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 AUTHOR
 from site to sight
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 51
ReligionPage 3 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
Why is it, when a country goes to war, religions don't publicly condemn the mass murdering and genocide? How can a church teach about the Ten Commandments-including the part about "Thou shall not kill", but say nothing when people are sent to war for the purpose of killing and/or torturing other people? Maybe that commandment should be changed to say "Thou shall not kill, unless the leader of your country says it's alright to kill. Then go out and slaughter as many people as you want to. It's OK to inflict them with a lot of pain before killing them." And any teaching about treating others like you would like to treated should tossed out, and replaced with "Treat people like shit if you want to, or if you're told to." There are cases where some religious leaders are actually in favor of war. What's the logic behind that?
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 52
Religion
Posted: 10/11/2017 7:49:38 PM
^


"Thou shall not kill",


the proper translation is "thou shall not murder"
there is nothing in the OT Bible that says that war cannot be waged especially in defense.
wars fought by opposing sides oft use the same weaponry, thus its not the killing that is the issue;
its the motive behind the killing (war) that comes into question.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 53
view profile
History
Religion
Posted: 10/11/2017 11:57:44 PM

Why is it, when a country goes to war, religions don't publicly condemn the mass murdering and genocide? How can a church teach about the Ten Commandments-including the part about "Thou shall not kill", but say nothing when people are sent to war for the purpose of killing and/or torturing other people? Maybe that commandment should be changed to say "Thou shall not kill, unless the leader of your country says it's alright to kill. Then go out and slaughter as many people as you want to. It's OK to inflict them with a lot of pain before killing them." And any teaching about treating others like you would like to treated should tossed out, and replaced with "Treat people like shit if you want to, or if you're told to." There are cases where some religious leaders are actually in favor of war. What's the logic behind that?

Do not question authority.

Obey.

Here endeth the lesson.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 54
Religion
Posted: 10/12/2017 4:23:55 AM
ah.
still trying to convince yourselves, atheists.
you need a better understanding of the whole.
but to parse, as you do,

King James Bible:
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.""


but you are right about one thing. the loud atheists, wherever i have worked, have been the people most afraid of the boss or management.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 55
view profile
History
Religion
Posted: 10/12/2017 7:25:35 AM

the loud atheists, wherever i have worked, have been the people most afraid of the boss or management.

Distrust, fear, resentment, disengagement. These are rational human responses to being controlled by others. Only a person predisposed to servility would accept such a state without significant internal turmoil. I would predict that on average, the more authoritarian the management style used, the greater was the negative response to it and the less creative and productive were the workers. Am I right?

"Whatever does not spring from a man’s free choice, or is only the result of instruction and guidance, does not enter into his very being, but remains alien to his true nature; he does not perform it with truly human energies, but merely with mechanical exactness." - Humboldt

I think that natural selection in economics has done more to advance freedom than any high minded philosophy. In any case, in our small moment in history it is still up to the free individual to have the courage to uphold their personal and professional principles... regardless of asserted doctrine or acts of injustice committed.

"The moment the slave resolves that he will no longer be a slave, his fetters fall. Freedom and slavery are mental states." - Gandhi

"Perhaps it is with greater fear that you pass the sentence upon me than I receive it." -Giordano Bruno
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 56
Religion
Posted: 10/13/2017 6:16:34 AM
^

whether you know it or not....you are serving someone in some way, as self centric as you likely are, you may not even realize it

it may be the devil or it may be the Lord....but you gonna have to serve somebody"

~ the great Bob Dylan
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 57
view profile
History
Religion
Posted: 10/13/2017 5:02:48 PM
here is a beautiful song ~ sung by Billybob Thorton ( the actor - he doesn't see. any beautiful door )

BEAUTIFUL DOOR ~ by BILLYBOB THORTON
 Kj521
Joined: 11/16/2016
Msg: 58
Religion
Posted: 10/13/2017 6:29:08 PM
"Perhaps it is with greater fear that you pass the sentence upon me than I receive it." -Giordano Bruno"



Love this! Thank you, Mr. Gingerosity.


Psst! Mr. Yule? This might be a good one for you to really try to process. :)
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 59
view profile
History
Religion
Posted: 10/13/2017 6:59:03 PM
OP.... When I was younger, I believed in God and how I pictured him.... Yes, God was a him in the religion I was raised in....Anyways, the religion I was raised in told me God knew all, and that the God my religion was pumping me full of was the only God and the God I should put my faith in..... Or else.... face HELL in the afterlife . If such a thing exists.

Then, I got out and about in OUR WORLD and began to formulate my own opinions about not just how OUR WORLD works but also my place in it. I still have a lot more questions than answers but I'm still kicking and that's what counts. If you're reading this I'm glad you're still kicking too. Opinion as usual.....
 Kj521
Joined: 11/16/2016
Msg: 60
Religion
Posted: 10/13/2017 7:19:15 PM
^^^^It is a personal journey....and one that must be traveled alone with a GPS guidance course calibrated to free will. :)
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 61
view profile
History
Religion
Posted: 10/13/2017 7:30:22 PM
#84, The journey is indeed personal for me too.... But, I dare say it's not a lonely journey at all. Ditch the GPS and ask othes their opinions/thoughts about life in general.... And yes, we can all do as we please which our free will dictates .But, our minds and humanity put our free will in check.At least, with most this is true....

It's a balance to me it seems. Laws of man, mans desires, and the laws of nature and what WE think the truth is. Which, always seems to be subject to new discoveries. Religion is man made, after all....
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 62
Religion
Posted: 10/13/2017 7:34:16 PM
kj says


Psst! Mr. Yule? This might be a good one for you to really try to process.


Yup...except that I ain't the one who passes "sentence"
I simply convey it from the book ( that you are allergic to) where Mr Jesus so clearly verbalizes it.....so perhaps you should prayerfully re-direct Mr Bruno's quip back the the Big "J" (as you call him), and let us know what he tells ya!

 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 63
view profile
History
Religion
Posted: 10/14/2017 6:08:54 PM
I do a substantial amount of work , around and within ~ churches. What I see > are people who are able to obtain, an internal strength within themselves. Haven't met any there, I didn't respect and admire.
In my opinion, they are an excellent group of people, going out of their way to help others.
I'm thankful we have them ~ I see much good, is getting done.
I myself, do not follow any particular religion. I have my own ideas about our creation and purpose.
I will state this though, I believe it fact ~ that something or someone created this universe (s) .
Reckon that's the stupid human in me, thinking there is cause and effect, for each action ~ within our world.
No magic though, everything is explainable - but one.
That one being, what put us here? With this, begs the question ~ and for what reason?
I call this the " entity " for lack of any better term, most would call it God. I understand that many, have and will continue, to abuse the power of religion. This does not mean all do, or even the majority.

There are good forces at work, often hidden from view, but they are there ~ just the same.

here's a song about a religious experience, it's kind of cool ~ give it a listen ..
STAND ~ by MERMAIDS IN THE BASEMENT
....................
TURN IT UP ^^^
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 64
Religion
Posted: 10/14/2017 8:16:39 PM

there is cause and effect, for each action ~ within our world.

That one being, what put us here? With this, begs the question ~ and for what reason?

I wonder... why do you assume... there must be some... "action"... in all of this...?

That we must have been... "put"... here... Or... that there must have been a... "reason"...?

Why can't it just... "be"... like a vacuum fluctuation... no "action"... no "put"... no "reason"...
 Kj521
Joined: 11/16/2016
Msg: 65
Religion
Posted: 10/14/2017 8:32:35 PM
"Why can't it just... "be"... like a vacuum fluctuation... no "action"... no "put"... no "reason"..."


If this is true....then the scientists at CERN are wasting a whole lot of money and effort.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 66
Religion
Posted: 10/14/2017 9:46:55 PM

If this is true....then the scientists at CERN are wasting a whole lot of money and effort.

How do you figure...? It is because of physicists... just like the guys at CERN... that we are even aware of vacuum fluctuations... much less having observed them in all the states of... "becoming"... just "being"... and... ceasing to "be"...

All with... no "action"... no "put"... and no "reason"...

Funny how that happens... when you only "see" what you want to "see" (or should that be "know" what you want to "know"...)...? I guess "bleach burns deep", huh...?
 Kj521
Joined: 11/16/2016
Msg: 67
Religion
Posted: 10/15/2017 4:15:20 AM
"How do you figure...? It is because of physicists... just like the guys at CERN... that we are even aware of vacuum fluctuations"


While this may be true.....I think some of the folks at CERN are "special". And like me....see the quantum world as a "bridge" rather than the "answer".


"Funny how that happens... when you only "see" what you want to "see" (or should that be "know" what you want to "know"


If only that were true! I would have CERN recreate a Rainbow universe just for me (cause I am kinda selfish like that)! :D


"I guess "bleach burns deep", huh...?"

Quite damaging to the hair, too. Luckily for me....I am adding more color to my hair these days. So different chemicals at work. :/
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 68
view profile
History
Religion
Posted: 10/15/2017 9:24:26 AM
" why can't it just be ~ like a vacuum fluctuation "

^^^^ funny, you should mention a vacuum ~ ... This here universe, is one complicated vacuum fluctuation, is it not Joe ? col ....

In my world, the universe appears similar to a petri dish, one in which a form of intelligence is desired to begin & thrive. It seems to me-


even a "vacuum ", needs to be created ~ whether it is a by-product, or a created distinction. Funny, what a few gasses introduced into a vacuum, can result in ~ given a time factor & a little " fairy dust " thrown in, col.

But I, don't pretend to know ~ the reason why we're here ~ I have only a guess, maybe it's a womb -
for a creature, we can hardly imagine ? No one knows, and may never know .....
for sure, there is a time factor involved - which includes
the expansion of space, matter & time ..... and the possible retraction. Either way you look at it, it's fascinating
beyond description.

A rainbow universe, created just for KJ ~ I second that emotion !! ( clicks ruby slippers together - 3 times ..... there's no place like home, there's no place like home. col )
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 69
Religion
Posted: 10/15/2017 2:23:32 PM

even a "vacuum ", needs to be created ~

As you seem convinced that "nothing can exist without a creator", who or what created the alleged "creator"?
-and who or what created him?
And so on...

The only difference between an atheist, and any believer in any of the religions,
Is that while they share the belief that the other 9,999 religions ions are wrong, we differ on only one.
If there are 10,000 different religions,
Then, "Believers" are 99.99% "atheist", already.

The geographical 'epicentre' of the three "abrahamic" religions have been murdering each other, in the name of those religions, since they were first invented, and they continue to do so.
Despite all claiming to be "peaceful".
Funny that.

If "god" existed, you'd think he might have stepped in, and stopped all the senseless violence and murder.

And I can't imagine any other other context where people would readily accept the obsession, fetishisation, and mutilation, of the genitals of babies.
Just think about that, objectively, for a moment.
Scary.

And then there was the systemic and systematic sexual abuse of who-knows-how-many innocent children, by "god's" chosen disciples, in the very place where those charlatans , oops sorry, I mean "priests" claim to be in the "presence of god".
And yet "god" didn't seem to mind all that going on in his special "holy" buildings,
maybe if he exists, he likes to watch that sort of thing?

Religions: I can't think of anything more silly.
-Except, maybe, making Trump President.
 Kj521
Joined: 11/16/2016
Msg: 70
Religion
Posted: 10/15/2017 3:02:18 PM
"If "god" existed, you'd think he might have stepped in, and stopped all the senseless violence and murder."


This is a hard one to deal with isn't it, Mr. Jovan? A whole lot of people get stuck on this one...including myself from time to time. :)

No easy answers, either.


"by "god's" chosen disciples, in the very place where those charlatans , oops sorry, I mean "priests" claim to be in the "presence of god"."


Do you see the problem with this statement?

Let me help you. ....

"by "god's" chosen disciples".........&........."preists" claim to be in the "presence of god"

Hmmm......chosen & claim. What could be the problem here? :)





 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 71
Religion
Posted: 10/15/2017 3:44:55 PM

even a "vacuum ", needs to be created

Well... actually... no it doesn't "need" to be "created"... As "nothing"... it is inherent to a lack of "something"... No universe you say...? Well... Voila (just for you ruby)... you have a vacuum...

Or do you suggest that... "nothing"... must be "created"... by a "will" to have "nothing"... for the purpose to have "nothing"...?

whether it is a by-product,


Really...? How can "nothing" be a "by-product"...?

Is not a "by-product" a secondary "something"... that is derived from another "something"...?

I'm wondering... just exactly when... "something" and "nothing" became interchangeable... Wouldn't that imply... that you really can "have something for nothing"... "blood from a stone"... and that the proverbial "free lunch"... really is free... and a lunch...?

or a created distinction.

As a word... of human creation... to describe a "nothing" that requires no creation... yes... it is a "created distinction"... but one that exists after-the-fact... not prior... The "nothing"... existed before any "created distinction"... not as a result of the "created distinction"... Ergo... "nothing" is not a result of any "creation"... and does not require a "something" for existence...

People require such "distinctions"... so that we can talk to one another about them... the natural conditions we "distinguish" do not... They simply "are" without any regard... or concern... for the "distinctions" people create for themselves... for their own purposes...

Everything does not boil down to... "agency"... despite the fact that some... simply can't grasp a "lack of agency" (it's a cognitive skill that, like the ability to grasp mathematics, requires that certain will to develop)...
 Kj521
Joined: 11/16/2016
Msg: 72
Religion
Posted: 10/15/2017 8:05:11 PM
"Everything does not boil down to... "agency"... despite the fact that some... simply can't grasp a "lack of agency" (it's a cognitive skill that, like the ability to grasp mathematics, requires that certain will to develop)..."


A skill developed by those who prefer to be....Comfortably Numb.


Which....I have not become. Wish you were here.....though. :)
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 73
view profile
History
Religion
Posted: 10/16/2017 11:53:46 AM
" who or what created the creator " ??

Good question, I have only a guess .... A guess which is WAY out there and hard, if not impossible, to comprehend. This being that the " creator " has always existed, and is not subject to time, in any way. As a pure energy source, it never ages - as time is a creation of the big bang, within the parameters of our universe ~ in my op. In addition, " it " cannot die, so to speak .... " the entity " ~ just is, and always will be.


" if god existed- you think he might have stepped in, and stopped all the senseless violence and murder "

No. I don't think that's the plan ... in my mind, the entity will never step, or " look " in . It knows exactly what is taking place ( good and bad ) and evil and misery are intended to be conquered, as part of our progression & metamorphosis. This being steps, in becoming - a pure energy source, as " it " could be.

^^^^ I mean, all this sounds really far fetched, I know ..... but life itself is a bit far fetched, all on its own, col.

" or do you suggest that " nothing " must be created " ???

Yes, that's how I see it. The nothingness of an endless vacuum was created expressly to create another entity ( or entities ), this being accomplished when humans become pure energy sources, capable of who knows what ? The nearest comparison I can make is that the " entity " has made this physical universe, to create a duplicate of itself.
OK ! I know you all think I'm flat out crazy, but I don't really give an f . I just question our purpose and wonder why we are here. I don't think of it , as an accident or that we are " just here" for no reason whatsoever.

ps 1 ~ " KJ ~ Wish you were here " :) <<< maybe they are, and existing on " the dark side of the moon " col ( chuckle out loud )
ps 2 ~ to Joe ..... Obviously - you are a very intelligent person, and you have my respect !
Thank you for your observations, I will always wish to keep learning ~ is that not what, constructive life ~ is about ?
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 74
Religion
Posted: 10/16/2017 12:49:16 PM
^^^ Herod Jovan's justification for no God is really pretty simple:

1) Since there are so many religions who have different beliefs...God cannot exist

2) If god did exist, he would have shown himself.

Herod ignores the likelihood that God is not a Personal God and does not interfere with or maybe even care about human affairs, nor does Herod accept that God can neither be objectified nor explained nor judged by mankind.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 75
Religion
Posted: 10/16/2017 1:15:11 PM
@ Back


This being that the " creator " has always existed, and is not subject to time, in any way. As a pure energy source, it never ages - as time is a creation of the big bang, within the parameters of our universe ~ in my op. In addition, " it " cannot die, so to speak .... " the entity " ~ just is, and always will be.


I fully concur....well said


in my mind, the entity will never step, or " look " in . It knows exactly what is taking place ( good and bad ) and evil and misery are intended to be conquered, as part of our progression & metamorphosis.


again...well stated!


The nothingness of an endless vacuum was created expressly to create another entity ( or entities ), this being accomplished when humans become pure energy sources, capable of who knows what ? The nearest comparison I can make is that the " entity " has made this physical universe, to create a duplicate of itself.


I couldn't disagree


I know you all think I'm flat out crazy,


not at all...I believe you are very insightful.........I must say, I am impressed!!!
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