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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Greed... is good? I definitely think so.      Home login  
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 Ubiquitous.
Joined: 11/7/2009
Msg: 233
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Greed... is good? I definitely think so.Page 13 of 14    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14)
Pretty freaking awesome that the moderators of this forum are deleting my posts despite the fact that I have been following all of the stated guidelines.

And yes, I have read them. Using the term "economic illiterate" is not flaming. Especially when it's true.

Pretty obvious whoever it is has an agenda if they claim those two words upset them.
 Dr. Gazebo
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 234
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 12/27/2009 8:35:16 PM
Greed is demanding more than you deserve. No, greed isnt good. Tsk tsk..u ought to know this as an adult. Or is the current generation so obssessed with it that they no longer can differentiate between want and need?
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 235
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 12/27/2009 9:08:53 PM

And yes, I have read them. Using the term "economic illiterate" is not flaming.


However, inviting people to disagree with you then calling them "dumbass" because they do is.

Insisting you're not acting the adolescent doesn't make it so.


Pretty obvious whoever it is has an agenda if they claim those two words upset them.


Ah yes, the insinuation that you're being censored because of an "agenda..." Ah, you'd make Anne Coulter, Bill O'Reilly and Tucker Carlson proud. Not hard to impress 'em though. Shiny objects serve equally well.
 Ubiquitous.
Joined: 11/7/2009
Msg: 236
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Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 12/28/2009 5:20:09 AM

However, inviting people to disagree with you then calling them "dumbass" because they do is.

First of all, that's not what I did. I called people, "dumb" when they made poor arguments. Anyone who made a decent case, even when they disagreed, was given proper respect. Look through the thread and you'll see this.

Secondly, those posts weren't deleted and I wasn't post banned for posting them.

And thirdly, that is not flaming. Not according to the rules stated in the Rules thread. The rules make it clear that flaming is when the poster makes no contribution to the thread.

My posts do. I fully admit my posts can be stinging.. but that's only because I'm up against the majority here, who are (legitimately) ignorant of basic economics. Wishywashy posts that don't call people out on their ignorance would be ignored when challenging such ingrained assumptions about minimum wages, self-interest, and "profits". They always are. That is why said false assumptions are so ingrained. No one challenges them.



None of my most stinging posts have been deleted and I wasn't banned for posting them. It's only when I really started putting forth a case against the minimum wage that I get deleted and banned. In the "thou shalt steal" thread, I made two posts simply stating a brief argument against minimum wage laws, and presented several resources. They couldn't have been more reserved. I simply laid out a case and added some references. And that was deleted. There were actually two of them.. and they both were slashed.

I can at least understand mods not liking how I say certain things.. even though I make sure to follow the posting guidelines. But it obvious that they care more about what I say - the points I make - rather than the tactics I use. And that is censorship.

Their forum.. their rules. But if mods are allowed to do this, then this place shouldn't claim to be a free exchange of ideas.
 Super_Eve
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 237
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 12/28/2009 6:25:04 AM

However, inviting people to disagree with you then calling them "dumbass" because they do is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, that's not what I did.


Yes, you did.


I called people, "dumb" when they made poor arguments.


You mean, when they disagreed with you.


Anyone who made a decent case, even when they disagreed, was given proper respect.


Subjective interpretation...who are you to dole out respect, as if it is an honour that you are bequeathing?



Secondly, those posts weren't deleted and I wasn't post banned for posting them.


Because we didn't report you. And you are abusing the privilege.


And thirdly, that is not flaming. Not according to the rules stated in the Rules thread. The rules make it clear that flaming is when the poster makes no contribution to the thread.


Read below...


Bashing, Insulting, Slamming other Posters

Report Posters who post Messages that insult, bash and slam other POF Members.
Same goes for Thread or Messages warning others of previous dates or meetings you have had in order to embarrass, slam or humiliate them.

You can slam & bash the Topic or Subject under Discussion all you like, but you cannot insult, bash and slam other Posters.


This is what you have done. You have called other posters idiots, and dumbasses.

Insults. It will be no longer tolerated.



None of my most stinging posts have been deleted and I wasn't banned for posting them.


Because you weren't reported. You were given a wide berth, and you abused it, and you are continuing to do so.


But it obvious that they care more about what I say - the points I make - rather than the tactics I use. And that is censorship.


It is not censorship, when you are infringing the on the rights of others. Insulting them is infringement...you are inhibiting the right for them to express themselves, through verbal abuse.



Their forum.. their rules. But if mods are allowed to do this, then this place shouldn't claim to be a free exchange of ideas.


It is a free exchange of ideas, within certain limits, which have nothing to do with your political or economic views. It has to do with this foreign concept, called "courtesy".
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 238
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 12/29/2009 7:33:31 PM
So, a fine rebuttal mwildflower. Are you hearing this young man? Greed still reeks of nothingness and nowhereness. Still.
 cdnfinanceman
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 239
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/5/2010 4:55:50 PM
greed is good, stupid greed isnt
wanting to make lots of money is very good
stealing money or stepping over people to make money isnt good
capitalism is good, communism isnt good.
Entrepreneurship is good, Wall street executives should be shot, ( well some of them, especially the idiots who came up with Credit Default swaps and other derivatives )
 Ubiquitous.
Joined: 11/7/2009
Msg: 240
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Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/5/2010 5:25:15 PM
I was hoping this thread could die off...
 Sherlock Pwns
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 241
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/7/2010 12:08:41 PM
The problem (or a large one anyway) lies within the definition is "good." Even beyond that, we have problems of scope.

It's easy to say 'prosperity is good' because they're both vague statements that ultimately appeal to emotion. They feel warm and fuzzy. Yay. If we become more specific, we can say something like 'massive prosperity for some and starvation for others' or 'widened prosperity from redistributionary policies'. It probably becomes a little more complicated than 'good' or 'bad'.

Greed can be useful, as could probably anything. Greed is an incentive that's fairly reliable in the sense of the term. Deciding whether or not it is good is a fool's game, unless we can all agree to a comprehensive idea of what is good. Good luck.
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 242
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/7/2010 12:22:59 PM
ALL things considered??? Are you serious?

Playing devil's advocate, I will mention how does pursuing one's own self-interest help others? By not allowing moneys to flow where it is intended to go, it will harm achieving that ultimate goal. Pursuing ONLY one's own self-interest is taking the stance of putting yourself ahead of everything else reasoning it and justifying it to yourself in whatever way you can. Is that RIGHT, who am I to answer that?

What I will say is that indeed greed has been reported for years and years and will surely keep on happening for years to come. I do think that indeed we need to look at what it is we all want to achieve in life and given what our social responsibilities are, i.e. paying the taxes we owe given ALL of our revenues, paying taxes and ALL of our purchases etc... by being a responsible asset to our society, we should all do our own help as is “just” given where we live.
 AtomicGogol
Joined: 4/4/2008
Msg: 243
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Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/7/2010 1:50:13 PM
From a biological standpoint, greed is sometimes necessary and sometimes unnecessary. Elephants are a good example. A herd might eat an entire field of foliage, and then another herd is stuck looking elsewhere. Conversely, when a herd member dies, the other elephants will attempt to actually bury him and maintain a vigil for a while. This is obviously dangerous because that gives predators a chance to sneak up and attack them, but they do it anyway.
My opinion is that greed is necessary for the survival of the unit (herd/family/country) but selflessness is a sign of intelligence beyond simple animal instincts. If greed gets to the point where you might be, oh I don't know, embezzling $2.3 billion from investors, I'd say you're functionally impaired. That has no benefit whatsoever to the individual or unit.
 Ubiquitous.
Joined: 11/7/2009
Msg: 244
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Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/7/2010 3:22:39 PM
Die! Die! Die! Die! Die!
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 245
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/7/2010 5:05:53 PM
Greed is eternal, so it must be good
Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!

Self never trumps community
Community never trumps the self
OH the conundrum !

How big and inclusive is your community?
How inclusive is your self?
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 246
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/8/2010 12:44:06 AM
Hey...ubi..is hiding. Krebby mind your manners. Greed is greed. Nothing more, nothing less. Greed is bad manners and needs a good and strict time-out.
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 247
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/8/2010 1:02:54 AM
Ubiquitous.,

Beside, greed is not good OR bad since, it is what it is. The effect of greed is what could be perceived as good or bad but then again, it will be pertaining to only the person who thinks it.

Ex., I win a million dollar, I will think that's good but, the guy who happened to owe a million buck and did not win and ended up losing everything will think it's bad. So who's right? Simple, it is what it is!
 Sherlock Pwns
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 248
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/8/2010 2:37:03 PM
The idea of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer isn't necessarily a bad thing though, Krebby2001. I could argue it facilitates a clearer leader-follower dichotomy in society which could just as easily be argued a good thing as a bad thing.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 249
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Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/8/2010 3:02:26 PM
you are so very young, you still believe you live in a market economy
you are laced with 36 000 dollars of debt, all american are, even the ones being born, thanks to the bail out, has that anything to do with your self interest.....
the fact that you are 22 years of age, and you do not have a chance in hell of working at a job and retiring from it, you because of your age are going to have at least 6 career changes in your life
your going to save and invest, chances are really great, you will loose your investments, and your savings, is that in your self interest
today, every 67 minutes an american looses there house, it could be you, is that in your best interest
when you get old, you will loose all your money, because of health problems, is that in your best interest
you say the government is behind the mess, you are the government, it is your fault that the government is not dealing with you and your issues, but rather the issues of corporations
i feel sorry for you, life has become so much harder, in the last 20 years,and it keeps getting harder
 itsallinthesoul
Joined: 6/26/2009
Msg: 250
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/8/2010 3:39:33 PM
I think the quest for "what is good for me" is the main reason why we are having so many social problems today...........so no, I do not think that greed is good.

We do not live on this planet alone, the things we do actually do impact other people. If you work hard and live a good life, you should have a good life. Sadly, it seems so many who are obsessed with money and status are the ones who are most unhappy.

Human relationships of quality are infinately more important than what one has in terms of material possessions/property/whatever. How many people really want to get close to others who make it a point to step on anyone they need to in the quest for getting what they think they deserve?
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 251
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 4/8/2010 4:03:07 PM
I thinking about "greed" vs "no-greed" is kind of silly. Greed is doing something for your self interest on a big scale. That doesn't necessarily mean it's at the expense of others. Many people who give are "greedy" at the feeling of the gift of giving.

I would say the question would be better put as "Is doing things for your self interests at the expense of others a good thing?" To that, I would say would depend on the balance between the two. If I could end up taking a million dollars by firing someone who was doing an okay job, sure. Of course, if I were to forgo giving them an awesome severance package, that would be bad. Not giving a sh!t about how things affect other people while only thinking of your self interests is bad for society, and will come to haunt you, too, if your attitude is defined that way. But looking out for your self interests in the correct way includes how it affects others, and in the end, it's just a question of strategy in terms of what works out for the best.
 jenniab
Joined: 1/24/2010
Msg: 252
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 7/9/2010 5:43:51 AM
How can Greed be good, it breeds malcontent, hatred, envy. It makes the normal middle class and lower class person cry, It is because of mans greed that every war on this planet has started. It is because of greed that so many countries are in trouble.
It is becuase of greed there are so man broken souls. If the greed of world banks was capped like the well off mexico should be then you would have more means to pursue your own personal greed, or need for lack of a better word.
The desire to pursue ones self interest is not greed it is a desire to better oneself and it is not only to do with material but with inner self too.

I am greedy I admit but not for the gold and wealth of the poor and ignorant
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 253
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 7/9/2010 8:14:55 AM
How often do you look over the news and see greed constantly being blamed for our current financial crisis? Corporate greed, greed on Wall Street, greedy speculators, etc etc.
(...)
All things considered, I think greed - the desire to pursue one's self-interest - is a very good thing in our free market economy.

Thoughts?

Yeah. You're playing semantics games. The word ``greed'' as you've used it in the first sentence means a great deal more than pursuing one's own interests. It means pursuing one's own interests to the detriment of others by deception and by doing things that are probably not legal (and shouldn't be if they are). In any case, your argument hinges on your implicit assumption that people shouldn't be allowed to retaliate by whatever means is in their interests, like villifying them to rally public opinion against them. Furthermore, greed is not the way to pursue one's own interests. You can only con a greedy person, so if you are greedy, you are a good target. The only issue is what I need to dangle in front of you to get you to reach for it.

I've dealt with a guy who saw nothing wrong with ``pursuing his own interests'' and he was really good at it. He did it and got away with it for his entire adult life. I own his business and all of the assets of the business. He's a few hundred thousand dollars in debt with nothing to show for it. Never play a game for stakes if you aren't willing to lose more than you thought possible. Trying to take advantage of people can really bite you in the azz. You may think all is fair, but at the same time, you don't seem to realize that ``all'' can go way beyond the boundaries of what you thought was the playing field.

If you want to see an example of a real ``free market economy,'' get to know people who sell drugs and in general, pursue their own interests when there are no boundries on their pursuit.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 254
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 7/11/2010 9:44:11 PM
Greed and selling drugs are two different matters. For flippin sure.
If you sell drugs you have given up totally. You know there is no
hope that you can make an honest living. Greed is having enough
and wanting more...plain and simple. If those who sell drugs for a
living get greedy...so what??? They will face the same Karma. Enough
is enough....and don't screw with this fact. The righteous citizen can
also be as greedy as the drug dealer, even though, in many circumstances
the righteous citizen had more help and luck and fortune on their side.
No difference. Greed is greed.
 sarniafairyboy
Joined: 6/19/2010
Msg: 255
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 7/12/2010 11:39:01 AM
that was a good line for Michael Douglas in the role of "Gordon Gekko" in the 1987 movie "Wall Street"

that's about he only time it was" good" and as you can see from the date the movie came out, hardly an exciting new concept as you seem to think in your OP
 az109
Joined: 7/3/2010
Msg: 256
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 7/12/2010 12:12:57 PM
Greed is evil. In fact, the whole reason why good and evil have been published is to discourage people from being greedy and similar bad behaviors. You can always twist things around to pretend that a bad thing results in some good, and that is propaganda, a form of lying, which when done in support of evil is an evil in itself.

The construct of good versus evil is a limited one that while sometimes useful cannot withstand scrutiny. It sort of works, for some things.

Greed is when one person wants what someone else has, without regard for the well being of the other person. It is placing self-interest ahead of humanity. That's good only for evil people within their private scheme of goodness. It's bad for everyone else.

You might as well argue that murdering someone with a pistol is good because the price of the bullet helped keep someone employed at the ammunition factory, allowing them to feed their children. It's absurd yet qualifies as an argument.

The two main lies of Capitalism are that greed is good and that markets are free. These flourish because to prove them wrong someone would have to demonstrate that humanity is capable of being served for its benefit generally, and nobody has been able to do that yet. Obvious truths have a habit of winning out even when ineffable.
 ILoveFriedEggs
Joined: 6/13/2010
Msg: 257
Greed... is good? I definitely think so.
Posted: 7/13/2010 2:57:01 AM
Imo greed, in material terms, is when you want over and above what is necessary to achieve a reasonable standard of comfort in life. Excessiveness. It may or may not involve the suffering or hardship of another. Whether motivated by ambition or purely by money, and it results in wealth and prosperity that one keeps wholly for themself or family, it would be greedy not to give some of that back to the community.
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