Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Single Parents  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 104
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?Page 4 of 150    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)

(jenn8131) Everyone has been listing good pros and cons but if you make dna tests mandatory is that for every woman???
What if a woman is raped...


Red herring. How our society deals with rape (a crime), is of no consequence to how it (should) deal with paternity fraud (also a crime, but as has been observed, one that is, oddly enough, not sanctioned by law).

Binroe...
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 106
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 4:16:52 PM

(wonderingsole) That pretty much says they know you bought porn and what colour underwear you had when you did it.


Hah. I got 'em all beat: I NEVER wear underwear when I buy p0rn...

Heck, I hardly ever wear underwear, anyway... buying p0rn's just another reason to do it...

Binroe...
 Notdesper8atall
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 107
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 4:32:10 PM
"http://www.worldometers.info/
235,000 births by this second that would have to be tested...yeah really realistic. "


You do realize that for everyone of those births there are just as many lab tests ( or more) for blood work?

As for your point of marring some one you trust... What makes you thing all affairs are going to happen sooner than later? It may only be a one night fling induced by alcohol or an arguement or any number of other reasons. Your point has merit but not always does it hold true. As for the condom comment .. well birth control is a two way street. Which side are you walking on ?


I really dont understand the arguement against this idea.. Your not being accused of anything. Your proving a point.. This child is a product of these two people. Its not a case of being guilty before being proven innocent as some of the female posters believe it to be. This is no different than any other medical test you might undergo. And actually it is far less invasive than being checked every few minutes to see how far your effaced or dilated ( yes I was there for the births of all three of my kids).

I have to agre with m church on the many medical benefits of this as well in diagnosing many diseases that may be treatable or even preventable with this knowledge.

Many ask who will pay for this proceedure..You will.. if your on assistance the rest of us who pay taxes already do pay for your proceedures. Nappy kat I have read several of your posts on different forums ( your a sharp one) but if this is manditory for everyone .. your race and class arguements become a moot point. I honestly believe that the costs of these types of tests will go down dramatically and the quality will go up.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 108
view profile
History
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 4:41:15 PM
I seriously don't know of any woman that would carry a child of a rape to term.
 carterscutie85
Joined: 5/31/2007
Msg: 109
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 4:46:37 PM
It would be a very hard thing to do, but I am a member of another site where a women had her rapist's baby. Not something I could ever do. One of my friends had an abortion due to a rape. I can't say I blame her, I could never keep my rapist's baby.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 111
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 4:57:03 PM

(jenn8131) Why should the man have rights as a father if he raped the woman?


I actually agree with you on this. It's why I think we should look at each case individually. Of course, that's where the REAL can of worms gets opened up.

Not EVERY pregnancy/birth is a result of rape; Special Pleading, and trying to make a standard for ALL based on a relatively infrequent occurence, is just silly. There are rather more births that are NOT the result of rape, than ARE.

Binroe...
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 112
view profile
History
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 6:54:52 PM
It's odd that rape is mentioned,there have been several men in my state in the past few years who were released from prison after serving as much as 25 years in prison for a rape they didn't commit....some women said "he did it" and off to jail they went.The DNA test proved that these men never had any physical contact with these women...of course none of these women were ever held accountable for their false accusations that sent men away for half their lives....gone are the days when a woman can just pick a man to charge with rape or with being her baby's father...the field has leveled a bit,at least in this case.
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 113
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 7:29:27 PM
I just seriously don't the government needs to be that involved in our personal lives. Whether or not we are faithful to our SO is none of their business and they should not be brought into it. That is too much government.


You know, I find it interesting, and admirable, that our American cousins have this attitude, but I also think that it's really naive to think that your Constitution and belief in Freedom and Privacy is actually protecting you from the things you fear about Big Brother.

Your life is ALEADY an open book. Big Brother can ALREADY access any information about you that it wants. YOU are on camera pretty well 24/7.

Your belief that you still have some private parts of your life is probably the biggest hole in or threat to your privacy and freedom.

DNA testing won't make your life any more accessible than it is now.

 ValkyrieHJR
Joined: 8/8/2009
Msg: 114
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 7:48:56 PM
I know how accessible my life is. I know that I can be tracked by my ATM card, credit cards, my social security number, my Facebook and Myspace, and just my internet use in general and all of that. I know I have very little privacy from the government.

I also know that I am not worthy of their attention right now. Anything I do would be such small potatoes unless I started researching things like how to make a bomb or to become a terrosrist, etc. that I would not raise any red flags. Big Brother has no interest specifically in me.

But that also doesn't have to mean that I agree with it. I know it's in place, but I fight for my rights according to the Constitution, not by what my government says is okay.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 115
view profile
History
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 7:57:23 PM
Yea it's amazing what the internet can do
I found using google earth apersons house. I didn't know the address but knew the street and what the house looked like. I forgot his name but google earth gave me the address and white pages gave me his name and phone number from the address I typed in.

I also knew my mom got a new car in Hawaii using google earth. she had a white toyota and I could see on google earth that there was a red car in the drive.

also knew the kids uncle got rid of his pool.
 Notdesper8atall
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 116
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 8:09:54 PM
Let them watch me..Let them look all they want. I have nothing to hide.

We have nothing to fear but fear itself.

Remember those words. In the case of the internet and all the technology we have now you cant have it both ways. You cant put yourself out there and expect privacy.
It is akin to standing naked infront of your living room window and expecting no one to see you.
Sure they are watching.. but it isnt just you they are watching. I suppose you freak when a police car follows you for more than a mile down the road too? They are only coming after you if you do something to violate the law. They are there to watch everyone.
 ValkyrieHJR
Joined: 8/8/2009
Msg: 117
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 8:29:48 PM
I have nothing to hide myself. My life is an open book (don't believe me? Just check my MySpace page and read my blogs) Like I said, I know they are not paying any attention to me right now. And I know that almost every area of our lives are monitored by the government in some form or another.

But this thread is asking about mandatory DNA testing and if it becomes mandatory, then it is something the government will have to enforce. And they have no business being involved in that aspect of our lives. At some point we have to separate our personal lives from our public lives and from the government.
 Notdesper8atall
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 118
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 8:47:57 PM
So you figure the cut off is DNA testing? Fair enough.. But I dont see it that way.. Your whole arguemnet has been based on the government issue and frankly in my opinion its not enough reason to not do it. So what other government enforced issues would you cut out ?

Medicare
Welfare
law enforcement
roads and bridge funding
homeland security
national parks system
I can go on if youd like....

Where do you draw the line for the government to stop benefiting you because its too much of an intrusion into your life?
 ValkyrieHJR
Joined: 8/8/2009
Msg: 120
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/23/2009 9:11:45 PM
Let's see:


Welfare-needs some major overhauling just because it already has serious intrinsic issues
Medicare-do you mean medicare or medicaid? I could be wrong but I believe medicare is the one that is in place to aid senior citizens with their medical expenses. Medicaid, once again, needs some serious work, as many medicaid programs (at least around here) are willing to pay for things like liposuction and gastric bypass, but will skimp on anesthesia for a woman giving birth unless the doctor calls for it.
Law Enforcement-yes we need law enforcement, but even that is getting out of control in terms of things like the Patriot Act and all the dirty cops that are out there. (A lot more than you think). There is no checks and balance system in place for the cops. Have you ever heard the saying Absolute power corrupts absolutely?
Roads and Bridge funding-yes, it contributes to the economy. Good thing right now.
Homeland Security-yes, but once again, thins like the Patriot Act and others make it okay for them to do whatever they want.
National Parks service-yes. That's fine too.

Things like Law Enforcment, National Parks, Road and Bridge Building, etc. all have a place in our Constitution and belong in our government. Things like making sure we are faithful to our SO, is none of their business. And yes, before it is brought up, I don't like the fact that the government had to get involved in the child support system either. There are a lot of things in our government that have no business being there.

If you were to really sit down and look at the way the government is run these days, you would see that for the most part, it is nothing like it was meant to be when the Constitution was first drafted and adopted.

DNA testing is not the only thing I am against. Every few months around here, the local Sheriff gets a bug up his arse and brings in and deputizes officers from all over the state. Then he places them up down a 10-20 mile stretch of interstate, where they wait and watch for anyone they think they can pull over for the slightest reason, or none at all in some cases. Once they have them pulled over, the person's vehicle is searched from top to bottom, the seats are torn out, the dash is torn up, etc. all looking for drugs. While the ultimate goal is worthwhile, the means do not justify the end in this case. Someone going 1 or 2 miles over the speed limit is not probable cause for searching a privately owned vehicle to that extent. Nor does it equal exigent circumstances, as there was no other crime (save that of the police trampling on the rights of private citizens) being committed in plain sight.


*Edit for above* Matariki, you are right. But that doesn't mean I still have to agree with it. In fact, one of the reasons I have put off applying for all of the assistance I can qualify for is the amount of say so the government will have. On top of the fact that I just don't agree with the way a lot of it run.
 carterscutie85
Joined: 5/31/2007
Msg: 124
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/24/2009 3:20:23 AM
They are about $400 here. You have to pay the scientists who are analyzing the DNA, you have to help pay for the equipment being used, you have to pay for the shipping of the DNA samples back and forth, and your money also goes towards bettering the technology used in analyzing DNA. I say $400 is pretty cheap for all that.
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 125
view profile
History
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/24/2009 6:44:36 AM

It would make the world so much easier, not only on the paternity thing, but also unsolved crimes where they can't find a match to what they would collect at a scene. Think about it, maybe crimes would go down if people knew their dna was on file and they could get caught a lot more easy. Rapists and murders wouldn't be roaming the streets for years before they got caught etc.
Read the book: Brave New World

I'd rather have at least a semblance of privacy in my life than to live in a police state.


The information from the tests would only be available to those involved in it.
You're fooling yourself if you think that there is privacy in hospital tests. Someone always knows and for a price, someone will always tell.
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 126
view profile
History
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/24/2009 7:18:28 AM

At the end of all that, to that child you are still their father. To me, there is nothing more crushing than falling in love with a guy, being engaged, standing by him through some major issues, getting pregnant and having him look up and say "I want a DNA test". Knowing that most likely the person you've picked to have a child with will turn on you the minute that something major happens in your relationship.... that there will never REALLY be an "us"... it will be a "him" and "you" as long as you keep proving yourself. And wondering if bringing a child into that is really the right thing to do, since most likely the relationship will not survive.

There's no way around it... asking for a DNA test is an accusation. You are being told that you are not trusted by the one person you shouldn't have to jump through hoops to prove yourself to. And having it on a widespread scale is accusing all women. I have a huge problem with discrimination and this would make it government sanctioned.

It boggles the mind that anyone would think that I be shouldn't be offended by having to prove myself because of the parts are was born with. If a specific man wants to find out if a specific woman carrying a specific baby is a cheater they have the options.

But mandatory, f*ck no.


If it's mandatory, is it an accusation? For me, if you expect someone to stand by you through thick and thin, with any issues you may have and hardships along the way in the events that come from raising children together, verified paternity is the LEAST you can do. I mean, don't you ask your sexual partners if they are tested for STD's? I mean aren't you pretty much accusing them of being callous and unprepared if you ask for that? A one time per child DNA test isn't going to preclude there being an "us", to be honest, if my girlfriend wanted a test like that, i'd be completely fine with it and kind of proud she is at least thinking ahead.

Half of marriages end in divorce, when that happens, i'm SURE you won't mind violating your personal bubble to do a DNA test to make sure your child is supported when you win custody right? Fact is, if you are so afriad of a DNA test, and it's an "accusation", YOU are the reason i support testing, i don't care if the results are DESTROYED after the test, we already to a thousand tests during a pregnancy and childbirth.

Accusing all women? What kind of drugs are you on? Is having to produce an insurance card discriminating against people who drive cars? Are backround checks on police officers discriminating against people? Drug test discriminating? SAT's discriminating against those that can't read? Job interviews discriminating against those without social skills?

It's to PREVENT an unwanted outcome, in this case paternity fraud. It's not an accusation, i think it's funny that you even see it that way. Why not a verification of your fidelity?


As for the person that wanted the stat for the 10%, it's in one of my posts on page 6 i believe, from a canadian source. 30% of paternity tests come back that they aren't the father, but they estimate between 10-12% of fathers are raising children that aren't theres.
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 127
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/24/2009 7:34:48 AM

I'm still missing the part where some one stated that there were 10% of men that weren't the fathers of children they thought they were. I would love to see the study. Although I still find 10% to rather small, I don't believe it.


There are many sources with estimates of between 4-30%. Most put it at between 4-10% realistically.

I posted the number 200,000 cases of questionable paternity based on the published number of live births per year in North America using 4% as the rate.

The numbers are about 4.4million live births/year X .04... ok it comes out to 176,000/year where the paternity is possibly questionable.

I'm sure that number is much more acceptable to the detractors....

 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 130
view profile
History
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/24/2009 8:08:01 AM
Actually I agree it is a big privacy issue, and i think stringent methods should be in place to make sure it isn't misused, like we have now for medical records, ssn and other private data.

The reason i call them out is that they'd forgo that privacy to make sure there was a CS payment i'm sure, it's all well and good to violate privacy to get some financial support, but not to make sure the support is coming from the right person.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 131
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/24/2009 9:39:26 AM

(notatowniegirl) At the end of all that, to that child you are still their father. To me, there is nothing more crushing than falling in love with a guy, being engaged, standing by him through some major issues, getting pregnant and having him look up and say "I want a DNA test". Knowing that most likely the person you've picked to have a child with will turn on you the minute that something major happens in your relationship.... that there will never REALLY be an "us"... it will be a "him" and "you" as long as you keep proving yourself. And wondering if bringing a child into that is really the right thing to do, since most likely the relationship will not survive.

There's no way around it... asking for a DNA test is an accusation. You are being told that you are not trusted by the one person you shouldn't have to jump through hoops to prove yourself to. And having it on a widespread scale is accusing all women. I have a huge problem with discrimination and this would make it government sanctioned.

It boggles the mind that anyone would think that I be shouldn't be offended by having to prove myself because of the parts are was born with. If a specific man wants to find out if a specific woman carrying a specific baby is a cheater they have the options.


All excellent arguments, then, to make DNA testing at birth *MANDATORY*: the woman is under no illusions that her hubby suspects her of playing around, if it's *MANDATORY*.

You know, it really baffles me why so many wimmin balk at this, but argue against it on the grounds of *VOLUNTARY* testing, which is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish. If it's *MANDATORY*, then EVERYONE HAS to do it, and no woman is suspected of cheating any more than another.

The tar-and-feathers would only come out later...

Binroe...
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 132
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/24/2009 9:42:10 AM

(aaamm) I do believe any one woman that goes out one night and gets drunk and screws around on her husband isn't worth a relationship...same for a man.


Yeah, well, unfortunately, such people don't walk around with big red tatooes on their foreheads, advising others that they're potential cheaters.


Trust involves maturity, that is not a mature reaction.


Hey, the entire human race is not immature; only 99.99999%...

Binroe...
 ValkyrieHJR
Joined: 8/8/2009
Msg: 136
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/24/2009 11:52:39 AM
DADOF2 I totally agree that there are women out there that are just as bad. I know there are a lot of fantastic fathers out there that are raising their children while the mother is out doing whatever. My mother was like that for a long time when my sister and I were little. In fact, she walked out on us and left my dad working 3 jobs and trying to go to school at the same time. He ended up having to move us to New Mexico to live with his parents until she showed up 6 months later, wanting us back. Back then the courts in Wisconsin favored the mother over the father and she ended up with custody and extra paycheck. I was using the father just in general, the same way a lot of publications use he/him as a generic term.


as far as the I've got nothing to hide so it's no big deal. I don't know how it is in Canada. I don't know about your Constitution or government charter or anything like that. I can only speak for the United States and how I feel about our government here. I am a firm believer in our Constitution. I stand up for what I believe are the rights afforded us by this amazing document.

If the police were to knock on my door today and say they needed to search my house because they thought I was hording drugs, I would tell them not without a warrant. I have nothing to hide, but it is on principle that I would do this.

I don't have anything to hide. I don't cheat on my taxes or my SO, I don't commit any crimes, I take care of my children. I clean my house, etc. etc. I just don't think it's any of the government's business. There is such a thing as too much government. At some point we need to stop and say, let me deal with this situation myself, and not hand it off for someone else to handle it. A lot of people these days feel like the government owes them something, just because they exist. And so they are willing to sacrifice personal freedoms that are important, so the government can step in and take care of them. I am not willing to sacrifice things like my freedom of speech or religion. And yes (even though I don't like them and don't own one) the freedom to bear arms. Even the right to choose the people that represent me in my government.

In standing with that, I am against mandatory DNA testing. Yes, I understand it is a crime. And I am sorry it happens. I am sure the actual amount of fathers raising children that are not theirs and they believe to be theirs is larger than the estimates. But at the same time, I don't think the government should be that involved in out personal lives. That is just how I feel and what I believe.
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 137
view profile
History
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/24/2009 12:05:59 PM

In standing with that, I am against mandatory DNA testing. Yes, I understand it is a crime. And I am sorry it happens. I am sure the actual amount of fathers raising children that are not theirs and they believe to be theirs is larger than the estimates. But at the same time, I don't think the government should be that involved in out personal lives. That is just how I feel and what I believe.


So let me use your logic in something a little more close to home and with no disrespect.

Should you as a mother, if i say the child you birthed was not mine, have a right to test my paternity for the ability to collect child support?
 ValkyrieHJR
Joined: 8/8/2009
Msg: 138
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/24/2009 1:27:04 PM
That situation is not the same as mandatory testing at birth. As it is, I don't get child support right now. Once again. the government has no right to be in that situation. The way I understand it, a paternity test will be ordered by the courts in that situation. But at the same time, I wouldn't want it. It's not the government's business

Right now I am on the edge of a dilemma. I think that both parents should bear equal responsibility for their children, whether it was a one night stand, an accident, an extra-marital affair, a marriage gone sour, it shouldn't matter. Both adults were responsible enough to have unprotected sex, therefor they should be responsible enough to accept the consequences, both good and bad. But I detest the fact that it has gotten to the point that the government has gotten involved in something that should be a private matter.

There are several government assistance programs that I could qualify for right now, that I have not applied for for several reasons. Two of them are the fact that they will go after my ex for child support, which effectively involves the government in a situation where I don't think it belongs, and the fact that the government does not owe me a living. Even if I did serve in the military.

On the same note, I will eventually swallow my pride, step down off of my soapbox, and apply for those benefits, simply because with the economy the way it is right now I have not had any luck finding work, no matter how hard I have tried, and I need to take care of my kids. Unfortunately, the way that I see that, once I apply for and get approved for said benefits, I am no longer taking care of my kids, the government is.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 139
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/24/2009 2:29:03 PM

(valkyriehjr) That situation is not the same as mandatory testing at birth. As it is, I don't get child support right now. Once again. the government has no right to be in that situation. The way I understand it, a paternity test will be ordered by the courts in that situation. But at the same time, I wouldn't want it. It's not the government's business

Right now I am on the edge of a dilemma. I think that both parents should bear equal responsibility for their children, whether it was a one night stand, an accident, an extra-marital affair, a marriage gone sour, it shouldn't matter. Both adults were responsible enough to have unprotected sex, therefor they should be responsible enough to accept the consequences, both good and bad. But I detest the fact that it has gotten to the point that the government has gotten involved in something that should be a private matter.

There are several government assistance programs that I could qualify for right now, that I have not applied for for several reasons. Two of them are the fact that they will go after my ex for child support, which effectively involves the government in a situation where I don't think it belongs, and the fact that the government does not owe me a living. Even if I did serve in the military.

On the same note, I will eventually swallow my pride, step down off of my soapbox, and apply for those benefits, simply because with the economy the way it is right now I have not had any luck finding work, no matter how hard I have tried, and I need to take care of my kids. Unfortunately, the way that I see that, once I apply for and get approved for said benefits, I am no longer taking care of my kids, the government is.


Quoted in its entirety, just to tell y0u that you're an amazingly wonderful woman!

Binroe...
Show ALL Forums  > Single Parents  >