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 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 258
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Condoning Atheism.Page 16 of 25    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25)
Sometimes, pixie, it is merely out of frustration, frustration at the hard headedness of some who claim to have intelligence, yet can't see beyond their own agendas. There most certainly is a difference between a belief in God & blind adherence to a religious organization.

That having been said, I do agree with much of what you contend, but I am human, and when someone irks me, I sometimes react. I admit I rather enjoy calling them out, and sometimes, I am hopeful that they will enable themselves to broaden their vision. My statement that I chose to ignore a specific poster really was no different than your statement of choice to disengage from a conversation you felt was getting defensive. Sometimes it is best to let sleeping dogs lie, agreed?
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 259
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 5/3/2010 9:12:51 PM
the Bible ( and the books of other major faiths) are viewed by atheists as just other mythologies.

As is often said about the difference between an atheist and a Christian, the *ONLY difference (in regards to belief) is that the atheist just believes in one less god than the Christian does.

*"atheist" means just one of the two belief (yay/nay) defaults in regards to the existence of god(s), nothing more ...nothing less.

Baal, Jesus, Zeus, Ra, Mithra, ...same thing, the only difference is in the specific petitio principii fallacy required for belief.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 260
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 5/4/2010 12:45:55 PM
Speaking of mythology, there are numerous websites available that show that the story of Jesus is simply a re-telling of the Egyptianmyth of Horus. Here are a couple examples.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread290806/pg1

http://www.bobkwebsite.com/egyptianmythvjesusmyth.html


The Egyptian Horus Myth Parallels to the Christian Jesus Myth 1. Horus was the son of Seb, an earthly father 1. Jesus was the son of Joseph, an earthly father
2. Horus stayed with his mother until the age of twelve 2. Jesus stayed with his mother until the age of twelve
3. Between the ages of twelve to thirty there is no record of the life of Horus 3. Between the ages of twelve to thirty there is no record of the life of Jesus in the Gospels (Matthew/Mark/Luke/John/Acts)
4. At age thirty, Horus was baptized by Anup 4. At age thirty, Jesus was baptized by John
5. By his baptism Horus was transformed into the beloved and only begotten Son of the Father, the Holy Spirit, represented by a bird 5. By his baptism Jesus was transformed into the beloved and only begotten Son of the Father, the Holy Spirit, represented by a dove/bird

From a stone tablet discovered in Nineveh, Assyria, and dated 700 B.C., now housed in The British Museum, and referred to by British Museum officials as the Marduk's Ordeal tablet



<div class="quote">The Egyptian Horus Myth Parallels to the Christian Jesus Myth The Egyptian Horus Myth The Jesus Myth
1. The Annunciation of the Birth of Horus 1. The Annunciation of the Birth of Jesus
2. The Immaculate Conception/Impregnation of a Virgin by God(s) 2. The Immaculate Conception/Impregnation of a Virgin by God
3. The Birth of Horus 3. The Birth of Jesus
4. The Adoration of Horus by Three Kings/Magi Bearing Gifts 4. The Adoration of Jesus by Three Kings/Magi Bearing Gifts
 NotElvisJunior
Joined: 6/8/2008
Msg: 261
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History
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 5/4/2010 12:57:16 PM
There was some sort of quote, can't remember who it was attributed to, but it went something to the effect of:


When you can tell me by what reasoning you discount all other gods as fictional, I can tell you why I discount yours.


I'm butchering the quote, but that was the gist. Anyone know the real quote and who it's from?
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 262
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 5/4/2010 1:10:46 PM
I believe you're talking about this quote:


"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

...Stephen F Roberts
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 263
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 5/4/2010 6:38:48 PM
Yeah, I always think of that one when a theist disses Zeus.
 NotElvisJunior
Joined: 6/8/2008
Msg: 264
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History
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 5/5/2010 3:45:07 PM
susan_cd wrote:

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

...Stephen F Roberts


Yes, that's the one - thanks!
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 265
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 5/5/2010 7:17:12 PM

don't believe in Greenland because I've never seen it. And if people disagree with me I beat them up and say how dare you disagree with me! I know everything! I will force everyone to nonbelieve by my sheer force!


ROFL...

Did you happen to read the Sept/Oct Issue of the Skepitcal Enquirer? It had an amusing article on a great term to use : logophobia.


Its Greek roots are obvious: logos means thought, particularly rational thought,
and phobos means fear of Logophobia is defined as "a skeptical doctrine about
rationality . .. [where] rationality cannot be an objective constraint on us butis just whatever we make it, and what we make it depends on what we value."

Moreover, the definition continues,"Opponents are held to disguise their self-interested construction of rationality behind a metaphysically inflated view of rationality in which Reason with a capital R is supposed to transcend the merely empirical selves of rational beings."
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 266
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 5/7/2010 1:15:20 PM
I'll stick with Larson's luposlipophobia as depicted in the Far Side cartoon.

"the fear of being chased by wolves while wearing woolen socks on a freshly waxed floor"
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 268
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 5/30/2010 10:56:04 AM

it still amazes me to see how worked up people get over these issues. Why does everyone seem to care so much about what other people believe?


Unfortunately many religious people feel that not only is what they believe the only proper way to behave, they also have a duty to convince others to believe as they believe.

So we end up with groups trying to bring religion into classrooms ( not just ANY religion, or all religions, just THEIR relgion, because they have the "right" one). They'll say they want religion taught in the classroom when ( generally) they mean they want Christianity taught in the classroom.

And we get people trying to have religion taught in science classes ( under a fancy name like Intelligent Design ), using the argument that the students should be exposed to other beliefs so they can make up their own minds... but they won't have science taught at Sunday school because that's church & science belongs in the school!!!
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 269
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 6/1/2010 9:25:08 PM

Atheism is kind of a religion, people stick by it very hard.


Well, no actually. A religion requires the belief in some sort of supernatural force, said belief coming from"faith" not proof ( evidence). Atheism is (according to the dictionary) :



1.Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2.The doctrine that there is no God or gods.


Those who have a religious belief require no evidence in the god ( or gods, or supernatural force), they just accept it on faith.

Atheists have no such belief in the god ( or gods, or supernatural force) BECAUSE there is no evidence.

If satisfactory evidence was provided, an atheist would concede they were mistaken & accept the existence of the god/gods/force. Those with a strong religious conviction generally won't renounce their faith even though there is no concrete evidence to support it.

As Archie Bunker said : It ain't supposed to make sense; it's faith. Faith is something that you believe that nobody in his right mind would believe.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 270
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 6/2/2010 8:49:39 PM

I will not participate in any athiest support goups or go to atheist gatherings and/or try to prove to the blindly faithful zealots out there that god does not exist.


I didn't know there were support groups & gatherings... I wouldn't go to them anyway ( unless they had someone I wanted to hear as a guest speaker, such as Richard Dawkins).

I have no interest in convincing anyone that god does not exist, they can believe whatever they like.... unless they learn I'm an atheist & start trying to "help me see the error of my ways" or try to bring religion from the home & church into the classroom; then I have a problem with them.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 271
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 7/11/2010 11:31:14 AM

For example, scientists often think that their path is superior to that of religionists, that only cold, hard facts are going to solve problems and help humanity. On the other hand, religionists sometimes think that the scientists are deluded, that only the study of religion will solve anything.


Well, if I'm suffering from acute appendicitis, some extreme injury, pneumonia ( etc, etc) I'll take a doctor or surgeon using medical science to help me rather than someone praying that I get better.

Science IS superior to studying & understanding the universe & it's contents, how it came into being and what will/may happen to it. It's basically a tool, and how that tool is used is dependent on the wielder; a scalpel can be used to cure or kill.

Comparing science to religion & trying to prove one is superior to the other is like trying to proove an apple is better than a fire extinguisher.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 272
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 7/13/2010 12:12:31 PM

It isn't "ok to believe what you believe"


Actually, it is OK.

But it isn't Ok to try to force your beliefs onto others ( into society's laws, the classroom, etc) or to expect society or individuals to change their lives to accomodate your beliefs.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 273
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 7/13/2010 12:18:38 PM

Why does it have to be a choice between science and religion?


It doesn't have tobe a choice, but I don't see scientists trying to force churches to give equal time to the theory of evoultion while various religious groups try to force the teaching of a god-created universe into science classrooms ( they may change the name to something fancy like "intelligent design" but it still uses a "creator" as the guiding force).

And these religious groups use arguments like wanting to be fair & present both sides to the students... but this "being fair & presenting both sides" is not to be extended into the church because the church is a house of faith/god!!!





Neither has ever proven the other wrong about God.


Well, it's impossible to prove the non-existence of something; the onus is on the side making the claim for something's existence to prove their claim.
 SpecificTruths
Joined: 9/19/2009
Msg: 274
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 7/15/2010 2:09:43 PM

Of course science and certain religions contradict each other, but science and the basics of Christianity do not.
What?
Science says a virgin birth is impossible. The whole basis of christianity is a virgin birth and ressurection from the dead. Both are definately contradictions to science. Whoa, ok, steppin back from this one, damn.
 SpecificTruths
Joined: 9/19/2009
Msg: 275
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 7/16/2010 6:40:47 AM
^^^ Delusional.
Ask an emergency room doctor if someone can be "resurrected" after being dead, buried in a tomb for three days, with serious wounds on both hands and both feet, as well as a severe stab wound to the abdomen. Those who "come back" from the dead have been flatlined for five minutes or so, no more. My brother is an emergency room nurse and sees it everyday. I promise you they haven't "resurrected" anyone who's been dead for three days. Nice try, but your answer is weak, at best.
And, what about a virgin giving birth? And don't give me the artificial insemination crap, because that technology was not in existence 2000 years ago. You not answering that and providing a weak answer to my resurrection question is typical of a christian. Just answer where you want to and ignore the rest, all the while praying for my sins. Pfft. Prayers are never answered, either, but that's a whole other can of worms.

Raise kids to be atheists, not delusional paranoid "believers" who waste their time in church participating in sacraments based on pagan ritual and cannibalism (communion).
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 276
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 7/16/2010 7:50:28 AM

susan sd .. when we understand the mind better we will be able to show precisely why humans are attracted to faith based beliefs.when we can quantify the effect we can compare like with like.


Perhaps we could show precisely why SOME humans are attracted, but not all humans are. It could be that those attracted are delusional, or have a mindset that easilu accepts things that can't be proven, if that belief gives them comfort. Believing something doesn't make it real though, no matter how many people believe it

Quantfiy what effect?

And belief in god can never be considered "like" when compared to science. Such a belief is an act of faith while science requires proof, tests, experiments etc. If there was proof of god's existence then faith wouldn't be needed.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 277
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 7/16/2010 7:55:13 AM

People have different beliefs largely because science cannot prove these things to be either true or untrue.


But science isn't making the claim for these things ( Jesus was the son of God, he died for us and he wanted us to live kind and charitable lives), Christians are. The burden of proof lies on the ones making a claim, it isn't up to others to prove the claims aren't true.
 sarniafairyboy
Joined: 6/19/2010
Msg: 278
"Condoning Atheism" ???
Posted: 7/19/2010 4:28:29 PM

And for many, maybe not you, but many others, it gives them some comfort to know that there is something better waiting for them after this existence. And you may be right, there may be nothing for us after death except to become worm food. I choose to believe otherwise. And there is no proof that I am right or wrong, or that you are right or wrong. In fact, there are a lot of people that have documented near death experiences that do talk about the light, or something to that affect. But the only way to prove that which idea is correct is to actually die, and I am not willing to do that to test my faith. Because that is exactly what it is, faith.


"there is something better waiting."

if you truly 'believe' this, why not off yourself now and go to this mythical 'better place' SOONER, rather than later?

ah, but you have the 'answer' for that covered off as well? "because 'god' doesn't want us to" , right?

where does the thread title 'condoning' atheism come from ? what is the 'alternative' to 'condoning' it? killing anyone who professes atheism, in the name of your 'loving god'?
 SpecificTruths
Joined: 9/19/2009
Msg: 279
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 7/22/2010 1:34:01 PM

I will stick to Little Red Riding Hood and Three Bears as educational books
Great post...
I like Curious George, myself.
 sarniafairyboy
Joined: 6/19/2010
Msg: 280
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 7/22/2010 2:40:52 PM
"god" was huge on killing, he killed every human being, living thing, animal, plants, insects, etc., etc. except for those on Noah's Ark

he was a KILLING MACHINE, man!

he did better than Hitler, Pol Pot or Stalin, at least on a percentage basis, close to 100% of the world's population at the time. basically 100% except for the 8 people taken on the Ark..

And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. Genesis 6:7

And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. Genesis 6:17

Every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth. Genesis 7:4

And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. Genesis 7:21-23

AND, God killed 100,000 Syrians for calling him a God of the hills

Don't call God a God of the hills. He really doesn't like it.

The Syrians called him that.

And the servants of the king of Syria said unto him, Their gods are gods of the hills; therefore they were stronger than we; but let us fight against them in the plain, and surely we shall be stronger than they. 1 Kings 20:23

Then an anonymous "man of God" told the king of Israel (Ahab) that God would slaughter the Syrians for calling him a hill god and, by so doing, show Ahab that he is the Lord.

And there came a man of God, and spake unto the king of Israel, and said, Thus saith the LORD, Because the Syrians have said, The LORD is God of the hills, but he is not God of the valleys, therefore will I deliver all this great multitude into thine hand, and ye shall know that I am the LORD. 1 Kings 20:28

So God delivered the Syrians into Ahab's hand and the Israelites killed 100,000 in one day.

And the children of Israel slew of the Syrians an hundred thousand footmen in one day. 1 Kings 20:29

http://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=4823
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 281
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 7/22/2010 4:03:10 PM

"god" was huge on killing, he killed every human being, living thing, animal, plants, insects, etc., etc. except for those on Noah's Ark

he was a KILLING MACHINE, man!


But you're overlooking a very important point; He did it because He LOVES us.

Oh yeah , and if we don't love Him back, He's gonna throw us into a lake of fire for all eternity.

Like the song says, "you always hurt the one you love"
 sarniafairyboy
Joined: 6/19/2010
Msg: 282
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 7/23/2010 1:19:07 PM
^^



he was a KILLING MACHINE, man!
But you're overlooking a very important point; He did it because He LOVES us.

Which, incidentally, is why the religious right fights so much for the parental "right" to use spanking and inflict pain to a child under the pretext that "we do it because we love them". Spare the rod, spoil the child? (the *rod* no less!) ...Tough love. Just like God. Yep.


true.. similar reasoning to that heard by men who physically abuse their wives (punch, hit, kick, slap, push, etc.)

"I'm just doing this because I love you.." ..
 SpecificTruths
Joined: 9/19/2009
Msg: 283
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 7/23/2010 2:19:22 PM
God is portrayed as nothing more than an angry, overly emotional, irrational teenager in the bible who kills those who don't love him back.
And people believe, with all their heart, that such a thing exists in this day and age.
Amazing.
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