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 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 17
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How Many Of You Are Doing This?Page 3 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
It's just a matter of degree. Read all you can, but take everything with a grain of salt. Each book writer is just like each forum poster: they write from their experience-informed prejudice, more than from a truly broad view. What works for one will destroy another.
Red flags, or anything like them are tools, and like all tools, you can use them to great success, or you can cut off your own leg.
Book writers are mostly out to get you excited enough to buy and read the book, so they can sell another one. I remember waaaaay back in the early 70's, there was a couple who wrote a book extolling the wonders of what they called "Open Marriage." They really just meant it was okay for both of them to screw around while still coming home most of the time. They went into great detail about how it all worked, how beneficial it was to their mental health, how much it brought them closer, yadda yadda. A few years later, ONE of the same authors brought out a book about how it destroyed their relationship and turned their lives to crap. This is an extreme case, but people who write books and are so excited that they've found THE INSIGHT which will make your love life blossom are fooling themselves just as much.
 colt8301
Joined: 10/25/2006
Msg: 18
How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/7/2009 4:21:10 PM
I didn't read the article but i read your post and it makes sense to a certain degree, especially what's a major flaw and what a minor flaw is, then again you have to understand what one person may see major another may see minor or vice versa and that little insuccinctness, may end up in disharmony.
I also agree with the focusing on the positive because focusing on the negative is noise, but if that negative is glaring and a "can't" miss, the harmony thing comes into play again.
Yes, i believe people should become more open, but at the same time people have their preferences and i believe people should stick by "their" preferences no matter what accepting all consequences.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 19
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How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/7/2009 4:32:42 PM
Focusing on the positive is fine, but many people focus on the positive and ignore negatives that really should be addressed. Look for the good but don't turn a blind eye to the bad and you're good.

I dated a guy that had numerous positives and in many ways exactly what I wanted, but the negatives were too big to overlook. He was jealous, not horribly but he needed way to much reassurance and I found myself editing everything I said because he was searching for hidden meaning.

Sorry, the perks weren't worth the fatigue that would have resulted from being responsible for another person's happiness.


Even the so called Relationship Experts (Therapists) gets divorced, and we may not even know what's really going on at home and they are giving advice when some of these so called "gurus or experts'" own personal love matters at home are a sham.

Knowing what to do and implementing it are two different things and you also cannot be married by yourself. If you made a poor choice, just because you know what a functional relationship is doesn't mean you can steer the partner toward it.

Self-help books provide a different lens for looking at things and people should take from different theories, etc. what works for them.
 tnt144
Joined: 10/22/2007
Msg: 20
How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/7/2009 7:09:00 PM
.
Even the so called Relationship Experts (Therapists) gets divorced, and we may not even know what's really going on at home and they are giving advice when some of these so called "gurus or experts'" own personal love matters at home are a sham..


.
Knowing what to do and implementing it are two different things and you also cannot be married by yourself. If you made a poor choice, just because you know what a functional relationship is doesn't mean you can steer the partner toward it.



- Exactly. It takes two to make it, one to break it. You cannot cary another person in a relationship; you can either be a partner or a counselor, but cannot play both roles at the same time, fully.

.
it could be said, that women, on average, are better at relationships. Yet, they are the ones who buy most of the relationship books! .



.
What I see is a correlation.....perhaps women are better at relationships because we work harder on ourselves and on the relationships.......


- I used to think that way, years ago... and you may be partially correct. If women have a better, shall we say, aptitude for understanding relationships... perhaps they find it easier... and therefore tend to naturally do more work for/toward relationships. I hope that makes sense.

.
Are women really better at relationships though? I'm not convinced. .


- Yes, they are. First of all, twice as many women file first for divorce than men. Secondly, the area of a woman's brain where red flags are deciphered, sometimes called intuition and gut feelings, is twice the size of a man's! And red flags are the most valuable tool we have in navigating relationships. Perhaps this is why it's normally referred to as "women's intuition". men have it, but because women typically do it much better, I suppose some believe it's a silly woman's thing... which it's not... I'm a man... and I'm here to tell you... intuition is so important, I've referred to it before as the secret to understanding women.

The problem is, like I said... it takes two to make it, but only one to break it... so, in reality, it only gives them an edge... but a noticeable, sizable edge. But again, this is only on average... there are women who stink at relationships, and there are some men that can hold their own with women as far as being able to pick and choose, avoid rejection, and find and keep happy partners.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 21
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How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:01:47 PM

Perhaps one needs to look at social evolution.....women were the primary caregivers of children since the dawn of time (likely).

Certainly back in the olden days when everyone breast fed their kids because that is what the girls are for, and the kids were pretty much strapped to mom for easy feedings and then, because they were likely gathering or farming rather than hunting, they stayed with the women while men were out hunting.

Even as society changed, the roles did not as for the intuition, I think that can be as much a deficit as an advantage because many women look for deeper meaning in things that are pretty straight forward or they think they know how their partner feels rather than asking him.
 DR_RUTHLESS
Joined: 11/2/2009
Msg: 22
How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:54:06 PM
overanalysis, either there is chemistry or there is not. Simple as that.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 23
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How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/7/2009 11:03:40 PM
How would one seek a one perfect match, you'd have to date many people, get to know them, and then figure out who matches the best to what works for you...the kicker being them feeling the same way about you....it's called DATING.

When you know there's nothing there to work with, you move on, others you might take more time getting to know, sometimes you mistake it for love and have to later move on. But you still have to date people no matter if you are seeking someone perfect or just seeking someone good enough. Why is this so hard to get? It's pretty simple.
 surely im shirley
Joined: 6/14/2008
Msg: 24
How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/8/2009 5:41:06 AM
'Red flags' are simply intuitive warnings and they should not be ignored.

I've been accused of seeking the negative but that is said by the person I'm being negative about. Duh.

If I like everything about a man, and can overlook his more endearing annoyances, then I am prepared to give that relationship a 100
% effort. My absolute criteria however is that he considers me a priority. eg. If I ask him to help me with the windshield wipers, not once but 3 times over a couple of months and he never does, then I don't feel that my safety is important to him. If things like this happen continuously, then I begin to question the sincerity of his 'love'. Those little things are red flags to me.
 tnt144
Joined: 10/22/2007
Msg: 25
How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/8/2009 9:14:34 AM

Perhaps one needs to look at social evolution.....women were the primary caregivers of children since the dawn of time (likely). When you are responsible to care for and nurture a little person who cannot tell you what they need, you need to be intuitive to read their body language and tones of cries. It makes sense that women would then be more intuitive than men...a necessary thing for a woman to have for the survival of the species.


- There are a lot of compelling arguments from evolutionary science that make sense... but they are just logical theories... hard to prove. Love and relationships deify logic in many key areas.



I do think men are more likely to remain in a failed/failing marriage because of the children and fear of losing financially........


- Sometimes, but that is not the main reason more women file first. When people leave a relationship, women tend to flake out more either very early in the dating process before they have fallen in love, or... after they have fallen in love, they tend to hang on to the bitter end more often than men; they wait until they build up so much resentment that they snap... then they can get nasty. Men, more often than women, sometimes disappear somewhere in the middle of things, at least a little more often than women do. Of course, both men and women leave at any stage and do the same things, I'm just saying that across the board, the different genders have their preferred methods.

I do believe that divorce laws are skewed and need to be changed. But more important than that, is that people need to be educated about love and relationships so that they can navigate their love lives successfully and avoid divorce before it happens. Knowledge is a huge power in this world. I have never heard of anyone who got married with the goal of getting divorced.




I've said it before in other threads using different words but I will say it again in this one......women's roles have evolved, so have the needs of women....men must evolve also and the ability to relate to each other will be rocky until we are once again in sync with each other......men need to become more intuitive and more understanding of the relationship dynamics and need to make an effort to understand their partner. Women do not "need" a husband the way they used to....but women still "need" men and men still need women. Women just need a different kind of man these days...we don't need the breadwinner, pants wearing kind of man of yesterday.....we need a true partner....



- I understand that women are more independent these days and that many earn their own paychecks... but just as a side note here, women need to stop writing it in their profiles... I understand that it can be a positive thing, it shows that they are responsible and it has value... however, it's tmi... in a profile, it's a little over-the-top and can be taken the wrong way, as aragance... it turns a lot of guys off. There is a space for "profession", that's enough. Besides, everyone needs other people... so, the statement is not really correct anyway, and I think people sense this.


I'm not sure the word "evolve" is correct... as far as love and relationships, while we may be more sophisticated in some areas, basic human behavior in this area has remained unchanged for thousands of years... and people are not going to evolve to any degree that we would notice anytime soon. Most of the advancements are based on material products, machines, inventions, roads, planes, trains, automobiles, computers, mass production, rockets, and shopping malls. Don't be fooled by all the window dressing; we are still just better looking, sounding, and smelling cavemen with a lot more tools and toys. LOL! Bill Clinton would be a good poster-child!


Yes, women's roles have changed.. at least a superficial one... now they have freedom and choice to work. However, the main underlying role of a woman, as it relates to men, has never changed. The main role of men and women in relationships has always been as a helpmate. Whether or not the woman works at home as a house wife or has a job outside the home makes little diffrence... in both cases, she is still contributing to the family. That's the bottom line.

Power. - Perhaps the biggest difference in relationships since the fifties is that, with women now working, men are no longer the primary breadwinner, and have lost that power over women, traditionally. Yes, unfortunately, they do not have as much value as they once enjoyed. However, other than a woman's self-preservation and her children, they still remain as the next-most valuable commodity in the world for women. The reason? - same power women have... love... women want to fall in love with a man. So, men who once were wanted for money and/or love are now wanted mostly for love... but the more money he has, the better. Beauty is one of the top powers also. What we end up with, mainly, is a lot of men chasing a smaller number of beautiful women, and because women know more about relationships, and fall in love slower, they pretend or operate as if they are more picky and have a longer grocery list and want more... here, we end up with a larger group of women chasing a smaller group of well-groomed and toned men with money, status, and good attitudes. But at the end of the day, most women will give less weight to their grocery list when they fall in love... many loose them real quick! Women have some big ideas, but all of us are full of hot air to some degree!

Men being the protector is a power men have less of now also... today, we have police.

But yes, the point is that men do not, across the board, have as much overall power and value as they did at one time.

But again, they still have the big one... love... women still fall madly everyday... and if the guy is a good guy and continues to do the right things in a relationship to keep her in a high state of love... especially if she loves him more... she will be his love slave... willingly!!! If the guy is good, women don't mind a bit... the benefits can outweigh the maintenance fees by a large margin. It's good work if you can get it!





Even as society changed, the roles did not as for the intuition, I think that can be as much a deficit as an advantage because many women look for deeper meaning in things that are pretty straight forward or they think they know how their partner feels rather than asking him


- Right, women love to rationalize just like men, and many do it too much and confuse and sidetrack themselves... but they need to learn/be educated to trust their gut more. Trust me... across the board, women have an easier time with relationships overall... but perhaps not much overall... perhaps just enough to be noticeable and add to the chaos.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 26
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How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/8/2009 9:46:57 AM

^You overlooked the red flags!

How dare you!

The "benefit of the doubt" died in 1984................you didn't know that?

I know you are primarily being flip but there is a distinction between choosing to give someone the benefit of the doubt which requires actually recognizing that X behavior is or could be a red flag, and those that don't see them at all or refuse to recognize them as significant character flaws. In Motown's example she readily admitted that they were red flags but wanted to see if the good stuff outweighed the bad. Same result but a distinction that seems important.

As far as the self help books, like anything else in life they are beneficial if used properly and proportionately. I think it is a shame that self-help has been ridiculed to the point that people of average or above intelligence are embarrassed to use them.

Someone who walks around quoting portions of a book verbatim like our red silk clad self-help addict did for soooo many months, duh, this is someone that doesn't see the book as adding to the store of knowledge and self-understanding but finds each book to become a bible or somehow a manual for life that will prevent one from making mis-steps.

I have self-help books that I have bought over the years either because I felt it might help with a problem, was knowledge that would be good to have even if I had not dealt with the issue addressed in the book, or because it seemed interesting and reading a book to me, is not that different from talking to another person. Obviously you can't pick an author's brain or participate in a conversation that is essentially one-sided, but what difference is the self-help book from mentioning a problem to a friend to see if your ideas/feelings are reasonable and/or seeking a way to deal with a situation or to for dating, approach it better the next time?

How many times do you read a thread and someone says something you have known for like a decade but they phrase it in such a way that it makes the concept easier to actually apply? This to me is the point of self-help books. My ex is bipolar, my kids are all teenagers, and they aren't doing as well as I or they would like in properly expressing or dealing with anger in particular but other emotions as well. My toolbox outside reiterating the same things, is now pretty much empty.

I am finally able to get them into counseling but in the interim have bought them some books that might help them in a way I have yet been unable to. So the answer for many is to get counseling or read books, both of which may be beneficial or a waste of time but I would rather have wasted my time than sit waiting for a lightning bolt of clarity.

I don't see any common sense in thinking that you know everything.
 boinkboinkboink
Joined: 3/20/2009
Msg: 27
How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/8/2009 10:20:31 AM
We attract what we are. If you regularly attract one with red flags, the real problem is actually with you. Stop looking for red flags; start dealing with your own issues.
 NappyKAT
Joined: 7/2/2008
Msg: 28
How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/8/2009 11:46:19 AM

Most people that say they won't "settle" and need the perfect mate not only seem to settle in the end, but usually end up with a complete train wreck of a person. I see it all the time. Funny how that works. Most people are too arrogant to see that anyone they date is also "settling" because they aren't so perfect either.


Shonuff

But people will never think that someone else settled for them. They always think 'well I have a few problems but other than that I'm a dam great catch. They should consider themselves lucky to have me.'

And - generally speaking, don't cann all self-help books! I've found Bell Hooks and Lisa Nichols as well as others very insightful. And there is a non-fction called 'That Mean 'Ol Yesterday' that isn't self-help but you can learn a lot from. They are not about 'common sense.' That isn't what it is about at all, but about helping you learn yourself and the ways to navigate through the tamultuous landscape that is life. About brightening your respective and opening your mind. Can't knock self-help for doing that. And I'm sure that is what this book strives to do - I'm just not interested in it. I'm not only turned off by the title (if that was it I'd still read it) but I am just not much interested in self-help books on dating... and by white people. Their form of self-help does not help nor interest me and I can't relate.

I hear 'A Child Called It' is pretty good tho. I have yet to check that out.
And '**stard Out of Carolina' was great.
They are not self-help but they served the same purpose as self help - to relate, to identify, and to open the mind.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 29
How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/9/2009 8:35:52 AM
"Wahh wahhwaahh....I can't find someone to be with because everybody is too picky."

If you are currently by yourself,single, solo, unattached,whatever, did you ever stop to think that maybe this is the Universe's way of giving you time to learn your own truths,to become a whole person in your own right?
When I hear someone lecturing, preaching,whining, whatever! about how people are "too picky", I hear a person in distress because they are by themselves and blaming it on the opposite gender being "too picky".
Let's face it...someone who is young, pretty or handsome, has a good education, good income,etc is going to have less problems with initially attracting interest. Prospective mates may tend to forgive more discovered flaws in such a person. That's just how it works and you can scream "UNFAIR!" until the Stanley Cup in played off in hell...it's not gonna change.
I wanna know how many average joes and janes are doing THIS...being with someone that they really don't feel that soul deep connection with...how many are sitting there doing a sales job on THEMSELVES, persuading themselves to accept a lukewarm or one sided involvement because "being alone" is some horrible social defect that must be remedied at all cost?

People who accuse everyone else of being "too picky" are putting up a billboard advertising their OWN insecurities.
Cindy O
 CheezyChick
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 30
How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/9/2009 8:49:38 AM

anything resembling a minor flaw as a so called "Red Flag."

I'm more interested in the "green flags"...
 Arabianangel
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 31
How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/10/2009 2:25:15 AM

If you are currently by yourself,single, solo, unattached,whatever, did you ever stop to think that maybe this is the Universe's way of giving you time to learn your own truths,to become a whole person in your own right?
When I hear someone lecturing, preaching,whining, whatever! about how people are "too picky", I hear a person in distress because they are by themselves and blaming it on the opposite gender being "too picky".
Let's face it...someone who is young, pretty or handsome, has a good education, good income,etc is going to have less problems with initially attracting interest. Prospective mates may tend to forgive more discovered flaws in such a person. That's just how it works and you can scream "UNFAIR!" until the Stanley Cup in played off in hell...it's not gonna change.
I wanna know how many average joes and janes are doing THIS...being with someone that they really don't feel that soul deep connection with...how many are sitting there doing a sales job on THEMSELVES, persuading themselves to accept a lukewarm or one sided involvement because "being alone" is some horrible social defect that must be remedied at all cost?


Worth repeating!

I believe what stresses people more is the constant pressure that being attached is normal and unattached is abnormal, therefore people fall for that and end up being with the wrong person for the sake of being in a relationship...

I would rather remain single all my life than to be with someone out of fear of loneliness.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 32
How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/10/2009 7:37:59 AM
I tend to agree with what the OP quoted from the article. However, I do not believe that the answer is the opposite, and that is to settle. Instead, I believe that we need to try to date more people. Yes. More people. Why? Because that gives you perspective of what is out there and what things you value the most. Take it for instance, when I began to date, at first I couldn't get anybody to go out with me. So I tried to learn some things and quick enough I began to go out with extremely hot women. I also began to discover their weaknesses, and things that I did not like about them. What that did to me was made me value a woman not only by her looks but made me work harder at understanding and appreciating a personality. Interestingly enough I see a lot of these super hot women still on dating sites and still not finding anyone. The things is that many of them have had it all, but unfortunately never all in one the same package, and since they still want it all, and will not go for less, they will always be alone.
So I don't believe that you should settle, but be realistic about the qualities that you have experience in real life and make your mental comparison and from there chose, but chose a real person, not an unreachable ideal that does not exist but the real person, flaws and everything.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 33
How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/10/2009 11:26:24 AM

if peoples selection process was worth a damn then they wouldent be on this site.

We are not a large group, but there ARE people whose apparently defective selection process caused them to choose partners who died untimely. Or those who were forced to end a relationship because life with their partner became untenable due to unforeseen mntal illness or addictions.

Anybody that wishes to is certainly free to date someone they dislike, based on that person being attracted to him or her, someone who happens to be handy in the neighborhood, beg friends and relatives to fix them up with 'somebody'...because if you are not constantlydating SOMEONE,regardless of true availability/suitability obviously you are doing something wrong. Who needs any spark or chemisty? Just MAKE yourself be with whatever turns up, because to be "not dating" proves that you are one f*cked up head case who has a dysfunctional selection process, and even being with someone who turns your stomach is better than THAT.
Cindy O
 christ on a crutch
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 34
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How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/10/2009 2:56:46 PM
the less knowledge and acceptance people have of their own flaws, the less they will have of someone else's.
 ichi-bon
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 35
How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/16/2009 11:00:26 AM

We are not a large group, but there ARE people whose apparently defective selection process caused them to choose partners who died untimely


True, and even though I may have initially joined the site out of curiosity, the feeling of the places to meet men at my age was severely limited, for interaction with others maybe in a like situation,etc.
I have found the reason I stay has Nothing to do with dating or wanting to find someone else.
I was not successful in my first attempt at trying a relationship.
Being soooooooooo naive at the time, I guess I had been so sheltered I didn't realize there could be so much " throw away society mentality" out there.
I enjoy the forums, enjoy the friends I have met, emailed, cried with, laughed with , etc........
The forums really are addictive,,,,,,,,but O.L.D. is a little too scary for me in light of the things I have seen and heard since I been here. It may change, but for now I am l loving the idea of finally learning to be content single or otherwise.
I had such a love affair with my late husband, I guess I foolishly thought that having that kind of experience would make it easier to find a person interested in not playing games, but truly searching for a life partner. Alas is not the case!
Many widows/widowers have become targets and cause for a challenge to others without the consideration of anyone's feelings but their own.
I never dreamed there would be such a stigma to having had a successful relationship.
 barbee1970
Joined: 12/29/2008
Msg: 36
How Many Of You Are Doing This?
Posted: 11/16/2009 11:17:58 AM
It seems to hold some truth to it. Some are picky, picky, picky.

The last guy didn't make it to first date. He rambled all about his great upbringing, how great he was, then said bad things about the mother of his child, short women(dwarfism), BBW women, black women. He kept repeating himself.

Then came the blow to me cause I apparently have a southern accent--"hillbilly" redneck" "I'm not attracted to you". Give me a break! He's ripping women for physical things they were born with! We can't help our size--mostly, skin color, accent.

Now I see his pic I see disgust. I am a great person. Physical attributes I can't change.
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