Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 x_file_
Joined: 9/30/2009
Msg: 137
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?Page 4 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)

Is the idea of lifelong marriage obsolete?
Yes (57) 20%
No (189) 68%
Not sure (30) 10%
Total Votes: 276


The total votes are only 276. That's not large enough sample.



Philosophers and theologians have always placed marriage as the foundation of a society. True or False.
True
(131) 71%
False (Coontz and Gallagher)
(53) 28%
Total Votes: 184


Once again, that's not large enough sample.

Also, the answer should be "False" by default as there are very few philosophers who have spoken kindly about marriage, and infinitely fewer who have placed marriage as the foundation of a society. Actually, I don't know any philosopher who has argued that marriage is the foundation of society, not one in the 40+ philosophers I've read.



a lot of these answers sound jaded. if marriage is extinct, why are there still wedding dresses being made and money cards being printed with the words "congratulations on your wedding!" why are there people who are still employed as "wedding planners"?
and most of all, why do stores have such a thing as "wedding registry"?


It's extinct in the minds of many men. Unfortunately, there are still few men who are not smart enough to figure how damning can marriage be.



In the case of my friend, I meant that she does things specifically to nurture the relationship between her and her husband


Yeah, that's not quite the same as nurturing her husband.



Women today apparently care less about being married then men do.


That's what they want you to believe! Women do care about marriage more than men do. I wager that 90% of women want to get married - regardless of what they actually say.

Some say "I don't want to get married" as means to hook a guy who otherwise considers marriage a red flag.



I've been saying this for a couple years now: men desire to be in a relationship more than women do. I don't get it, but it's the truth.


Relationship? Perhaps! Marriage? No!



However, if 70%-80% of divorces were filed by men, NOBODY would want to hear ANY justification for it.


Yep, men would automatically be deemed as the "black sheep". Kind of like when a woman gets pregnant, it's always the man's fault - no woman wants to hear any justification from the guy (or any guy for that matter).



Women really need to get over themselves and their belief that they are the marvelous communicators that they believe they are.....

... 'cause from my experience and every guy I know, women are just as shitty at communicating as they accuse men of being.


 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 140
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 12/7/2009 6:38:43 PM
"Everyone complains about them until you need one"

That's the problem, needing one!!

70 years ago, you rarely needed one. Now every law is written and administered in lawyerese. Even get away from divorce for a second. SocialSecurity disability from the government, more than 25% of people need one to get their rights under the law! Why? Because most law makers are lawyers and write them so ONLY they understand them. Talk about giving yourself a permanent job, WOW!

Now as to fees they must pay and staffs. Why is that my problem? Is it my problem in any business where costs rocket out of control and I don't buy the product? NO! Here you have no choice. If you make $50 an hour x 40 hours x 52 weeks = 98,000. Now many of the better divorce lawyers charge from 300 to 400 an hour! That's not the top guys either. They get a good life, you can't even approximate justice.

So what would be the answer? Go without? Yeah that would workout real great for you. In the end, the laws need to be changed, suzie homemaker does not exist anymore. But they(lawyers) go on with business as usual. The system is fuked and nobody cares. She gets a payday, the lawyer gets his fee, why change anything!!

THAT'S why marriage is dying, alot of guys don't want to get fuked twice, so why take the chance!!
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 142
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 12/8/2009 4:12:10 PM


I've found from my experience and from other guys I know that women love to believe that they are being upfront, working hard to make things work, respecting their men, blaugh, blaugh, blaugh... but the women often fail to see what THEIR part in the fvck up is.



I truly believe that the woman of whom I speak has gone above and beyond in terms of trying to make things work, including, but not limited to, moving half way around the world for him. I do not think she is perfect, but I do think she has done a lot more for him than he has for her....Why? She loves him, respects him, and values him.


Yes, well, she SAYS she loves him etc, but so what? What she tells you means diddly-squat.

Have you ever asked HIM what his perspective is? I doubt it.

I know of ONE couple of all the couples who are roughly my age who have made it 20 years together who MAY, truly still really love each other. And, to use the stupid distinction between 'love' and 'in love' this particular couple may still be IN love....

... but I've never talked to HER about it. I have talked with HIM and he's still smitten after nearly 30 years, but for all I know, she may hate his guts for past hurt.


BTW, she is heartbroken and agonizing over the decision she is in the process of making. There is nothing for her to gain by breaking up ( she makes almost twice as much $ as she does, so she is not motivated by $) except the emotional relief in being free from being with a man who shows no affection, no interest in her life, and who is not interested in sex.


Well, again, you are getting ONE side to the story. It sounds to me like she's just talking herself into what she wants to do and you are helping her be ok with the decision she's already made.

As I've said many times, today's soulmate is tomorrow's shithead. Her husband is becoming that soulmate morphed into the shithead.

You help to make her case which is something that many women seem to do these days. Divorces seem to come in clusters of friends who kick their husbands to the curb.


Well, I cannot speak for all women, but when I referred to my friend's situation, I said that her partner was not making an effort to her "clearly stated" needs. She has shared with me some of the things she has told him, and I am convinced she has been very, very clear. I also feel I was clear and explicit with my ex.


Yeah... if you asked my ex, I"m sure she'd tell you that SHE was perfectly clear with me before she left with her lover. I'm sure sure she'd tell you that she gave it her all during the counselling sessions we went to at my request in an attempt to repair our damaged relationship.

From MY perspective, she was already LOooooooooong gone before she ever let me know anything 'clearly'.

 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 143
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 12/8/2009 4:20:19 PM
(GoodGirl100) A significant number of marriages end due to cheating, abuse, or addiction. You can argue, if you will, that both sexes cheat, and struggle with addiction, but the abusers are overwhelmingly male. My ex thought he deserved some kind of medal because he didn't cheat, didn't beat, and didn't drink. I have heard, over and over again, even in this thread, that men seem to think this is some kind of gold standard for marriage.


Given the low level of morality these days, that *IS* a gold standard. Pretty sad, hunh?


...but the abusers are overwhelmingly male.


Oh, horse-feathers.


Most women nowadays will not settle for this.




Binroe...
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 144
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 12/9/2009 11:11:29 AM
What if he didn't beat or cheat, what if he didn't drink or drug? What about the marriage where money was not an issue?

You know I've read hundreds of posts where the above behavior was the issue. Few where they were honest enough to say what actually happened. In all things here, there's his side, her side and the truth in between.

People meet, fall in love, and marry. Then the dynamic changes, she wants this now or he wants that. They grow apart, or more likely fail to acknowledge problems and work on them. I know, I was one of them. Although she cheated, I failed to recognize the problems leading up to it and effective deal with it. One partner changes, the other doesn't, and that second partner is left holding the bag.

The bottom line is without wanting kids, why marry? That drive is shared by many, but strongest in women. For ALL the women on here, who's marriage they ended who had children. How many can honestly say, you showed him he was as important AFTER the kids, as before? Kids aren't cheap, many times, the money problems stem from that. Or sex that happened spontaneously, now happens rarely, because the children leave you drained. So he cheats, or spend money on himself or doesn't make enough to support 4 people where the 2 of you were fine.

There will always be marriage, youth sees themselves as indestructable, so they will do it better(they think) than their parents. Young women will always have their bio clocks and push for marriage. It is among the divorced, that marriage is dead. They know it doesn't work and wish to avoid the whole mess again. Think fool me once shame on ....
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 145
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 12/9/2009 4:37:44 PM

They grow apart, or more likely fail to acknowledge problems and work on them. I know, I was one of them. Although she cheated, I failed to recognize the problems leading up to it and effective deal with it.


You bring up a couple of good points. Your situation sounds very much like mine in the above bit.

In retrospect, I can clearly see where I messed up, but I had the unfortunate experience of growing up with two parents who loved each other. This really didn't prepare me in any good way for relationships in the late 20th, early 21st centuries. I never even learned the rules of relationship battling because I never saw my parents fight.

I did ask my mom before she died about why she and my dad never fought and she told me they DID fight, just never in front of me and my brothers...

.... well, HELLO! It would have been nice to lear HOW to fight since so many women seem to relish a good fight. Shit, I had girlfriends who dumped me because I didn't fight with them, or know how....

And, back to my point from an earlier post, my ex never let me know she was thinking of pulling the pin until she'd already chosen to leave. And, of course there are those who'll say that I just wasn't listening, which IS possible since I knew she wasn't terribly happy. Neither was I, but I didn't have a need to go and bang someone other than my spouse, something that my ex forgot to let me in on....



That drive is shared by many, but strongest in women. For ALL the women on here, who's marriage they ended who had children. How many can honestly say, you showed him he was as important AFTER the kids, as before? Kids aren't cheap, many times, the money problems stem from that. Or sex that happened spontaneously, now happens rarely, because the children leave you drained.


Kids were definitely the biggest stressor on my relationship with the ex and the ultimate demise of it. I think it's where I started feeling like, even became, the slave without realizing it and she lost respect for me. I just thought I was supposed to pick up the slack because she was the mom, now, and didn't bother point out that I was also working one full-time job, one part-time job and trying to do at least half of the house work as well...

... so, I swallowed the resentment and didn't say anything. Not good...

.. ah, well....

... like most relationships out there, I was clearly the reason things fvcked up, 'cause I'm just a guy....

... talk to my ex, though, I'm sure she can give you a complete list of all the things I didn't do for her....



 PregnantLady
Joined: 3/1/2010
Msg: 148
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 4/3/2010 3:23:01 PM
Why are there so many divorces? That's easy. People don't want to try and make relationships work anymore.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 150
view profile
History
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 1/22/2012 4:59:41 PM
yeah, and the more times people get married, the more they divorce, on average.

so, stick with the first one and fix yourself.
 ipiano
Joined: 1/15/2012
Msg: 152
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 1/23/2012 7:06:01 AM


and society forced you to stick it out even with addictions, abuse, and infidelity.



Ah, the ABUSE CARD. LOL. So most American men are abusers? How nice! Feminism has taught most our woman to buy into that explanation. Typical feminist philosophy. Fact is, abuse accounts for a fraction of divorces. In fact, woman initaite divorce 70% of the time for non abuse reasons.


I initiated my divorce. I figured after being "slapped around" a few times a week, being called a bunch of names my kids didn't need to repeat at school, hearing how worthless and useless and fat and ugly I am, and allowing him to make me feel as bad as I did for oh, nine years, I had had all of the "...and for worse" bit I was going to take.

Oh, and before you jump up and down on my "slapped around" comment...the last time he hit me he bruised one of my kidneys. I still feel justified in getting out, no matter what anyone has to say. No one deserves to be treated that way.
 452
Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 154
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 1/23/2012 7:31:29 AM
People have deeply tinted rose colored glasses on when looking at the past regarding marriage.Things were not any better,people were not more moral,people were not more committed,they simply had less choices.

People did not have the choice of enjoying a fulfilling sex life and not be married.Well at least women did not have this choice unless they were willing to bear the burden of the scarlet "S".People could not have children outside of marriage and if they did their choice was to bear the horrible stigma of being an unwed mother,or be a **stard if you were the child, or face a life threatening abortion.If they were lucky the girl would get sent away to have the baby in secret only to have it taken away from her whether she wanted to or not.

Marriage was the only option and not only for women either.How much sex could the average guy get? Not much.Maybe the town whore would give him a ride or two,but those would just be pity f**ks and that would be it for him.Being average he wouldn't have more then two pennies to rub together so hiring a prostitute would be out of the question. Getting married would be the only way of having regular sex.

People often talk about half of all marriage ending in divorce but they fail to see or don't realize that if half fail then the other half survive.50% percent are pretty good odds.If we were in a casino and we had a 50% chance of winning at a certain game we would all be playing that game.

What people also don't realize about those statistics is that remarriages are a big reason as to why the divorce rate is 50%.Try building a new marriage with his kids,your kids,his ex,your ex add to inlaws and all the regular stresses of life and it's almost guaranteed to fail.
 TimeEnoughForLove
Joined: 11/2/2011
Msg: 155
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 1/23/2012 7:50:35 AM
I don't think marriage is on its way out...and divorces will continue to rise simply because expectations of each other have continue to rise. Lower the expectations and divorce will decrease.

A true love relationship is not based on great sex nor it is a function of not having arguments. What brings it about is not easily defined. However how it effects each partner is very simple to describe. There is an obvious emotional serenity that seems to follow them around and when parted they feel a bit uncomfortable. The discomfort is not profound, but more like an itch on the back that cannot be reached. Do they argue and toss their egos around? Well it sort of depends on their age. The younger lovers are more likely to have lover quarrels whereas the senior lovers just want to curl up around each other. With the passage of time our need for having a secure relationship seems to grow in intensity. When our bodies grow weak, and wrinkles sprout overnight like dandelions on a green lawn, then emotional serenity has no price. The magic of love is the inner peace that we share with another: it has the touch of a butterfly, and the strength of a dragon.
 ontario_woman
Joined: 4/3/2005
Msg: 156
view profile
History
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 1/23/2012 8:31:12 AM
^^^I have to agree with TimeEnoughForLove

Many people have unrealistic expectations of marriage. They seem to think that a successful marriage should mean being in the honeymoon phase forever where the sex is mind-blowing all of the time and euphoric feelings are the norm. Once the honeymoon is over and the real work of the relationship begins, they think that something is wrong and bail either through infidelity, divorce, neglect, etc.

A marriage is a partnership. There are going to be times of stress, times of happiness and times of conflict. The level of sexual desire and activity will ebb and flow as the relationship matures, children arrive and later leave the nest and as life's ups and downs impact the couple. A long-lasting marriage has to be based on something much deeper than what many people are looking for. It's this deeper connection that is going to determine the success of the relationship.

Unfortunately, we live in a culture that espouses instant gratification and a me-focused mindset.

Do I think that marriage in on its way out? No. I still believe in life-long relationships. However, the traditional model of marriage needs serious revisions. We have to remember that previous generations did not have the luxury of leaving a relationship when there was abuse, infidelity, etc. They had no choice but to stay and accept it. I don't want a return to those days. We tend to view the past with rose-colored glasses. Things were not all that good back then and I certainly don't want to see a return to those days.

The changes in the marriage model reflects changing sexual roles and provides women with a socially accepted out if her husband is abusive, addicted, etc. It takes two to make the marriage work.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 157
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 1/23/2012 8:50:00 AM
There are three reasons why a woman gets married:
1. To get the big fancy rock on her finger to shove in her friends' faces.
2. To get the fairy tale wedding
3. Has baby rabies and needs a sperm donor

There is one reason why a guy gets married:
1. Sex-without having to chase drunk women in bars or hitting on co-workers

Women can attain their goals in a short period of time while a guy's needs are continuous. That's why in most cases it's women who file for divorce. After her needs are met, she sees no reason to be married. Marriage is just used as a tool to get her needs met.
 ontario_woman
Joined: 4/3/2005
Msg: 158
view profile
History
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 1/23/2012 9:01:45 AM

There are three reasons why a woman gets married:
1. To get the big fancy rock on her finger to shove in her friends' faces.
2. To get the fairy tale wedding
3. Has baby rabies and needs a sperm donor

There is one reason why a guy gets married:
1. Sex-without having to chase drunk women in bars or hitting on co-workers


Perfect examples of unrealistic expectations. Women grow up equating marriage with a fairy-tale wedding and men grow up equating marriage to sex on demand.

Notice how no mention was made about creating a life-long partnership based on mutual respect that encourages and supports the emotional growth of both parties.


Women can attain their goals in a short period of time while a guy's needs are continuous. That's why in most cases it's women who file for divorce. After her needs are met, she sees no reason to be married. Marriage is just used as a tool to get her needs met.


And here we have the perfect example of the type of non-respectful and negative attitude that is going to guarantee a failed marriage.
 qualityl
Joined: 10/16/2010
Msg: 159
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 1/23/2012 9:24:44 AM
Well, when we neglect the practice of self-reflection our life condition can easily shrink into the lesser worlds, and we seem to notice things in other people that bother us. If we look at the traits that irritate us about other people, we often discover the same traits within ourselves. Also the sources of attraction who brought us together in the first place, and can lead to marriage. Everyone attracts a certain type of person, both recognize the potential that exists in the relationship, and to act accordingly. Mutual respect and open communication is the key to happiness. I believe your family upbringing sets your morals on marriage issues, and life long goals.
As for me, my parents were married 50 years, and made me become who I am today.
If two people fall in love, marriage is a great thing. It takes work like anything else in life. If people can not have children, have previous children, or want children, then adopt if his/her partner can not have children. Not everyone wants children anything is life is possible. Remember. everything in life can be worked out if just communicated properly, just be positive that you have a life on earth. Enjoy it why you can! Reach for the stars and your goals
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 160
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 1/23/2012 4:34:39 PM
enquirer- I think it boils down to a basic lack of respect for what you promise when you marry.
There was a time when people took it seriously because divorce was a stigma.
People didn't enter into marriage lightly because they considered it for keeps and acted accordingly.
I was married for twenty one years, truthfully about six years longer than I should have been, but I took my vows seriously, when I swore to God, family, friends and each other it was forever, I meant it. I won't get into all that went wrong, that would take a book, but I fought for it. We went to counseling twice, I made romantic dinners, showed true interest in his work and feelings, planned things for us to do, etc. The problem was, I was the only one trying and I had to stop beating a dead horse. I can live with my divorce because I gave my marriage my all.
These days, since divorce is so common, it's almost like people enter into it thinking if things go wrong, oh well, abandon ship.
I can't begin to think I can really change that, but I will do my part by keeping the same mind set about marriage I always have.
Know the person, know the person well, take however much time you need to ensure that when you take those vows, you are sure about them and respect them.
I know there are others out there like me who feel about marriage as I do, so really all we can do is teach our children and anyone we have influence over that marriage is not a game and hope that one day those entering into it will show more care to something so precious.
 Drostatus
Joined: 9/15/2011
Msg: 161
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 1/23/2012 6:42:04 PM
no, not at all. the issue i see is that people marry without accepting the core values of marriage, and even deeper than that is our society today. People of old times believed in sticking in and fighting through things. They over came struggles by their patience and understanding. But today we live in a microwave age, where everything needs to happen quick. We also lack discipline.
 Drostatus
Joined: 9/15/2011
Msg: 162
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 1/23/2012 6:42:31 PM
no, not at all. the issue i see is that people marry without accepting the core values of marriage, and even deeper than that is our society today. People of old times believed in sticking in and fighting through things. They over came struggles by their patience and understanding. But today we live in a microwave age, where everything needs to happen quick. We also lack discipline.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 163
view profile
History
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 1/25/2012 4:33:12 AM
A big picture way to look at this:

Marriage is a human creation. More than that, it's a creation on the part of CIVILISED humans. By that, I mean that it is, and has always been more of a social contract with your entire village or neighborhood than it has been a natural, spiritual and emotional link-up.

Long before people started living in large groups and creating governments, they still linked up, had sex, and raised kids, and lived together. We don't know much in detail about this, but we can be certain that what we call marriage today, did not always exist.

With this view, I can easily see that if all of the financial and governmental aspects of marriage are removed, that people will most likely revert to the ancient ways, and simply live together when it is something they want to do.

From this viewpoint, the number of divorces has nothing at all to do with whether or not marriage continues to be a common choice.
 valenciacityx
Joined: 3/10/2009
Msg: 164
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 1/25/2012 9:09:29 AM
a 'Life' sentence in jail is really only about 7 years
why do you expect it to be any longer in the marriage venue
it is the same pedantics perpetuated by the American Legal system.
get out of America - it all changes.

Ie you bring a divorce suit in Moldova that is unfounded (ie no infidelity, no abuse, no fraud ) and the LAWYER gets fined as well as the plantiff. Funny, there is not alot of divorce in Moldova
 Leib ben Yitshak
Joined: 3/26/2008
Msg: 165
view profile
History
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 3/19/2012 9:46:26 AM
This question CAN NOT BE ANSWERED AS STATED. In fact, according to the 2010 Census Bureau reports and the AARP journal the divorce rate among people younger than 45 is on the decline whereas the divorce rate among those over 45 is increasing.
The question must be asked why is there a difference between us old fogies and you youngsters.
 Luke_Mason
Joined: 9/16/2011
Msg: 166
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 3/19/2012 11:21:04 AM
I did find it interesting that non-Christian marriages are around 60% for divorce, while active conservative Protestants that led to divorce is only 35%.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700112586/Christian-divorce-rates-disputed.html

From a Christian perspective as noted in the Bible, both men and women have to be TAUGHT to love their spouse. Unfortunately the average family or secular society does not teach children or adults HOW to love. If the God of the Bible is the very personification of LOVE, and he directed that people have to actually be taught how to love, it's not hard to see why those who are not taught what love is, and how to love, end their marriages in divorce.

Just my opinion but I have a feeling the majority of the 35% Christian marriages ended when one or both partners decided to stop serving Christ. Unless people are taught what genuine love is, and how to love, outside of what the media and Hollywood teaches the divorce rate will probably only get worse. The epitome of a non-Christians life is selfishness, trying to make a marriage work when none of them have any idea what love is would be a miracle indeed.
 Stevieno
Joined: 1/30/2012
Msg: 168
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 3/19/2012 11:33:28 AM
I was married for 22 years. I thought It would be forever. Yes I am a man and I truly wanted to be one of those married couples that celebrated their 50th anniversary. But that all went away a year and a half ago. Marriage is wonderful If you have someone who sees eye to eye with you and has the same beliefs . I want someone to grow old with and travel the world with. I want the same woman in my bed every night. Intimacy never goes out of style. My divorce wasn't because the flame or intimacy went away it was other reasons. We didn't see eye to eye and I didn't know that until it was too late. I will get to know my next best friend and I will communicate and (YES) listen more than I did before. Yes men!!! we don't know how to listen. I learned my lesson and I will work harder, love harder and yes listen harder. I loved having my best friend around all the time. Marriage is great if you can handle being with One person for the rest of your life, if not then just date...Dating is wonderful and you have to do it to find that special someone. It takes time to find that special person. Time, conversation, listening, loving and living. Good luck..steve
 JoseMadre
Joined: 1/9/2012
Msg: 169
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 3/19/2012 11:36:07 AM
If marriage were on the way out there would be fewer divorces because almost no one would be getting married.
 starlight334
Joined: 6/18/2010
Msg: 170
view profile
History
marriage on the way out?? if not why are there so many divorces?
Posted: 3/19/2012 9:51:53 PM
I knew when I was a kid that I don't want to get married. I don't think I will ever.
It has nothing to do with love, friendship, partner. Seems that is more of a way of extorsion of feelings, time, attention, ones life. Marriage is more like a pressure to "get you now" and if later you don't want me anymore you need to pay...you will be punished potentially. AND..let's involve society into it also. What a BS !. Friendships require sacrifices at the right time in life. Marriage does not mean anything to me other then trouble. People should do together things that they have in common and not what it differentiates them.
If I don't like hockey don't force me to watch hockey. If I am not hungry please don't ask me to eat. Also don't insist please. These little things screw up relationships big time.
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  >