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 A_Gent
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 119
Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values? Page 6 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
".until everyone of our people are freed from this lunatic planet," Kohavah

Are you explaining something along the lines of the mother ship?

Because if you are referring something about humanity being removed from this lunatic planet.. .it ain't the planet that is lunatic.. and would likely be very happy to have us gone.

But then nobody would be around to make bestow beauty upon it.
 A_Gent
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 120
Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 1/31/2012 11:44:55 AM
"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce." Aristotle...

Pssst...

..... WE are MILLIONS of registered VOTERS.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wos-dDxpJlQ

Not corporations
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 121
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Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 1/31/2012 12:32:21 PM

POWER TO THE PEOPLE
...
Not corporations


Corporations are people too :roll:

Don't forget... Civilizations are built and survive with economies. It is quite acceptable to have laws that promote the economy. In fact when laws are presented for consideration they are usually presented with three basic points. Pros/Cons/Economic Impacts

Getting all grumpy at industry’s for having influence in government is kind of pointless. Getting all grumpy at Governments for being corrupted by industries is a good idea.

What would you rather have... The Agricultural industry telling California that in the current environment it will take n number of workers and resources to meet current demands or would you rather have the government pass a law that tells agriculture how much demand it is required to meet.
 kohavah
Joined: 12/31/2011
Msg: 122
Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 1/31/2012 2:38:54 PM
It is my opinion that laws do not really represent their societies moral and ethical values. They more than likely represent the morals and ethics of those who have the finances to buy thrones and enforcers of those thrones. The population of the USA is such that it would be quite difficult to know how all individuals really feel in relation to morality and ethics.

The medias have certain criteria they must follow in what and how they put forth information. When individuals are dependant upon the approval of pirates for economic advice, for scientific news pertaining to their health, their local, state national and world news, not to mention their very safety in every area of their lives, they know that they could put themselves or others in danger by attempting to stand against that which they know by tragic experience is very violent and dangerous.

When individuals are so grounded and held so tightly in swaddling bands to entangling networks of deception... whom the masses know are not working for their personal best interest... it is not fair to say that the laws represent their morality or their sense of justice. As far as voting is concerned I refuse to involve myself in such a hideous farce. This is not the moral law that I believe in and desire to adhere to.

This vile and corrupt system is the poisonous supper I was served in exchange for my true inheritance. I reject this filthy cup of toxic manure. No one in their right mind, who is free to choose right over wrong, would desire to choose the lesser of any evil to be their moral compass or to have a hideous pirate who calls itself a representative or lord...sit in their place in any authoritive capacity. I will pass this tainted system onto others who love it. Let them go down with their sinking vessels. I prefer a wholesome system, and a wholesome people. I will vote/choose nothing less.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 123
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Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 1/31/2012 2:50:10 PM

I prefer a wholesome system, and a wholesome people.


Where? I am assuming this is a place not accessible by anyone but just those few that are better than everyone elese?
 kohavah
Joined: 12/31/2011
Msg: 124
Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 1/31/2012 2:57:12 PM
When the various pirating systems you are forced to use fully collapse...without any hope of being resurrected...a wholesome way may be born....for all who desire it.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 125
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Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 1/31/2012 2:58:31 PM
ok, so your waiting for the collapse. But it must fully collapse so there are no remnants left...
 kohavah
Joined: 12/31/2011
Msg: 126
Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 1/31/2012 3:00:55 PM
Yes, fully and completely collapse with out any way or hope of survival. No life support for the systems in place...for they are not living beings.
 kohavah
Joined: 12/31/2011
Msg: 127
Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 1/31/2012 3:03:10 PM
You can only save people by destroying the entire structure of that which is their burden. You never save the burden, only the people thus grounded by that burden.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 128
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Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 1/31/2012 3:04:38 PM
And then what is the basis of the new law?
 kohavah
Joined: 12/31/2011
Msg: 129
Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 1/31/2012 3:12:34 PM
Genuine truth, uprightness, campassionate judgement, which would bring about a more perfect sense of justice. This is the base or foundation. The roots are understanding and the desire to be friends one to another, without scoring.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 130
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Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 1/31/2012 3:15:03 PM
So, something more along the line of how a good philosopical man would rule with compassion and wisdom and justice. The roots are in ethics and morality and reasoned wisdom.

Something like that?
 A_Gent
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 131
Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 1/31/2012 3:15:04 PM
"Getting all grumpy at industry’s for having influence in government is kind of pointless. Getting all grumpy at Governments for being corrupted by industries is a good idea." Msg 128

Could not agree more. David Korten in his book, When Corporations Rule the World, describes very well how corporations came about with the intent they were to serve the public good. At their origin, the owners lived in the same communities as the workers, and there it was a mutually beneficial relationship. Now, corporations are world wide and their only moral imperative is to increase share holder value ... Share holders who no longer live in the same community or have any personal interest in the welfare of the worker.

Corporations and vested interests (World Bank) - non elected persons and entities - are now dictating to governments their economic policies and lobbying to divest more and more of the cost of doing business to the state/tax payer. And such is their duty...to enhance share holder value by decreasing the cost of doing business.. in any legal way they can... even if that means changing the laws by lobbying the law makers and manipulating public opinion.

"We do not live in the age of reason. It is the age of flummery and the devious approach. Reason's gone behind closed doors where decisions are made to emote the public in one direction or another." J. Wyndham, The Trouble With Lichen.

The government, as the representative of the electorate/citizens, is to establish the parameters/laws for doing business, and to hold corporations accountable for the good of the public.

Citizens who allow themselves to be manipulated and/or support or neglect to hold a negligent or corrupt government accountable to them, get what they deserve. A government that represents their values and ethics... or lack thereof.

Power to the people... not corporations.
 Kohmelo
Joined: 9/20/2011
Msg: 132
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Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 1/31/2012 3:47:19 PM


A bit of repressed hostility issue here ... ? Seriously, tell us how you really feel.


no hostility.

Just a little dark humour.

LAUGH
 kohavah
Joined: 12/31/2011
Msg: 133
Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 1/31/2012 4:09:16 PM
Aries, you said,
So, something more along the line of how a good philosopical man would rule with compassion and wisdom and justice. The roots are in ethics and morality and reasoned wisdom.

Something like that?

My answer to that is yes, except that one man can not be expected to do this alone. This must be an upright effort of all, not just one.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 134
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Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 1/31/2012 4:48:39 PM
My answer to that is yes, except that one man can not be expected to do this alone. This must be an upright effort of all, not just one.


I was hoping you would say that. I would like to introduce you to our old friend Socrates through his student Plato: http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.html

What I described came from a concept he called, "The Philosopher King." The Philosopher King is the highest form of leadership. In fact I believe quite a bit of the concept of Jesus follows along this line. There is one fatal flaw with the "Philosopher King." He will die. If he is lucky he may have been able to pass on his wisdom to his children so they can continue his rule but most likely not and the erosion of those values lead to all the problems we already know. I think the labeling of Jesus as a King is an effort to overcome that limitation through the whole resurrection thing and therefor the "Philosopher King" lives forever and maintains an authority higher then established government.

Anyway, back to the Republic... Our laws, our ethics, our philosophy has much of its roots here. The United States is a Republic. What you have claimed as the new order is really the same as the origins that the United States is already based on.
 Kings_Knight
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 135
Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 2/1/2012 12:51:38 PM

" ... Yes, fully and completely collapse with out any way or hope of survival. No life support for the systems in place...for they are not living beings. ... "


"Like a spiral in a circle, like a wheel within a wheel ... " ... or, in the words of the Immortal Ray Charles: "Sing your song, Margie!" ... whatever. Jeez, this has really taken a turn for the worse ...
 A_Gent
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 136
Laws - do they really represent their societies moral & ehtical values?
Posted: 2/1/2012 1:21:43 PM
There are those who dare to look up ... and in looking up they see ... and in seeing desire to reach for the heavens ...

... and some who look down and want to crawl back into the primordial ooze.
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