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 Notdesper8atall
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 140
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?Page 5 of 150    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)
"I think it is so Big Brother and unrealistic to DNA every baby. Back in the 1600 and 1700's people were coming to the US to get away from Government control. People would give birth and wouldn't let the government even know about the births. History repeats itself. "

Actually many of those folks can to America not only to get away for their governement and major outbreaks of illness and squallor, but to start over in a new place where job opportunities and personal freedom were rampant. The world was a different place back then was it better or worse.. only those involoved could tell you and they are all dead. Probably because they couldnt go get a free big brother flu shot.

As far as big brother goes if you had any serious idea of how "big" big brother is already you'd not worry about something as minute as DNA testing. The testing is no more unrealistic in its volume as any other medical testing that is done now. Your arguments dont fly very well.

As for thsoe who question the amount of paternity fraud .. google it. See for yourself what the numbers are before you discredit it. DO your own research to prove or disprove your hypothesis.

All in all its still a good idea to have it manditory for all. There is no discrimination in the term everyone.
 Notdesper8atall
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 142
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/24/2009 3:17:59 PM
"On the same note, I will eventually swallow my pride, step down off of my soapbox, and apply for those benefits, simply because with the economy the way it is right now I have not had any luck finding work, no matter how hard I have tried, and I need to take care of my kids. Unfortunately, the way that I see that, once I apply for and get approved for said benefits, I am no longer taking care of my kids, the government is."

First let me say I really do respect your opinion and thank-you for your service to our country. But swallowing your pride and asking for benefits because you need them is not what this is about. In addition, the government will also go after your ex ...that is guaranteed, and well they should benefits aside. He sounds like he isnt doing his fair share and to me thats wrong.

If you look at this from a slightly different angle on the big brother side of things, they are merely inforcing our constitutional right of "life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness." I know quite a few of the defrauded men who aren't able to persue happiness because of the situation they have been placed in. Fruad as far as I know is against the law. Manditory testing at birth removes one persons ability to defruad another.
 Notdesper8atall
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 143
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/24/2009 3:27:38 PM
"I again stress marrying before having children and if you must have sex and are a male to utilize a condom if you are that concerned about making a child and not wanting responsibility or wanting responsibility for it."

What makes you think just because you marry someone that the ability for fraud isn't there? Like binroe said a few posts back those folks dont have tattoo's or scarlet A sewn into their sweaters. Not every con works on the quick buck. Most take a long time to set up. A good con artist will never be found out, and those who are not so good may be found out years after the fact but you've still been conned and that wont change. Manditory testing solves all that.
 ValkyrieHJR
Joined: 8/8/2009
Msg: 145
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/24/2009 3:53:56 PM
Thank you, Notdesper8atall. I appreciate your respect. In fact, I try very hard to earn peoples respect, and don't just expect it. You also have a valid point. And I think it is terrible that there are people out there that do this. I know too well the love and absolute joy of being a parent. (even when mine are going crazy! )

At the same time, I also wish the government had not become involved in enforcing child support. Grown ups should be able to accept responsibility, and unfortunately, as parents, we are failing in instilling that sense of responsibility in our children. (I am using as a general term. I am trying to raise my children to do the right thing, as well I am sure there are many parents that are also trying to raise their children in the same manner). If we weren't failing in this, then the paternity fraud, deadbeat parents, theft, murder, and this horrible sense of entitlement people seem to have these days, would lessen incredibly.

I am not naive enough to think that this won't happen. Eventually it will. There is too much paternity fraud going on. And there doesn't seem to be any other way around it. If and when it does happen, I hope that the women that do try to pass a child off as their SO's when it isn't will have to suffer severe consequences, because it has forced the government into an area where they don't belong. But that doesn't mean I will vote for it, if it comes to that. I will continue to stand up for and fight for what I believe is right, even after it has become a law. (Say No the Patriot Act!!! )

And thank you Binroe. Although I don't know what I said that is so amazing.
 frog princess85222
Joined: 1/28/2009
Msg: 146
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History
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/24/2009 9:45:39 PM
i have the perfect solution.move to arizona and apply for state assistance lol. the state will pcck up the case and he will have to take the test.and if he doesnt he is automatically declared the father.thats how my sister got her test done.she applied for medical for her kids and they went after thier dad.she is a server so in the slow season she doesnt make good money like she does when the snowbirds r here
 Chitownguy40
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 147
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/24/2009 11:44:23 PM

There are several government assistance programs that I could qualify for right now, that I have not applied for for several reasons. Two of them are the fact that they will go after my ex for child support, which effectively involves the government in a situation where I don't think it belongs, and the fact that the government does not owe me a living. Even if I did serve in the military.


So you're willing to risk having your kids go without just so you can brag about how you never took handouts? What's the matter with you? Screw your holier-than-thou BS--PUT YOUR KIDS' INTEREST FIRST. That's what good mothers do.
 NappyKAT
Joined: 7/2/2008
Msg: 149
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/25/2009 6:36:42 AM


If a guy denies paternity to a child whose mother is recieving assistance, they will test him. And if he test positive to paternity, he may even have to pay that back to the guv for the test.

This is fine if he knows or suspects his partner to have cheated....
Huh? This isn't about cheating. A lot of men of children whose mothers receive social assistance support will deny paternity to a child they know is theirs so they delay having to pay child support.



But what if he DOESN'T KNOW....? The guy finds out later on, perhaps YEARS later, that he has been raising another man's (or men's) kid(s).... He's been duped and so have the children.... what about their rights?
Tuff tiddy, sorry about that. I was gonna say the mother of the child should pay him back, but considering she may have used it to take care of the kid, doesn't seem fair to the kid least while. Then I was gonna say maybe the gov should pay you back but that only if their CS went to the gov. I got no idea for that one.



How would you feel if you had a father you didn't like and you found out later your real father was a great guy but you had been raised by some ***hole....
You're asking me personally? Well I was just about to give up hope.
IF MY REAL FATHER IS OUT THERE, CAN YOU PLEASE STEP FORWARD NOW!

My daddy didn't raise me. He's a deadbeat who still lives with his momma. But if there is anybody out there rich who wants to be my daddy, I'm all for it. No DNA test required!

Seriously tho, how great can guy be if never bothered to find his child? ANYTIME you lay down with somebody without condom you can get them pregnant so he should have been more vigilent.


How would you feel to find out later on in life your daddy was not related to you...?
The same or relieved, not sure which. It would only be worse if I found out my dad was a pedophile or serial killer. Right now I'll take Osama Bin Laden as my daddy. Doesn't he have money?



How would you feel if you found out you were suffering from a congenital disease.... and no one knoew until it was too late.... your real father might have shown it in time to get you cured... or treated.... but no one knew him....
Well... can't miss what you didn't know you had. So I'm guess I'm gonna be sick or dead.



How about finding out you had brothers and sisters you didn't know about?
I would be glad about it at the time I found out, whenever I found out. I wouldn't be angry. If I never found them out, well like I said above - can't miss what I didn't know I had.



How abou finding out your mother lied to you....?
Oh well wouldn't be the first time. Hell neither my daddy nor my momma is too sure that I was actually his daughter NOW. But I have an uncanny resemblance to his momma so it's hard to deny me.

I'm the wrong person to ask these questions too because none of this phazes me. I ain't close to my daddy, really don't like him all that much, so if anybody had the possibility of being my daddy, that would be fine with me. I'm living my own life and won't be bothered with the drunk basterd anyway.... unless he got money. But who am I kidding? I am my paternal grandfather's only blood granddaughter and he got a little sumthin sumthin and still ain't givin me shit. All of it goes to his step grandkids that he raised with his 2nd wife.
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 150
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/25/2009 7:15:39 AM
It's a slippery slope when it comes to reproductive rights, what is next a litmus test for the right to have sex or procreation?


Yikes... and *I* got accused of having a knee-jerk reaction to this issue.....

Please, enlighten us as to how mandatory DNA tests at birth are going to compromise anyone's reproductive rights.

As for a litmus test (let us know about how that would have anything to do with sex or procreations??):

... given the number of irresponsible boneheads who have kids willy-nilly, I think people SHOULD have to have a license to reproduce....



Edit to nappy:



Please, enlighten us as to how mandatory DNA tests at birth are going to compromise anyone's reproductive rights.


I think you just answered your own question.


Ahhhhh no..... no rights would be trampled that I can see or foresee.

Nice try, though.....


Personally I'm all for 'irresponsible boneheads' reproducing without a license and I support their right to do so.


True enough....

... since stastically, better educated people have fewer kids....SOMEONE has to keep the population from falling off....


Cheers.
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 151
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History
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/25/2009 7:26:47 AM
Like i said earlier, it's an insult to women to have a test done, an invasion of privacy, a mockery of marriage, an accusation of infidelity.

Testing a man for paternity to get CS? Absolutely necessary, making deadbeats take responsibility, preventing a child from growing up in poverty.

Sounds about right.
/sarcasm


Funny how many women are protecting the right of women to trick their husbands into raising offspring that aren't theirs. To protect the ability to be financially supported even though they weren't faithful and the kid isn't his.
 NappyKAT
Joined: 7/2/2008
Msg: 152
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/25/2009 7:29:14 AM

It's a slippery slope when it comes to reproductive rights, what is next a litmus test for the right to have sex or procreation?

Please, enlighten us as to how mandatory DNA tests at birth are going to compromise anyone's reproductive rights.
I think you just answered your own question.

... given the number of irresponsible boneheads who have kids willy-nilly, I think people SHOULD have to have a license to reproduce....


Personally I'm all for 'irresponsible boneheads' reproducing without a license and I support their right to do so. I have to be. I'm the product of one of them and one of them myself.

So go ahead. Fock and make like jack-rabbits.
Or not.
Your choice.
And it should be a choice.


Testing a man for paternity to get CS? Absolutely necessary, making deadbeats take responsibility, preventing a child from growing up in poverty.
Unless ofcourse, you got pregnant by someone in the low and working class. Then it won't help you get out of poverty. And studies show that people tend to get pregnant by someone in their own social class.

Maybe I really do need a paternity test. Maybe I can find that rich millionaire who got not me knocked up!
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 153
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Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/25/2009 7:30:13 AM
"Funny how many women are protecting the right of women to trick their husbands into raising offspring that aren't theirs. To protect the ability to be financially supported even though they weren't faithful and the kid isn't his. "

So true and so sad. Have my cake and eat it too.
 NappyKAT
Joined: 7/2/2008
Msg: 154
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/25/2009 7:39:35 AM

Personally I'm all for 'irresponsible boneheads' reproducing without a license and I support their right to do so. I have to be. I'm the product of one of them
Dang, did I say 1? I meant 2.
As a matter of fact, make that generations.
I am the descendent of several generations of 'boneheads.'
And I support their right to procreate. Without a license.
Whatever. No shame in my game.

Do whatchu do baby-baybay!
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 155
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Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/25/2009 8:15:28 AM
lol nappykat.

I was just trying to illustrate the different views of some people regarding DNA testing, and how it is only valid when they see fit.

Anyone who thinks CS will get them out of poverty is fairly misguided i'd say.
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 157
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Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/25/2009 9:36:30 AM
Ironically though blood tests haven't?

Almost ALL medical procedures are covered under privacy laws.

And thats not an eventuality, we've had medical testing for eons, none of these tests have led to reproductive rights issues that still continue.

DNA testing costs, as with all tests will fall as frequency increases. And i don't think testing to make sure the father IS who is on the birth certificate is going to lead to genomics ruling parenting choices.
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 160
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Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/25/2009 11:54:34 AM
"If my ex had asked for a DNA test yeah I would have told him to go f himself and not to ever come around because it would have been very insulting and we both know that he is the father. "

If a women tells a man to go F himself because he asked for a DNA test, that women has shown herself to be abusive and the test should be ordered by the court. The real father should get full custody because the women telling the man to go F himself would clearly be un-fit as a parent. It is a mans right to have clearification via a DNA test.
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 161
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Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/25/2009 12:00:51 PM

I don't think a woman should have to be "forced" to say who the father is. If I don't want to say who the father is for any reason well its not like I can go after that man for support.


So you in your infinate wisdom get's to decide if the father is involved in the childs life? Apart from rape/abuse, who the hell are you to dictate if a father can be in their childs life by your whim alone?

What happened to the "it takes two to make a baby" stuff?
 ValkyrieHJR
Joined: 8/8/2009
Msg: 163
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/25/2009 12:13:50 PM

So you're willing to risk having your kids go without just so you can brag about how you never took handouts? What's the matter with you? Screw your holier-than-thou BS--PUT YOUR KIDS' INTEREST FIRST. That's what good mothers do.


Chitownguy, you need to read the rest of my post. I did, in fact, say that I would be stepping off of my soapbox and applying for said benefits, so that my kids could be taken care of. It's not a holier than thou attitude to try to do things myself before asking the government to bail me out, which they don't have to do. My kids interests are first, and part of that is to teach them to accept responsibility for their circumstances and try to get handle it yourself before getting someone to do it for you.

And, by the way, my kids don't go without. I do.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 165
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/25/2009 2:17:36 PM

(jenn8131) The reason I said that I would have said this is because we were in a committed relationship we were trying to get pregnant. We had unprotected sex for a month. He knew I was only having sex with him. So my feelings would have been extremely hurt and he would have known the only reason he was denying the DNA would be to get out of paying. And I wouldn't want him around our daughter to tell her that I had tricked him into getting pregnant or anything like that. I still would have given him a dna test if he had asked. I'm just saying my feelings would have been extremely hurt and that would have been my initial reaction. Please that wouldn't make me an unfit mother because I said one thing out of anger. Doesn't mean I would have denied him a DNA test.


ONCE AGAIN, an EXCELLENT argument for MANDATORY DNA testing. If it's a procedure that HAS to be done REGARDLESS, then there are no feelings to be hurt, no morals to be doubted, no accusations of cheating.

What is it with (some) women, that they JUST DON'T GET that their objections ONLY APPLY TO VOLUNTARY TESTS?!? If it's MANDATORY, all those objections go away.

Binroe...

(I love typing in CAPS when I'm in the library -- it's like I'm getting away with shouting...)
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 168
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Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/25/2009 3:40:50 PM
my 2 year old doesn't know what mommy is either, he never had one.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 169
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Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/25/2009 3:50:09 PM
my ex screwed up so bad take visitation is at my discretion. If I say no the answers no. But her drug use is dangerous for them. So she can only see them here and can't take them anywhere.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 171
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Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/25/2009 3:58:49 PM
I too am adopted by my moms second husband and found out at 13. I met my father at 17. he was cool but not a dad. Just remember, sometimes there is a good reason they aren't a part of your life.
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 172
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/25/2009 4:08:27 PM
There was a disproportionate number of vulnerable persons sterilized who were deemed unfit to procreate based on unemployed, alcoholism, sexual deviance or suffering from pauperism (living in poverty). Roman, Greek or Ukrainian Catholics and native persons were sterilized based on their creed.


So, you're saying that if we brought in mandatory DNA testing, we're going to go back to sterilizing people? That we're going to start cataloguing and exterminating people just because we have a printout of their DNA?

Sorry, but I think that's ridiculous.

As I said before, our lives are ALREADY open books. It wouldn't even take a dipshit like me to create a profile on someone just by taking a look at their debit card/credit card use, their facial features, their family life, their Facebook page, their Myspace page, their family website, their picture and profile on a dating site, the part of the country they live in, the neighbourhood they live in, their job etc....

... and I could do ALL of that easily if I were Big Brother. I could gather most of that information from where I sit now without special access to any Big Brother database.

I'm not any sort of fan of privacy infringement either, but if you believe that your life is private, you're fooling yourself. Every time you use a bank machine, you are on camera. You are on camera every time you are in a public place in more and more places in the world.

Again, I really think that the America belief that The People can prevent the government from poking around in your life is pretty naive. They can and probably do. Cell phones can be monitored easily. Land lines go through computers that can be accessed by all sorts of people should they want. In fact, I've read that there is a monitoring station that monitors ALL phone traffic for key words/phrases etc.

Your life IS an open book. One of the LAST bastions of privacy is your discussions with your physician and even THAT is suspect as more and more of your medical history is stored on computers by your doctor.

... I think I'm gonna go see if there's a hole in the sand I can stick my head into just to see if I feel better, more private and more secure...

 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 173
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/26/2009 5:43:05 PM

(jenn8131) If I hadn't met my ex I was going to use a friend and he was going to make an anonymous donation. And if I had gone that route he shouldn't have had to sign the birth certificate. Because maybe he wouldn't have wanted to acknowledge the child. Plus it would have been a deal between us where he would have had no parental rights. Going to take away a woman's right to use a sperm donner just so that we can have mandatory testing?


Jeepers...

Certain rights are abrogated ALL THE TIME, ostensibly for the purpose of making society better.

Sheesh. Some people just shouldn't get in to debates...

Binroe... (there's no headache icon, so this'll have to do...)
 NappyKAT
Joined: 7/2/2008
Msg: 174
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/27/2009 1:58:36 AM
It would save taxpayers money on going to court to order paternity tests and then spending too much time trying to find the guy in the first place.
Taxpayes are only paying for the DNA test of fathers who children recieve social service assistance - and they have denied that child.

If the mother does not recieve assistance, then the test has to be paid for the either parents who wanted it.

So lets reverse this - if I was the father and was rest assured that the baby was mine, and DNA test did become maditory, maybe I wouldn't want one because they are expensive and I don't want to pay (or need to pay). Will I then be forced to pay for a test I didn't want in the first place? Is that fair to me?

I already told you - Private insurance more than likely NOT cover DNA paternity test - so you will pay for it out-of-pocket. Not the taxpayers. Not your private insurance.

So Martiriki - since you are the one who needed one - would you be willing to pay for one out of pocket if the daddy didn't want one?


If so, then YOU should have one. manditory for you. Not me. I don't think we share the same daddy of our children.
 NappyKAT
Joined: 7/2/2008
Msg: 175
Mandatory DNA tests at birth?
Posted: 11/27/2009 2:01:32 AM
check it -

what if I actually got my sperm from a sperm bank to conceive my baby?

what if I used donor eggs and sperm?

Would they still need a manditory DNA or are they exempt? Is that fair?
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