future. Maybe he's using you to become solvent so he can support somebody else he prefers? He could be all "fair and square" in financial matters and busts his ass at his job, but what you're for getting, is he really busting his ass for the relationship in which you think there is equal contribution, especially if his eyes are set on somebody else and is set to repeat the same mistakes? In this situation, all you are to him is a conduit to get from one preferred lady to the next, and he is using your productivity to get to the next pne of his financial disasters.

Additionally, some people can't work because of their psychiatric or physical disability, but their lack of productivity in the workforce doesn't mean they're laziness (and it doesn't meant they're relationship material, either, just like the working man). Maybe they're stable enough through system supports and good therapy and medication and can partake in a job. Do you equate these circumstances with laziness? No, it won't make him a better person if he isn't. but if it's stability you want, the person on this type of income tend to have stable housing and income if their needs are met through them -- hopefully.


Being a provider is a good thing. Women and men are both capeable of doing it. It's a good attribute for both genders to look for. Who wants to be with someone who is lazy? Really...what's the problem?


I provide for myself: my home, my groceries, my health care, my education, my hobbies, my shopping $$$, and my coffee. I'm not about to provide for any partner or make his life easier by using my resources to get to it. If he doesn't see me as relationship material for him, there is no reason to press my luck or convince him I'm worth it, when I already know I'm worth it and move on.
 bearcat44
Joined: 10/24/2014
Msg: 507
Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 10/19/2018 5:20:27 PM
Time to WAKE UP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVXdxaaRiAU&t=87s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pPGijYBaVE






Time to WAKE UP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVXdxaaRiAU&t=87s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pPGijYBaVE
 cw35
Joined: 4/8/2005
Msg: 508
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Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 10/24/2018 5:28:14 PM
Personally I want an adult relationship with an independent woman, not a woman who is basically like a child you have to take care of financially. Where's the sense in that at all? It would mean the person just loves your bank account. If you're that pathetic just get a prostitute.
 savona58
Joined: 9/23/2017
Msg: 509
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Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 10/28/2018 2:26:31 PM
This thread is from lonnnnnng ago, and one of the posters, who was a friend of Ming has passed away years ago. Kinda sad.

But as Irish said, people still arguing over who pays the coffee date! Lol those were good days of forums.
 cooldog65
Joined: 6/27/2011
Msg: 510
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Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2018 9:11:43 PM
^^^ Wondered what poster passed away? I have often wondered about those not deleted, but dormant profiles. Are they alive and have forgotten about their profile or have they passed away?
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 511
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Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/4/2018 11:01:40 AM

But as Irish said, people still arguing over who pays the coffee date! Lol those were good days of forums.

There would be little to no argument if it was about and only about buying someone a $2-3 coffee at a cafe on a mini-date. If it were Only about that, yeah, that'd be silly. But that's not at all what the "who pays" argument is about. It's when it can hit an average American Joe's budget -- and many gals out there taking the cultural "thing" for granted, with some making bad arguments on how it is objectively justified for all women on dates -- that an argument understandably comes about.

What I find intriguing about the "who pays" discussion is that brings out the "I say I'm cool with X", but once "X" happens IRL, it's hard to believe they'd all be so cool with it as they say. Happens with various topics, but "who pays" I believe really brings it out.

Examples:
- Gal says she's 100% fine with paying for roughly half the stuff after the 1st date, and says it has no effect on her date choices.
- IRL, as opposed to "on paper", it has a negative effect when a new guy opts to go in that direction, as opposed to her other dating choices who always step forward to pick up the tabs.

- Someone says it's the person who asks the other out, who pays.
- IRL, that don't really fly. Especially after a 1st date, there's no official asking to take the other one out much of the time. It's commonly brought up in the same manner a friend would to another -- from chatting. When a gal brings it up within convo ("Well, we should go to that new bar this weekend!") -- as opposed to the guy -- it in no way points to the gal paying for his sh!t. :) In actuality, for the gal, it's only if she Asks to Take Him Out, that she would be expected to pick up the tabs. Otherwise, the dude's expected to be paying for all her stuff, by default. :)
 flowersinthelake
Joined: 5/11/2018
Msg: 512
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Posted: 11/4/2018 12:24:30 PM
A coffee meet isn't a date, mini or otherwise. A date is an investment with time, not just money. The argument about that will never die so long as high-maintenance people demand low-maintenance relationships, because they're too cheap to relate to anybody.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 513
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Posted: 11/5/2018 4:16:53 AM
542
It's when it can hit an average American Joe's budget -- and many gals out there taking the cultural "thing" for granted,

So which culture is it? Chinese? Macedonian? Zulu? Sioux? Who started this cultural "thing" you are so expertly babbling about. Are you really that stupid you don't know that it is a societal "thing" that developed because of a male dominated world.

Once upon a time, long, long ago

Men worked,

Woman didn't.

Therefore

Men who worked had money,

Women who didn't work had no money.

As a result

Men paid.

This was the norm for thousands of years and still the way many people who grew up in the sixties still think. Your whining isn't going to change that.
 hemingway234
Joined: 6/6/2015
Msg: 514
Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/5/2018 10:01:34 AM

Once upon a time, long, long ago

Men worked,

Woman didn't.

Therefore

Men who worked had money,

Women who didn't work had no money.

As a result

Men paid.

This was the norm for thousands of years and still the way many people who grew up in the sixties still think. Your whining isn't going to change that.


- this is very true. However, it's still that way today.....men are expected to pay. Yet, men are not the primary breadwinners anymore - jobs/incomes are now split between the genders, so it's more difficult for men to afford to financially carry a woman.

So what's the answer? - there is no answer, it's a conundrum. Men who want a girlfriend or wife will just have to get good jobs/work harder. Too bad so sad! Such is the reality of life, which is competitive and unfair. You can whine about it or accept it. Those who accept it will fair much better.

Sorry, I can't wave my magic wand and make everything perfect.
 Noftheborder
Joined: 10/4/2018
Msg: 515
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Posted: 11/5/2018 10:51:15 AM

So what's the answer? - there is no answer,...

The answer is for fathers and mothers to teach their sons and daughters, starting at a young age, that just because you're female doesn't give you the right to take advantage of men, or for males to believe it makes you more masculine to allow yourself to used by a females who are totally capable of fairly contributing when it comes to "breadwinning". It's stereotyping from a time when they weren't even born that many cling to and then whine about it. Be the change.
 MeramecRiverRat
Joined: 10/12/2017
Msg: 516
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Posted: 11/5/2018 11:15:57 AM


But as Irish said, people still arguing over who pays the coffee date! Lol those were good days of forums.


Had an argument about "who pays for the coffee" yesterday. A kook from Bumble brought up the idea of meeting, yet she expected me to pay for both of us. Thankfully I was able to weed her out before leaving home.

She suggested Starbucks (yuck! yawn!) This is despite her claims to have been born in South America, home of real coffee, not the overpriced 1000+ calorie milkshakes they sell at $tarbuck$. Told her I don't drink coffee. She said the location didn't matter, that she would go wherever I said. Told her I would let her know when I thought of something better.

Before thinking of something better, I texted her that my method is for whoever gets there first to go ahead and buy their own drink, then the other person arrives, says hello for about a minute, then pays for their own drink.

Recently Starbucks made the news when a female Starbucks worker called 911 on two male customers who were waiting for a client and who hadn't ordered anything (the news tried to make it sound like the white employee (not disclosing she was female) called 911 on them because they were black, but in reality, men of all races aren't allowed to sit down at Starbucks unless they immediately order something. Now they've done a 180 and everyone including homeless people are allowed to loiter and use the bathroom at any franchise, staying as long as they want without buying anything. I imagine Starbucks as a modern Aqualung: "Sitting at a coffee table, snot running down his nose!"

In addition to not wanting to take up space at a business without buying anything, I was letting her know I wouldn't think she was rude for starting to drink something without me. In addition, if she had been thinking properly and being willing to pay for both of us because she's the one who asked, I was letting her know I was willing to pay my way. At the time, didn't know my text would reveal her as a gold digging drink whore, that she would interpret it as "I'm not paying your way".


I quickly thought of something better. She had an event at a park that afternoon, and because I know where the best fall color is in that park, I suggested we walk there to see the nice leaves if she felt comfortable there (one of her profile photos was at that park, and it's a well travelled public path in daylight, relatively safe).


Eventually she sent several rapid fire psycho messages, ranting about my method of meeting. She claimed everyone she ever met paid for everything. She also tried to change my behavior, telling me to pay for everything on future dates. She ignored my other suggestion, proof she was just looking to mooch free drinks, not actually trying to get to know someone. When she had said she'd go with alternatives, she was probably hoping for something more expensive such as a five course dinner.

I quickly unmatched her. Bumble is aptly named because so many women on there are bumbling idiots. At least I exposed her true nature without having to leave home. It would be hell to find out at the restaurant / bar.

Some dudes might be thinking, "You should have paid for her drink. $5 is a bargain to get laid".
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 517
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Posted: 11/5/2018 12:05:53 PM
I did the stay-at-home mom thing when I was on maternity 3 times for a year each and I can say that I would much rather be a stay-at-home mom than work outside the home fulltime at the same time as raising kids. Both being a stay-at-home mom and working outside the home are fulltime jobs but being a stay-at-home mom is much more preferable. Don't get me wrong, sometimes you really crave having an outside life and things get crazy being a stay-at-home mom but you get more down time, you get to see your kids more, you have more time to do the household chores and make good meals. Working outside the home, you still have to do the same amount of household chores. To me the perfect situation would be to only work half-time so I could keep up necessary employment skills and I could spend more time with my kids and have more time to manage the household stuff. I think the hours of my job make it really difficult sometimes because of the mix of evenings and days with a bunch of weekends. I have dreamt for years of having a job where I don't work weekends.

Regarding paying for dates, that issue is why I do not want to go on dates right now. I lack the money to spend on eating out and going to movies and stuff. And if a guy I date wants to go out to a bunch of different places that while not super pricey, are definitely above my budget, what then? Do I just think in my head that this guy is too expensive to date and try and find a cheapskate who only goes to places in my budget? So the money issue is the primary reason I am not looking for a relationship. But I wonder if my situation never changes and I spend the next 10 years pretty much broke, does that mean I should never date?
 Noftheborder
Joined: 10/4/2018
Msg: 518
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Posted: 11/5/2018 12:17:16 PM

Do I just think in my head that this guy is too expensive to date and try and find a cheapskate who only goes to places in my budget?

I find it odd that you would classify a guy who only goes to places within your budget as a cheapskate and yet it seems perfectly acceptable to you to be the cheapskate if he can afford to pay your way but likes to do what you can afford, as though he's obligated to pay for your more expensive tastes beyond what you can afford, simply because he has more disposable cash. The fact is, it's his cash, not yours.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 519
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Posted: 11/5/2018 12:41:25 PM

But I wonder if my situation never changes and I spend the next 10 years pretty much broke, does that mean I should never date?

It means you should really take a close look at your budget.
See if you can trim it (and you can).
See how expenses are changing and how/where you can re-allocate them. (i.e. the costs associated with pre-school children vs children who go to school).
If/when your money comes in from the situation with the ex - pay off debt then maintain your tight squeeze on the budge for at least a year.

However, I think you're deluding yourself when you say money is the primary reason you're not dating.
Try to delude us, if you choose, but never yourself.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 520
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Posted: 11/5/2018 12:59:20 PM

I find it odd that you would classify a guy who only goes to places within your budget as a cheapskate and yet it seems perfectly acceptable to you to be the cheapskate if he can afford to pay your way but likes to do what you can afford, as though he's obligated to pay for your more expensive tastes beyond what you can afford, simply because he has more disposable cash. The fact is, it's his cash, not yours.


I don't have expensive tastes though. That's the problem. I am happy to do cheaper things and I don't mind paying. But let's be honest, my budget is pretty tight. A guy would be bored not getting to go out and do stuff.

Money does keep me from dating. It's actually my primary reason for limiting myself to the idea of FWB. That's why on the other thread I was confused when people said FWB includes going out.

Money actually keeps me from friendships with women too. There's been a few ladies nights and such that would have been good opportunities to hang out with other women but I just couldn't ration the money. And I've also been invited to go along for things like concerts and such but money was again my reason for saying no. What I need is to find women I have common interests with that are broke too.
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 521
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Posted: 11/5/2018 4:24:46 PM

julystorm22
Money actually keeps me from friendships with women too. There's been a few ladies nights and such that would have been good opportunities to hang out with other women but I just couldn't ration the money. And I've also been invited to go along for things like concerts and such but money was again my reason for saying no. What I need is to find women I have common interests with that are broke too.


That sounds like college days. I have stated a number of times that college was one of the best parts of my life. I was dead broke for 4 straight years, but had more fun than at any time before or since. That works because you are surrounded by hundreds or thousands of people the same age in the same boat – dead broke and looking for a good time.

After you get out of school, you are not supposed to be dead broke, and if by some misfortune you are, it’s going to be much harder to find others in the same position.

Once again, I suspect that Meetup groups just might have what you seek.
 curvylady1965
Joined: 12/31/2017
Msg: 522
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Posted: 11/5/2018 5:55:10 PM
Finances are awkward for sure when it seems like you are the only one without deep pockets. I am surrounded by people who travel internationally at least twice a year; go to professional hockey games; concerts; dinners as a matter of course. Their conversations are around their renovations and new vehicles. They are coupled up. It is a different world. I went out last week to network. I had two beer and deep fried dill pickles (an appetizer). It was 38.00 before the tip. I went because I felt it was important to get my name out there more. But it isn't something I could pull off regularly. And dating is awkward financially as well. The last two men I dated made 180 and just over 200 respectively. I didn't feel comfortable in their circles. Both the women AND the men in those circles are extremely well maintained. In comparison, I cut my own hair. I just don't live in their world. If you figure it out how to make it work July, please be sure to let me know.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 523
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Posted: 11/5/2018 6:04:11 PM
My mom has experienced the same problems. Everyone in her social circles are coupled up so they have dual income households. The fact is, men in this area tend to have incomes twice that of women. So if you are married or commonlaw, you live a hell of a lot better. And my my mom has a rather good job making $34 per hour. Unfortunately, after taxes and living expenses there's very little for savings and home maintenance and things like vacations. She does save somewhat for retirement but he will have to wait till she hits 65 or older. Meanwhile most of her friends have retired earlier.
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 524
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Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/5/2018 8:15:10 PM
"She does save somewhat for retirement but he will have to wait till she hits 65 or older."

In Canada, you can start taking your CCP at 60 and still work. According to my accountant, you will receive the same amount monthly unless you live to be over 85.
 HUMHUMA
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 525
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Posted: 11/6/2018 3:11:22 AM
It's all a category thing....high maintenance.....regular relationship meaning at any cost between two.....it's like being in school day dreaming about a girl who won't ever look your way....this has transferred to the way people date today...." if I get a rich guy or get a rich woman".....true love is rare but still looms with some....Good topic and can be talked about many ways....lol
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 526
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Posted: 11/6/2018 7:06:15 AM

In Canada, you can start taking your CCP at 60 and still work. According to my accountant, you will receive the same amount monthly unless you live to be over 85.


Well, here's an excerpt from the government site:

"You can apply for and receive a full CPP retirement pension at age 65 or receive it as early as age 60 with a reduction, or as late as age 70 with an increase. If you continue to work while receiving your CPP retirement pension, and are under age 70, you can continue to participate in the CPP."

So it is a tradeoff. If you retire at 60 you get CPP at a reduced rate. CPP isn't enough to live on for most people unless they get a pension from their employer or if you sell your house and move into subsidized seniors housing. And to collect CPP you technically have to retire from your job as in your employer needs to provide proof that you retired. You can work after you retire and collect CPP but then you can't go back to your old position or job normally. My mom would get a pension from her employer but its not a super great pension, their union lost out in negotiations a couple years ago. If my mom had never gotten cancer 7 years ago, she would be in a much better position. Had she been married, her husband could have provided in that time, or if a husband got sick then so could she provide. It is something to think about. These days we think about relationships in terms of sex, romance and companionship. However there are some big economic ramifications as well for being single. Each partner acts as each other's safety net in case of sickness, job loss and retirement. Two incomes coming into a household is almost always better than one. I know some of the guys on here guffaw at "feminists" talking about the pay gap between men and women but it exists big time. Women tend to work in offices or in healthcare or in education or in the service industry while men tend to be in the trades, energy sector, mining, forestry or farming (in my neck of the woods) and there are huge income disparities. There's a reason a higher percentage of senior women live in poverty than senior men.
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 527
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Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/6/2018 9:53:54 AM
" However there are some big economic ramifications as well for being single. Each partner acts as each other's safety net in case of sickness, job loss and retirement. Two incomes coming into a household is almost always better than one"

What a sad way to think. Using others never works well, or gives people the self esteem they need to live happily with themselves.

How comfortable could a man or women be if they knew their partner wouldn't be with them if they felt they could afford not to be.

Humans scare me sometimes.

"CPP isn't enough to live on for most people"

It is calculated on how much the person has paid in. As I said you have to live more than the age of 85 before it starts to cost you.

"if you sell your house "

That is what the majority of people over the age of 65 do, whether they have to or not. As people age they don't want the daily maintenance necessary on a house. It only makes sense to sell and invest the money, and enjoy the year they have left.

IMO, seniors have earned the right to enjoy their retirement and not have to provide a place for their children to live. Adult children should not be burdening their parents financial or emotionally.
True adults do not look to others to support them, whether it be their parents or the spouse.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 528
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Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/6/2018 12:47:17 PM
I pay my mom rent and I buy a lot of groceries but I don't pay the amount of rent I would if I lived on my own. My mom also helps out alot with childcare. I understand why you think its wrong but I'm not sponging off of my mom. I really had no choice in the matter unless I was to quit my job and life on welfare which I've know other single mothers to do. Then I would qualify for subsidized housing at least. Right now, what makes my situation difficult is I am not receiving my Canada Child Benefits because its frozen due to my ex trying to claim it and all the paperwork evidence I had to submit is sitting on a desk somewhere at Revenue Canada. Basically those benefits are a third of my income and I haven't received them since February. No way in hell I could afford to live on my own without those benefits. I went to a financial counsellor at the social services building to see how to figure out my finances and the counsellor pretty much agreed with my calculations. To afford a place to rent non-subsidized, I would need to quit paying off debts and in effect default on my loans. I asked if I worked less if I could get into subsidized housing and she said that I would need to provide a letter from my employer saying their was a shortage of work. So I can't win.

Here's a scary fact. The amount of adult children age 20-34 living with their parents has steadily increased 20.3% since 2001. This a Canadian stat but the article I link to below does say its a trend in the U.S. and Australia and is a much bigger problem in Europe. One of the biggest reasons for this is lack of affordable housing, the rise in the cost of living and increasing difficulty with finding fulltime permanant employment.

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/98-200-x/2016008/98-200-x2016008-eng.cfm
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 529
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Posted: 11/6/2018 1:18:43 PM
IMO, people thinking they can have more children than they can afford, then expecting their senior parents, and taxpayers to raise and support their children are babies having babies.


"One of the biggest reasons for this is lack of affordable housing, the rise in the cost of living and increasing difficulty with finding fulltime permanant employment."

No, it is people expecting other people to be responsible for our bad decisions.

Make all the excuse you want. It doesn't change the fact that you created children, created debts, created half of the bad relationship with the children father.

"So I can't win."

Yes, you can.
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