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 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 138
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Condoning Atheism.Page 6 of 25    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25)
Just one note about what would be missed if there was no organized religion.

1. The Billions of dollars that churches use for good causes like feeding, clothing and housing the homeless.

2. Counselling by the good pastors out there (yes, most are great not the few creeps the news trots out for ratings) on drugs, alchohol and sooo many other problems people may have. They do it for the good of the people not just to make a buck and get you to come back as many counsellors do.

3. Giving people a sense of morality and community for those who cannot find it or were never taught by their parents.

I could go on and on.

I am not saying that you have to find religion to get this but some people do. It doesn't do any harm for most churches or temples.

The extreme religious zealots out there are idiots but that does not speak to the vast majority of religious people out there, no matter what religion that may be.
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 139
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Posted: 2/25/2010 7:37:34 AM
"What you say may be true, but it is more likely related to ignorance and/or lack of education than a belief on God." So the people that turned a blind eye to the years of rape of young boys with in the catholic church all must of been lacking in education also. I don't think so! The belief in a high power has been used by many over the ages to control others. There are ego-maniacs at the head of lots of churches that don't believe half the stuff they are saying, but the love being in the spot light and love the power their words have over others. Look at all the sex scandals church leaders have had. Control has been used and it is still happening today!

Have good things been done by churches and believers in the name of god also like the other poster pointed out? Sure, there have been good things done. There have also been good things done for and about the belief in Santa and like god these good things are done for something that is not real.

Atheist tend to be higher educated, commit less crime and all this is done without a belief in a god. So it is not religion that is required. I have not heard of atheist that do commit crimes doing it in the name of atheism. Atheism is not a moral code, but it clearly does not cause people to do bad things or stop them from doing good things.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 140
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 2/25/2010 9:12:14 AM
Let's take another look at who the bible says God is. He's a God who cares about human beings.


Except for when he's exterminating them.

Anyway, the bible only relates to those who worship the Judeo-Christian god. Non-athesists include Wiccans & Hindus to name just a couple.


All of his commandments are for the good of man.


Except that the first four commandments are about how to properly worship him.

Personally I think "help those that are less fortunate than you" or "feed those that are hungry" would be far more useful commandments than " 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.' " or "'You shall have no other gods before Me.' ".


He doesn't want people to murder, steal, lie, cheat on their partners, molest children, rape, hurt others.


Unless it's under his orders.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 141
Condoning Atheism
Posted: 2/25/2010 10:48:17 AM

Well.....not sure about the communism part because those people in power do NOT redistribute wealth, but rather absorb it all.


Yeah the Catholic church is having trouble keeping the Vatican repaired because they re-distribute so much of their wealth.

Guess they need all that money for their brainwashing program of convincing starving people in third world countries that using contraceptives & condoms is a sin.


I'll start with the Haitians--the Haitians who survived said god saved them.


And by extrapolation those that died because of the earthquake were killed by god.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 142
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 2/25/2010 10:50:51 AM

Since you've quoted George Carlin earlier, have you ever seen the stand up where he reduced the 10 commandments into only 2 commandments. It's very funny. Then he went on to add a third commandemnt: Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself


LOL yeah I'd forgotten that routine. Best bumpersticker I ever saw read

"Jesus protect me from Your followers"

I didn't have the guts toput it on my car tho, because I had no doubt some self-proclaimed "Christian" would key my car or toss a brick thru a window.

I did put a Darwin fish on it tho :D.
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 143
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Posted: 2/25/2010 11:30:15 AM
"Nowhere in this paragrah did you provide a solid argument that their faiths/beliefs caused them to die. " Yes I did, I can not help you if it went over your head, but other people got it.
"OFF TOPIC. I never mentioned anything about government and governments do NOT cause earthquakes when they interact with church leaders" On topic. The government there is a big reason for the poverty there and that as you stated "They live on less than 2 dollars/day, therefore, they're unable to construct better buildings" is one of the reason the buildings fell down in the first place. There is a clear tie in.
"DOUBLE STANDARD? OK, I'll explain why there is no double standard here."
I read you failed to explain it away. It is a double standad.
"TOTAL MOCKERY." It was not, it was the truth praying to god is pointless.
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 144
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Posted: 2/25/2010 12:03:37 PM
"3) The earthquake was of 7.0/+ magnitude and considered to be one of the strongest yet. Even better buildings would not withstand."

When a 6.9 (close to the same) magnitutude earthquake hit Kobe Japan just 5,400 people died. The city had a population of 1.5 mil. When the 7.0 hit Port-au-prince (population about 2.5 mil) well over 200,000 people died. After the deaths in Japan, there was outrage and building codes all over Japan changed. If a 7.0 were to hit Kobe today there would be far fewer deaths not the 5,400 they had years ago and far less then in Hati lol. Better buildings, yes they would and do make a difference.
"I'd like you to also talk about of the IMF and the World Bank impoverishing these countries, too. NOT just their governments."
The government there took the money from the IMF. Do you think Hati would have been better off if the IMF never lent money to 3rd world countries? The government leaders there did not.
" You're not here with an open mind" well I try, that is better then your doing.
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 145
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Posted: 2/25/2010 1:16:05 PM
"That does not answer how their faith caused them to die now, does it?" But it does show how wrong you were about buildings remember you posted "The earthquake was of 7.0/+ magnitude and considered to be one of the strongest yet. Even better buildings would not withstand." and because the poverty there is tied into their faith there is a clear link!

"So you still haven't answered how their faiths and beliefs caused them to die. You say a lot, but remain off subject."
I all ready told you I did. It might have gone over your head like I said before, but it is simple when people let their faith effect how the government controls them there is a clear tie in. Hello!!! Also when people let the "will of god" mind set exist in the first place they are much more likely to do dumb things. On subject one more time lol.
They did not let the "will of god" mind set thing happen in Japan. Lots of atheist there lol.
"Look around you. Do some research on the Federal Reserve Bank, and the IMF and you'll see. Poverty has INCREASED since the implementation of those banks."
http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTSITETOOLS/0,,contentMDK:20147466~menuPK:344189~pagePK:98400~piPK:98424~theSitePK:95474,00.html
Q: Does the world bank (IMF) Bank make a profit and, if so, what is done with it?
A: We often do have a surplus at the end of the fiscal year, which is earned from the interest rates charged on some loans and from fees charged for some of our services. Some of the surplus goes to IDA—the part of the bank that provides grants and interest free loans to the world's poorest countries. The rest of the surplus is either used for debt relief for heavily indebted poor countries, added to financial reserves, or helps us respond to unforeseen humanitarian crises.
May be you sould do a bit more research on this as well. Hati has had lots of loan forgivness and fees dropped also, because it is one of the poorest countries. They (the government there) is just useless, exect to line their own pockets. See above again for the tie in lol.


 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 146
Condoning Atheism
Posted: 2/25/2010 2:25:55 PM

I'm not going to explain why each and every statement that you make about the bible is untrue, although I could if I had the time.


I said : "the first four commandments are about how to properly worship him."

Here's the first 4 commandments:


1)You shall have no other gods before me.

2)You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

3)You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

4)Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.


Explain to me how my saying the first four commandments are about how to properly worship him is untrue.


PS. Yes, God sometimes did destroy murderers, child abusers and people that did such things in the old testament.


Are you suggesting that the old testament be ignored & Christians just follow what is taught & stated in the new testament? Besides God destroying people in the old testament he also instructed his followers to murder & take into slavery others.

Not to mention Lot ( who apparently was a good man, which is why him & his family are instructed to leave the city befor god's wrath destroys it) offering up his virgin daughters to be gang raped so the messengers from god won't be sullied. Great lessons the bible teaches.
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 147
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Posted: 2/25/2010 3:41:21 PM
You: "And YES, the government of those countries are to blame too."
Me: The people in power around the world also use religion to control the people and keep them down.
You: "Agreed. "
You: "The reason they are willing to live in unsafe buildings is not because they choose to. They live on less than 2 dollars/day, therefore, they're unable to construct better buildings. "

So even you see the tie in to faith and their belief in god now. You agreed religion is used to control the people and keep them down by the government. The government is to blame for the ecomonic problems there and that these same problems are the reason the people live in unsafe buildings. Think we can say point proven.
 samiam75
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 148
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 2/25/2010 6:02:49 PM
i have to say you worded it perfectly. beeing a single father of two and an ex that was once a jahova, and prodistan parents and chatholics on on side ...you can only give them the tools to chose what is right for them ....me myself , im an athiest, belive in none, not hell, or heaven but that was my choice.... i have the power to teach both my children about all religons, and let them choose for themselfs....if you seriously think about it what are all wars, culture difference, and society based on, if not religion... the igornet will be blind and the taught shall see what life has to give with out hate....
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 149
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 2/26/2010 10:09:52 AM

LOL, christians are nice people they wouldn't do that. I think they'd just spray-paint the part that says: "protect me from your followers"


Most are nice people, but I made a point of saying "self-proclaimed" Christian. Many of them are Christian in name only, not in deed & just pay Christianity lip service, figuring if they go to church Sunday that proves they're a good person.

Another cute bumpersticker I saw said

"Going into a church no more makes you a Christian than going into a garage makes you a car"


Now I'm gonna go buy some more Darwin fish
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 150
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Posted: 2/26/2010 10:57:24 AM
Check your numbers again:
Roman Catholic 80%, Protestant 16% (Baptist 10%, Pentecostal 4%, Adventist 1%, other 1%), none 1%, other 3%
note: roughly half of the population practices voodoo
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ha.html
Only 1% of Haiti claims no belief in a higher power. From the CIA factbook, the gold standerd. You have all ready posted you agree with the tie in, don't try to back out of it now, even putting up bad data will not help you lol. Haiti has one of the highest population of believers in the free world (other countries were they kill you for not believing are the only ones with higher number lol). People who know there is no god to help them tend to question athority more and do not have the "god think" I.E. god will take care of it for me, so they tend to take care of it for them selfs. Work the google on this and learn. Try harder then you did with the last set of numbers you put up please.
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 151
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Posted: 2/26/2010 11:52:44 AM
From wikipedia

The use of the Ichthys symbol by early Christians. Ichthys (?CH"THUS, Greek for fish) can be read as an acrostic, a word formed from the first letters of several words. It compiles to "Jesus Christ, God's son, savior," in ancient Greek "??s??? ???st??, Te?? ?????, S?t??", Iesous Christos, Theou Huios, Soter.

Iota (i) is the first letter of Iesous (??s???), Greek for "Jesus".
Chi (ch) is the first letter of Christos (???st??), Greek for "The anointed".
Theta (th) is the first letter of Theou (Te??), Greek for "God's", the genitive case of Teó?, Theos, Greek for "God".
Upsilon (y) is the first letter of yios (????), Greek for "Son".
Sigma (s) is the Gracie first letter of soter (S?t??), Greek for "Savior".
Historians say the twentieth century use of the ichthys motif is an adaptation based on an Early Christian symbol which included a small cross for the eye or the Greek letters "??T?S".
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 152
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Posted: 2/26/2010 11:57:50 AM
Q: So if an earthquake with the magnitude of 7.0 hits Denmark, does that mean that more people will die because they are more religious?
A: No, but as you have all ready conseded it did effect the people in Haiti.
You: "And YES, the government of those countries are to blame too."
Me: The people in power around the world also use religion to control the people and keep them down.
You: "Agreed. "
You: "The reason they are willing to live in unsafe buildings is not because they choose to. They live on less than 2 dollars/day, therefore, they're unable to construct better buildings. "
Remember!

The CIA factbook is the gold standard for country info, but it to is not perfect, but much better then wikipedia. Wikipedia gets bad dada often, how it is set up. The Danish National Church is just part of life in Denmark, they are born into it Infant baptism and they die with it Funerals, but not much in between. Not crazzy like in Haiti, so the numbers really only tell part of the story. They are primitive in Haita and the voodoo stuff is wide spread, they go to mass and do voodoo stuff both on the same day. It effect every part of there life every day there and is one of the reasons they have been left behind. Not so in Denmark.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 153
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 2/27/2010 11:20:16 AM
Not much faith in Jesus's protection then ;)


LOL... guess not ( comes from being an atheist). But then, the sticker said "protect me form Your followers", not "protect my car"

I'll go with the button I picked up in lieu of the bumpersticker "Faith in dynamite will move mountains"


Provide me a reliable source where 1 Haitian says: "I purposely chose this unsteady building to live in ONLY because I know God will save me if anything ever happens." I'll take anything to that extent. Just find me the source.


Didn't happen in Haiti but...


Evangelist drowns trying to walk on water
Pastor reportedly told congregation he could repeat miracle of Jesus
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

An evangelist who tried replicating Jesus' miracle of walking on water has reportedly drowned off the western coast of Africa.

Pastor Franck Kabele, 35, told his congregation he could repeat the biblical miracle, and he attempted it from a beach in Gabon's capital of Libreville.

"He told churchgoers he'd had a revelation that if he had enough faith, he could walk on water like Jesus," an eyewitness told the Glasgow Daily Record.

"He took his congregation to the beach saying he would walk across the Komo estuary, which takes 20 minutes by boat. He walked into the water, which soon passed over his head and he never came back."

The New Testament records the story of Jesus walking on the Sea of Galilee as he approached his disciples in a boat.

"And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea." (Matthew 14:25)



I wonder, was the problem that he didn't have enough faith, or was it just the filter on the gene pool was working?
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 154
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Posted: 2/28/2010 7:06:32 PM

I don't have that, but I have a friend from a culture in which it is practically unthinkable to leave a husband and it is because of religion. So she lives in utter misery and increasing financial problems, rather that being able to do what's best for her and her children.


Likely from a culture where ignorance is preferable, especially where women are concerned. Living in misery, due to a belief in God, is not the backbone of any religion I've ever heard of. Theism does not cause ignorance, nor sheer stupidity, as evidenced on a daily basis. Atheism doesn't cause these, either, but intolerance and judging others based on one small facet of their being is merely another virtue I do not wish to possess. People die because of their faith in one another as well, these people are zealots, not mere believers. Let's not fail to differentiate.
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 155
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Posted: 3/1/2010 6:43:16 AM
"Atheism doesn't cause these, either, but intolerance and judging others based on one small facet of their being is merely another virtue I do not wish to possess."
Your not implying that religion is merely a small factor are you? Many people list their faith or religion as the most important thing to them. For many it is listed higher then children as the thing they hold most important in their life. For those of us that do not believe there is a god seeing or knowing people that think an imaginary thing is more important then their own children is so not merely a small factor. Think lots of what we see every day around the world shows us that religion is not a small factor to many.

" Living in misery, due to a belief in God, is not the backbone of any religion I've ever heard of. "
You have not been to Afghanistan have you? Ask some women there what they think lol.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
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Posted: 3/1/2010 8:50:06 PM
I was not implying anything of the sort. I was merely pointing out that the belief or disbelief in God is not the only measure of one's motivations for their actions or lack of same. Blind adherence to any one thing, whether it be a book, person or being is likely indicative of ignorance. To assume that someone who is "religious" does or does not do certain things simply because of this religion only skims the surface of their particular issue. To ignore culture, lack of education or even lack of resources as contributing factors (particularly in the described instance to which I responded) may put one in the category of judgmental & ignorant in their own way. It is one thing to have an intelligent disagreement, it is quite another to use ONE fact about someone as the reason for every choice they make to make your own point.


" Living in misery, due to a belief in God, is not the backbone of any religion I've ever heard of.


I quite agree, and thank you for furthering my argument. A life of misery is not likely to be based on religion, and certainly not thesim, but rather ignorance, lack of resources & the ensuing oppression that result from these. The suffering of those who submit to such, while espousing religion as the reason, are likely lacking in education, and their suffering is due to cultural influence & governmental, sometimes even gender control, rather than a belief in God. In any case, theism does not = religion.
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 157
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Posted: 3/2/2010 5:21:44 AM
" To ignore culture, lack of education or even lack of resources as contributing factors (particularly in the described instance to which I responded) may put one in the category of judgmental & ignorant in their own way."

But there are many instances that do not have a lack of education or resources also. The blind eye to the rapes that went on with in some churches for one.

"I was merely pointing out that the belief or disbelief in God is not the only measure of one's motivations for their actions or lack of same."

It may not be the only measure, but for many it is the most important measure. You know there are parents that will kill a child in some places around the world for not following the rules of their god. Happened here in the USA too. This is not a small thing and knowing kids were/are being raped here in the USA by church leaders it can not be tied to things they are lacking, well other then a brain. Because it would seem they are lacking that lol.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 158
Condoning Atheism.
Posted: 3/2/2010 11:03:20 AM
Some food for thought:


Another child killed by religion
by Jerry Coyne


It’s chilling: this report in the January 20 New York Times details the death of an 11-year-old girl, Kara Neumann, who died from diabetes because her parents refused medical care, believing that prayer would heal her. They are going on trial next week.

But what is even more chilling are these two facts (verbatim from the article):

1. About 300 children have died in the United States in the last 25 years after medical care was withheld on religious grounds, said Rita Swan, executive director of Children’s Health Care Is a Legal Duty, a group based in Iowa that advocates punishment for parents who do not seek medical help when their children need it.

and

2. Criminal codes in 30 states, including Wisconsin, provide some form of protection for practitioners of faith healing in cases of child neglect and other matters, protection that Ms. Swan’s group opposes.


I’m not sure exactly what “forms of protection” are involved here, but any protection is too much. So it’s ok to kill your kid by withholding treatment, but not through more intentional abuse? One child dead is too many; three hundred is a national tragedy. (The Times describes several other horrifying cases.) This would not have happened in a secular society, for there would be no reason to withhold medical care.

As Steven Weinberg said in a quote I gave yesterday: “for good people to do evil — that takes religion.”

If you’d like to read more about this issue, The Times mentions this book by Shawn Peters: When Prayer Fails: Faith Healing, Children and the Law (Oxford, 2007).


I have no problem with an adult choosing to refuse medical treatment for themself because they feel it goes against their religion, but children aren't property. Parents should not have the power to withold medical treatment from a child on any grounds.

The child may say they don't want the treatment ( especially after being brainwashed by their parents & church leaders) but so what? A child isn't mature enough to make such a decision for themself; we don't allow children to vote in elections for the same reason.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 159
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Posted: 3/2/2010 8:12:32 PM

This is not a small thing and knowing kids were/are being raped here in the USA by church leaders it can not be tied to things they are lacking, well other then a brain. Because it would seem they are lacking that lol.


I am sorry, but how asinine! Kids are being raped by their little league coaches, by their
PARENTS, for Chrissake! Are you seriously intimating that it is their theism that is responsible for the behavior of the pedophiles who are affiliated with a church?! Ludicrous! You have lowered this argument to a level as low as any I've ever seen. Time to rethink your debate "skills".
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 160
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Posted: 3/3/2010 3:47:26 AM
"I am sorry, but how asinine! Kids are being raped by their little league coaches, by their PARENTS, for Chrissake! Are you seriously intimating that it is their theism that is responsible for the behavior of the pedophiles who are affiliated with a church?! Ludicrous! You have lowered this argument to a level as low as any I've ever seen. Time to rethink your debate "skills".


No by over looking the difference between how the blind eye was turned by so many parents to the rapes that happened with in the church, it is clearly different then what happens to most little league coaches or day care providers. Why? This is clear too, they don't want to cross the line with the church. This effect went much further then that also. Law enforcement was even effected. If these rapes had taken place any place other then in a powerful church the raids, computer and record being taken and arrests would have been so much different. If they had taken place by little league coaches or teams the parents and cops would have responded much sooner and in a bigger way. If you don't see this you are delusional. This also clearly showed it was not merely related to education or wealth as you tried to say. I don't think you need to rethink your debating skills, just except the fact that they suck.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
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Posted: 3/3/2010 8:03:26 PM

No by over looking the difference between how the blind eye was turned by so many parents to the rapes that happened with in the church, it is clearly different then what happens to most little league coaches or day care providers. Why? This is clear too, they don't want to cross the line with the church. This effect went much further then that also. Law enforcement was even effected. If these rapes had taken place any place other then in a powerful church the raids, computer and record being taken and arrests would have been so much different. If they had taken place by little league coaches or teams the parents and cops would have responded much sooner and in a bigger way. If you don't see this you are delusional. This also clearly showed it was not merely related to education or wealth as you tried to say. I don't think you need to rethink your debating skills, just except the fact that they suck.


There is no difference! The fact is that the majority are victimized by those trusted by the families involved, whether they be clergy, coach, or relative. The belief or lack of belief in a spiritual being has absolutely no correlation with pedophilia, and I find the suggestion of such sick.

The fact that many families were willing to take a "pay off" rather than face court appearances by minors shows nothing other than that this is a fact, and is often the case; think Michael Jackson (hardly clergy!). I have mentioned before that the organization, the business entity that it is a church, is apart from theism. I never mentioned wealth, either, and lack of education is rampant in those cultures who are taught to fear by their culture, and whose ignorance is preferable, as a means of control. There are many cultures who deny education to their citizens as a means of control. To make an argument in reference to the members of those cultures based solely on their belief in a God is disingenuous at best.

Debate skills are not measured by one's ability to go off on tangents that have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
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Posted: 3/4/2010 4:25:15 AM
"There is no difference! The fact is that the majority are victimized by those trusted by the families involved, whether they be clergy, coach, or relative. The belief or lack of belief in a spiritual being has absolutely no correlation with pedophilia, and I find the suggestion of such sick."

You are wrong, there is a difference:http://hnn.us/articles/1692.html
http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/boards/april1002/msg9.shtml
http://usccb.org/comm/rossetti.shtml
http://www.snapnetwork.org/legal_courts/stories/why_boston_report_wrong.htm
What is clear is the other posters here see the difference even if you don't. So I am not alone. The correlation is to the cover ups and the turning the blind eye and these are real and more predominant within the church, then other places.
Here are some other links for you on this also, but there are many many more. But you are a part of the catholic cult. You are infected. If there was a trial, your bias because of your misguided beliefs could be used to keep you off a jury. The sad thing is you might not even understand how deep your thought process has been compromised, but the rest of us can see it clearly. You believe in the supernatural and things that can not be proven and that infects the rest of your thought process also. Talk about sick. This is clearly on topic also, but nice try. Not!
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