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 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 8
MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax RevenuePage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

Well, I have seen it myself, many times, so the "may" for me is actually a "does." If you would like to refute first hand witness statements, drug tests


No one said it doesn't happen,,,,I just told ya the BIG words here are "heavy" and "may",,,,which means,,,,,,if you are HEAVYdope smoker you MAY start having mental problems. I say REALLY?????? No shiat sherlock. Get this one,,,if you are HEAVY drinker,,,,you MAY start having visions. Actually here's another one,,,,if you are HEAVY eater of fast foods,,,,you MAY get fat????? What you don't say is what percentages of dope smokers of general population you deal with. Problem is you can't,,,nor can anyone,,,,cause there are quite a few people that will not admit they have the occasional puff, because of this "reefer madness" that creeps up. "Many" doesn't give me much,,,other than "more than a few".


Find me a crack/meth abuser that never smoked weed before trying the harder drugs. Go ahead. Find me one. You find me anyone who tells you they never smoked dope but are addicted those drugs and I will find you a liar


I personally know 3. Two never even smoked a cig,,,let alone a doob. They started with coke,,,,cause they had money,,,and soon as that dried up,,,the fell "back" to crack. The other smoked cigs and drank his face off. Gave up the booze and went to meth. A herion addict I know never smoked, drank or whatever. When he finally gave up the shiat,,,he started smoking. I could give ya more examples,,,but a few of them never made it.

The other thing some of you should know,,,,cause I know a lot you don't "partake",,,,but some of the pot nowadays does have additives,,,,which "could" possibly part of the reason Annica sees what she sees. Do you do any "tests" on what those people are actually smoking Annica????? This is actually a serious question.
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 10
MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/3/2009 11:49:24 PM
Number of marijuana users according to a recent study by the Senate: Three Million
Number of reported marijuana offences in 1999: 35,000
Number of reported marijuana offences in 2001: 71,600
Annual number of reported arrests for offences covering all illegal drugs: 90,000
(70 per cent possession, 16 per cent trafficking, 13 per cent cultivation, one per cent importation)
Cost to The Canadian Tax Payer to house them each daily: $150.00
Estimated amount of Canadians who have actually committed the crime under the substance abuse act section 4 and have never faced charges: 18.5 million (Over 50% of the population)
Annual marijuana consumption: 770,000 kilograms
Annual cost of enforcing the marijuana laws for courts and police: $500 Million
Annual marijuana production: 2.6 Million Kilograms
Number of growing operations: 215,000
Number of people employed in marijuana growing: 500,000

You won't find those Stats in Singapore.
It's merely a Statement on an ineffective legal & justice System.
 magneeto
Joined: 2/10/2008
Msg: 11
MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/4/2009 12:57:16 AM
The government doesn't get involved with anything until they can make allot of money with it, first they have to make it addictive like alcohol and tobacco, then they'll take it over. And they'll need the americans O K otherwise the americans would be coming across the boarder to arrest and detain in the states canadian government employees, Which wouldn't look good.
And what about the millions of canadians who have suffered with controlling tough laws, wouldn't it now be wrongful prosecution , and pay them all back or what?
Lots of people can legally have and grow it yet are no sicker than you and I, And its there source of income. The excess they grow is bought by the government.

This is a spit in the bucket reason why all you government employees lawyers insurance people cops judges so called self proclaimed health care professionals and several other society leaches look bad

Lost tax revenues ? You can all go F*CK your government pay checks you scum bags.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 13
MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/4/2009 4:59:03 PM

Exactly... someone else had to buy it for them. Thanks for provng my point.
If they are not supplied the booze, either by bootlegger or irresponsible/indifferent parent/caregiver, the pipeline to availability stops.


Wanna bet???? I should get a 10 or 11 year old on here and let them tell ya a few stories. Generic/repeated comments from some over what is going on in today's drug world is quite funny to listen too. A lot of the children are NOT being offered the doobs anymore,,,well,,, not as much as crack(coke if they got the $$$),E, and meth. Doobs are sooooooooo "not in",,,,almost as much as booze is not so much anymore. The booze is their starter,,,until they puke,,,which is usually their first or second time drinkin. Then,,,,it's off to bigger and better things,,,,and it ain't green!!!! And it's happening wayyyyyyyy before that so-called "middle school"

Now,,,you may ask,,,,why is this????? Have you ever walked near someone having a "puff". Pretty sure you are looking for a dead animal on the road before you realize it's not black and white. Now,,,,anybody here know what crack smells like when the pipe is brought out????? Not so hard to hide at school,,,,along with meth. E????? Ya just got kids running around with something in their mouths looking for some lights and music. Really not so hard to hide from the majority of adults as illustrated here in this forum and others when conversing about the dreaded weed.

Education seems to be the key here. Some should really get "informed",,,,,and by more than one source I should add. I still have articles from the late 60's that I started collecting about this "reefer madness".(yeah I know,as did my parents,,,,that I was a little different at the age of 9) and some of the comments here take me back to that time. Honestly. Which scares the hell outta me,,,,,,really.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 16
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/5/2009 12:34:45 AM
These are the problems with any wish of legalizing marijuana:

1. Can you imagine how long it would take to cross the border into the United States. They are not going to change the laws there so they would get paranoid and search every car going south.
2. I am tired of people using alchohol as a reason to legalize pot. For one, you can have a drink of wine with dinner and that is that. It was only a beverage.
The only reason you smoke pot is to get stoned. You would never just take a drag.

3. Does everyone who smokes pot go on to other drugs, NO. But come on be realistic and admit that experimenting with pot and you figure out that it is not soo bad (if no one gave you laced pot), it makes it way easier to then turn to experimenting with other drugs like acid, which leads to other drugs and so on and so on.

4. OK, how many of you know some stoner teans. They are sooo productive aren't they. They do poorly in school and never seem to be able to motivate themselves to do anything other than go smoke pot at the park, bus loop (why i don't know, lol) or anywhere.

5. Yes smoking some pot isn't the end of the world and many people who have done a little pot smoking become great people but why would we want to bring more drugs into legalization when we seem to want to snuff out Smoking more and more everyday.

6. The illegal grow ops will continue as most of the pot is exported to the States and Organized crime will still be controlling this. Canadians smoking pot legally would not change this at all.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 19
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/5/2009 4:05:14 PM
[qoute]You never hear of anyone getting stoned and driving into a bleacher full of kids at a baseball game and killing them.

Common, tell me you have never scene a major traffic accident and the teen fell asleep at the wheel while stoned!! It happens way more than you think. The only problem is that there is not an on the spot devise to measure the levels.


Using Drunks as a reason to legalize pot? Come on come up with something better. No one condones Drunk idiots driving or beating on others and they should be prosecuted.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 20
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/5/2009 4:09:27 PM
[qoute]You never hear about a guy getting so stoned that he ends up in the hospital with weed poisoning.

When I was younger I was in the hospital from smoking weed. At a party we smoked a joint and the guys who brought it did not tell us it was laced with something called RUB so we smoked it as if it was a regular joint and all had very bad reactions to it and 3 of us did go to the hospital. The pot now is way stronger than it was back then so I am sure it happens even more.
 sileighty
Joined: 12/4/2008
Msg: 21
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/5/2009 5:12:02 PM
There is some generalizations and assumptions that should be cleared up here:
First I must introduce myself. I am 23 and have been regularly smoking pot since I was 16. Currently I smoke 3 or 4 times a day. Although to entertain myself, I have quiet for several month periods cold turkey at a time, I enjoy smoking pot and genuinely like the way it makes me feel. Some ladies have a wine after work, some guys have a beer after shift, some smoke manufactured cigarettes, I smoke a bowl.

I am living proof that marijuana is not a gateway drug. I have never tried any other illegal substance and I have had many many opportunities to. Drug dealers are the gateway to illegal substances. I buy from people that sell pot... not other substances. When you buy from a drug dealer as opposed to a pot dealer, its in their best interest to push other substances on you. They are salesmen after all.

I can easily, if I so choose, go for several month or even a year without smoking pot cold turkey. I have done this many times for work and other reasons but I enjoy smoking weed just like you enjoy your drink so I have no plan to quit.

Pot dealers are not always bad people, often quite the opposite. My most recent dealers are both students with a creative way to supply a demanded substance to their immediate friends and a means to pay off their tuition. The pot they buy is from growers looking for some extra money to put their own children through school and support their family.

If pot were legalized, the criminal element of it would be gone. With that element gone, we would stop seeing teenagers going to juvi and jail for possessing 1/8th ounce. Kids are having their futures stripped away for choosing a substance between the danger levels of coffee and liquor. Do you really want to know how much of your money is used to put intelligent young people in custody because they chose to smoke weed? Personally, I would rather see my tax dollars going towards keeping schools open that are currently facing closure, social programs for the homeless or other constructive causes.

The US is a perfect example for how poorly marijuana prohibition works. Ronald Regan started the war on 'Public Enemy #1' when he was in office with the creation of the DEA. What has changed since then? US prisons are totally full of mostly non violent first time offenders, their treasury is empty, marijuana use is higher by capita than Holland where it legal and trillions of dollars of their tax payers money has been wasted on a war that has only seen reverse progress.

I could talk about this forever, but basically: prohibition has proved itself that it is not the answer.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 23
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/6/2009 3:21:51 AM

The argument is that weed does less damage than booze so how can one be ok and one isn't.


Once again, lets explain this one. Alchohol can be consumed as only a beverage as most people do. (one glass of wine or one beer etc.) Pot cannot be smoked just as a cigarette. You only smoke pot for one purpose. To get high.
Secondly, Red wine and beer are proven to be heart healthy. One glass a day only though.
That is why Alchohol is legal and pot is not!!!!
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 24
MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/6/2009 5:46:13 AM

Once again, lets explain this one. Alchohol can be consumed as only a beverage as most people do. (one glass of wine or one beer etc.) Pot cannot be smoked just as a cigarette. You only smoke pot for one purpose. To get high.
Secondly, Red wine and beer are proven to be heart healthy. One glass a day only though.
That is why Alchohol is legal and pot is not!!!!



I was basically done with this thread,,,but I just gotta reply and question this school of thought.

When you say alcohol can only be consumed as a beverage,,,what does that mean???? Are you "sippin" for the taste,,,,,or the effects of the drink itself????? I would submit,,,it's the "effect".

When you say pot cannot be smoked as a cigarette,,,,what does that mean????? Are you smoking that cigarette for the taste,,,,,or the effect of the cigarette????? Again,,,,I submit,,,it's the "effect".

Repeat as needed for pot. The "effect" that I personally enjoy with the odd puff is relative and basically the same as someone sitting down for a couple of drinks to sip. (I do both,,,thus I can compare) Don't hurt my liver as much as my lungs,,,,but take a look at cigs before commenting. But,,,again,,,,get this. I don't do "wake and bake" first thing in the morning,,,,,just as I don't wake up and pour myself a drink. I can go days,weeks,,,,without a puff,,,,,and/or a sip. I know people that can not go without either,,,for more than a couple of hours a day.

All relative. If you are going to abuse or become addicted,,,,,you more than likely will,,,,,with something,,,illegal or not. That will happen unless you realize you have this personality and act on it. For those that enjoy the odd drink,,,you are just as guilty of "numbing down" your feelings,emotions,,,etc as someone that enjoys a puff. With the puff,,,,it doesn't take large quanities. With the booze,,,,after awhile,,,,you must increase to accomplish the same effect.

Again,,, I must repeat,,,it's the misinformation, which is misguided because of the history of "reefer madness",,,,that gets people lost in the confusion. Just as there is some people that should never touch a glass of alcohol,,,there are some that shouldn't inhale. (think people of low adrenalin) Then there are others who enjoy the puffs with the same effects as the person sitting down to a glass or two of wine at the end of the day.

The other point lost on most of us here in this discussion,,,is the effectivness of the "legality" of pot in today's society. As in,,,,what is the purpose of pot being "illegal". Is it to stop people from using it????? That isn't happening,,,,and will never happen. Or is it because of this false security that some have "believing" they are keeping a "gateway" drug outta the hands of those that shouldn't be using it. Again,,,,not happening by making it "illegal",,,,only self-education of the individual person will do that for those that are "addictive compulsive". Hiding booze from children in a household is NOT how you introduce your children alcohol,it's effects(good and bad),,and another example of what NOT to do. Open, HONEST, informed,educated facts are. Keep feeding the BS,,,,and you will never get anyone to listen except the followers,,,and those are NOT the ones you are targetting. Or,,,,,are you???????
 sileighty
Joined: 12/4/2008
Msg: 25
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/6/2009 12:01:36 PM
Mcalgary: I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt from your final statement about red wine and beer being healthy and presume that you aren't implying that pot is illegal in Canada because it has no medical value . I am sure you are aware of the odd thousand or so Canadians that can legally posses limited quantities for medical purposes, every thing from glaucoma, nausea, pain relief to even HIV.

I can assure you that the cannabis plant has infinitely more uses and potential to benefit the world than alcohol ever could. Do a little Google and Wiki search on the benefits of hemp and you will find that it has the potential to be one of the most beneficial plants to humanity ever.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 27
MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/6/2009 12:36:12 PM

Marijuana, on the other hand, is illegal because of its health risks.



Anddddd I guess that is why alcohol and cigs keep coming into the equation of this "legality" conversation/argument,,,,,isn't it????? If the so-called "health risks" are the major concern,,,,,,,then tell me why goverments do not believe in the same argument for the booze and cigs.

Nuttin to do with "health risks" but more to do with $$$$$$ and political influences. The "addiction" theory is exactley in the same boat when comparing "addiction" to pot as compared to the booze and cigs. Booze and cigs are wayyyyyyyyyy easier to become addicted,,,,which in turn is more $$$$$$$ in somebodies pocket. Think taxes here.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 29
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/6/2009 2:50:18 PM

Mcalgary: I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt from your final statement about red wine and beer being healthy and presume that you aren't implying that pot is illegal in Canada because it has no medical value . I am sure you are aware of the odd thousand or so Canadians that can legally posses limited quantities for medical purposes, every thing from glaucoma, nausea, pain relief to even HIV.

I can assure you that the cannabis plant has infinitely more uses and potential to benefit the world than alcohol ever could. Do a little Google and Wiki search on the benefits of hemp and you will find that it has the potential to be one of the most beneficial plants to humanity ever.


Of course I know of the positives of pot with certain medical conditions. That is why I support, and the Canadian Government supports, medicinal pot. It is already legal in those circumstances and can be bought at a pharmacy. As a previous poster already said hemp is different than pot there is no thc in hemp. You cannot smoke a hemp rope and get high, lol.

As for the other poster that said I have a glass of red wine for the effects?? I am 5ft 11 inches and 200 pounds so 1 glass has no effect. It is enjoyed, with dinner, purely for the taste and how is goes with the meal and I never have more than 1, normal sized, glass. I would rather drink milk or juice than drink large amounts of alchohol anyday and do not respect those individuals that do.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 30
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/6/2009 2:53:45 PM

I can assure you that the cannabis plant has infinitely more uses and potential to benefit the world than alcohol ever could. Do a little Google and Wiki search on the benefits of hemp and you will find that it has the potential to be one of the most beneficial plants to humanity ever.


The Poppy plant has more medical uses too but I doubt very many people would support legalizing opium. You can come up with much better reasons than that I am sure.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 31
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/7/2009 6:59:31 PM

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm...many different types of opiates from the opium poppy plant are legalized and in use.


Yes, you are right. It is legal for medical purposes. The same as pot. Hemp is legal in canada too. You can go on down to Mountain Equipment co-op and get a hemp rope if you would like.

But Opium (or the more refined version "heroin") obviously is not legal as a recreational drug.
 magneeto
Joined: 2/10/2008
Msg: 32
MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/10/2009 10:17:18 PM
good one annica, I love a girl with a sense of humour , as you can see my humour opinion guidance buttons are sticky.someone made a good point on the globe and m on how the cops and hells angles want to see it kept illegal both make more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I like lord moncktons aproachhttp://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_135.gif border=0>
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 33
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/10/2009 10:30:15 PM

good one annica, I love a girl with a sense of humour , as you can see my humour opinion guidance buttons are sticky.someone made a good point on the globe and m on how the cops and hells angles want to see it kept illegal both make more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I like lord moncktons aproachhttp://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_135.gif border=0>


Unless the US changes their laws as well (which they won't), the Hells Angels and any other criminal organizations will continue to pull in loads of money.
I don't mean to come across as totally antipot. I am not. I just wish the people wanting it legalized thought about the consequences of this happening when it comes to US-Canada relations and whether you will admit it or not we need the US for trade way more than they need us.
 sileighty
Joined: 12/4/2008
Msg: 34
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/11/2009 12:45:09 AM
mcalgary: So you say you have one glass of wine and also that you are not one to drink huge amounts of alcohol. So I ask, what makes you and I so different? I have periods where I smoke once a day or less and just enough to relax myself. I don't need to get ripped out of my tree or indulge so much I can't function. It seems hard for the public to accept that pot is enjoyed by most in a far less destructive manner than most over the counter prescription drugs or even alcohol.

Also, when I was suggesting research on the benefits of hemp legalization I was hoping that more than medical reasons would be found. Hemp can be used in the production of thousands of products. Watch this movie to find out just how much we need to legalize hemp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRysD6TuhHU

You are correct about Canada-US relations as a threat. Marijuana's legalization in Canada is a political threat more than anything else.

Gourmand123: I am having difficulty following your source but nonetheless, I begin with your first post:

In an earlier paragraph you state, "Unlike marijuana, hemp has many uses..." implying that marijuana is of little benefit. Although you contradict yourself slightly later on, touching on the medical benefits, this should be weighed in on more. On top of the medical benefits, I can think of many more: addicts kicking harder drugs like meth and coke; more jobs, tax revenue and public understanding and less non violent offenders in jail. This means less police needed and lower prison density which result in even more money saved for the government.

Later you say, "marijuana, on the other hand, is illegal because of its health risks." This can be viewed as a generalization, especially in the eyes of the 2,000 or so Canadians that can legally use it for health reasons. Let's be real here. Marijuana is illegal because of political pressure. It's illegal because if Canada legalized or even decriminalized it, the United States might follow through on threats they have already made to emulate the US-Mexico border on our side among other barriers in Canada-US trade. It's illegal because Ronald Regan declared war on drugs when he became president and created the DEA to fight that battle at whatever cost necessary. If a Canadian politician stands up for the Canadian tax payer that doesn't agree with spending more money on drug policies that have failed for over forty years than that politician runs the risk of having his opposition paint him as 'soft' on drugs. This just happened with Prime Minister Harper and the Conservatives calling the Libs 'soft' for the amendment to Bill C-15 so that we don't have someone with 6 plants for their own personal use going to prison for 10 years while the guy that stabs someone else in a drunken rage serves half the time or less.

Your final statement about marijuana is all too common among those that don't understand it. There is no argument in this paragraph, you simply state that environmental and economic reasons are cited in marijuana legalization which is much riskier than hemp. If pot is such a risk than where are the victims? Find me the people whose lives have been damaged by pot use. Look at how many destructive over the counter drugs are prescribed every day. How can you justify those, cigarette and alcohol use and condemn pot?

In your second post you take a more relaxed approach towards the matter, which is great to see. I would have to disagree with the cost issue though. Based on some of the economic benefits I listed earlier, I think that it is one of the most intelligent moves our government can make to set an example as an open creative country ready to embrace safe future resources. This would also set an example for other levels of government, both domestic and foreign, to stand up to US pressure on how to run their country.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 35
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/11/2009 9:13:48 AM

mcalgary: So you say you have one glass of wine and also that you are not one to drink huge amounts of alcohol. So I ask, what makes you and I so different? I have periods where I smoke once a day or less and just enough to relax myself. I don't need to get ripped out of my tree or indulge so much I can't function. It seems hard for the public to accept that pot is enjoyed by most in a far less destructive manner than most over the counter prescription drugs or even alcohol.


I really don't think we are all that different. I am really not against people smoking pot, but against the effects of a law legalizing it. Currently you can grow a couple (that means 2 not 200, lol) of plants for personal use with no problems as long as it is for personal use. Also you can carry a small amount (small joint) without any issues. It is, in all reality, legal now.

I go to the US quite a bit and know how much that border crossing would become a nightmare if we fully legalized it. Not to mention how it would effect all the trucks crossing it.
As far as I know, hemp is legal for many uses and medicinal pot is legal as well and available at any pharmacy with a prescription.

Lastly most people trying to support pot legalization or drunk driving are not like you and I and an occasional smoker or drinker. They are the ones camped out in front of the jail where Marc Emery (the loser who would not stand up to his convictions and fight his charges in the US if he believed he did nothing wrong, another thread could be made from this one, I am sure) is currently. That smoke up all day long sitting in their tent and blowing smoke at people passing by who don't support them. I do drive, or walk, by them every day.
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 42
MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/11/2009 9:23:21 PM
Marijuana is illegal because of political pressure.

Any Company has a legal Right to dismiss any Employee who fails a Drug Test. In most Cases, their Insurance requires it, and they don't buy into this "It's my Business" Non-sense as People under the Influence of Substances have their Judgment adversely affected, Response Time reduced, Attention Deficit, general lesser Awareness of Surroundings, Accident Proneness and a Host of other proven Maladies that simply are not suitable for a safe working Environment.

Even 2 Months after smoking Cannabis it's still detectable in your System, and makes you inelligible for any Number of Jobs in various Industries. It's a legal Issue, not in what you believe.

Go to the WCB Site ... they'll tell you all about it. Your Employer has the full legal Right at any Time to send you down to WCB for Drug Testing and dismiss you on the Spot if any Traces are found. You will never have any Job Security when you use restricted Substances such as Marijuana. WCB & the Insurance Industry won't have it, whether it's legalized or not.

As much as you hope certain restricted Substances will be legalized, that simply cannot happen here, it's too interdependent on other Legalities, be they medical, educational or Workplace related.

And even further, yet other Issues pertaining to Law Enforcement of both Sides of the Border would break that Long Term Relationship, forcing the U.S. to stop co-operating with the RCMP on many Levels, incl., forcing Thousands of Cases to be dropped by both Sides they have been working on for Years.

Currently, if you have been convicted in any Country for Drug related Charges, the U.S., as well as many other Countries, will not let you enter. When you decriminalize or legalize it in Canada, that System breaks down, and the U.S. will add further Restrictions & Red Tape for Entry. Law Enforcement breaks down, the legal System breaks down ...

Its not just a simple Matter of "Political Will". The Effects of such Legislation are Worldwide.

If a Canadian politician stands up for the Canadian tax payer that doesn't agree with spending more money on drug policies that have failed for over forty years than that politician runs the risk of having his opposition paint him as 'soft' on drugs.

If more Politicians started to grow some Balls and have any Drug Dealer executed and Users sent to labour Camp ... Problem solved. As long as they pussy-foot around with Probation, Community Work, 30 Day Stints ... that is the real Failure behind these Policies ... in the end they have no Teeth. No Policy or Law will work if the Punishment/Consequences do not deter.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 43
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/11/2009 11:43:36 PM
[QUOTE]Nothing is wrong with sparkling water.., nor is there anything wrong with de-alcoholized wine, or O'Douls. But tell me... how much does a bag of de-THCed pot go for these days? And does it burn smoothly?
Oh wait. If there's no THC in it you don't smoke it, you make ROPE out of it

Also. please point out where anyone here, other than yourself, is saying "alcohol is good, marijuana is bad".

Good Point!!

As for the guy saying that you cannot have one drink (I repeat ONE) just for the taste and enjoyment of the beverage. Of course you can. Maybe not if your under 100 pounds, you may not be able to but come on, be real.
I am so tired of this pot vs alchohol debate. It is what the person uses when they are out of ideas.
 masterfisher
Joined: 10/14/2008
Msg: 47
MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/16/2009 11:30:27 AM
I have read some of these posts not all of course but some .I myself have no problem with the weed.I feel that we the people should decide the policy in this country and our politicians should do what we want.let's have the old refeerendum on this change in policy that has been forced on we the people.Drugs are not going to go away period.Alcohol is not going to go away either or any other kind of drug that people take to dull the pain of everyday life. We the people decide what we are going to do in life maybe smoke a bit of grass ,drink a drink, take pills, shoot herione, smoke the crack and do any and all other types of self medicating things to ourselves to get by.Why shouldn't we be allowed to determine what we like to indulge ourselves in while we are alive.Sure there is the issue of addiction but we are all addicted to something or other. We can only help those that are having addiction problems and we don't do a very good job of that. Prohibition doesn't work.I say legalize it put a government run store beside my local liquor store so i only have to stop once on my way home.Hey and by the way Merry Christmas
 Corner GasGuy
Joined: 3/16/2009
Msg: 49
MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/16/2009 6:55:06 PM
The Ontario Court of Appeal thrashed a sentencing judge today for saying that sending people to jail in hopes of deterring marijuana offences is a form of insanity.

The appeal court said that Ontario Court Judge J. Elliott Allen has no right to misuse his judicial position to issue the sort of political “diatribe” that has no place in a courtroom.

“Judges are entitled to hold personal and political opinions as much as anyone else,” the Court said. “But they are not free to permit those views to colour or frame their trial and sentencing decisions. They are bound to apply the law as it stands.

“Personal diatribes of the nature engaged in by the sentencing judge here are unhelpful, however, and demonstrate to us a lack of objectivity that undermines the deference generally afforded to judges.”

Judge Allen expressed his views on Oct. 14, 2008, while sentencing Zeyu Song to a conditional sentence for producing 1,400 marijuana plants at a large-scale grow operation near Brampton, Ont.

Judge Elliott spoke at length about the fallacy of believing that harsh penalties for marijuana have any effect on its use and production.

“Nobody has been deterred,” he said. “People have been going to jail for drug offences for – for a couple of generations now and the drug – the drug plague is worse than it ever was ... If something doesn't work, do I try doing it again and again to see if it does work? Isn't that the definition of insanity?”

The judge noted that in the United States a huge number of people are serving life prison terms for growing or trafficking in modest amounts of marijuana, yet the drug is still easy to obtain.

“I am given to understand the chances of a Dutch teenager smoking marijuana are substantially lower than they are of an American teenager smoking marijuana – and the Dutch teenager can walk down to the corner and get it at a coffee shop,” Judge Allen added.

He remarked that even conservative think-tanks advocate dismantling the drug laws because they are merely, “giving the Hell's Angels several billion dollars worth of income every year, which is then turned into investments in what would otherwise be legitimate businesses.”

In their blistering response to Judge Allen's ruminations, Mr. Justice Michael Moldaver, Madam Justice Janet Simmons and Mr. Justice Robert Blair accused him of ignoring express instructions to avoid imposing conditional sentences for large grow operations.

“The sentencing judge's reasons make it clear – albeit in breezy and colourful fashion – that he personally has little use for a sentencing regime that seeks to cope with marijuana offences by relying upon principles of deterrence and by the imposition of ‘real' jail sentences,” the Court said.

They said that Judge Allen erroneously believed that his inherent power as a trial judge would prevent appellate courts from altering his decision.

“The sentencing judge turned the principle of deference on its head,” the appeal court said. “He treated it not as a recognition of his front line connection to the community and of his proximity to the dynamics of the proceeding, but rather as leave to impose with impunity a sentence based on his personal views of national drug policy.

“The principle of deference is not a license for the sentencing judge to defy settled jurisprudence, ignore the principles of the Criminal Code, or use his or her dais as a political podium.”

While the case called out for a jail sentence, the Court said that it was reluctant to impose a term of incarceration on Mr. Song since he has already completed his conditional sentence.

“In the end – without taking away from any of our observations above – we are not persuaded that it would serve the interests of justice to send Mr. Song to prison at this point,” the Court said.

Maybe Judge Allen enjoys a little 420 now and then? Meanwhile down in Seattle, B.C. drug dealer gets 30 years for trafficking in marijuana.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/gang-leader-sentenced-in-cross-border-smuggling-scheme/article1403128/
Edit: Posting information only. I do not use drugs or defend drug dealing of any kind.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 51
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/20/2009 11:52:02 PM

Pot should be legal. you free up the courts for other more important things,you get rid of the criminal element because there is no profit for them anymore thus freeing up police resources for real crimes such as rape,murder,assault etc, and plus we wipe out our national debt in no time from the taxation.


Once again, you only eliminate the criminal element if the US makes it legal as well (which they will not!!!). And you make crossing the border for all of the trucks and trains that cross everyday, doing business, a nightmare costing millions and millions of dollars and thousands of jobs. Whether we like it or not our economy is dependant on the US.

Look at the big picture people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
 kissmyasthma
Joined: 12/4/2009
Msg: 52
MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 7/23/2010 10:14:26 AM
Well then working too much and falling asleep at the wheel should be dealt with also.

Pot does not induce violence unless you're a****ead sober BUT alcohol will promote a greater loss of inhibitions and lead to violence way more often.

Seriously, it is the lack of good info that posters like ratherbgolfing are created.

I read the study on mental issues and what you won't see is the overall conclusion was that there would most likely have to be a predisposition for pot to have an influence.
Which means that a number of things could lead those very same people to mental instability, not just pot.

As demonstrated by the Emery fiasco, political deals that our current government and major traders ( imports and exports ) have in place are what is holding back real legislation.
Plus, it isn't hard to conceive that the major players in the pot industry itself have paid off the necessary officials to ensure their continued freedom to make fat stacks of cash so it is unlikely to get much support there.
It has to be the little average joe schmoe who pushes for change.
Current Gallup polls have public support for legalization at just over forty percent and California is the place to watch if any real change will occur.
There the State is seeing and actualizing a revenue stream already with about 13 other states watching their success.
If the US had any sense at all they would plant pot all over the south west because it would need less water or any pesticides, then put up as many wind turbines as possible.
Take the money out of the hands of the Mexican gangs and ease up the war on pot so the can focus on the harder stuff like meth, coke and heroin.
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