Notice: Forums will be shutdown by June 2019

To focus on better serving our members, we've decided to shut down the POF forums.

While regular posting is now disabled, you can continue to view all threads until the end of June 2019. Event Hosts can still create and promote events while we work on a new and improved event creation service for you.

Thank you!

Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 73
view profile
History
Men -- How we workPage 7 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
Your post sounds more like dog training than having a relationship with another adult.

Personally, I would rather be with someone I don't need to train and at this point I don't think I am overly demanding consequently I cannot imagine a request not being something someone could easily comply with and probably not unless it had to do with something that had upset me, i.e. hurt feelings not how you put your socks in the hamper.

If someone doesn't give enough of a shit to try to take my feelings into account I am probably not going to be screaming or patting anyone on the butt, I'm gone.

Kids are funny things, you can do things the "right way," with great care to the self-esteem, trying to give the child transition time, trying to find a motivating factor for cooperation, even perhaps the reverse psychology, etc. but eventually you need to say fuk this and put the little tot in the car. In many cases, the people that need the patting the most are those that are least likely to change in the first place and are just taking advantage of you trying to act like a reasonable, rational human being.
 gentleplus
Joined: 9/8/2008
Msg: 76
view profile
History
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 3:41:20 PM
Yes I tend to agree pandus.. if u agree with her point then none of the pushback is needed .... the goal is to create a sense of doubt or angst in her mind so that she will be less intense and more moderate and factual because she is anticipating paybacks in your reply that may never occur is all
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 94
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 9:39:12 PM
Well, OP has sage advice if the only person in the relationshp is the man. Because then, if that's how he thinks it should be, it's all good. But usually, there are two people in a relationship, and what EACH of them needs is considered of EQUAL value.

Hey, and BY THE WAY, I have coached boys as well--they do what they are told to do by the coach without asking questions. "Cuz Coach says"
 skylarkMD-10
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 98
view profile
History
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/29/2009 7:03:56 AM
Its not like communication skills are taught in school. Most of this is learned by casual observation and some parents stink at it. Is there really a reason to announce “Lets talk” . Why do couples wait till there is a lets talk moment instead of just talking all along? Sometimes you have to step outside your comfort zone to stay current instead of waiting for the snow ball effect to hit and a lets talk moment arrives. Keep talking while its manageable and current don’t wait till it becomes an issue. Then again they don’t “teach fighting” fair in school either.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 100
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/29/2009 8:30:17 AM
Really--I thought the point you were making is that women need to change how they communicate because men won't. Instead of both trying to understand each other, I thought YOU were advocating women get a spot on ESPN to talk about emotional issues such as,
Her: "Honey, I'm thinking of leaving you because you won't talk to me."
Him: Oh, gawd, I hate talking about this crap. And the game is on, I can only understand quick statements of fact. "Quit nagging me."
(Wait--where'd she go?! Man, women are crazy!)

I just thought of something:
If a woman kind of sneaks up on you with the "we have to talk" line, and you're unprepared, say so. Say, "OK, I am willing to talk and listen, but my head just isn't in the right place right NOW. Do you mind if we talk about it later?" Then, give a specific time, and if she argues and says, "NO! I want to talk NOW!" say "I'm sorry, I'm not ready now." Keep calm--I'm told you men prefer to speak in short, factual statements without emotion. This is a far better strategy than syaing, "Quit nagging me."
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 104
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/29/2009 9:24:22 AM
Anyone over 30 should know right from wrong, good from bad, etc. I shouldn't have to treat a man like a child and give gold stars and points and I am not interested in training him. If I wanted to raise a child I would have had one. I do agree that being encouraging versus discouraging is the way to go, but I have no choice but to just walk away if a man has no interest in pleasing me as much as I do him. I've always laughed at coaches that yell and scream at their team and think it's extremely immature and nowadays a guy could go to jail for patting a child's butt. If this is the only emotional level men are capable of I think I'll switch teams.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 106
view profile
History
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/29/2009 9:51:08 AM
I really don't think it goes down to treating someone like a child. Good golly, I generally respond better to someone being positive than coming down on me. People tend to avoid those who are negative and critical and move away from pressure.

The OP's point would seem to be: "Catch someone in the act" of doing something right and acknowledge them. In my experience, both men and women respond well to that.

I like getting my sh!t when I've messed up real quick and clean... nothing drawn out or belaboured or a big production. Just tell me I screwed up and how I can make it right, and accept my apology.

And, BTW, despite appearances on Oprah, Dr Deborah Tannen's books on the differences in how men and women communicate is the real deal.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 110
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/29/2009 2:06:54 PM
If I ask someone to do something for me, which is so rare it's not even funny since I hate to do that - and I end up doing it myself (or paying someone to do it which it actually less painful), it just proves to me I should do everything myself in the first place, and I start to wonder what he's there for. *shrug*

I'd rather not ask and deal with everything myself then go through not liking to ask and then having to wait when it could have been over with.
 davidsauvignon
Joined: 2/6/2008
Msg: 118
view profile
History
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/30/2009 2:57:56 PM
*I* expect to be treated and spoken to in a respectful manner by a partner as that is what I would offer. I don't require or 'need' constant positive reinforcement to uphold my end of the bargain in the relationship. I gave my word I would and will stick to my word.

It's obviously nice and appreciated when our partners make 'us' feel appreciated, valued and wanted. However, if the goal is to manipulate or change someone, whether by coddling or complaining, well, it just won't work on me. I am who I am and if I don't suit you or fulfill your needs, then obviously we need to go our separate ways.

However, normal communication in a relationship includes discussing all aspects of our lives...positive and negative...and how we, or our actions, impact one another (for better AND worse). With that, comes the normal negotiation and compromise that help to bond us, strengthen the relationship and grow as people. No way will I be with someone where I feel, by them merely uttering a phrase such as "let's talk" or, "we need to talk", a sense of fear, panic or intimidation. Those are signs of something a lot deeper than poor communication skills, e.g. control issues, narcisism, etc.

And I agree Margo...get it out in the air rather than letting it fester and build. Also, when I accept my shortcomings, apologize and adjust my behavior accordingly, that should be the end of it. It's not ammunition to be used in future discussions or disagreements unless it is symptomatic of a pattern or similar behavior/trait.






~ds~
 DIVISION77
Joined: 8/10/2009
Msg: 121
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/30/2009 6:11:18 PM
Good point, Ron.

I think you should treat women exactly how they treat you.

If they want to have a "talk" to inform you of your deficiences, you should take them aside and do the same with them.

One good "talk" deserves another.

Guaranteed, if you do this, you will get alot farther or they will stop pestering you altogether once they realize you can do the same thing.



 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 125
view profile
History
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/30/2009 8:50:24 PM
umm, didn't you leave out the "we need to talk" bit at the start of your post?
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 133
Men -- How we work
Posted: 12/1/2009 7:54:30 AM

If someone says they will, I expect them to honour their own committments. If they don't want to, they can just say no. Why don't people just say no if they really don't want to do something?

This is big, actually - if you don't want to do something, say no. Men are advocates for honesty, but in cases like this they don't always practice it.

If you're afraid to say no because you know she'll ask someone else or hire someone to do it or whatever, suck it up. Ego has no place in it.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 134
view profile
History
Men -- How we work
Posted: 12/1/2009 12:07:08 PM

Well what DO they get?
Something gives me the creeps about a grown man rewarding
boys with pats on the butt.

Is it OK for all men to touch boys below the waist, or just coaches?

Well, I dunno about football cuz I have a girl in hockey.

In hockey its a smack on the top of their helmet (my daughter had a good game once and said she was afraid her coach was going to give her a headache), or, usually in the context of "ok, now go do it", a whack from the coaches' stick across their shin pads or their bum.

Context is everything.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 139
Men -- How we work
Posted: 12/1/2009 12:43:09 PM

So, In the vein that coach ron is using...that a little praise goes pretty far...when someone does something nice for you...you just ignore that somethings been done nice for you and move on to other topics.

That is NOT the vein coach Ron used, BTW. He said nothing about "doing something nice" for someone. Women DO thank men for "doing something nice". That's just silly to imply that they/we ignore the "nice" thing. UNLESS, you think a "nice" thing to do is something that is your responsibility and you want PRAISE for something you SHOULD be doing. THAT makes you childish.

OP said, "This idea about sharing your feelings is a misnomer. " (of course, I don't believe he meant that)
Then he said, "You would get more out of us by telling us what you do like about us rather than what you don't--imo."

So what coach Ron said is that instead of saying, "I hate it when you don't clean the dishes", women SHOULD say, "I love it when you clean the dishes for me." Then HE believes men will be more likely to do the dishes in the future--which is where his logic fails. What he doesn't know is that men will go to almost any length to avoid doing things they don't want to do. I once saw a guy drag a 400 lb tree-trunk across the campsite because he didn't want to stand for 15 minutes.
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 144
view profile
History
Men -- How we work
Posted: 12/1/2009 1:10:47 PM

If you did what we asked the first time...........there wouldn't be a need to ask it the second time. So put that on your list of "things to do for the week."


Did you finish all the things we asked you to do? Finish the honey do list that us men left for you?

Ohhhhhhhh wait, men don't DO that do they?

Hmmmz.

Remember, you are ASKING, if it isn't done the first time and you get angry, that wasn't much of a question was it? Sounds a hell of a lot more like telling.

I think Dr. Laura said it best, positive reinforcement DOES work with men, she advises that if you think your man did a good job, give him a bj.

She's crazy most of the time, but hell that would probably work on me, if I associate dishes with blowjobs? Hell i'm in.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 155
view profile
History
Men -- How we work
Posted: 12/1/2009 2:57:11 PM

Yeah, but would the dishes be done properly?

Now, I know it was in jest, but.

Once upon a time I was in a relationship with a fellow who was an anal clean freak. He used to follow along behind me and re-do the stuff I had done. He used to comment on whether or not what I had done was done properly. He used to give me all sorts of tips and advice on how I could do it better.

Guess what?

I quit doing. "Do it yourself, you're never satisfied with what I do anyway".

I figure anyone who wants to do a chore has just taken one more thing off of my list. I'm grateful. I don't care if I would have done it differently, or approached it in a different way or done it at a different time. They did it their way and guess what? It's done and I didn't have to do it!!!!

 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 156
Men -- How we work
Posted: 12/1/2009 3:01:01 PM
I know you're not a childish person, Margo, but this is a childish response:

Guess what?

I quit doing. "Do it yourself, you're never satisfied with what I do anyway".

Why not just say, "Look, stop micromanaging me. I don't like it, and it makes me want to stop doing anything!" I, too, hate control freaks. But I don't pout about it, I address the ACTUAL problem, which is their control, not how I do dishes!
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 157
view profile
History
Men -- How we work
Posted: 12/1/2009 3:04:02 PM
^^ Well, in my defense, it was a MUCH younger, way more childish Margo, LOL.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 162
view profile
History
Men -- How we work
Posted: 12/1/2009 3:30:31 PM
Eight pages of a redundant subject, and here I am adding to it like an igit. But I have to say, if a man doesn't know how to act, feel, be an adult and be in a relationship, then why the hell would I want to date him? I'm not his mother, it's not my job to either nag or teach him; we either match up well or we don't. If I pat a man on the butt, it's not to tell him he's a good boy....
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 168
view profile
History
Men -- How we work
Posted: 12/1/2009 4:07:32 PM

Somebody gave women some bum advice about communication. This idea about sharing your feelings is a misnomer. If a woman says, "Let's talk." We know right away its about us and what we're NOT doing or how we're doing _____ all wrong. Theoretically, by telling us, it should get fixed, right? Wrong...
It's NOT bum advice. It's what works when women communicate with WOMEN. Problem is that women think that just because 90% of women communicate the same way, that 90% of people communicate the same way. 90% of women communicate the same way. 90% of men communicate the same way, just totally different to how women communicate. FYI, men do the same with women.

Both sides need to realise that our culture is gender-related. Men are taught to communicate ONE way, and women are taught to communicate a different way. Men need to learn that when dealing with women, they will communicate more successfully by learning how women communicate, and imitating that. Women need to learn that when dealing with men, they will communicate more successfully by learning how men communicate, and imitating that.

What I AM sure of: when women talk, assume they just want to vent, and don't want any advice whatsoever. Just assume that whenever she opens her mouth, that it is the same as when coach balls you out because he's just had some bad news and needs someone to shout out, and just picks on you for the slightest little thing that he never ever thought was a problem.

IF she wants advice, she'll ASK for it, very, very specifically. THEN she wants it, short, sharp, to the point, and ONCE. She doesn't want to hear it again.


You guys just don't get it. If you did it the first time, we wouldn't have to nag.
I used to live with my sister as flat-mates. She used to nag that I didn't do the washing up. Never did it. Then one time, she asked me to wash up before a friend was coming for dinner. I didn't do it, as usual. Then she almost flipped. But her friend stopped her, and told her to just wait, and let me do it in my own time. I did. Then she complimented me on doing a good job. I thought I did a lousy job. But it made me feel that she wouldn't immediately condemn me for doing a lousy job. So next time, I was a little more motivated, and was a little bit quicker to act. She must have learned from it, because she kept on complimenting me every time. Over time, I got really, really good at doing the washing up, and was happy to do it. I'd even do it without being asked. Over a few months, she didn't do it anymore, because if there was any washing up to do, I would jump to do it, and I'd do such a good job of it, that she felt that it wasn't worth her doing it, even to pull her weight, because I was that good that she couldn't do any better.

Over the years, I've noticed that I'm exactly the same with bosses. Those bosses who compliment me when I do something right, and don't criticise me when I get things wrong, get a lot out of me, and really seem to feel that I'm a big asset. They even tell others that I'm a real asset, and came to rely on me heavily, as if I was far more competent than most people. The thing is, I'm not. I'm only competent with people who know how to handle me. With people who just run roughshod over my feelings, my confidence takes a nosedive, and I screw up so badly, that if I'm in that situation, I'd say get rid of me, because I could bring the whole company down.

Most guys don't seem to engender such extremes as I do. But the same sentiments seem to apply. Give them compliments about their work, and never criticise them, and they excel. Give them criticisms and don't compliment them, and they'll do it really badly.

That's not advice I'd give to women. That's advice I'd give to ANYONE who wants to motivate men.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 179
Men -- How we work
Posted: 12/1/2009 7:30:43 PM

It's called being independent, and self reliant. A lot of us do it 24/7.

I agree.
There are times, that one is not able to do everything, themselves.
Everyone understands that./quote]
I don't. At least when it comes to my life. I'd much rather never ask anyone for anything - so much easier to avoid all the feelings that go with it. So I go without if I have to to avoid it.

In my case, "she" is there for a much different reason than what tasks I can assign her that make my life easier. I don't expect my SO to be my gopher.
So, I don't harbour any resentment if she doesn't "do" stuff for me.
That's not her job, or purpose.

I do agree with that...on the rare occasions someone is around me for any length of time, it's because I enjoy their company.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 186
Men -- How we work
Posted: 12/3/2009 12:10:40 PM

Apparently in your little world he's there to service you.

Actually no, the point of my post and the subsequent post is that I'd rather shoot myself than ask a man do anything for me. Mostly because it's just easier to do for myself and I don't owe anyone for it. Guys keep missing that part of the post. Those who know me know that's my deal.

Unless you mean put out when I ask, in which case - you're right on the money.
 Cynderella
Joined: 3/8/2007
Msg: 190
view profile
History
Men -- How we work
Posted: 12/3/2009 12:43:15 PM
Could you /would you...pat on the ass /kick ass...nagging /talking...

Where do I go to school to sort out all this sh*t out/self-help book?
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 199
Men -- How we work
Posted: 12/7/2009 2:27:41 PM

I notice a huge difference between men who have never been married and
those who have had long term marriages in general, with the ones who have
been married knowing how to be not self centered and more able to act
like part of a couple.

I disagree - I have found divorced men to be fearful of women, have a sense of entitlement ie: "My wife didn't like sex/ she was frigid/ prove to me you're not". Actually I have found men who have been comfortably in LTRs to be very complacent about pleasing a woman and expect instant intimacy. I am not paying the price for another woman's perceived neglect.
 gentleplus
Joined: 9/8/2008
Msg: 201
view profile
History
Men -- How we work
Posted: 12/17/2009 8:20:47 AM
Savona..... You have described the difference between a partner and a parasite
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  >