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 carterscutie85
Joined: 5/31/2007
Msg: 37
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?Page 2 of 150    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)
So what would be the reprocussions for the dad's who refused to show up and do the DNA test? The same as when they don't show up to CSEA for the test? If so, we'd have a hell of a lot more people in jails then we already do. Don't put the murderer in prison, we gotta save room for the person who didn't show for the DNA test.
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 38
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History
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 3:56:33 PM
Capitano,they oppose.oppose,oppose because it reduces their power,power,power....her majesty's crown has a thorn.
 ValkyrieHJR
Joined: 8/8/2009
Msg: 39
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 4:44:29 PM

Have to think that there are lots and lots of dads bring up kids that are not there kids. Have to be lots paying child support for kids that are not there children as well. Yes, DNA testing should be mandatory.


I did not say you specifically said that. It just seems to me, based on this and a lot of other things you have posted in past threads, that you seem to think that women can't be faithful, in general, and that more than just a few are letting their husbands raise children that are not theirs.

Now don't get me wrong. I am not naive enough to think that women don't cheat or even that the majority of women don't cheat. I am ex navy and I used to watch as wives would send their men out to see and then hit the clubs that night to party and pick out there dupe for that cruise. That was how it was. There were some that were faithful, but they were few and far between. And I can't tell you how many f my friends would come home from their cruise only to find their wife pregnant and trying to play it off that it was his. I know it happens.

And I will accept that if it is mandatory then it will just be a normal thing and everyone goes through it.

But I will never agree that the government has any business doing that. If it does become mandatory, then the government would be involved. And I don't think it's any of their business whether a married couple is faithful or not.

I am not defending cheaters. I never cheated on my husband. (And I had plenty of opportunities and lots of "friends" telling me I should take advantage of them because of my situation at home) I am just against government being that involved in our personal lives, period. Anything that the government does similar to that (nothing is coming to mind as an example, but if you think of one I will be glad to tell you where I stand on it) I would be against. I don't have a problem with having a government, or following the laws the put in place, but at some point we have to separate ourselves from the government. They cannot and should not control every aspect of our lives.

With all of that being said, I am definitely for it in situations where the parentage is questionable. But I totally do not think it should be mandatory.

That is just my opinion. All of you are welcome to your own opinions, whether you agree or disagree. I am not going to force you to try to change your minds, and I do expect the same courtesy.
 Chitownguy40
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 40
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 4:46:41 PM

conservative estimates put the percentage of "uncertain" paternity (I prefer paternity fraud) between 4-10% of kids born each year in North America. That's about 200,000/year....


200,ooo is a lot of kids in an absolute sense, but 4-10% is a small percentage of live births. I just don't understand why it would be necessary to require a DNA test for all kids when there is only a paternity dispute in a small percentage of cases. As is it, people who have doubts have ways of getting the tests done.
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 42
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 5:55:25 PM
200,ooo is a lot of kids in an absolute sense, but 4-10% is a small percentage of live births. I just don't understand why it would be necessary to require a DNA test for all kids when there is only a paternity dispute in a small percentage of cases. As is it, people who have doubts have ways of getting the tests done.


So, you see a MILLION + kids in the past 5 years and a MILLION more each half a decade a reasonable 'error' margin?

Okey, dokey.

And, of course it would be ok to have a couple of million men thinking that the kid they've been raising or paying for is theirs when the kid is NOT?

Hmmmm...

Well, ok. SOMEONE is benefitting from this sort of fraud, which is excellent, I'm sure.

Odd how paternity fraud is the only form of fraud that is not only acceptable, but unpunishable by law, making it perfectly legal.

Cool.



EDIT to Add to the post following:

But, this thread is not discussing deadbeats, male or female.

And, well, somehow I don't see several million cases of questionable paternity a knee-jerk...

... I think it's more of a "what-an-unconscionable-crime" kind of reaction. But, if you're fine with it, good for you.

And, yes, you are correct that a guy who has suspicions that his wife or girlfriend has been banging someone else besides him, has a legal recourse, though in many jurisdictions, he only has at most 1 year to make a paternity determination. He may not even be informed within that time in some cases.

Have you ever noticed that women can be pretty good at not disclosing all the truth and nothing but the truth in all situations?

Nah... must only be me....

Mandatory DNA testing would just keep everyone honest. I really don't see why anyone would have a problem with it except those who love to live in denial or those who are afraid their nefarious activities will be found out.


Cheers.

To aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam:


Honestly see taking DNA as the begining of Big Brother. They hold on to it and next thing you know employers find out you have a chance in a zillion of getting cancer and so it would cost x more for insurance...nah...DNA testing should be an exception, never a rule.


Christ.... all employers have to do these days is check out Facebook if they want to find the dirt on an existing or prospective employee...

VERY little is private anymore and there will be less and less as years go by.

And, why would the government have to have the DNA results at all? Couldn't results be held by your personal physician? By YOU?


Let us go back to love and trust, how wonderful would that be? Yeah, I dream. Believe me, I know reality.


Come on! Share those happy, reality altering drugs you're doing!

Or.... are you just tuning in from some world other than this one?
 Chitownguy40
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 43
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 5:59:55 PM

So, you see a MILLION + kids in the past 5 years and a MILLION more each half a decade a reasonable 'error' margin?

Okey, dokey.

And, of course it would be ok to have a couple of million men thinking that the kid they've been raising or paying for is theirs when the kid is NOT?

Hmmmm...

Well, ok. SOMEONE is benefitting from this sort of fraud, which is excellent, I'm sure.

Odd how paternity fraud is the only form of fraud that is not only acceptable, but unpunishable by law, making it perfectly legal.

Cool.


Cripes, why the knee-jerk hostility?

Of course paternity fraud is a bad thing. But in cases where a man knows (or suspects) he is being falsely named as a father, he has legal recourse. He can go to court, submit paternity test results, and prove his case. What is the problem?

And by the way, men skipping out on child support they actually owe is a far, far more widespread problem than paternity fraud.
 Notdesper8atall
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 44
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 6:17:04 PM
"conservative estimates put the percentage of "uncertain" paternity (I prefer paternity fraud) between 4-10% of kids born each year in North America. That's about 200,000/year....


200,ooo is a lot of kids in an absolute sense, but 4-10% is a small percentage of live births. I just don't understand why it would be necessary to require a DNA test for all kids when there is only a paternity dispute in a small percentage of cases. As is it, people who have doubts have ways of getting the tests done. "

I believe you might change your mind if you fell into that 4- 10 % , then perhaps you wouldnt be so quick to shrug it off as a minute percentage. The number always seems small until you fall into it. And wouldnt we all be beter off if the number of fruad cases dropped to zero?
 Notdesper8atall
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 46
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 6:27:21 PM
Seriously do you honestly believe that Big brother wants everyones DNA? What would be the point..?? Genetically engineer you to be a super soldier.. I am sorry but that is just consperacy theory run amuk. As for the arguement with employers .. not gonna fly either .. medical records are not something they can easily get without serious legal reprocussions.

In an ideal world love and trust would be great but as you well know we live in a far from perfect world. So the testing.. while not a perfect world situation would give it a nudge in that direction because if you lie you will be found out.
 Chitownguy40
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 47
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 6:36:46 PM

I believe you might change your mind if you fell into that 4- 10 % , then perhaps you wouldnt be so quick to shrug it off as a minute percentage. The number always seems small until you fall into it. And wouldnt we all be beter off if the number of fruad cases dropped to zero?


If I fell into the 4-10%, I would want to get a DNA test to resolve my particular case. But I don't see how forcing everyone else to get a DNA test would resolve my problem. Do you see what I'm saying? Someone I think I'm not being clear.
 Notdesper8atall
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 48
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 6:54:32 PM
I do believe your missing MY point. You may not know that you are in that 4 - 10 %until a much later date than current statues of limitation allow. If everyone had to do it the percentage drops to zero..and the statue becomes a non issue. I fail to see why folks resist stoping this problem before it becomes one. This manditory test would do exactly that.
 WesternWildRose
Joined: 9/15/2008
Msg: 49
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History
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 6:56:26 PM
You are aware that using Wiki as a source is laughable in most cases don't you?.... I use it all the time..but really now... where the hell do you guys pull these stats out from?

are you some sort of economist or an accountant... I mean... how do you figure that it will cost near '$0.00'?

as for the blood tests and other tests on newborns... care to share with me what these routine tests are please?... cos....besides testing for the limberness of their hips and physical bending and slapping on the behind... checking for jaundice... what else are the mad scientist doing to our babies?



When it becomes mandatory, the cost will drop to next to $0.00. They already do blood tests and other tests on newborns.

And, conservative estimates put the percentage of "uncertain" paternity (I prefer paternity fraud) between 4-10% of kids born each year in North America. That's about 200,000/year....



 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 51
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 7:16:40 PM
You are aware that using Wiki as a source is laughable in most cases don't you?.... I use it all the time..but really now... where the hell do you guys pull these stats out from?


Yes, I AM aware that Wikipedia is not a credible source which is why I apologized for using it.

Another laughable tidbit is that so many women refuse or are incapable of doing any research into things that are brought up by men here.

As I mentioned before, I always find it a hoot how so many women and their ass-kissing male supporters manage to be so creative with their deflection and denial....


as for the blood tests and other tests on newborns... care to share with me what these routine tests are please?...


To be honest, I don't remember what it was they tested for when my boys were brand, spanking new, but I'm pretty sure they took a blood sample.

Maybe I hallucinated it, which is entirely possible.

And, here, after a 2 minute search on Google, I found a couple of articles, not that you'll take the time to read them or anything, let alone do a search all by yourself...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2483751/Mothers-wrongly-identifying-fathers-in-Child-Support-Agency-claims.html

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/phil/blphil_ethbio_patfraud.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/magazine/22Paternity-t.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1

 Chitownguy40
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 52
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 7:20:44 PM

Somehow you're thinking you would know or not know if the kid(s) yours or not....
While that may be a possibility(unlikely) for you... for others, it might not be....
The idea of mandatory DNA testing is to protect the kids and the fathers from false paternity...


I am not thinking that at all. Of course I wouldn't "know" in a literal sense. No one knows unless they have a test. But unless the man has some reason to be suspicious, why bother? I mean, I don't have positive proof that the 74 year old man who says he's my father really is, but why would I doubt it? I mean, unless I had some specific reason to.
 Chitownguy40
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 54
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 7:32:13 PM

i think it should be mandatory.... its just another test on top of many others...i have 3 kids i am 100% sure they are mine, but i still belive the test should be mandatory.. i mean women definetly know the child is hers , it should be an equal right for men too... if it was other way round,,,, oh my god would we hear about it..lol.. no but seriously if only one man or one child is saved the awful mind mess from this then it should be done.


Okay, I think I finally am starting to get this. The problem is that there is a certain percentage of men who think most women are greedy, lying sluts who are conspiring to make them pay child support. Or at least they think a lot of women are like that. If you just basically distrust women, then the idea of mandatory DNA testing might not seem so crazy.

My advice: start hanging around a better class of women.
 Notdesper8atall
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 55
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 7:54:05 PM
"Okay, I think I finally am starting to get this. The problem is that there is a certain percentage of men who think most women are greedy, lying sluts who are conspiring to make them pay child support. Or at least they think a lot of women are like that. If you just basically distrust women, then the idea of mandatory DNA testing might not seem so crazy. "

No, I dont believe you do get it. Do you realize as tax payers that we pay for the guys who walk away in the form of welfare? Do you also realize that there are plenty of men who pay for children who arent theres and never know. I do believe what you dont understand is that this idea would more than likely lower the amount of welfare going out to pay for the walk away dads as there would be no doubt who is left accountable.
 Chitownguy40
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 56
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 7:56:12 PM

So because I support Mandatory DNA testing that would make me a lower class woman? Even though I knew and proved who my son's father was because he wanted to be a complete****ead and tell the judge that his son wasn't his even though on paper he said he loved his son and wanted to see him?


What? No! What is wrong with everybody here?

Your son's father denied paternity. That is a very GOOD reason for wanting a DNA test. What I am asking is why, if your son's father acknowledged paternity and was a great dad, would it even occur to you (or him, or anyone else) to question paternity?

There are some circustances where a paternity test makes sense. I am juts trying to understand what justifies such a drastic measure as universal DNA testing when people with disputes about paternity already have the option of testing.
 ValkyrieHJR
Joined: 8/8/2009
Msg: 58
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 8:28:24 PM
Alright, just a couple of points here......


And, why would the government have to have the DNA results at all? Couldn't results be held by your personal physician? By YOU? (Capitano_Blaugh)


Your doctor may keep the results. But I guarantee, if the government is enforcing mandatory DNA testing, then they will have access to it, doctor/patient privilege be darned. I don't think they are particularly interested in everyone here or anything like that. But it's a matter of setting precedent. Once an outside agent has access to something simple like your DNA results, it's no stretch to release doctor/patient privilege on other things, such as whether or not you've ever had an STD. Or cancer. There is a reason it's called doctor/patient confidentiality.



I do believe your missing MY point. You may not know that you are in that 4 - 10 %until a much later date than current statues of limitation allow. If everyone had to do it the percentage drops to zero..and the statue becomes a non issue. I fail to see why folks resist stoping this problem before it becomes one. This manditory test would do exactly that. ( Notdesper8atall)


You know, I have actually seen this before. A man raises a child for several years, under the impression that it is his child. He grows to love that child and the child is part of his heart and soul. He would do anything for said child. Then one mom gets mad, for whatever reason, and sucker punches dad with the line that it's not his child. Here is my question......in what way, other than physically, is that child not the father's? The man has raised the child as his own and done everything for that child that he should be doing. I understand the man would be angry with his SO, but do you really think that he would abandon the child or forgo paying support for a child that he had grown to love in every way a father can? And if he can just abandon that child, what does that say about the man in general? (Please do not think I am excusing the mother in this situation. What she has done is just despicable, in general, whether she told the truth or not).
 SweetnessInFlorida
Joined: 6/26/2008
Msg: 60
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 9:46:19 PM
Try sleeping with men who have a higher opinion of you, then your children wont get denied. Obviously the guy thinks you're trash, why make 2 kids with him?
I dont think that paternity fraud is sooo widespread that everybody is going to be automatically tested at birth. But it should be an option for those who are sleeping with trashy people. Just get the swabs in the delivery room or post partum ward, not hard to do, for those that need such a thing.
 Chitownguy40
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 61
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/22/2009 10:01:49 PM

I would tend to lean towards those that don't like the idea would have something to hide.

I have nothing to hide, I know who the father of my children is, he only denies the boy, and only after the birth of him. He was all excited for awhile, however once the babe was born he made sure he couldn't be found except through his work


Again, I think you have a very good reason for wanted a paternity test.

I guess maybe this kind of stuff is much more rampant than I realized. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of a single one of my friends who ever denied paternity of a child. Yet, people here talk like that's what usually happens, that they pretty much expect it. Wow.
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 62
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History
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 5:10:22 AM
"You know, I have actually seen this before. A man raises a child for several years, under the impression that it is his child. He grows to love that child and the child is part of his heart and soul. He would do anything for said child. Then one mom gets mad, for whatever reason, and sucker punches dad with the line that it's not his child. Here is my question......in what way, other than physically, is that child not the father's? "

You are looking at less then half of the issues here. As are some of the other posters. You see it is not just the "Not the Daddy" that has been ripped off taking care of and supporting a child that is not his. There is the real father out there that might not even know he has a child and his rights to be a part of his childs life have been taken from him. If the number of 200,000 is correct it would effect 400,000 men every year not 200,000. Add to it the grandparents and the like, not hard to see it effects big numbers. Mandatory DNA test will support fathers rights. I have a friend whos dad was AB blood type and he is O+ blood type when he figured out that his dad was not his dad (high school bio class) it messed everything up for him, the man he believed was his dad and his mother. This did not take DNA testing to figure out, but he hated his mother for the lie as did his not the dad when he told him. Easy to see it effects the children too. Much better to know early. The only down side to it that I can see is less women in the child baring age range might cheat and that makes the smaller pool of women available to us single dads even smaller, other then that it is all good.
 Akizzej
Joined: 5/1/2009
Msg: 63
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 5:18:33 AM
I'm very much in favor of mandatory testing at birth - (life forbid) for an entire worldwide database... not just because I am a single mother who had to have it done, but because in this day and age, anything could be happening - not just in your country, but with the internet.... and ease of moving from one country to another.

as m_church mentioned; familial disorders, health checks and other issues can be found through mandatory testing... and I personally believe that mandatory testing might influence a positive impact on incidents of infidelity and frequent sleeping around. {ie less honest guys would not be so quick to try and get in a girls pants if they knew that a possible pregnancy might catch up with them... and the 'honest' guys would see more of the girls who would try to make them paying fathers"}. heck, there might even be some reduction in extra-marital affairs, something that is becoming prolific these days.

and yes, although I know I had that child lifesavingly pulled from that inciision in my belly, and I made the strongest effort to keep an eye on him through the whole procedure... there have been hospital mixups... and it's not impossible to have it happen... so prevention of that kind of heart ache has to be a bonus, yes?
 carterscutie85
Joined: 5/31/2007
Msg: 64
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 5:30:03 AM
I know hospitals have different policies, but at the one where my son was born I don't see how anyone could mix up babies. You don't share delivery rooms with people, and before your baby is taken to the nursery or out of your sight, they give you a wristband and the baby an ankle and wristband. On each wristband there is a set of numbers, your number has to match the baby's number on his wristband every time you go to get him from the nursery or before the nurse can hand him to you once you are in recovery. The nurses are very diligent in making sure the numbers match each and every time u request the baby or you get him from the nursery. They wouldn't even hand me my son until they made sure our numbers matched. They also put these little "anti-theft" (as I called them) devices on the babies ankle, if someone tries to take the baby out of the delivery ward with that still on his foot an alarm goes off, and personally even if I had wanted to I couldn't have gotten the device off.
 Chitownguy40
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 65
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 5:42:18 AM

Chitownguy if you can make any sense out of why my ex said he loved his son and wanted to see him yet once in the court room denied he was the father, that would be wonderful because none of us could figure it out. His parents had told me that he wanted to be 100% sure it was his son before he paid support. The only reason I can even think of is again because my son was born with blond hair and very bright blue eyes. He doesn't have blond hair or blue eyes so he figured it wasn't his ... though his mom has blond hair blue eyes


I don't know your ex, but I think I can make a few inferences.

I don't believe for one second your ex ever had any reasonable doubts he was your son's father. He just didn't want to pay support, so he just invented the story to try and weasel out of it. Who knows? Maybe his family or friends filled his brain with poison. Maybe he wanted so badly not to pay support, he kind of brainwashed himself. Some people cling to a lie so tightly they end up believing it.

Saying you love your son and want to see him costs nothing. Paying child support is a real commitment. As I think I said before, I am stunned at the number of guys who are honestly and truly outraged to find out they cannot simply father children and stick the mothers with all the expenses. It is like they have this notion that what is right and fair is whatever is most convenient for them.
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 67
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History
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 8:43:56 AM
I guess my question is if there is nothing to hide why not do it?

Just like a pre nup, if you really are in it for love, it shouldn't matter.
 KarmicEvolution
Joined: 11/22/2008
Msg: 68
view profile
History
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 8:45:53 AM
So now Im curious. Say there was mandatory DNA testing for every child at birth, does anyone else see this leading to issues if the child is adopted, or if the mother used a sperm donor, or if it was a surrogate mother, or if the baby was a product of rape, or if the father is not around to have the DNA test??

Why not just give the mother a lie detector test while shes pregnant asking if she cheated?

I just see SO many issues and flaws in this. And it really comes down to making the mother feel like crap because every mother would feel like she wasnt to be trusted.

"I know you just had a 49 hour labour and a hard delivery but I have to take a swab from your husband and your baby because we need to protect your husband from paying for and raising a child that might not be his"

Not to mention the paperwork that it would add...
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