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 robertaus
Joined: 1/26/2010
Msg: 94
Would you have a relationship outside your race?Page 4 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

There is no 'contradiction'. I was pointing out that the question is invalid since no discrete 'races' of homo sapiens have been shown to even exist. It is therefore, and one would have thought obviously, not possible to speculate on 'having a relationship' with a non-existent entity.
.
One would ask then why would you bother commenting on a topic that you consider invalid.


Though it was raised as a side issue, there is a connection. That some people don't see the connection doesn't mean it isn't there.
The same movement, mixing, migrations, and evolutionary forces that produced families of inter-related languages have produced the graduated genetic blend that is homo sapiens.
Languages may be distinguished, one from another, by various means and despite the common heritage and despite that there's often some blending at the intersections there are classifiable differences. But language evolution is driven by forces unlike that applying to human evolution and linguistic classification schemes use different criteria to those used by biological taxonomy.


Now what I have gleaned out of this is that race is defined by language.Now I am confused.Might Google Wikipedia to give me the answers.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 95
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Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/22/2012 12:41:18 AM

One would ask then why would you bother commenting on a topic that you consider invalid


That is like asking why an athiest would bother commenting on a thread titled "Would you choose to have a relationship with a different god". Of course they would say they don't think gods exist.


Now what I have gleaned out of this is that race is defined by language.Now I am confused.Might Google Wikipedia to give me the answers.


 GuessWhat1964
Joined: 4/15/2012
Msg: 96
Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/22/2012 3:23:50 AM
It is a total relief that there is no such thing as race. Makes me wonder why the State governments and the Commonwealth government chose to place in various legislation that employers cannot discriminate on 'race' when hiring. For example....Anti-Discrimination Legislation.

Also, if I bash the crap out of a white person, I can be charged with assault. Don't want to do the same thing to an aboriginal or any black or yellow man, regardless of what lingo he speaks, as that is now a race hate crime, and carries an extra sentence. Sacred cow syndrome I know...but based on race. If a non-white thug does the same to a white man, no extra sentence is applied, as that is not a race hate crime. Open season on white people. Once again..race related.

So why don't you boys phone the government and ask them to change all that legislation, as it is racially based...and as you know, there is no such thing as race.

Roll on the floor laughing.
 lyingcheat
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 97
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Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/22/2012 9:05:30 AM

I guessed by your big words ...



....ginger will come on soon and explain it to you using smaller words.



Some in here are more gifted than Charles Darwin ever was...you can tell by the big words they use.

If you can't manage, like comprehension is an issue for you, try using a dictionary?
http://dictionary.reference.com/


It is a total relief that there is no such thing as race. Makes me wonder why the State governments and the Commonwealth government chose to place in various legislation that employers cannot discriminate on 'race' when hiring. For example....Anti-Discrimination Legislation.

Also, if I bash the crap out of a white person, I can be charged with assault. Don't want to do the same thing to an aboriginal or any black or yellow man, regardless of what lingo he speaks, as that is now a race hate crime, and carries an extra sentence. Sacred cow syndrome I know...but based on race. If a non-white thug does the same to a white man, no extra sentence is applied, as that is not a race hate crime. Open season on white people. Once again..race related.

So why don't you boys phone the government and ask them to change all that legislation, as it is racially based...and as you know, there is no such thing as race.

Roll on the floor laughing.

You're kidding right? Though, considering the rationality of your previous posts, I suppose you might genuinely think biological taxonomy and the genetic definitions of 'homo sapiens' is actually prescribed by the language used on government forms.
Do you know what science is?
 GuessWhat1964
Joined: 4/15/2012
Msg: 98
Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/23/2012 1:02:55 AM

Do you know what science is?


No I don't ...but hang on, I'll look it up on wikipedia.

...unless you want to explain it to me. Please use only small words. I can't find my dictionary.
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 99
Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/23/2012 1:42:48 PM
So biologically there is no such thing as race, but it does remain a popular social concept. Of course a popular belief that there are genetically defined races doesn't make it any more true than would a popular belief in the Loch Ness monster. Just because an idea is tenacious, doesn't mean it is worthy, and all that.

Legislation…bless its cotton socks but it particularly struggles to keep pace with technology, and science, generally, can sometimes fly right over its head. However it's created not to provide us with scientific definitions, but with an intent to achieve fairness in context of human interactions... to re-balance imbalances, to protect, to prevent mischief and harm, to make society a more pleasant place to live, etc. Therefore it is meant to be not so complex that it causes further confusion out there in the real world...for the public. So really, within any Act intended to acknowledge and protect the basic rights of all individuals without exclusion (particularly exclusions that are based on social concepts), to see use of a commonly used term like 'race' is really not that surprising. The particular social wrongs the legislation attempts to address are heavily hinged on social beliefs that races do exist. So that's the social problem the legislators had to take by the horns. However the word 'race' is used not on its own, but along with further terminology, which is an attempt to clarify the scope of its meaning in context of the law... perhaps because the legislators were fully aware that the concept is a social one rather than a scientifically defined one. The Qld Anti-Discrimination Act offers this definition...not to establish scientific fact, just to assist with achieving understanding in light of the intent of the legislation...

“race includes—
(a) colour; and
(b) descent or ancestry; and
(c) ethnicity or ethnic origin; and
(d) nationality or national origin.”

In legislation, scientific or technical words are given their scientific or technical meaning. So if race had a scientifically recognised meaning, they wouldn't have needed to provide a legislative definition in the schedule.


People with uni degrees, who are doctors, lawyers and accountants etc....don't need big words to impress people.

Rubbish. They do it all the time. Mostly they aren’t even aware that someone else might consider the words they are using to be ‘big words’, because they’re so comfortable with communicating at that level. But if they are talking to someone who clearly can’t keep up, sure, they might dumb it down. If you’ve never heard people with ‘uni degrees’ comfortably using ‘big words’, perhaps therein lies the reason?


There done, I don't need to post 10 times to express myself.
Good for you. The posts by LC, Ginger and Caves are interesting to read though. I am glad that the entire sum of their thoughts don’t easily fit into two lines. But of course all that thinking they are doing must impede on their available time, which they could (apparently) otherwise spend going around heckling and telling other people not to think so much.
 robertaus
Joined: 1/26/2010
Msg: 100
Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/23/2012 6:15:45 PM

race2    /reɪs/ Show Spelled[reys] Show IPA
noun
1. a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
2. a population so related.
3. Anthropology .
a. any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics: no longer in technical use.
b. an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especially formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
c. a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.
4. a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic stock: the Slavic race.
5. any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
^^^^^^Yep straight from http://dictionary.reference.com
 GuessWhat1964
Joined: 4/15/2012
Msg: 101
Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/24/2012 1:15:53 AM
Robertaus wrote:


^^^^^^Yep straight from http://dictionary.reference.com


You shouldn't have done that. As most of the words are small, these geniouses won't be able to understand them. As Namaah pointed out, using big words is a sign of big intelligence. So now us little people who can't find a dictionary or don't have access to wikipedia won't be able to compete with these brain surgeons.
 lyingcheat
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 102
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Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/24/2012 4:09:51 AM

^^^^^^Yep straight from http://dictionary.reference.com

If I was arguing there is no such word as 'race' your dictionary citation would have really put me in my place I guess.
But since I'm not arguing that... citing a dictionary makes no sense.

Unless you think, as far fetched as it seems, that because a word appears in the dictionary it's proof the thing itself exists? Because if that's the case here's 'proof' that gods exist -


God. noun
1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
2. the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam.
3. (lowercase) one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.

And gnomes...

gnome. noun
1. (in folklore) one of a species of diminutive beings, usually described as shriveled little old men, that inhabit the interior of the earth and act as guardians of its treasures;

And levitation.

levitate. verb (used without object)
1. to rise or float in the air, especially as a result of a supernatural power that overcomes gravity.

All from - http://dictionary.reference.com

To address, and understand, the concepts, not just the words - you need to look a bit deeper than a dictionary.
Shall I start you off?


Conceptualizing Human Variation

What is the relationship between the patterns of biological and sociocultural variation in extant humans? Is this relationship accurately described, or best explained, by the term 'race' and the schema of 'racial' classification? What is the relationship between 'race', genetics and the demographic groups of society? Can extant humans be categorized into units that can scientifically be called 'races'?

We argue that the correct use of the term 'race' is the most current taxonomic one, because it has been formalized. 'Race' gains its force from its natural science root. The term denotes 'natural' distinctions and connotes differences not susceptible to change. One is led to ask, therefore, whether everything that is called a 'racial' difference is actually natural. 'Racial' differences carry a different weight than cultural differences. In terms of taxonomic precision and best practice, is it scientifically correct to identify European Americans, Asians and Pacific Islanders, Han Chinese, Hispanics and African Americans of Middle Passage descent as different races? Although individuals may refer to themselves as belonging to a particular 'race', it is doubtful that this has been done with knowledge of, or concern for, zoological taxonomy, because the common use of the term has come from sociopolitical discourse. Individuals learned the 'race' to which they were assigned.

'Race' is 'socially constructed' when the word is incorrectly used as the covering term for social or demographic groups. Broadly designated groups, such as 'Hispanic' or 'European American' do not meet the classical or phylogenetic criteria for subspecies or the criterion for a breeding population. Furthermore, some of the 'racial' taxa of earlier European science used by law and politics were converted into social identities. For example, the self-defined identities of enslaved Africans were replaced with the singular 'Negro' or 'black', and Europeans became 'Caucasian', thus creating identities based on physical traits rather than on history and cultural tradition. Another example of social construction is seen in the laws of various countries that assigned 'race' (actually social group or position) based on the proportion of particular ancestries held by an individual. The entities resulting from these political machinations have nothing to do with the substructuring of the species by evolutionary mechanisms.

Modern human genetic variation does not structure into phylogenetic subspecies (geographical 'races'), nor do the taxa from the most common racial classifications of classical anthropology qualify as 'races'. The social or ethnoancestral groups of the US and Latin America are not 'races', and it has not been demonstrated that any human breeding population is sufficiently divergent to be taxonomically recognized by the standards of modern molecular systematics. These observations are not to be taken as statements against doing research on demographic groups or populations. They only support a brief for linguistic precision and careful descriptions of groups under study. Terms and labels have qualitative implications.

S.O.Y Keita, R.A Kittles, C.D.M Royal, et.al.
National Human Genome Center, College of Medicine, Howard University, Washington, DC 20060, USA.
Department of Anthropology, Smithsonian Institution, Washington, DC, USA.
Department of Molecular Virology, Immunology, and Medical Genetics, The Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio

http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v36/n11s/full/ng1455.html
Nature Genetics 36, S17 - S20
 GuessWhat1964
Joined: 4/15/2012
Msg: 103
Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/26/2012 3:12:16 AM

How is it that untruths become legend instead of mythology?


You know what, for some reason I really like you. You seem genuine and sweet. But back on topic...

The State and Commonwealth governments employ companies on a tender basis...that is to say who ever provides the best bid for a job will receive it. This also applies to painting housing commission houses. This is a major issue when it comes to Aborignal housing. Strange as it sounds, as there are no races except for the human race, that this group of people have their own unique representation when it comes to contracts and housing.

But anyhow, I met a painter who's job it was to work in government contracts. His company got the housing commission project. His work partner spray painted not only the house inside and out, but he also spray painted the window panes, the door handles and everything else.

When asked why he did such a rough job, he replied, "In a couple of weeks time, there will be no windows, no doors yet alone door handles, and there will be a hole in the living room floor where they used the wood from the door to cook bush food that they caught."

After a few weeks, he realized that this was the truth. This is how this particular "race" of people chose to live. Cave men.

I know that you don't want to hear this, but you really need to pull your head out of the Politically Correct sand and view reality. Just because something makes you feel uncomfortable, and because you don't want to believe it, doesn't mean it's not true.
 lyingcheat
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 104
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Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/26/2012 4:39:56 AM

...but you really need to pull your head out of the Politically Correct sand and view reality. Just because something makes you feel uncomfortable, and because you don't want to believe it, doesn't mean it's not true.

You need to pull your head out of wherever you have it, and realise your personal anecdotes say more about you than about the topic.
 GuessWhat1964
Joined: 4/15/2012
Msg: 105
Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/26/2012 4:43:25 AM
^^^^

lol...did I hit a nerve ?

Childish response. But at least no really Really REALLY big words... lol

Is Wiki offline tonight..

lol
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 106
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Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/26/2012 4:45:45 AM
^^^ maybe we need to change the thread to "Would you have a relationship outside your vocabulary?"
 lyingcheat
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 107
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Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/26/2012 4:55:05 AM

lol...did I hit a nerve ?

Childish response.

No. It was an accurate response. Personal anecdotes about alleged events someone allegedly once told you about the alleged reasons someone else allegedly did a rough painting job are obviously completely meaningless in terms of whether biological valid sub-species, or 'races' of homo sapiens exist.

To think such 'stories' have any meaning does say more about you than it does about the topic of 'race'.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 108
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Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/26/2012 6:08:50 AM
Does that make me an educational snob? Or something else?


This is actually pertinent to the topic. Where ends realism and begins prejudice? This is my take on it:

Belief that people who are different to you are beneath you or sub-human or cave people, is being prejudiced.

Belief that people who are different to you are equally worthy as you are, but at the same time acting on personal preferences when selecting potential mates, is being realistic.

Within the scope of being realistic, we can scrutinize our personal preferences, ask if they are based on evidence and reason, or not, and change them over time if we are so inclined.
 foxboroughhottubs
Joined: 7/15/2010
Msg: 109
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Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/27/2012 12:24:04 AM

I never thought of him as being beneath me,


(Be good Foxy , be very good......so much comes to mind , and every one of them will only dig you a hole ... beeee gooood! )

I am really not getting what all the posturing and chest thumping regarding ones vocabulary ( or lack thereof) is all about
Some of the most intelligent people I have met have been illiterate and self made, some of the dumbest have a private education .....

The mark of a person is simply who they are , not who they try and be , whether it is on the interweb or in real life .


I think everybody has a forte , and we all have weaknesses , to attempt to usurp someone on the internet based on whether they have a grasp on big words or not isnt really a productive exercise .

I love the in depth discussions that can take place here ... just as much as I love the offhand one-liners :)

Debate is healthy , debasement is not :P

( I am not very smart , but I can lift heavy things ..........:) )
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 110
Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/27/2012 12:31:36 AM
Fox......you are also very awesome and a complete gentleman! You just said what I have been thinking for days, but was scared to say cos from me it would have sounded more like "WTF is wrong with you geniuses"! I was just putting it down to male PMT actually lol
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 111
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Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/27/2012 1:19:16 AM

Debate is healthy , debasement is not :P


I agree, it's dark and cold down there. But on the upside, there could be wine.
 kmac6
Joined: 1/20/2008
Msg: 112
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Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/27/2012 2:16:30 AM
Or heaven forbid ... whine ...
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 113
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Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/27/2012 5:47:27 AM
^^^^ Argh! Its a mod! Quick, someone talk about interracial relationships...

And from the above arguments you can see why in paleoanthropology, the 'out-of-Africa' theory is still the most widely accepted model describing the origin and early dispersal of anatomically modern humans.

Oh, hang on I don't think a mod would be talking about superior aliens races. Phew.


I sometimes imagine what a superior alien race would make of us


Well, according to Hollywood... either slaves or mince meat.
 GuessWhat1964
Joined: 4/15/2012
Msg: 114
Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/28/2012 11:33:21 PM
Namaah said:

Rubbish. They do it all the time. Mostly they aren’t even aware that someone else might consider the words they are using to be ‘big words’, because they’re so comfortable with communicating at that level. But if they are talking to someone who clearly can’t keep up, sure, they might dumb it down. If you’ve never heard people with ‘uni degrees’ comfortably using ‘big words’, perhaps therein lies the reason?


"Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious"

Beat that one Mary Poppins.

(So what does the big word prove? That I'm a brain surgeon or that I can use wiki ? Think about it. )
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 115
Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/28/2012 11:53:17 PM

So what does the big word prove?

That you are sad and gay and watch Movies like Mary Poppins is my guess. :-)
 GuessWhat1964
Joined: 4/15/2012
Msg: 116
Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/29/2012 1:32:27 AM
^^^^

How can you be sad and gay at the same time?

Nice pic by the way....washed out and not showing what you look like.

People who have nothing to hide....hide nothing.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 117
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Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/29/2012 1:51:49 AM

People who have nothing to hide....hide nothing.


I don't get it... what do nudist beach slogans have to do with washed out photos... or interracial relationships?
 GuessWhat1964
Joined: 4/15/2012
Msg: 118
Would you have a relationship outside your race?
Posted: 7/29/2012 1:55:07 AM
^^^^

Ginger...less bookworm stuff for you and more walking through a nudist beach.
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