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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Greed... is good? I definitely think so.      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 196
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.Page 10 of 14    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14)

Corporate greed, greed on Wall Street, greedy speculators, etc etc. ... But this thread isn't about the financial crisis. It's about the bad rep greed has.

That's not about greed, though. Those news stories are about bad things people did because greed took them over, not because they merely had self-interests in mind.

Greed is a good thing when you define it as self-interest and looking out for yourself as #1.

"Greed" in the bad sense is -redefined- meaning that their self-interests made them do unfair/illegally damaging things to others! You can be greedy, but it does not require you to be illegal.

It's the same as the social religious/uptight folks saying sex is bad because those overwrought with crazy sex in their lives many times end up doing bad things. No, sex itself is not bad. Greed itself is not bad. Doing bad stuff is bad, which can be instigated by being overwrought with with certain emotions.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 197
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 11/27/2009 4:31:12 AM
Keep saying it your almost there
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 198
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 11/27/2009 3:27:31 PM
Hi Paul

Greed can be good
Greed can be bad
With those two facts in mind
To say greed is good is to blind oneself and possibly others to the fact that greed can be bad

Oh yeh if a sea sponge has any feelings I'm sure one of them would be honor
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 199
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 11/27/2009 8:58:31 PM
Greed is wanting, salivating, conspiring, panting, etc. to get more than you will ever need. By this definition and in light of how so many in the world live, we live in greedy times.A few years ago the Irish government defined a reasonable way of living as having new shoes on your feet when you need them and a roast in the oven on Sunday...or something to that effect. Greed did not create the Industrial revolution, (or any other revolution) wonder and inspiration had more to do with handling the raw materials. How friggen neat that the educational system taught so many to read, etc.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 200
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 11/27/2009 9:20:30 PM
People do love to play at semantics, don't they.
 BowdenK
Joined: 11/29/2009
Msg: 201
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 12/24/2009 11:15:17 AM
Response to OP:

I would approach the matter from a neutral perspective. My perspective is always toward "what best benefits society?" Unfortunately, we cannot see the future and will never know the unexpected effects of effort.

I disagree with you that everything is of a result of greed, but I agree that some positive effects have come where the original intent was in greed: Henry VIII's divorce and the chain of events that followed to Elizabethan society, Martin Luther's desire to have more than the church offered, etc.

Einstein's contributions were not of greed, nor were Aristotles (as far as can be observed). Nikola Tesla was more obsessed than he was greedy. The best examples are those who contributed to society but died before that contribution was realized enough to be reciprocated.

The philosophical perspective of Egocentrism is circular because it focuses on the inevitable exchange. Every thing that we do, as people, results in the reception of something. By this argument taking a crap can be considered egocentric, because we recieve relief. Every accumulation beyond daily bread and water can be viewed as an act of greed, but to do so is to limit the very complex nature of human behavior and negate other potential reasons. You didn't mention egocentrism, but it is frequently used in defense of greed and I just wanted to cover the base.

You define greed as
<div class="quote"> the desire to pursue one's self-interest . While every english dictionary definition that I can find is the desire to gain more than one's necessary portion, or to view it in "pursual" as the pursuit to accumulate beyond one's individual needs. An individuals needs can be measured against many idealistic world views and so it makes the argument difficult to resolve.

To end, I feel that greed is defined by intentially creating imbalance in society, and while some pursuits of greed may indirectly benefit society none are of the direct intention of such. As such, I feel that greed can never and will never directly benefit society and other means to similar ends are possible with the inclusion of social progresion/benefit.

edit - sorry if all these points have already been made. I am in a hurry, was interested in the thread, and felt it was a good argument to practice in.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 202
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 12/26/2009 7:30:22 PM
A want, a craving, a desire are the beginning of what can be the ending. When you want, when you crave, when you desire.... examine the bigger picture. Know that what you want, desire or crave are in the end is meaningless and secondary. The getting is never what you really needed. Never. Upon reflection, you are still empty. What really sustains you? You do not want to die being subject to your wants, desires and cravings. You do not.
 528lovefrequency
Joined: 5/22/2009
Msg: 203
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History
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 12/27/2009 5:34:53 PM
If greed is good, it is only because the motivation is what is driving that the person to yearn for their desires. So, greed can promote motivation and consistency.

If greed is bad, it is only because the person feels insecure or selfish about their prestige, power, or wealth they may lose. So, greed can promote selfishness and insecurity ultimately resulting to wickedness.

However, greed is in fact neutral. A lot of people demonizing greed because of old ancient writings (Torah, Haggadah, Qu'ran, New Testament, etc) and past tyrants (Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Rockefeller, Rothschild, etc). Most people have allowed greed to corrupt them but it is because of their own choice. Greed does not corrupt by default. Greed is what you intend to make it as. Greed works with your personality. It is quite possible to be greedy and at the same time be a nice loving person that wants to share their wealth. There are quite a few millionaires and billionaires that give millions of dollars to charity but they still maintain a strong desire to make more money. A strong desire evolves into an obsession and that obsession once obtained evolves into greed.

Greed is just a seed and it is up to a person of how they intend to proceed with it.

Kallen
nutritionist/master herbalist/philosopher
 Ubiquitous.
Joined: 11/7/2009
Msg: 204
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Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 12/27/2009 8:02:36 PM
Pretty freaking awesome that the moderators of this forum are deleting my posts despite the fact that I have been following all of the stated guidelines.

And yes, I have read them. Using the term "economic illiterate" is not flaming. Especially when it's true.

Pretty obvious whoever it is has an agenda if they claim those two words upset them.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 205
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 12/27/2009 9:08:53 PM

And yes, I have read them. Using the term "economic illiterate" is not flaming.


However, inviting people to disagree with you then calling them "dumbass" because they do is.

Insisting you're not acting the adolescent doesn't make it so.


Pretty obvious whoever it is has an agenda if they claim those two words upset them.


Ah yes, the insinuation that you're being censored because of an "agenda..." Ah, you'd make Anne Coulter, Bill O'Reilly and Tucker Carlson proud. Not hard to impress 'em though. Shiny objects serve equally well.
 Ubiquitous.
Joined: 11/7/2009
Msg: 206
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Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 12/28/2009 5:20:09 AM

However, inviting people to disagree with you then calling them "dumbass" because they do is.

First of all, that's not what I did. I called people, "dumb" when they made poor arguments. Anyone who made a decent case, even when they disagreed, was given proper respect. Look through the thread and you'll see this.

Secondly, those posts weren't deleted and I wasn't post banned for posting them.

And thirdly, that is not flaming. Not according to the rules stated in the Rules thread. The rules make it clear that flaming is when the poster makes no contribution to the thread.

My posts do. I fully admit my posts can be stinging.. but that's only because I'm up against the majority here, who are (legitimately) ignorant of basic economics. Wishywashy posts that don't call people out on their ignorance would be ignored when challenging such ingrained assumptions about minimum wages, self-interest, and "profits". They always are. That is why said false assumptions are so ingrained. No one challenges them.



None of my most stinging posts have been deleted and I wasn't banned for posting them. It's only when I really started putting forth a case against the minimum wage that I get deleted and banned. In the "thou shalt steal" thread, I made two posts simply stating a brief argument against minimum wage laws, and presented several resources. They couldn't have been more reserved. I simply laid out a case and added some references. And that was deleted. There were actually two of them.. and they both were slashed.

I can at least understand mods not liking how I say certain things.. even though I make sure to follow the posting guidelines. But it obvious that they care more about what I say - the points I make - rather than the tactics I use. And that is censorship.

Their forum.. their rules. But if mods are allowed to do this, then this place shouldn't claim to be a free exchange of ideas.
 Super_Eve
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 207
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 12/28/2009 6:25:04 AM

However, inviting people to disagree with you then calling them "dumbass" because they do is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, that's not what I did.


Yes, you did.


I called people, "dumb" when they made poor arguments.


You mean, when they disagreed with you.


Anyone who made a decent case, even when they disagreed, was given proper respect.


Subjective interpretation...who are you to dole out respect, as if it is an honour that you are bequeathing?



Secondly, those posts weren't deleted and I wasn't post banned for posting them.


Because we didn't report you. And you are abusing the privilege.


And thirdly, that is not flaming. Not according to the rules stated in the Rules thread. The rules make it clear that flaming is when the poster makes no contribution to the thread.


Read below...


Bashing, Insulting, Slamming other Posters

Report Posters who post Messages that insult, bash and slam other POF Members.
Same goes for Thread or Messages warning others of previous dates or meetings you have had in order to embarrass, slam or humiliate them.

You can slam & bash the Topic or Subject under Discussion all you like, but you cannot insult, bash and slam other Posters.


This is what you have done. You have called other posters idiots, and dumbasses.

Insults. It will be no longer tolerated.



None of my most stinging posts have been deleted and I wasn't banned for posting them.


Because you weren't reported. You were given a wide berth, and you abused it, and you are continuing to do so.


But it obvious that they care more about what I say - the points I make - rather than the tactics I use. And that is censorship.


It is not censorship, when you are infringing the on the rights of others. Insulting them is infringement...you are inhibiting the right for them to express themselves, through verbal abuse.



Their forum.. their rules. But if mods are allowed to do this, then this place shouldn't claim to be a free exchange of ideas.


It is a free exchange of ideas, within certain limits, which have nothing to do with your political or economic views. It has to do with this foreign concept, called "courtesy".
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 208
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 12/29/2009 7:33:31 PM
So, a fine rebuttal mwildflower. Are you hearing this young man? Greed still reeks of nothingness and nowhereness. Still.
 Ubiquitous.
Joined: 11/7/2009
Msg: 209
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History
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/5/2010 5:25:15 PM
I was hoping this thread could die off...
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 210
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/7/2010 12:22:59 PM
ALL things considered??? Are you serious?

Playing devil's advocate, I will mention how does pursuing one's own self-interest help others? By not allowing moneys to flow where it is intended to go, it will harm achieving that ultimate goal. Pursuing ONLY one's own self-interest is taking the stance of putting yourself ahead of everything else reasoning it and justifying it to yourself in whatever way you can. Is that RIGHT, who am I to answer that?

What I will say is that indeed greed has been reported for years and years and will surely keep on happening for years to come. I do think that indeed we need to look at what it is we all want to achieve in life and given what our social responsibilities are, i.e. paying the taxes we owe given ALL of our revenues, paying taxes and ALL of our purchases etc... by being a responsible asset to our society, we should all do our own help as is “just” given where we live.
 AtomicGogol
Joined: 4/4/2008
Msg: 211
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History
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/7/2010 1:50:13 PM
From a biological standpoint, greed is sometimes necessary and sometimes unnecessary. Elephants are a good example. A herd might eat an entire field of foliage, and then another herd is stuck looking elsewhere. Conversely, when a herd member dies, the other elephants will attempt to actually bury him and maintain a vigil for a while. This is obviously dangerous because that gives predators a chance to sneak up and attack them, but they do it anyway.
My opinion is that greed is necessary for the survival of the unit (herd/family/country) but selflessness is a sign of intelligence beyond simple animal instincts. If greed gets to the point where you might be, oh I don't know, embezzling $2.3 billion from investors, I'd say you're functionally impaired. That has no benefit whatsoever to the individual or unit.
 Ubiquitous.
Joined: 11/7/2009
Msg: 212
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History
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/7/2010 3:22:39 PM
Die! Die! Die! Die! Die!
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 213
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/7/2010 5:05:53 PM
Greed is eternal, so it must be good
Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!

Self never trumps community
Community never trumps the self
OH the conundrum !

How big and inclusive is your community?
How inclusive is your self?
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 214
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/8/2010 12:44:06 AM
Hey...ubi..is hiding. Krebby mind your manners. Greed is greed. Nothing more, nothing less. Greed is bad manners and needs a good and strict time-out.
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 215
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/8/2010 1:02:54 AM
Ubiquitous.,

Beside, greed is not good OR bad since, it is what it is. The effect of greed is what could be perceived as good or bad but then again, it will be pertaining to only the person who thinks it.

Ex., I win a million dollar, I will think that's good but, the guy who happened to owe a million buck and did not win and ended up losing everything will think it's bad. So who's right? Simple, it is what it is!
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 216
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History
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/8/2010 3:02:26 PM
you are so very young, you still believe you live in a market economy
you are laced with 36 000 dollars of debt, all american are, even the ones being born, thanks to the bail out, has that anything to do with your self interest.....
the fact that you are 22 years of age, and you do not have a chance in hell of working at a job and retiring from it, you because of your age are going to have at least 6 career changes in your life
your going to save and invest, chances are really great, you will loose your investments, and your savings, is that in your self interest
today, every 67 minutes an american looses there house, it could be you, is that in your best interest
when you get old, you will loose all your money, because of health problems, is that in your best interest
you say the government is behind the mess, you are the government, it is your fault that the government is not dealing with you and your issues, but rather the issues of corporations
i feel sorry for you, life has become so much harder, in the last 20 years,and it keeps getting harder
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 217
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/8/2010 4:03:07 PM
I thinking about "greed" vs "no-greed" is kind of silly. Greed is doing something for your self interest on a big scale. That doesn't necessarily mean it's at the expense of others. Many people who give are "greedy" at the feeling of the gift of giving.

I would say the question would be better put as "Is doing things for your self interests at the expense of others a good thing?" To that, I would say would depend on the balance between the two. If I could end up taking a million dollars by firing someone who was doing an okay job, sure. Of course, if I were to forgo giving them an awesome severance package, that would be bad. Not giving a sh!t about how things affect other people while only thinking of your self interests is bad for society, and will come to haunt you, too, if your attitude is defined that way. But looking out for your self interests in the correct way includes how it affects others, and in the end, it's just a question of strategy in terms of what works out for the best.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 218
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 7/9/2010 8:14:55 AM
How often do you look over the news and see greed constantly being blamed for our current financial crisis? Corporate greed, greed on Wall Street, greedy speculators, etc etc.
(...)
All things considered, I think greed - the desire to pursue one's self-interest - is a very good thing in our free market economy.

Thoughts?

Yeah. You're playing semantics games. The word ``greed'' as you've used it in the first sentence means a great deal more than pursuing one's own interests. It means pursuing one's own interests to the detriment of others by deception and by doing things that are probably not legal (and shouldn't be if they are). In any case, your argument hinges on your implicit assumption that people shouldn't be allowed to retaliate by whatever means is in their interests, like villifying them to rally public opinion against them. Furthermore, greed is not the way to pursue one's own interests. You can only con a greedy person, so if you are greedy, you are a good target. The only issue is what I need to dangle in front of you to get you to reach for it.

I've dealt with a guy who saw nothing wrong with ``pursuing his own interests'' and he was really good at it. He did it and got away with it for his entire adult life. I own his business and all of the assets of the business. He's a few hundred thousand dollars in debt with nothing to show for it. Never play a game for stakes if you aren't willing to lose more than you thought possible. Trying to take advantage of people can really bite you in the azz. You may think all is fair, but at the same time, you don't seem to realize that ``all'' can go way beyond the boundaries of what you thought was the playing field.

If you want to see an example of a real ``free market economy,'' get to know people who sell drugs and in general, pursue their own interests when there are no boundries on their pursuit.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 219
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 7/11/2010 9:44:11 PM
Greed and selling drugs are two different matters. For flippin sure.
If you sell drugs you have given up totally. You know there is no
hope that you can make an honest living. Greed is having enough
and wanting more...plain and simple. If those who sell drugs for a
living get greedy...so what??? They will face the same Karma. Enough
is enough....and don't screw with this fact. The righteous citizen can
also be as greedy as the drug dealer, even though, in many circumstances
the righteous citizen had more help and luck and fortune on their side.
No difference. Greed is greed.
 sarniafairyboy
Joined: 6/19/2010
Msg: 220
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 7/12/2010 11:39:01 AM
that was a good line for Michael Douglas in the role of "Gordon Gekko" in the 1987 movie "Wall Street"

that's about he only time it was" good" and as you can see from the date the movie came out, hardly an exciting new concept as you seem to think in your OP
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