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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Suffering is really just a catalyst for change      Home login  
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 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 30
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Suffering is really just a catalyst for changePage 3 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
tell the one year old child, as he looks at you with tear filled eyes, that his leukemia is all for a very good reason.

suffering good.?............nonsense my friend, utter nonsense.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 31
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Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/22/2009 1:46:30 PM
RE Msg: 28 by --Brightspark--:
... People that entertain the idea of a God (process) watching over us will never take on board the suffering. They've bricked up their minds to it. They ignore it or explain it away with toddler-like reasoning.

They choose to thank God for the 'rare' miracles and ignore the overwhelming unfairness of life...

One word?...

'Delusional'.
I look at things a different way. The mind is a powerful thing. It can make us survive when science tells us that no-one could survive. It can take away pain better than the most powerful drug in the world. But it only works when you believe that you will survive, when you believe that your suffering will go. It doesn't even matter what the reasoning is. It could be as delusion as believing that a mystical unicorn has taken away your pain. But that belief does take away people's suffering and gives them the strength to survive in impossibly difficult situations.

Mind you, it also works in reverse. My mother had severe asthma as a child. She spent a fair bit of time in hospitals. She told me that she used to see a lot of people go in to operations, and one thing she noticed, the downbeat ones didn't come out. That happened even with routine operations. So if you don't have a delusional reason to believe that you will survive, then there is a good chance that you won't, and if you don't have a delusional reason to believe that your pain will be taken away, then it won't either.

Personally, if I was a doctor, I would tell people to use the best medicine they have, the power that belief exerts upon their own minds.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 32
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Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/22/2009 6:42:46 PM
I have heard that horse crap before, we wouldn't know good if we didn't get some bad.

It would in my estimation, be a pretty retarded person who needs all the pain, or even some of the pain that is in this world, in order to see the good.

It sounds like there is thought to be some entity out 'there' that is causing all of the suffering in the world for our good.
 neil1888
Joined: 4/9/2009
Msg: 33
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/22/2009 8:08:21 PM
"The wise grieve neither for the living nor the dead. There has never been a time when you and I and the kings gathered here have not existed, nor will there be a time when we cease to exist. As the same person inhabits the body through childhood, youth, and old age, so too at the time of death he attains another body. The wise are not deluded by these changes."

"Those whore are not affected by these changes, who are alike in pleasure AND pain, are truly wise and fit for immortality. Assert your strength and realize this!"

"The impermanent has no reality; reality lies in the ETERNAL. Those who have seen the boundary between these two have attained the end of all knowledge. Realize that which pervades the universe and is indestructible, no power can affect this unchaninging, imperishable reality. The body is mortal, but he who dwells IN the body is IMMORTAL, and immeasurable. Therefore, fight in this battle, Arjuna."

"One man believes he is the slayer, another believes he is the slain. Both are ignorant; their is neither slayer nor slain. You were never born, you will never die. You have never changed, you can never change."

-The Bhagavad Gita
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 34
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Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/23/2009 10:35:03 PM
IF you are suffering, it CAN [should] be a catalyst for change.

there, I like that a lot better!
 SylvanSwan
Joined: 8/5/2008
Msg: 35
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/24/2009 6:26:45 AM

A happy-go-lucky surfer dude spokesmodel just isn't driving the message home.


I agree. This idea came from someone who isn't suffering and who seemed to be very blessed.

The idea is good, the messenger isn't driving home the message to me either.
 ea┬«ly
Joined: 11/7/2006
Msg: 36
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/24/2009 6:37:57 AM
This idea came from someone who isn't suffering and who seemed to be very blessed.


I beg to differ, I've probably had more "suffering" than most the last 5 years or so. I've been permanently disabled by a work injury, more than 7 surgeries, I've lost everything (literally) my home, most of my possessions, both my parents... much more.

When the wave crashes down on you, you either take the hit and drown, ...or you ride it out.

"isn't suffering"?

Not by a long shot, ...but I'm not letting it kill me.

Don't let suffering be a destination, let it be the impetus for the journey.

Ride the wave dudes and dudettes, ...don't let it crush you.
 SylvanSwan
Joined: 8/5/2008
Msg: 37
Suffering is really just a catalyst for change
Posted: 12/24/2009 12:12:18 PM
@ ea@ly:

I meant the OP seems to be blessed.....but nevertheless, the topic is a good one.

And I have been in "suffering" too. Unfortunately it is dynamic, subjective, and totally invisible. However, not a figment of my imagination, or what they call psychogenic in nature.

Has it been a catalyst for a change within myself? Oh yes indeed.

~Crazyhorse~
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