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 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 35
Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.Page 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

The problem with your argument is that you are basing it on your own assumption and conclusions about whether or not Bush actually lied about WMD's...one would have to be agreement with your postion in regards to the WMD's issue for your allegations of Hypocricy to be valid.....regardless of this it is not relevant to the discussion, the thread is about the Obama administration and their puproseful dissemination of fradulent reports....


The problem with my argument is that...I'm not presenting an argument, I am presenting my opinion.

Bush lied about the WMD.
Colin Powell lied about the WMD.
I don't care if you are anyone else is in agreement with my opinion.
The accusatioin--not allegation--of hypocrisy stands, regardless of whether or not you or anyone else agrees with me.

For someone who doesn't deem my opinion to be relevant to the discussion, you've certainly responded to it enough times--is that another example of hypocrisy?

I'll have to ponder that.
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 36
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/21/2009 11:38:21 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationale_for_the_Iraq_War

The failure to find stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq caused considerable controversy, particularly in the United States. U.S. President George W. Bush and Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Tony Blair defended their decision to go to war, alleging that many nations, even those opposed to war, believed that the Hussein government was actively developing WMDs.

Critics such as Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean charged that the Bush and Blair administrations deliberately falsified evidence to build a case for war.[56] These criticisms were strengthened with the 2005 release of the so-called Downing Street Memo, written in July 2002, in which the former head of British Military Intelligence wrote that "the intelligence and facts were being fixed [by the US] around the policy" of removing Saddam Hussein from power.[57]

While the Downing Street Memo and the yellowcake uranium scandal lend credence to claims that intelligence was manipulated, two bipartisan investigations, one by the Senate Intelligence Committee and the other by a specially appointed Iraq Intelligence Commission chaired by Charles Robb and Laurence Silberman, found no direct evidence of political pressure applied to intelligence analysts.[58] An independent assessment by the Annenberg Public Policy Center found, however, that Bush Administration officials did misuse intelligence in their public communications. For example, Vice President****Cheney's September 2002 statement on Meet the Press that "we do know, with absolute certainty, that he (Saddam) is using his procurement system to acquire the equipment he needs in order to enrich uranium to build a nuclear weapon" was inconsistent with the views of the intelligence community at the time.[58]

A study coauthored by nonprofit, liberal journalism organization the Center for Public Integrity found that in the two years after September 11, 2001 the president and top administration officials had made 935 false statements, in an orchestrated public relations campaign to galvanize public opinion for the war, and that the press was largely complicit in its uncritical coverage of the reasons adduced for going to war.[59][60] PBS commentator Bill Moyers had made similar points throughout the run up to the Iraq War, and prior to a national press conference on the Iraq War[21] Moyers correctly predicted "at least a dozen times during this press conference he [the President] will invoke 9/11 and Al Qaeda to justify a preemptive attack on a country that has not attacked America. But the White House press corps will ask no hard questions tonight about those claims."[61][62] Moyers later also denounced the complicity of the press in the administration's campaign for the war, saying that the media "surrendered its independence and skepticism to join with [the US] government in marching to war," and that the administration "needed a compliant press, to pass on their propaganda as news and cheer them on."[62]

Many in the intelligence community expressed sincere regret over the flawed predictions about Iraqi weapons programs. Testifying before Congress in January 2004, David Kay, the original director of the Iraq Survey Group, said unequivocally that "It turns out that we were all wrong, probably in my judgment, and that is most disturbing."[63] He later added in an interview that the intelligence community owed the President an apology.[64]

In the aftermath of the invasion, much attention was also paid to the role of the press in promoting government claims concerning WMD production in Iraq. Between 1998 and 2003, The New York Times and other influential U.S. newspapers published numerous articles about suspected Iraqi rearmament programs with headlines like "Iraqi Work Toward A-Bomb Reported" and "Iraq Suspected of Secret Germ War Effort." It later turned out that many of the sources for these articles were unreliable, and that some were tied to Ahmed Chalabi, an Iraqi exile with close ties to the Bush Administration who was a consistent supporter of an invasion.[65][66][67]

Some controversy also exists regarding whether the invasion increased or decreased the potential for nuclear proliferation. For example, hundreds of tons of dual-use high explosives that could be used to detonate fissile material in a nuclear weapon were sealed by the IAEA at the Al Qa'qaa site in January 2003. Immediately before the invasion, UN Inspectors had checked the locked bunker doors, but not the actual contents; the bunkers also had large ventilation shafts that were not sealed. By October, the material was no longer present. The IAEA expressed concerns that the material might have been looted after the invasion, posing a nuclear proliferation threat. The U.S. released satellite photographs from March 17, showing trucks at the site large enough to remove substantial amounts of material before U.S. forces reached the area in April. Ultimately, Major Austin Pearson of Task Force Bullet, a task force charged with securing and destroying Iraqi ammunition after the invasion, stated that the task force had removed about 250 tons of material from the site and had detonated it or used it to detonate other munitions. Similar concerns were raised about other dual use materials, such as high strength aluminum; before the invasion, the U.S. cited them as evidence for an Iraqi nuclear weapons program, while the IAEA was satisfied that they were being used for permitted industrial uses; after the war, the IAEA emphasized the proliferation concern, while the Duelfer report mentioned the material's use as scrap. Possible chemical weapons laboratories have also been found which were built subsequent to the 2003 invasion, apparently by insurgent forces.[68]

On August 2, 2004, President Bush stated "Knowing what I know today we still would have gone on into Iraq.… The decision I made is the right decision. The world is better off without Saddam Hussein in power."[69]
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 37
Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/21/2009 3:43:06 PM

These reports have NOTHING to do with GW and the lies his administration told about the war.


The reactions to these reports have EVERYTHING to do with hypocrisy.


If anyone is being two-faced it's those that keep say since GW did it and no one complained then what is the problem with Obama doing it. GW's approval ratings were in the mid 20s when he left office.


'...those that keep say (sic)...'
As pointed out, ad nauseum, it isn't about the reports--it is about those who steadfastly supported Bush when he lied to the country--the world--about the non-existent WMD who are now castigating Obama for reports that he was given.

I don't give any size shit what Bush's approval ratings were.


When will people realize that Obama needs to start working on doing more accurate research, report gathering and putting this out to the public instead of all the misstatement, non-truths and lies that we have been getting the majority of the time.

THIS is one of the major problems with those who disparage Obama--that lack of research, and the eagerness with which those same people post polls and articles from dubious sources.
THIS is one of the most blatant examples of hypocrisy on this board.


Yes I consider that fact that we are only getting the whole truth 20% of the time from Obama to mean we are not getting the whole truth the majority of the time.

From where does this percentage come?
What is the source?
Where is the link?


This erroneous fraudulent report on stimulus jobs created or saved has nothing to do with GW or the Iraq war. So quit trying to compare Obama deceptiveness to GW's.

TFB. Not gonna happen.

Those reports from the states had nothing to do with Obama, himself. The states turned in their information--or lack thereof--to the Obama Administration.
Again--just as Bush trusted his advisors, so does Obama trust his.
No WMD?
Not Bush's fault.
State numbers inaccurate?
Not Obama's fault.


Majority of Americans were not happy with the disingenuous deceptiveness in DC and the Bush administration and us Americans should not have to put up with the Obama administration being disingenuously deceptive too.

I am not happy with the disingenuous deceptiveness by some of the posters on this board.
'Us' (sic) (We) Americans on this board should not have to put up with other posters who post lies and misinformation, and who are disingenuously deceptive in reporting poll results and other teabagger/birther/he's a Muslim claptrap.

Yet, here we are.
And here we will stay to confront those lies.
 hard starboard
Joined: 6/21/2008
Msg: 38
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History
Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/21/2009 4:20:20 PM
It’s no surprise the numbers change. During the campaign I heard promises of no tax increases on persons making under $250,000 a year. This number later dropped to $200,000 and then to $150,000 before again returning to $250,000. Of course this only applied to non-smokers. Then on the health care debate, the number of uninsured Americans was first claimed to be 47 million and then became 30 million (a whopping 1/3 less) the night of the ‘You Lie’ speech. Why would the number of jobs "saved or created" be any different?
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 39
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/21/2009 5:47:55 PM
This is what he promised and its still in the works,meaning not finished,yet your judging this as if its law,its still what he said though.His words " Increase capital gains and dividends taxes from 15 to 20 percent for those making more than $250,000 (couples) or $200,000 (single)"

The non smokers part,bull,show a link,show a final bill !

The uninsured part.That 46 million number — which to be exact, is actually 45.7 million — comes from the U.S. Census Bureau, which releases estimates of the uninsured yearly. That estimate is for 2007, and the data were released in 2008. (The 2008 data are scheduled for release on Sept. 10, 2009.)

"Saved or created",bet you have some opinion, not fact, on that also
 hard starboard
Joined: 6/21/2008
Msg: 40
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/21/2009 6:28:42 PM

The non smokers part,bull,show a link,show a final bill !

"Essentially all of this tax increase will be paid by families earning less than $250,000, and probably those earning substantially less than that."
http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/24296.html
There is also a video there where he specifically says "any form of tax increase" and "not any of your taxes".
Also see http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/01/cigarette.tax/index.html

If the Census Bureau says 45.7 million, I wonder where he got the 30 million number from?
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 41
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/21/2009 7:01:17 PM
could you possibly get anymore petty,he raised taxes on cigs and that breaks his promise,talk about all you can find is crumbs,give me a break !
 hard starboard
Joined: 6/21/2008
Msg: 42
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/21/2009 7:08:54 PM
Petty is the number of jobs the $787 billion stimulus bill has thus far "saved or created".
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 43
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/21/2009 7:20:56 PM

Petty is the number of jobs the $787 billion stimulus bill has thus far "saved or created".
Oh I'm sorry I didn't realize his plan was super short term and it ended,I could have sworn he told everyone up front this was a long term plan put into effect,as he said we can never have growth if the foundation is not laid.Somehow you interpreted that into all sectors turned around in the first year.Maybe you think jobs are the only thing Obama has on his plate,funny another right winger told us what a moron Obama was because the only important thing is the military right now.I am so glad he is working on all at the same time,rather than just what each one finds important,after all another one thought the only important thing we should be working on is health reform not happening !Look unemployment is at 10%,I say it would be at 19 to 20% had things continued as with Bush.I say it would have been worse if it was McCain/Palin
 BikerBiker53
Joined: 6/11/2005
Msg: 44
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/22/2009 11:23:36 AM
Wow,

You know I started thinking about how Obama could really improve our Economy, and create Jobs,...

Because,..I havent seen ONE,...NOT ONE,..."Job",...thats been "Created",..by anyone.

Or any "Improvement" made by the so called "Stimulas",....

I sure do see a lot of "LIES" that been created tho,......

Obamas Administration states that Unemployment is around 10%,..while others claim that its actually at about 22%.

Wow,....thats a BIG Difference. Another LIE,...huh.

Do "LIES" create Jobs ?

No,...didnt think so.

But yeah,....I came up with a Sure Fire Way Obama could make everyone HAPPY, and creat MILLIONS of JOB for the unemployed Americans.

ENFORCE the current Immigration Laws,....Hire every able bodied Man available to help round up and DEPORT all these ILLEGALS thats got OUR JOBS,...and send them packing !

That would create 12 to 30 MILLION JOBS FOR UNEMPLOYED AMERICANS,....

What a wonderfull way to help improve our Economy, ...Create Jobs, ...Lower Crime Rates, ...Improve our Quailty of Live, and the Quality of our Health,...all by simply enforcing the LAW !

Obama would truly indeed look like a "Saviour",..and at least he could actually do something good for the USA,..instead of just trying to give it away.
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 45
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/22/2009 11:57:33 AM

Because,..I havent seen ONE,...NOT ONE,..."Job",...thats been "Created",..by anyone.

Or any "Improvement" made by the so called "Stimulas",....
You might possibly try opening your eyes and ears then,How many facts must be shown for you to stop being out of the loop.
I came up with a Sure Fire Way Obama could make everyone HAPPY, and creat MILLIONS of JOB for the unemployed Americans.

ENFORCE the current Immigration Laws,....Hire every able bodied Man available to help round up and DEPORT all these ILLEGALS thats got OUR JOBS,...and send them packing !
Rogue vigilantism instead of cutting the red tape out of immigration,yes thats the type of jobs we need here,excellent,we can have 30 million armed Americans being vigilantes at our borders,North and South borders.Did you give Bush this idea ? because between the two of you,I not quite sure who would piss off more of the world.So your approach is image means nothing,grandma ,grab a gun ,we're heading for the border,I was worried how the Aryans would find an approved method to be more involved in radical racism,they can stand right by your side,one big happy bunch,problem solved,maybe you can solve our medical problem next !
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 46
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/22/2009 1:41:58 PM

Getting rid of all of the illegals surely wouldn't hurt our Medical system
no it wouldn't,I agree, but what was stated by your side was send 30 million American untrained deputies to the borders to capture illegals.Lets see pay them $45,000 a year,that figure includes health insurance and benefits,,that would only cost,14,850,000,000,000 to run,look now we won't need to spend money giving them health benefits.No I'll stick with Obamas plan !
The Stimulus Bill was supposed to Keep unemployment under 8%
The Stimulus Bill was supposed to Create or "Save" millions of Jobs
So he's off 2% a lot changed from the time he was proposing this plan.

I see millions of jobs saved,are you blind,Millions and millions would be unemployed had the banking industry gone bust and the major Car manufacturers gone out of business.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 47
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/22/2009 4:39:58 PM

I see millions of jobs saved,are you blind,Millions and millions would be unemployed had the banking industry gone bust and the major Car manufacturers gone out of business.


Only one problem. Neither of those were the stimulus bill. Those were separate bailouts that cost even more money. We're talking about jobs created or saved by the stimulus bill.
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 48
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/22/2009 5:16:59 PM
Oh I see, when the gripe is I thought Obama was to create jobs or save millions of jobs its not that Obama saves millions of jobs,it all depends on exactly what money it was that saved the jobs that were not even being recognized,now that they are being recognized.Now the stimulas bill was a multi year plan,thats well stated from the get go.

Obama stated
"It is true that we cannot depend on government alone to create jobs or long-term growth, but at this particular moment, only government can provide the short-term boost necessary to lift us from a recession this deep and severe. Only government can break the vicious cycles that are crippling our economy - where a lack of spending leads to lost jobs which leads to even less spending; where an inability to lend and borrow stops growth and leads to even less credit."

Obama's plans consist of programs for immediate relief and long term economic revitalization in six key areas:

Energy. Obama spoke about expanding America's production of alternative energy over the coming years, doubling its capacity by 2012. He also spoke about putting Americans to work retrofitting and weatherizing at least 75% of government buildings and 2 million homes to be more efficient. He also spoke about creating a dynamic and innovative alternative energy sector in America, saying, "we will put Americans to work in new jobs that pay well and can't be outsourced... and developing the new energy technologies that will lead to even more jobs, more savings, and a cleaner, safer planet in the bargain."

Infrastructure. Referring to his infrastructure plans as "not just another public works program," Obama did say that part of the infrastructure spending would go to rebuilding roads and bridges and executing worthy and well-planned public works projects. However, Obama's framed these infrastructure investments as primarily about retrofitting America to compete in a 21st century global economy. This included the construction of a unified national smart grid that "will save us money, protect our power sources from blackout or attack, and deliver clean, alternative forms of energy to every corner of our nation." In addition, the President-elect mentioned the need to expand broadband across America, to rural areas and small towns.

Innovation. Obama also spoke of the need to build a new innovation infrastructure, saying he would invest in R&D to promote economic growth and breakthroughs that will create broad-based prosperity. Hopefully, Obama will pursue a robust innovation policy seriously, as technology and science innovations, along with increasing productivity, can create entire new industries and sectors of the economy.

Healthcare. Obama confined his healthcare ideas to digitizing medical records. Not only will it reduce wasteful spending, he argued, but it will cut back on treatment errors, saving lives and creating a healthier America.

Education. Modernizing schools with new technologies and computers, along with new training for teachers, will play a role in the stimulus, ensuring the long term competitiveness of America's up and coming generations. Obama spoke about bringing 21st Century classrooms, labs and libraries to America's public schools, community colleges and public universities, "so that students in Chicago and Boston can compete with kids in Beijing for the high-tech, high-wage jobs of the future."

I'm not sure where anyone on the right got the impression this was mainly no more than laying the groundwork for growth to happen.I remember Obama clearly telling everyone from day one that all this is is a necessary jumpstart,without it it would be certain collapse ,and the start of laying the groundwork,he told of like a ten year plan on some things.I believe this is why this is no shock to me what so ever,because he's doing what he said .Many of you were complaining where is the change in the first month.Just for starters we are not now living like the Waltons now,he diverted the depression then got the economy to the point where although not close to fixed,experts can classify the recession as over,merely a technical mark with little actual comfort.Which basically means,we are only off life support but still in a hospital bed.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 49
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History
Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/22/2009 5:48:39 PM

Oh I see


Maybe you do, maybe you don't, but in the posts previous to the one where you made the above statement, you were making an apples to oranges comparison. The two areas were you claim jobs "saved or created" have nothing to do with the stimulus bill, no matter how you try to paint it, and those were extensions of the previous adminstrations doing. I didn't agree with them then and I don't agree with them now. See, I live in an area that is becoming completely destitute because GM did close it's plant here. A truck plant that employed basically the whole town that sprang around it over the years. So possibly overall the auto bailout did save some jobs, but obviously didn't here. But I guess all the 53 year old men working at Rally's, McDonald's, and Sonic are considered saved jobs by this administration. Sorry if I don't agree. I doubt they do either.

And the real truth will be weather the few "saved" jobs for the automakers last, now that the clunkers program is over. I've never gotten so many letters from dealers basically begging me to buy a new car in my life. Their lots are full of cars, but not buyers.
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 50
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History
Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/22/2009 6:27:44 PM
I am sorry about the troubles your town is in,my contracting went to 50% the last year of Bush and had been sliding down 2 years before that,and now with Obama its now almost a year later turning around and work has been picking up.

It was always stated the jobs were not in the sectors alot of people are in.If your not into alternative energies or roads or bridges,or infrastructure or other lucky sectors then your missing it like me,My work improves now because my customers are finding more spending money,they held their breath for a year and kept from spending,now I assume they feel better.I notice some small towns were so far off the edge the last so many years,its just they haven't fallen yet,and they probably will.

Like you said most your town was auto,thank goodness ,thats an area of interest,but the small towns where it supplies industries in a complete stall then those towns will probably fail.Its going to be another bad year,I'll hold my breath,it was warned that we had some really hard times ahead,that things could be grim for the first couple years,and they are.It hurts for us because we are the ones in reduced incomes,so many around me are now turning around and buying new cars and such,My towns one of the top 3 worst hit real estate markets ,Im part of the Phoenix,Las Vegas and Miami real estate problems ,we have been seeing growth now for about 4 or 5 months.Million dollar homes were going for 600,ooo a year and a half ago,now they are going for 675,000 to $700,000,thats fantastic news but not if your owing $850,000 on it,and those are my customers,All towns ,cities and states will be different and in different ways. Sorry Bud !
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 51
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History
Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/23/2009 6:31:33 AM
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2009/db2009077_697070.htm

I'm reading this business week article on this link,sure its July of this year ,but they are talking how each state has this long drawn out process to start of contract job.In the article it states ; Certainly, based on key numbers, it looks as if the five-month-old spending legislation has been slow to unfold. Onvia (ONVI), a Seattle company that tracks federal spending, estimates that some $65 billion of the $420 billion that was in the stimulus package for contract and infrastructure spending has gone out the door. Federal officials offer similar numbers, saying $60 billion of the $499 billion in total stimulus spending has been disbursed. (The remaining $288 billion consisted of tax cuts.)

I was under the assumption more of the money is in the works than maybe it is,but it might not be,here is what happened 3 weeks ago here in Phoenix Arizona where I live.Out comes a story in the paper that the highway stimulus projects are about to run out of time to spend the money,they are going to miss the deadline.This was the first our citizens heard of this.So its our Governor Republican Jan Brewer telling us its been an eye opener on how hard it is to get plans ,prices,contracts,all the permits,legal stuff to do these repairs,she explained the state always had a lot of time ,so no worries ,but found to speed it up was impossible,she said its a long drawn out process.So she is informing the state that they are hiring experts at like 15 million dollars to help then plan this faster, and make it happen better,and faster.Needless to say we were all shocked here just to find out nothing was happening yet and it was end of Oct. and that millions had to be spent just to tell us how we should properly spend the money for infrastructure.It was news to us,explained why no hiring had been going on in those sectors,maybe your towns are the same kind of state contracts stall,or crawl.

Anyone have some good facts on this,is your state the same ?
 BikerBiker53
Joined: 6/11/2005
Msg: 52
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/23/2009 10:05:05 AM
I'm always surprised when I hear anyone state that their "Shocked" to find out that our "System" is dragging their FEET,..and STALLING,....AND SPENDING MILLIONS,
and STILL,....haven't done anything yet.

Man,...That's,.... "BUSINESS AS USUAL"

Did anyone "HOPE", that when Obama took Office that everything would Magically "CHANGE", over night ?

I guess some people still believe in Fairy Tales, huh ?


Needless to say we were all shocked here just to find out nothing was happening yet and it was end of Oct. and that millions had to be spent just to tell us how we should properly spend the money for infrastructure.It was news to us,explained why no hiring had been going on in those sectors,maybe your towns are the same kind of state contracts stall,or crawl.


Its time to face the Cold Hard Facts,......that's just the way it is,..its the way its always been,...ands it looks like thats the way its always gonna be,..as long as people keep putting BLIND FAITH in a system, that has always failed us when it comes to what matters most.

Should Obama have Bailed out the AUTO INDUSTRY ????

NO!
,..Not when it COST us,..the Citizens of the USA that do NOT work for the Auto Industry,.....how is that helping us ?

It helped the Auto Workers somewhat,...but it did NOT fix the Problem,..and it certainly did not "Create" any Jobs.

Maybe if the Auto Industry would of been forced to re-organize,..and make changes in its leadership, and work force, them maybe we would see some CHANGE,...but not now,...their Jobs have been saved,..at our EXPENSE,...but it didn't give us a Job,..and it isn't going to change how the Auto Industry will continue to run their business.

The Auto Industry has been miss-managed for so long, it was time for a CHANGE,..from the TOP EXECUTIVES, to the Factory Worker.

First,...Why does the Auto Manufacturing Companies produce 15 MILLION Cars per year,..when it is a proven fact that they will only sell 12 MILLION Cars per Year ?

That's GROSS Negligence and Pure WASTE....Mismanagement.

Second,....why does the average Factory worker only WORK about 6 Months out of the year,..yet get Paid for working a FULL YEAR ?

The Unions power and abuse is staggering,....do you know how many people would KILL, to get such a cushy job ?

IF,..the Auto Industry would of been allowed to bottom out,..and everything went "Back To The Drawing Board",..they should of been allowed to file Bankruptcy, and Forced to show a NEW PLAN for operating their Factories, that would clearly show a PROFIT.

Imagine,.if the Top Executives would agree to a Cut in Pay,..the Factory Workers would agree to a Cut in pay,...and everyone would be held accountable for a better quality Automobile,..that gets Better Fuel Mileage,..and to NOT produce MORE CARS than they can sell,...and to NOT have such favorable Perks as they have now,....reduce the number of Sick days,..reduce the number of Unexcused Absences,..and create a better workplace where productivity is consistent, and the workers take PRIDE in the finished product,...and Thank full for their job,..instead of taking everything for granted.

That would be a CHANGE, that we could all be proud of,..and they could of done it on their own,..instead of at the Taxpayers Expense.

I stated that,..

I came up with a Sure Fire Way Obama could make everyone HAPPY, and create MILLIONS of JOB for the unemployed Americans.

ENFORCE the current Immigration Laws,....Hire every able bodied Man available to help round up and DEPORT all these ILLEGALS that's got OUR JOBS,...and send them packing !


To which I got an asinine reply,....

Rogue vigilantism instead of cutting the red tape out of immigration,yes that's the type of jobs we need here,excellent,we can have 30 million armed Americans being vigilantes at our borders,North and South borders.


I didn't say that,...that's your twisted thoughts as to how you can make me look bad, but yet it bounces back at you.

When it comes to immigration,..thats one area where we dont want to "Cut Out The Red Tape",....were overflowing with problems enough already the way it is,.....it should NOT be easier, for "Illegals" to get into our Country,....and it shouldnt be such a problem to get them DEPORTED back to where they come from,...with a STERN Warning, to NOT come back again, UNLESS, its through the Proper channels.

My suggestion was to "Hire every able bodied Man" to help round up and DEPORT the ILLEGALS that are here,..and taking JOBS that belong to people that are here Legally, by being an American Citizen.
"Hire every able bodied Man",.means just that,....people who are able to do that Job, Professionally and Legally,..by the book,...by the LAW,..that is supposed to be enforced.

Just imagine IF Obama would HIRE more ICE Agents,......
That would Create more Jobs.

Just imagine IF Obama would DEPORT ILLEGALS,..........
That would create more Jobs.

Say we enforce the LAWS on the Books,....and Deport Illegals,...and FINE every Employer that is found to Hire said Illegals......

Gee,...Imagine IF there wasn't any JOBS available for Illegals,..except for the ones that have been in existence for Decades,..and those are for DOCUMENTED WORKERS, that are here LEGALLY !

WOW,...that would create somewhere between 12 to 30 MILLION JOBS !

REAL JOBS,..for REAL AMERICAN CITIZENS.

Wouldn't that be wonderful ? Obama's approval rating would go through the roof !
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 53
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/23/2009 10:43:14 AM
I said we Arizonians were shocked that our state had not started the road work,Our Republican Governor Jan Brewer could have told us,I'm certain our past Democrat Governor would been out several times to explain the delays,that was Neopolitanos style,but nothing has been the same since Republican Jan Brewer took over,she is even trying to sell our main government building for budget cash ,then we pay rent.The ideas been laughed at yet thats not stopping them.Democrat Neopolitano would have never done anything so reckless.

During this time where the giant industries were ready to collapse as we're on the verge of depression,would have been poor timing to let it happen,the expenses of a collapsed bank and auto industry would have paled in comparison to what the "loan" is.The collapse would have been an expense not a loan,involving much more citizens competing for already short supply of jobs,flooded our welfare systems,thousands more houses in foreclosure,ect. the figures would have been unimaginable,the thought of not bailing is reckless,shortsighted,and extreme ignorance.

Immigration,sure now that you want to clarify, there is some difference but you left it extremely radical when you proposed such an asinine idea. I come from a border state,Arizona,we actually battle immigration here.When immigration was cracked down on,illegals lost there jobs,its been more than a year that way,so with no construction going on they went home,most of them.Your from Indianapolis Indiana ,how many illegals do you have.

Fact,About 40% of the U.S. illegal alien population are "documented aliens," who are commonly known as "visa overstayers." The visa overstayers hold non-immigrant visas such as the H-1B skilled foreign worker visa.

The battle here is what is the root of the problem,currently we spend multi millions of dollars fighting them and enforcing,when its shown the root of the problem is if the necessary paperwork was realistic and achievable in this country of immigrants,us.Most all immigrants favor doing it the legal way.Because they cannot get legal papers they sneak in and don't even use bank accounts,if they had papers they would have bank accounts and pay taxes like everyone else,But until we make the paperwork achievable they will sneak in,after all most only want to work,and most all would gladly pay taxes.So as with most things we do in this country like a war on drugs,ITS NOT WORKABLE,OR ACHIEVABLE,its ass backwards,
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 54
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/23/2009 10:46:08 AM

Holy crap batman! We can post links to sites and quote articles and you refuse to believe...you are part of the sheep herd...


And we can continue to be at each other's throats, I bet that those who represent us love it, as long as we are fighting among each other they can feel secure that nothing will change but the date and time, mean while tax dollars yours and mine and being used to provide incentives for companies that create jobs overseas, we do not need a congressional law to demonstrate to our governing body and to American companies that we not only want the outsourcing stopped but we want those jobs that have been sent overseas returned to America


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1224-07.htm


US Companies Moving More Jobs Overseas
by David Zielenziger

NEW YORK - U.S. corporations are picking up the pace in shifting well-paid technology jobs to India, China and other low-cost centers, but they are keeping quiet for fear of a backlash, industry professionals said.

The problem is that companies aren't sure if it's politically correct to talk about it. Nobody has come up with a way to spin it in a positive way.

Jack Trout
Morgan Stanley estimates the number of U.S. jobs outsourced to India will double to about 150,000 in the next three years. Analysts predict as many as two million U.S. white-collar jobs such as programmers, software engineers and applications designers will shift to low cost centers by 2014.

But the biggest companies looking to "offshoring" to cut costs, such as Microsoft Corp. , International Business Machines Corp. and AT&T Wireless, are reluctant to attract attention for political reasons, observers said this week.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 56
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/24/2009 3:45:25 PM

I agree. The jobs that are leaving will sink this economy even further. My question is how can we stop it? I have written my congressman and I even talked to Orrin Hatch last year at one of our ABATE political rallies. Unless we stop buying their goods, the Government taxes their butts off, I see no way to stop it.


We will see nothing from the government but more debate and game playing so we need to take the actions required to convince the business community that we will not tolerate american jobs being out sourced, how? WE pick a company that has been outsourcing our work and boycott their business, whether it's IBM, HP, GM or some other company does not matter. Personally I would like to see it be a company that is outsourcing tech work to India.

Unlike any generation before us we have the ability to organize using the internet as our rallying point, we can do it and if we don't nothing will stop the lost of jobs in the USA
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 57
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/24/2009 5:16:08 PM
I agree Earl,Boycott,its worked in other places,they outsource because its cheaper for them,well how do you think they feel after they are boycotted,all of a sudden cheaper just doesn't seem as good as 20% loss in their business,slaps um back in line.
 BikerBiker53
Joined: 6/11/2005
Msg: 58
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/24/2009 9:58:26 PM
OK,

I sense we are FINALLY getting around to the actual fact that were all beginning to see the Dire Straits this country is in,.....

I'm NOT laying this Blame on Obama,..he inherited this mess,...but the current outlook from his Policies don't appear to be working,..exactly the opposite....which this Country can not take much more of.


I said we Arizonians were shocked that our state had not started the road work,Our Republican Governor Jan Brewer could have told us,

that was Neopolitanos style,

Democrat Neopolitano would have never done anything so reckless.


I didn't know Neopolitano had any style,..and since when politicians been scared of being wreckless with Taxpayers MONEY ?

And all we have to do is look around, and we see that everything Is sluggish, and it seems that the Government/State, is always LATE in getting something done,..and most time someone "POCKETS" a large wad of CASH.

Where did all that MONEY go to, that was Sent to those Districts,
THAT DON'T EXIST ???

Case in Dirty Politics,..here in Indianapolis,.....our "NEW BICYCLE LANES",...our Daily Newspaper,.;.the "INDIANAPOLIS STAR",..reported that it was going to cost the City of Indianapolis 2 MILLION DOLLARS, to have these Bicycle Lanes Painted.

Me,.being the skeptic that I am,...knew a friend in the Company that got the Contract,
I did a little digging, and found out that the Company won the Contract for only $200,000 Dollars,.....What I want to know is,...wheres that other $1,800,000 ???
Thats Right,...$One Million,Eight Hundred Thousand Dollars,.....went somplace else,
msaybe in a nother fund,.....I cant find out yet.

Who's Pocket,..or Coffer did that money disappear into????

That's exactly why I'm a skeptic,..and don't Trust Politics, nor Politicians,..unless I can see the Good they do.


Your from Indianapolis Indiana ,how many illegals do you have.


I did a quick check,..but its late, and the Office is closed, where I can get the closest information,...but really,....who know how many are ILLEGALS ???

Indianapolis has a HUGE Hispanic Population,...how many of them are ILLEGAL, I havent a clue,..I could guess probably at least 40% or more, but then I could be wrong.

But I must say,..the "LEGALS" here in my neighborhood, are some of the greatest people you could ever meet,..if you have read any of my post about them, you will see my Praise.
Here's some facts I did find,...


Indianapolis police say checking the status of immigrants is outside their jurisdiction. Lt. Lloyd Crowe says officers have no way of knowing if someone is here illegally
http://www.wibc.com/News/Story.aspx?ID=50193

(Who's "Jurisdiction" does it fall under ,..if NOT Local Law Enforcement ?)

Last year, Fox news reported that 60 percent of the country's uninsured hospital patients are not U.S. citizens. The cable network also reported that half of those foreign nationals are here illegally


and here's more interesting reading at,..

Americans For Legal Immigration
"LEGAL IMMIGRATION IS DIVERSITY-ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS INSANITY"
Post Office Box 33837, Indianapolis IN 46203 0837
http://noillegals.com/

Welcome to the struggle! I can't afford anymore of the "PETERSON PLAN" a magnet that brings ILLEGALS to Indianapolis from Mexico and across the country and then he has the nerve to cut spending by closing swimming pools that our Kids use. He can't even paint the lines on our streets but he can bring more Criminal Aliens and Gangs to Indianapolis while he cuts our Police and Criminal Justices Money. His Lies have been too much for me! They WILL consolidate IPD/MCSD just wait and see. Do we move and let him have his plan to destroy our Hometown? Or do we let him give it to the Mexican Consul FREE of charge as he's doing now?


"Peterson" used to be our Mayor",....and ,..."Used to be our Prosecutor",...
now he's the new Mayors Errand Boy,...

At our new Mayors FIRST Neighborhood Meeting at Public School #54,..the New Mayor "Greg Ballard" wouldn't take direct questions,.the questions were written on a paper, and fielded by his staff,...

One question was the concern of "ILLEGALS",..to which Mayor Ballard replied that he had just returned from the MAYORAL SUMMIT,...and it was the General Consensus among the Nations Mayors that these ILLEGALS were contributing to our Society,..and the States felt like their HANDS WERE TIED,...and until the issue was pressed at the Federal Level, most Mayors would not touch it.

???????

Man, this is THE MAYOR of our City,..and he refuses to address the ILLEGAL Issue unless its forced upon him by the Feds.

Gee,...States like OKLAHOMA said to He!! with that, and they started enforcing the Laws on their books,..and are having tremendous results in getting rid of Illegals, and creating Jobs !,...More States are starting to follow their Example.


Fact,About 40% of the U.S. illegal alien population are "documented aliens," who are commonly known as "visa overstayers."


Thats how they "become" illegals,.....heck,..I gotta admit,...I wouldnt want to go back to a slum, if thats what I was faced with,.,.either....but the Law is the Law.

You go to MEXICO,...as an Illegal,..and break their LAW,...
YOU will find yourself In DEEP DOO DOO.


And we can continue to be at each other's throats, I bet that those who represent us love it, as long as we are fighting among each other they can feel secure that nothing will change but the date and time, mean while tax dollars yours and mine and being used to provide incentives for companies that create jobs overseas,
**********************************
I agree. The jobs that are leaving will sink this economy even further.
**********************************
We will see nothing from the government but more debate and game playing so we need to take the actions required to convince the business community that we will not tolerate american jobs being out sourced,

**********************************

I actually feel like were all starting to get on the same page,..I think we can see that the situation looks gloom, due to the "Actions/Inactions" that our President has, and has NOT took.

Its isnt Rocket Sicence,..he is the Leader, and Spokesman for our Country,..Sworn an Oath, to uphold the Office, and such,..looking out for THE AMERICIAN PEOPLES BEST INTEREST,.....instead of traveling around the world appoligizing for "AMERICAS ARROGANT BEHAVIOUR'',....which is diffently NOT in our best interest,......but lets stick to the point.

And the "POINT" is,...all about JOBS !

What does JOBS have to do with our Country,..our NATION ?

Jobs,....restore the ECONOMY,...Lower Inflation, reduces Debt, reduces the number of Unemployed,... puts Food on the Table, and Gas in our Autos to get us back and forth to these JOBS.

Obama Promised to Create "JOBS",...right ?

Then why is "Unemployment" even higher now ??

And Why,..are Anylist saying that the Obama Administration is even LYING about the Unemployment Rate,...stating that it aorund 10%,..when its actually at 22% ???

Fellas,...I got No Beef with any of you,......

If I make a mistake, and mis quote something, please forgive me, and show me the error of my ways,....but lests top this quibbling amounst ourselfes, and bond together for the common good.

As stated,...look at us,.....arguing back and forth with each other about somthing that isnt mine or your fault,...yet it is distracting us from the real issue at hand.

Yes,...We may or not like Obama,..yes some voted for him, and others did not,...
we all have our reasons why,..but that dosent change the fact that there is NOT enough being done to help this Nation get back on its feet.

I've said that the "Heath Care Bill",... could of,..and should of came later,......
Our Economy should of come FIRST,....Create Jobs, and STOP sending OUR Jobs overseas,....then Bring the TROOPS Home,....

After being successfull in these areas,...Obama could of directed his attention towards a Health Care Bill that wouldnt of been rushed,..it could of been well thought out,..everyone could have a chance to discuss the Bill,..and shaped and formed it into a Package that we could all be PROUD of,.....instead of half of us not liking it, and the other half just wanting to push the d*mn thing through, so Obama would have a Feather in his Cap.


I agree Earl,Boycott,its worked in other places,they outsource because its cheaper for them,well how do you think they feel after they are boycotted,all of a sudden cheaper just doesn't seem as good as 20% loss in their business,slaps um back in line.


Boycott,......Picket,.....DEMAND they keep those Jobs here,....or demand a FINE, on every Company that sends Job over seas..

Lets start looking at b0th Import and Expoprt Fees,,,,and use them to our advantage.

Make it so costly to outsource Jobs over seas,..that it will STOP it, turn it around, and Keep those Jobs here whewre they belong.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 59
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 11/25/2009 4:23:08 AM

Boycott,......Picket,.....DEMAND they keep those Jobs here,....or demand a FINE, on every Company that sends Job over seas..

Lets start looking at b0th Import and Expoprt Fees,,,,and use them to our advantage.

Make it so costly to outsource Jobs over seas,..that it will STOP it, turn it around, and Keep those Jobs here whewre they belong.


You can forget import/export fees and fines, I know for sure the republican party will not support protectionism and seriously doubt the democrats will. If we are going to discourage companies from out sourcing their work then WE are going to have to do it, the best way is to boycott, picking one target company to make an example of, one that will not have a major impact on the american consumer, a product or service they can do without and that they can obtain from a company employing mostly american workers
 NJTalker
Joined: 11/19/2009
Msg: 60
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Obama Administration lies about jobs created or saved.
Posted: 12/11/2009 2:33:33 AM
You people are the best! How quick you blame foreigners, minoroties or muslims. Well I have 1 thing to tell you, you are the government!
Yes, you everyone of youm so as long as you dont attend tour city council meetings or your respective political party rallies! Continue to watch television andget your news from broadcasters that have an agend in reporting. Point the finger because 3 points right back at you!
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