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 Kj521
Joined: 11/16/2016
Msg: 76
ReligionPage 4 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
"Everything does not boil down to... "agency"... despite the fact that some... simply can't grasp a "lack of agency" (it's a cognitive skill that, like the ability to grasp mathematics, requires that certain will to develop)..."


A skill developed by those who prefer to be....Comfortably Numb.


Which....I have not become. Wish you were here.....though. :)
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 77
view profile
History
Religion
Posted: 10/16/2017 11:53:46 AM
" who or what created the creator " ??

Good question, I have only a guess .... A guess which is WAY out there and hard, if not impossible, to comprehend. This being that the " creator " has always existed, and is not subject to time, in any way. As a pure energy source, it never ages - as time is a creation of the big bang, within the parameters of our universe ~ in my op. In addition, " it " cannot die, so to speak .... " the entity " ~ just is, and always will be.


" if god existed- you think he might have stepped in, and stopped all the senseless violence and murder "

No. I don't think that's the plan ... in my mind, the entity will never step, or " look " in . It knows exactly what is taking place ( good and bad ) and evil and misery are intended to be conquered, as part of our progression & metamorphosis. This being steps, in becoming - a pure energy source, as " it " could be.

^^^^ I mean, all this sounds really far fetched, I know ..... but life itself is a bit far fetched, all on its own, col.

" or do you suggest that " nothing " must be created " ???

Yes, that's how I see it. The nothingness of an endless vacuum was created expressly to create another entity ( or entities ), this being accomplished when humans become pure energy sources, capable of who knows what ? The nearest comparison I can make is that the " entity " has made this physical universe, to create a duplicate of itself.
OK ! I know you all think I'm flat out crazy, but I don't really give an f . I just question our purpose and wonder why we are here. I don't think of it , as an accident or that we are " just here" for no reason whatsoever.

ps 1 ~ " KJ ~ Wish you were here " :) <<< maybe they are, and existing on " the dark side of the moon " col ( chuckle out loud )
ps 2 ~ to Joe ..... Obviously - you are a very intelligent person, and you have my respect !
Thank you for your observations, I will always wish to keep learning ~ is that not what, constructive life ~ is about ?
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 78
Religion
Posted: 10/16/2017 12:49:16 PM
^^^ Herod Jovan's justification for no God is really pretty simple:

1) Since there are so many religions who have different beliefs...God cannot exist

2) If god did exist, he would have shown himself.

Herod ignores the likelihood that God is not a Personal God and does not interfere with or maybe even care about human affairs, nor does Herod accept that God can neither be objectified nor explained nor judged by mankind.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 79
Religion
Posted: 10/16/2017 1:15:11 PM
@ Back


This being that the " creator " has always existed, and is not subject to time, in any way. As a pure energy source, it never ages - as time is a creation of the big bang, within the parameters of our universe ~ in my op. In addition, " it " cannot die, so to speak .... " the entity " ~ just is, and always will be.


I fully concur....well said


in my mind, the entity will never step, or " look " in . It knows exactly what is taking place ( good and bad ) and evil and misery are intended to be conquered, as part of our progression & metamorphosis.


again...well stated!


The nothingness of an endless vacuum was created expressly to create another entity ( or entities ), this being accomplished when humans become pure energy sources, capable of who knows what ? The nearest comparison I can make is that the " entity " has made this physical universe, to create a duplicate of itself.


I couldn't disagree


I know you all think I'm flat out crazy,


not at all...I believe you are very insightful.........I must say, I am impressed!!!
 from site to sight
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 80
Religion
Posted: 10/16/2017 4:20:15 PM

" if god existed- you think he might have stepped in, and stopped all the senseless violence and murder "

No. I don't think that's the plan ... in my mind, the entity will never step, or " look " in . It knows exactly what is taking place ( good and bad ) and evil and misery are intended to be conquered, as part of our progression & metamorphosis.


If no higher power steps in to intervene with human life, why do so many people pray to the higher power and pray for miracles? Would that mean churches and other religious institutions are basically useless, since praying for something doesn't work because the higher power says you're on your own to control your own destiny?
 Kj521
Joined: 11/16/2016
Msg: 81
Religion
Posted: 10/16/2017 4:37:33 PM
"why do so many people pray to the higher power and pray for miracles?"


God's miracles are occurring all the time. You just don't recognize them as such.

He does intervene...indirectly....through the hearts of His creation....His ultimate miracle....us. :)
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 82
view profile
History
Religion
Posted: 10/16/2017 5:18:11 PM
" the intervention is indirect, comes through the heart of HIS creation "

^ absolutely true, I believe ~
as I do that - we are created in the entities own image ...

thank you yule , I'm VERY flattered ~ WOW ! seriously !


welp > speaking of music KJ ( col ) ~ this ones for you

HEAVEN ( I wanna know how far ) by the LOS LONELY BOYS
( respectfully speaking ~ I can see you dancing to this one, col )

heart / sun
 Kj521
Joined: 11/16/2016
Msg: 83
Religion
Posted: 10/16/2017 5:37:41 PM
"respectfully speaking ~ I can see you dancing to this one"


You would be right about that. ;)

In fact....I have a lovely memory of doing just that.....band was playing this song..... at a quaint east coast beach bar....margarita in one hand....shoes in the other...and warm sand between the toes....and my girlfriends and I singing way off key! Lol!


Thank you for the smile!
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 84
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 6:04:16 AM
People pray because it makes them feel good to do so. God does not respond to prayers though....that much is undoubtedly true, assuming he hears prayers at all, which if he exists, I highly doubt. Why people persist in praying? Who else can solve their many problems?
.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 85
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 7:01:05 AM
If you were provided indisputable proof there was no god, would you live your life differently? If you were provided indisputable proof there was one god, would you live your life differently?
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 86
view profile
History
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 7:18:40 AM
^^^^ the answer to the above question, for me personally ~ is no ...


Religion / prayer ~ and all involved, can give people the " mindset " that there is something greater then themselves. It seems to me, this is a good thing in itself. Often though, religion can be used as a weapon ( a reason to inflict harm or
worse, on others ) Like most anything good, it can be abused and taken out of context.

Overall though, as I personally consider each and every alternative ~ I find faith ( within others ) to be a positive guiding light, amidst the darkness that surrounds us.

For each ~ his / her own, if it makes you a " better " person ....
I say, this is good !
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 87
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 7:34:36 AM
^^^^And studies show that religious people are generally happier than the nonereligious thr world over. Religion serves a distinct beneficent purpose. If people are happier praying, more power to them.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 88
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 8:00:11 AM
prayer does the same thing for many as TM does for others. ( who others also think are nuts).
 benartflick
Joined: 3/8/2012
Msg: 89
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 8:13:58 AM

God's miracles are occurring all the time. You just don't recognize them as such.


I suspected quite a few - not sure if they were God's miracles, but got me wondering.

I'm not convinced there's a God beyond a reasonable doubt. Still undecided! My guess I'll be a believer at the time of my death - like a lot of well known atheists were.

Any poker player will tell you - there are Poker Gods and Poker Devils.

Kj, I'll give one (of many) unusual event that got me wondering if there was help from someone watching over me. While I was mixed up with the case involving the woman who was fired for wanting her boss to stop sexually harassing her, I won 9,400 bucks with a hole in one. Shortly later I was fired and that money (with my savings) enabled me to survive 54 weeks without a job.

A few abnormal things happened that made that hole-in-one possible (including a lost golf club).

That year of unemployment was the best year of my life. I even looked good (which was odd). And near the end of that long vacation I met a fantastic woman. We had almost 23 pleasurable years together. How we met and something that took place nines months prior to that meeting makes me think she might've been sent to me from heaven above. Don't know. I do wonder! Perhaps a miracle.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 90
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 8:20:08 AM
...but the questions still remain, regardless of studies showing that the religious tend to be "happier" (which is subjective and transient), would or could people live their lives the same either with proof of a god or with proof of no god?

Speaking of studies on the topic, it's not necessarily the belief in the religion itself that tends to make the religious happier, but the social aspect of religion, rather than the theological or spiritual aspect of religion. In other words a commonality and a sense of belonging (tribal), rather than the religion itself.

https://www.livescience.com/9090-religion-people-happier-hint-god.html
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 91
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 8:30:15 AM

Would or could people live their lives the same either with proof of a god or with proof of no god?


I think that many people, the non-religious especially and specifically, are fatalistic about life...the feeling that in the end, nothing we do really matters..that we are all living a purposeless existence. From star dust to dust again. Despite a lack of religion, though, I do believe that most people attempt to live moral and decent lives, but there are obviously many who are not concerned about morality, they live life as they choose to live it figuring nothing matters in the end. For true believers in God, believing that life is merely a transition to another state of being has got to have a significant impact on how they view their own lives imho.

I do agree about the Social aspects of Religion by the way, that makes it so powerful. The tribal aspects of that Sunday morning Church gathering cannot be ignored.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 92
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 9:43:45 AM

Your thoughts on: Religion

religion is in actuality a belief in the paranormal and aliens ...you got your ghosts demons angels and all of them are from another planet


Religion, according to Merriam-Webster, is "a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practice."

religion is a set of laws handed down by a Supernatural Entity ..... even Spinoza's God


I don't label myself as being in a religion, because I don't fully adhere to any institutionalized systems

it's impossible to believe in God and not be religious ...the belief itself is the religion


Posted By: Kj521
God's miracles are occurring all the time. You just don't recognize them as such.

Miracles are occurrence that defy and/or cancel out the laws of physics ....if you can't name any such occurrences that is an indication that miracles as of now only exist in the Bible or in the mind...Miracles it any occur through Magic aka Witchcraft "paranormal activity"


Posted By: Kj521
He does intervene...indirectly

any intervention from The Lord Almighty cancels out Free Will ..that's why there's no Miracles ...other than Smokey Robinson and The Miracles ...and even Smokey eventually went solo


Posted By: Kj521
His ultimate miracle....us. :)

didn't The Lord Almighty grieve that he made Man ...sounds more like a mistake than a miracle


Posted By: poppata
Religion serves a distinct beneficent purpose.

you get paid days off from work .
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 93
view profile
History
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 9:47:05 AM
Not believing in any kind of deity has never changed my feelings about what is right and what is wrong. It's never made me feel it's okay to harm others, etc.,just like anyone else. You either are a good person or you are not, no amount of believing in some higher power will make a bad person be good, nor will non- belief make you be a bad person, you are who you are.
As for miracles, good things happening to you are not miracles, these things happen because they do. A miracle is when something that literally can not happen, happens. If you see a car out of nowhere turn into dog, with no intervention, just poof car then dog, you've seen a miracle. A stroke of luck or being at the ritght place at the right time, etc., you know that's not a miracle. Come on.
 benartflick
Joined: 3/8/2012
Msg: 94
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 10:12:30 AM

A miracle is when something that literally can not happen, happens.


noun: miracle; plural noun: miracles
a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency.

"the miracle of Forrest Gump winning the election"

synonyms: wonder, marvel, sensation, phenomenon, supernatural phenomenon, mystery
"his recovery was a blessed miracle"

a highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences.
"it was a miracle that more people hadn't been killed or injured"

an extremely outstanding or unusual event, thing, or accomplishment
"Their win was a miracle: three touchdowns in the last two minutes of play"

synonyms: wonder, marvel, sensation, phenomenon, supernatural phenomenon, mystery
"his recovery was a blessed miracle" "It would take a miracle for this team to win"

I bet if we had a conversation, you would be telling me how to pronounce 'either' and 'tomato'.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 95
view profile
History
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 10:14:33 AM
LOL. Thanks for proving my point.
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 96
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 10:51:26 AM
for whatever personal reason/s, if an adult chooses to have a religious belief system, do so for yourself

* parents need to stop exploiting young minds. . . education without indoctrination
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 97
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 11:25:14 AM
most adults that i know who cry loudly " i am an atheists but know right from wrong anyway "were raised in a religion as a child.

and most of those were raised jewish.
not all.
just most that i know.
( i have learned to say more than necessary here)

____________
so what do the atheists here think about the people who reference a "higher power" whether on their own or in AA or some such?

are they religious whether they like it or not?

(insisting that someone is religious when he or she says that he or she is not reminds me of people insisting that Albrright was jewsish when she was raised catholic and later was an episcopalian. )
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 98
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 11:55:01 AM

most adults that i know who cry loudly " i am an atheists but know right from wrong anyway "were raised in a religion as a child.

and most of those were raised jewish.


Like your good friend Flick, you truly are a blathering idiot. So sad...as if you have any idea of how the typical Jew was raised...even if you were raised Jewish...you don't know. Do you know why Dee? Because you are not part of the tribe. You don't become part of the tribe simply by calling yourself a jew or even converting to a Jew. There is a Jewish culture you know nothing about.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 99
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 12:20:39 PM

most adults that i know who cry loudly " i am an atheists but know right from wrong anyway "were raised in a religion as a child.

So, is the insinuation that because some people who were raised in a religion know right from wrong because of having been raised in a religion at an early age, even if they no longer follow the exploitation/indoctrination? What of those who are atheist and were raised sans religion but know right from wrong...anyway? Does knowing right from wrong require a religious belief, is it inherent in an individual, or is it a combination of being inherent and/or simply being guided in right from wrong without the insertion of religion while the mind develops its own sense of right and wrong?





so what do the atheists here think about the people who reference a "higher power" whether on their own or in AA or some such? are they religious whether they like it or not?

They're susceptible to a belief in a higher power for a myriad of reasons, no doubt. They require an explanation (even if non-fact based) for why life, in particular theirs, is what it is and the way it is. It's how their brains process fact, fiction and the unknown. I can't see how you can be religious and not "like" it. If you don't like something, you generally don't participate unless you're masochistic or faking it.


(insisting that someone is religious when he or she says that he or she is not reminds me of people insisting that Albrright was jewsish when she was raised catholic and later was an episcopalian. )

...either way, "Albrright" would still be a religious person...regardless of the sect or subset changing. You either are religious or aren't in the same way you can't be a strict vegetarian at the same time you have a diet consisting of all things meat.

vvv that would only make sense if I said I don't like posting...I'm neither masochistic nor faking it. I have no idea if you're masochistic or a fake, but you definitely have twisted "logic", not to mention an inability to debate effectively. And...er...wouldn't your below comment be an ad hominem...ya know...that which you constantly accuse everyone else of unless you, yourself are doing it??...hmmm???
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 100
Religion
Posted: 10/17/2017 12:31:29 PM
""I can't see how you can be religious and not "like" it. If you don't like something, you generally don't participate unless you're masochistic or faking it.""""


that sentence explains all your posts.

Thanks. huh.
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