Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Suffering is really just a catalyst for change      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 13
Suffering is really just a catalyst for changePage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

seriously I ask, who, or what, decides who gets the suffering?

We do. Some suffering is the unavoidable random suffering imposed by nature itself; some is self-imposed for any of a million "reasons" and some is the suffering we impose on others for our own self-serving reasons.
 AtomicGogol
Joined: 4/4/2008
Msg: 14
view profile
History
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/10/2009 3:22:50 PM
I liked your post, Ronnica, but I don't know if I totally agree. I'm on the fence...
I think suffering is defined as enduring pain, but I don't know if I'd agree that it's never getting through the pain. I think we've all suffered in our lives, and it definitely sucked, but I intuitively knew it would eventually end. However, I do agree with you that pain is a learning experience. It's also a lot better at teaching a lesson than feeling good can be. The sad thing about humanity is that we know that pain can do so much, and so we oftentimes bring pain to others to accomplish our goals. That can be physical, emotional or mental pain. I remember an interview with a Taliban fighter once, and he defended the use of hideous torture on prisoners. His logic was that in order to achieve their political goals, they couldn't just kill people. They had to inflict massive pain on these people to make others realize they meant business.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 15
view profile
History
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/10/2009 5:06:07 PM
your right, dukky, I think.

I meant from the op's view.
 bluezoot_riot
Joined: 5/21/2007
Msg: 16
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/10/2009 8:21:12 PM
The book of Job is a great book to read when you're suffering.

In a way Job can represent all of us, who always want to know the metaphysical "why" when we are afflicted. Job endured to the end and God redeemed him by giving him more than he had before. When we have endured the hardships, the green pasture seems greener, the air, brighter.
 BLUEMISS
Joined: 7/15/2007
Msg: 17
view profile
History
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/10/2009 9:58:25 PM
Winstons Dictionary... Suffer...
To feel or endure, bear up under, to experience all things, suffer change.

To permit,allowto feel pain, distress, loss or damage;as illness made his work suffer.

Suffering...the baring of physical or mental pain.

When we suffer it changes us and makes us the people we are supposed to be. When people we love die , we suffer. We don't ask for it,but we grow in spite of it.I believe death is a learning lesson for the living and the suffering is the lesson. When an ex died, it was one of the hardest times I had to go through in my life...the thoughts.. . the memories...the tears....but I got through it and I grew from it, big time!!!I believe it was a major learning experience in my life.

Being in a relationship that causes you to suffer, for whatever the reason; cheating, lack of affection, misunderstanding,fighting,abuse, infedelity, and the suffering that goes with it, is part of your life lesson. We don't choose to go through these things,but they happen. It's how we handle them that make the difference, and sometimes suffering is the only way. Not to say that you should dwell on your suffering and play the martyr!

So I agree that suffering is a catalyst for change, part of life.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 18
view profile
History
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/11/2009 9:09:39 PM
cause and effect, is what we have here, I believe.
 late™
Joined: 9/11/2009
Msg: 19
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/11/2009 9:25:07 PM
cause and effect, is what we have here, I believe.


I quite agree.


I have seen posters on this very board who have said that those people DESERVED their fate. Babies, children....DESERVING of their fate.

Part of me wants to damn these people to hell, then I realize that I'm an Atheist - YMMV -

Every time I see this thread in the S&P forum hierarchy; it registers as being about surfing, which is all about catching a bitchin' wave;
....and if you think about it for a second, the same goes for suffering.
 BLUEMISS
Joined: 7/15/2007
Msg: 20
view profile
History
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/12/2009 5:54:41 PM
OK. Kook... What the H... are you talking about? Do YOU even know? Woosyish...explain that, if you can, and please, Make Sense!
 Free-At-Last
Joined: 7/15/2009
Msg: 22
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/14/2009 12:51:29 PM

You may ask what is the purpose of this life on earth, why are we choosing experiences and why is suffering among those choices to experience and integrate?

Life is about choices. Your "purpose" is to play the cards you've been dealt...to the best of your ability. Sometimes "fate" deals you a real shitty hand.
So whatcha gonna do about it? Take it personal, give up, and believe that it's your destiny to suffer through life? Or do you perservere and rise above the situation and continue to play to the best of your ability?
 late™
Joined: 9/11/2009
Msg: 23
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/14/2009 1:04:30 PM
OK. Kook... What the H... are you talking about? Do YOU even know? Woosyish...explain that, if you can, and please, Make Sense!

Ad hominem epithets often reflect on those who employ them, aside from that, on to the aphorism:

Waves can be very destructive, over long periods of time they can even shape coastlines as they are inherently; violent things.

On a personal level, a big ocean wave crashing down on one can cause great suffering; or with learned skill, can be ridden out and enjoyed.

Much like life.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 24
view profile
History
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/14/2009 10:05:34 PM
except for the 2 year old kids that die in crap land on other continent, over there.
think he missed the wave.

I think 2 is middle age over there.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 25
view profile
History
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/16/2009 2:16:15 PM
even he can change his thinking.
if he won't change, he should not exist.

but, all in good time.
 BowdenK
Joined: 11/29/2009
Msg: 26
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/16/2009 2:34:31 PM
OP



Holographic universe source? Okay, okay. I'm sorry. Open mind and all that.

The only constant in our universe is change, so pretty much everything is a catalyst for change. So, I guess you're right! Cheers!
 Living Dharma
Joined: 10/16/2009
Msg: 27
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/17/2009 10:29:56 AM
When the mind/ego has a desire for something to be different than the way it actually is, there is suffering.

Perhaps suffering rather than being a catalyst for change is better viewed as a searchlight that illuminates our desires that are not in alignment with our present experience.

A simple way to end the suffering is to accept what is being experienced in the present moment as it is. Then it is possible to take action in the present to set events in motion to create change while not experiencing suffering.

This is the reason that 2 people in similar circumstances may not have the same experience. For instance, two people are diagnosed with a disease. One person suffers immensely while the other can remain happy, yet they are both experiencing the same disease.
 BowdenK
Joined: 11/29/2009
Msg: 28
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/17/2009 10:36:30 AM
That's buddhism, right? Can I just say I freaking love buddhism. I'm not a buddhist by any stretch of the imagination, but what I wouldn't give to live a month with the Dalai Lama. I've read books by him and watched interviews and he always makes me smile. Didn't the Chinese government claim he was causing civil unrest? I should read up on that... just doesn't seem like a civil unrest type o' fella. Poor Tibet.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 29
view profile
History
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/17/2009 3:57:52 PM
suffering because of accidents, is so you will be careful in the future, and avoid those situations if you can.

I'm sure there is all kinds of stuff to learn from emotional suffering too.

health suffering problems are from physical and mental imperfection, no?
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 30
view profile
History
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/18/2009 1:56:25 PM
tell the one year old child, as he looks at you with tear filled eyes, that his leukemia is all for a very good reason.

suffering good.?............nonsense my friend, utter nonsense.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 31
view profile
History
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/22/2009 1:46:30 PM
RE Msg: 28 by --Brightspark--:
... People that entertain the idea of a God (process) watching over us will never take on board the suffering. They've bricked up their minds to it. They ignore it or explain it away with toddler-like reasoning.

They choose to thank God for the 'rare' miracles and ignore the overwhelming unfairness of life...

One word?...

'Delusional'.
I look at things a different way. The mind is a powerful thing. It can make us survive when science tells us that no-one could survive. It can take away pain better than the most powerful drug in the world. But it only works when you believe that you will survive, when you believe that your suffering will go. It doesn't even matter what the reasoning is. It could be as delusion as believing that a mystical unicorn has taken away your pain. But that belief does take away people's suffering and gives them the strength to survive in impossibly difficult situations.

Mind you, it also works in reverse. My mother had severe asthma as a child. She spent a fair bit of time in hospitals. She told me that she used to see a lot of people go in to operations, and one thing she noticed, the downbeat ones didn't come out. That happened even with routine operations. So if you don't have a delusional reason to believe that you will survive, then there is a good chance that you won't, and if you don't have a delusional reason to believe that your pain will be taken away, then it won't either.

Personally, if I was a doctor, I would tell people to use the best medicine they have, the power that belief exerts upon their own minds.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 32
view profile
History
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/22/2009 6:42:46 PM
I have heard that horse crap before, we wouldn't know good if we didn't get some bad.

It would in my estimation, be a pretty retarded person who needs all the pain, or even some of the pain that is in this world, in order to see the good.

It sounds like there is thought to be some entity out 'there' that is causing all of the suffering in the world for our good.
 neil1888
Joined: 4/9/2009
Msg: 33
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/22/2009 8:08:21 PM
"The wise grieve neither for the living nor the dead. There has never been a time when you and I and the kings gathered here have not existed, nor will there be a time when we cease to exist. As the same person inhabits the body through childhood, youth, and old age, so too at the time of death he attains another body. The wise are not deluded by these changes."

"Those whore are not affected by these changes, who are alike in pleasure AND pain, are truly wise and fit for immortality. Assert your strength and realize this!"

"The impermanent has no reality; reality lies in the ETERNAL. Those who have seen the boundary between these two have attained the end of all knowledge. Realize that which pervades the universe and is indestructible, no power can affect this unchaninging, imperishable reality. The body is mortal, but he who dwells IN the body is IMMORTAL, and immeasurable. Therefore, fight in this battle, Arjuna."

"One man believes he is the slayer, another believes he is the slain. Both are ignorant; their is neither slayer nor slain. You were never born, you will never die. You have never changed, you can never change."

-The Bhagavad Gita
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 34
view profile
History
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/23/2009 10:35:03 PM
IF you are suffering, it CAN [should] be a catalyst for change.

there, I like that a lot better!
 SylvanSwan
Joined: 8/5/2008
Msg: 35
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/24/2009 6:26:45 AM

A happy-go-lucky surfer dude spokesmodel just isn't driving the message home.


I agree. This idea came from someone who isn't suffering and who seemed to be very blessed.

The idea is good, the messenger isn't driving home the message to me either.
 ea®ly
Joined: 11/7/2006
Msg: 36
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/24/2009 6:37:57 AM
This idea came from someone who isn't suffering and who seemed to be very blessed.


I beg to differ, I've probably had more "suffering" than most the last 5 years or so. I've been permanently disabled by a work injury, more than 7 surgeries, I've lost everything (literally) my home, most of my possessions, both my parents... much more.

When the wave crashes down on you, you either take the hit and drown, ...or you ride it out.

"isn't suffering"?

Not by a long shot, ...but I'm not letting it kill me.

Don't let suffering be a destination, let it be the impetus for the journey.

Ride the wave dudes and dudettes, ...don't let it crush you.
 SylvanSwan
Joined: 8/5/2008
Msg: 37
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/24/2009 12:12:18 PM
@ ea@ly:

I meant the OP seems to be blessed.....but nevertheless, the topic is a good one.

And I have been in "suffering" too. Unfortunately it is dynamic, subjective, and totally invisible. However, not a figment of my imagination, or what they call psychogenic in nature.

Has it been a catalyst for a change within myself? Oh yes indeed.

~Crazyhorse~
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Suffering is really just a catalyst for change