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 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 31
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax RevenuePage 3 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm...many different types of opiates from the opium poppy plant are legalized and in use.


Yes, you are right. It is legal for medical purposes. The same as pot. Hemp is legal in canada too. You can go on down to Mountain Equipment co-op and get a hemp rope if you would like.

But Opium (or the more refined version "heroin") obviously is not legal as a recreational drug.
 magneeto
Joined: 2/10/2008
Msg: 32
MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/10/2009 10:17:18 PM
good one annica, I love a girl with a sense of humour , as you can see my humour opinion guidance buttons are sticky.someone made a good point on the globe and m on how the cops and hells angles want to see it kept illegal both make more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I like lord moncktons aproachhttp://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_135.gif border=0>
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 33
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/10/2009 10:30:15 PM

good one annica, I love a girl with a sense of humour , as you can see my humour opinion guidance buttons are sticky.someone made a good point on the globe and m on how the cops and hells angles want to see it kept illegal both make more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I like lord moncktons aproachhttp://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_135.gif border=0>


Unless the US changes their laws as well (which they won't), the Hells Angels and any other criminal organizations will continue to pull in loads of money.
I don't mean to come across as totally antipot. I am not. I just wish the people wanting it legalized thought about the consequences of this happening when it comes to US-Canada relations and whether you will admit it or not we need the US for trade way more than they need us.
 sileighty
Joined: 12/4/2008
Msg: 34
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/11/2009 12:45:09 AM
mcalgary: So you say you have one glass of wine and also that you are not one to drink huge amounts of alcohol. So I ask, what makes you and I so different? I have periods where I smoke once a day or less and just enough to relax myself. I don't need to get ripped out of my tree or indulge so much I can't function. It seems hard for the public to accept that pot is enjoyed by most in a far less destructive manner than most over the counter prescription drugs or even alcohol.

Also, when I was suggesting research on the benefits of hemp legalization I was hoping that more than medical reasons would be found. Hemp can be used in the production of thousands of products. Watch this movie to find out just how much we need to legalize hemp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRysD6TuhHU

You are correct about Canada-US relations as a threat. Marijuana's legalization in Canada is a political threat more than anything else.

Gourmand123: I am having difficulty following your source but nonetheless, I begin with your first post:

In an earlier paragraph you state, "Unlike marijuana, hemp has many uses..." implying that marijuana is of little benefit. Although you contradict yourself slightly later on, touching on the medical benefits, this should be weighed in on more. On top of the medical benefits, I can think of many more: addicts kicking harder drugs like meth and coke; more jobs, tax revenue and public understanding and less non violent offenders in jail. This means less police needed and lower prison density which result in even more money saved for the government.

Later you say, "marijuana, on the other hand, is illegal because of its health risks." This can be viewed as a generalization, especially in the eyes of the 2,000 or so Canadians that can legally use it for health reasons. Let's be real here. Marijuana is illegal because of political pressure. It's illegal because if Canada legalized or even decriminalized it, the United States might follow through on threats they have already made to emulate the US-Mexico border on our side among other barriers in Canada-US trade. It's illegal because Ronald Regan declared war on drugs when he became president and created the DEA to fight that battle at whatever cost necessary. If a Canadian politician stands up for the Canadian tax payer that doesn't agree with spending more money on drug policies that have failed for over forty years than that politician runs the risk of having his opposition paint him as 'soft' on drugs. This just happened with Prime Minister Harper and the Conservatives calling the Libs 'soft' for the amendment to Bill C-15 so that we don't have someone with 6 plants for their own personal use going to prison for 10 years while the guy that stabs someone else in a drunken rage serves half the time or less.

Your final statement about marijuana is all too common among those that don't understand it. There is no argument in this paragraph, you simply state that environmental and economic reasons are cited in marijuana legalization which is much riskier than hemp. If pot is such a risk than where are the victims? Find me the people whose lives have been damaged by pot use. Look at how many destructive over the counter drugs are prescribed every day. How can you justify those, cigarette and alcohol use and condemn pot?

In your second post you take a more relaxed approach towards the matter, which is great to see. I would have to disagree with the cost issue though. Based on some of the economic benefits I listed earlier, I think that it is one of the most intelligent moves our government can make to set an example as an open creative country ready to embrace safe future resources. This would also set an example for other levels of government, both domestic and foreign, to stand up to US pressure on how to run their country.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 35
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/11/2009 9:13:48 AM

mcalgary: So you say you have one glass of wine and also that you are not one to drink huge amounts of alcohol. So I ask, what makes you and I so different? I have periods where I smoke once a day or less and just enough to relax myself. I don't need to get ripped out of my tree or indulge so much I can't function. It seems hard for the public to accept that pot is enjoyed by most in a far less destructive manner than most over the counter prescription drugs or even alcohol.


I really don't think we are all that different. I am really not against people smoking pot, but against the effects of a law legalizing it. Currently you can grow a couple (that means 2 not 200, lol) of plants for personal use with no problems as long as it is for personal use. Also you can carry a small amount (small joint) without any issues. It is, in all reality, legal now.

I go to the US quite a bit and know how much that border crossing would become a nightmare if we fully legalized it. Not to mention how it would effect all the trucks crossing it.
As far as I know, hemp is legal for many uses and medicinal pot is legal as well and available at any pharmacy with a prescription.

Lastly most people trying to support pot legalization or drunk driving are not like you and I and an occasional smoker or drinker. They are the ones camped out in front of the jail where Marc Emery (the loser who would not stand up to his convictions and fight his charges in the US if he believed he did nothing wrong, another thread could be made from this one, I am sure) is currently. That smoke up all day long sitting in their tent and blowing smoke at people passing by who don't support them. I do drive, or walk, by them every day.
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 42
MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/11/2009 9:23:21 PM
Marijuana is illegal because of political pressure.

Any Company has a legal Right to dismiss any Employee who fails a Drug Test. In most Cases, their Insurance requires it, and they don't buy into this "It's my Business" Non-sense as People under the Influence of Substances have their Judgment adversely affected, Response Time reduced, Attention Deficit, general lesser Awareness of Surroundings, Accident Proneness and a Host of other proven Maladies that simply are not suitable for a safe working Environment.

Even 2 Months after smoking Cannabis it's still detectable in your System, and makes you inelligible for any Number of Jobs in various Industries. It's a legal Issue, not in what you believe.

Go to the WCB Site ... they'll tell you all about it. Your Employer has the full legal Right at any Time to send you down to WCB for Drug Testing and dismiss you on the Spot if any Traces are found. You will never have any Job Security when you use restricted Substances such as Marijuana. WCB & the Insurance Industry won't have it, whether it's legalized or not.

As much as you hope certain restricted Substances will be legalized, that simply cannot happen here, it's too interdependent on other Legalities, be they medical, educational or Workplace related.

And even further, yet other Issues pertaining to Law Enforcement of both Sides of the Border would break that Long Term Relationship, forcing the U.S. to stop co-operating with the RCMP on many Levels, incl., forcing Thousands of Cases to be dropped by both Sides they have been working on for Years.

Currently, if you have been convicted in any Country for Drug related Charges, the U.S., as well as many other Countries, will not let you enter. When you decriminalize or legalize it in Canada, that System breaks down, and the U.S. will add further Restrictions & Red Tape for Entry. Law Enforcement breaks down, the legal System breaks down ...

Its not just a simple Matter of "Political Will". The Effects of such Legislation are Worldwide.

If a Canadian politician stands up for the Canadian tax payer that doesn't agree with spending more money on drug policies that have failed for over forty years than that politician runs the risk of having his opposition paint him as 'soft' on drugs.

If more Politicians started to grow some Balls and have any Drug Dealer executed and Users sent to labour Camp ... Problem solved. As long as they pussy-foot around with Probation, Community Work, 30 Day Stints ... that is the real Failure behind these Policies ... in the end they have no Teeth. No Policy or Law will work if the Punishment/Consequences do not deter.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 43
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/11/2009 11:43:36 PM
[QUOTE]Nothing is wrong with sparkling water.., nor is there anything wrong with de-alcoholized wine, or O'Douls. But tell me... how much does a bag of de-THCed pot go for these days? And does it burn smoothly?
Oh wait. If there's no THC in it you don't smoke it, you make ROPE out of it

Also. please point out where anyone here, other than yourself, is saying "alcohol is good, marijuana is bad".

Good Point!!

As for the guy saying that you cannot have one drink (I repeat ONE) just for the taste and enjoyment of the beverage. Of course you can. Maybe not if your under 100 pounds, you may not be able to but come on, be real.
I am so tired of this pot vs alchohol debate. It is what the person uses when they are out of ideas.
 masterfisher
Joined: 10/14/2008
Msg: 47
MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/16/2009 11:30:27 AM
I have read some of these posts not all of course but some .I myself have no problem with the weed.I feel that we the people should decide the policy in this country and our politicians should do what we want.let's have the old refeerendum on this change in policy that has been forced on we the people.Drugs are not going to go away period.Alcohol is not going to go away either or any other kind of drug that people take to dull the pain of everyday life. We the people decide what we are going to do in life maybe smoke a bit of grass ,drink a drink, take pills, shoot herione, smoke the crack and do any and all other types of self medicating things to ourselves to get by.Why shouldn't we be allowed to determine what we like to indulge ourselves in while we are alive.Sure there is the issue of addiction but we are all addicted to something or other. We can only help those that are having addiction problems and we don't do a very good job of that. Prohibition doesn't work.I say legalize it put a government run store beside my local liquor store so i only have to stop once on my way home.Hey and by the way Merry Christmas
 Corner GasGuy
Joined: 3/16/2009
Msg: 49
MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/16/2009 6:55:06 PM
The Ontario Court of Appeal thrashed a sentencing judge today for saying that sending people to jail in hopes of deterring marijuana offences is a form of insanity.

The appeal court said that Ontario Court Judge J. Elliott Allen has no right to misuse his judicial position to issue the sort of political “diatribe” that has no place in a courtroom.

“Judges are entitled to hold personal and political opinions as much as anyone else,” the Court said. “But they are not free to permit those views to colour or frame their trial and sentencing decisions. They are bound to apply the law as it stands.

“Personal diatribes of the nature engaged in by the sentencing judge here are unhelpful, however, and demonstrate to us a lack of objectivity that undermines the deference generally afforded to judges.”

Judge Allen expressed his views on Oct. 14, 2008, while sentencing Zeyu Song to a conditional sentence for producing 1,400 marijuana plants at a large-scale grow operation near Brampton, Ont.

Judge Elliott spoke at length about the fallacy of believing that harsh penalties for marijuana have any effect on its use and production.

“Nobody has been deterred,” he said. “People have been going to jail for drug offences for – for a couple of generations now and the drug – the drug plague is worse than it ever was ... If something doesn't work, do I try doing it again and again to see if it does work? Isn't that the definition of insanity?”

The judge noted that in the United States a huge number of people are serving life prison terms for growing or trafficking in modest amounts of marijuana, yet the drug is still easy to obtain.

“I am given to understand the chances of a Dutch teenager smoking marijuana are substantially lower than they are of an American teenager smoking marijuana – and the Dutch teenager can walk down to the corner and get it at a coffee shop,” Judge Allen added.

He remarked that even conservative think-tanks advocate dismantling the drug laws because they are merely, “giving the Hell's Angels several billion dollars worth of income every year, which is then turned into investments in what would otherwise be legitimate businesses.”

In their blistering response to Judge Allen's ruminations, Mr. Justice Michael Moldaver, Madam Justice Janet Simmons and Mr. Justice Robert Blair accused him of ignoring express instructions to avoid imposing conditional sentences for large grow operations.

“The sentencing judge's reasons make it clear – albeit in breezy and colourful fashion – that he personally has little use for a sentencing regime that seeks to cope with marijuana offences by relying upon principles of deterrence and by the imposition of ‘real' jail sentences,” the Court said.

They said that Judge Allen erroneously believed that his inherent power as a trial judge would prevent appellate courts from altering his decision.

“The sentencing judge turned the principle of deference on its head,” the appeal court said. “He treated it not as a recognition of his front line connection to the community and of his proximity to the dynamics of the proceeding, but rather as leave to impose with impunity a sentence based on his personal views of national drug policy.

“The principle of deference is not a license for the sentencing judge to defy settled jurisprudence, ignore the principles of the Criminal Code, or use his or her dais as a political podium.”

While the case called out for a jail sentence, the Court said that it was reluctant to impose a term of incarceration on Mr. Song since he has already completed his conditional sentence.

“In the end – without taking away from any of our observations above – we are not persuaded that it would serve the interests of justice to send Mr. Song to prison at this point,” the Court said.

Maybe Judge Allen enjoys a little 420 now and then? Meanwhile down in Seattle, B.C. drug dealer gets 30 years for trafficking in marijuana.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/gang-leader-sentenced-in-cross-border-smuggling-scheme/article1403128/
Edit: Posting information only. I do not use drugs or defend drug dealing of any kind.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 51
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MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 12/20/2009 11:52:02 PM

Pot should be legal. you free up the courts for other more important things,you get rid of the criminal element because there is no profit for them anymore thus freeing up police resources for real crimes such as rape,murder,assault etc, and plus we wipe out our national debt in no time from the taxation.


Once again, you only eliminate the criminal element if the US makes it legal as well (which they will not!!!). And you make crossing the border for all of the trucks and trains that cross everyday, doing business, a nightmare costing millions and millions of dollars and thousands of jobs. Whether we like it or not our economy is dependant on the US.

Look at the big picture people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
 kissmyasthma
Joined: 12/4/2009
Msg: 52
MARIJUANA IN CANADA • Lost Opportunity for Tax Revenue
Posted: 7/23/2010 10:14:26 AM
Well then working too much and falling asleep at the wheel should be dealt with also.

Pot does not induce violence unless you're a****ead sober BUT alcohol will promote a greater loss of inhibitions and lead to violence way more often.

Seriously, it is the lack of good info that posters like ratherbgolfing are created.

I read the study on mental issues and what you won't see is the overall conclusion was that there would most likely have to be a predisposition for pot to have an influence.
Which means that a number of things could lead those very same people to mental instability, not just pot.

As demonstrated by the Emery fiasco, political deals that our current government and major traders ( imports and exports ) have in place are what is holding back real legislation.
Plus, it isn't hard to conceive that the major players in the pot industry itself have paid off the necessary officials to ensure their continued freedom to make fat stacks of cash so it is unlikely to get much support there.
It has to be the little average joe schmoe who pushes for change.
Current Gallup polls have public support for legalization at just over forty percent and California is the place to watch if any real change will occur.
There the State is seeing and actualizing a revenue stream already with about 13 other states watching their success.
If the US had any sense at all they would plant pot all over the south west because it would need less water or any pesticides, then put up as many wind turbines as possible.
Take the money out of the hands of the Mexican gangs and ease up the war on pot so the can focus on the harder stuff like meth, coke and heroin.
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