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 AUTHOR
 ~DREAMS~
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 48
How do airplanes fly?Page 2 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)

Dreams,

I didn't get the videos of eagles you mentioned (the ones where the eagles blood heats the wings and then they get lift from the hot air that is in contact with their wings). If you know of any youtube or other video surely you can directly to an article on that.


they were not my videos to give. They were just in a report i studied from one of my old jobs and i am not granted access any longer. I will just leave that explanation as is.

however if you have the money and time enough to get one of those types of camera systems with a strong enough zoom lens I am sure you can see it you will just need to make sure you are ABOVE the eagle zoomed in on it with a good tracking system to keep it locked on to be able to see the effect.

I am not allowed in the scientific community anymore because I am a Christian and believe in God. Sorry I never did like that whole linking part making sure to put everyones names on things when the funding for the studies came from the american tax payers to begin with so i never understood why people that were not able to pay for their own research wanted to be recognized for anything. I am just the outcast basically...lol

doesn't really bother me anymore...
 acuddler
Joined: 10/30/2009
Msg: 50
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/15/2009 1:05:41 PM
The flight of a plane is a balance between thrust from engines, lift from air under the wings, drag from the friction of the air it is moving through, and falling due to gravity. If thrust weakens, lift weakens, and gravity takes over, causing a crash.
 EndlessLift
Joined: 12/6/2009
Msg: 52
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/16/2009 9:42:58 AM
Dreams,

I think I will dismiss your eagle claim as incorrect since it doesn't seem likely and there isn't anything you can point to with further explanation or analysis of it. I guess you could have misunderstood what the video you saw was as well.

I'm not sure I buy your statement that you're not allowed in the scientific community because you are a Christian.

EndlessLift
 ~DREAMS~
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 53
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/16/2009 3:13:10 PM

Dreams,

I think I will dismiss your eagle claim as incorrect since it doesn't seem likely and there isn't anything you can point to with further explanation or analysis of it. I guess you could have misunderstood what the video you saw was as well.

I'm not sure I buy your statement that you're not allowed in the scientific community because you are a Christian.

EndlessLift


That is the beauty of conversations.... we do not have to agree. we come from a different segment of society.

as for me not being allowed in the science community... just look at some of the things I write... I do not cite sources. I do not pat other scientists on the back. I develope my own understandings. I do not follow the rules and or boxes layed out within the scientific method.

Thus as such I am not allowed within their little circles.

I pray. I commune with nature. I listen to my inner compass and not what another human being tells me what to think... again counter productive to being accepted within those cicles.

My understanding of behaviour and the causes are often times a slap in the face to people such as sigman fraud

When I think and ponder I use both halves of my brain as well as my heart.... again a slap in the face to what scientists list as propper. They or at least most say use just the left side of your brain and only logic to base understanding upon.

in science there are leaders and followers that by following become leaders and leaders become followers.... it becomes a messy web bouncing back and forth which can only lead to chaos and a disconectedness as a people.

With no clear chain of command and no authority figure to look to for cues means disorder is assured.... It is enough to drive someone insane thus why I parted ways with that crowd of people... too much inner turmoil for me... everyone arguing all the time wanting their own thoughts to be correct and slapping down percieved facts that were nothing more than probability.

But again I say.... I am cool with that... we do not have to think alike.... everyone is different.... and I do not try to change you to bend to my way of thinking and simply avoid the back and forth bickering because all it does is cause conflict.

I may in fact be wrong in my observations and understandings... I personally would rather conceed to the ideal that there is a chance i may be wrong.... I am not perfect after all and I make mistakes in life...

The difference is My observations and opinions are not dependent on your agreeing with them... they are simply what I use in my life, and they work for me.

They unlock other understandings for me.

They allow me a chance to step out of the box every now and then because I do not have the same limits. Limits imposed by another human being or group of humans that have said... "Here are the boundries, now go and live within them"

go backwards through science far enough and you might be able to see that the pioneers themselves.. the very foundation and developers of science ALL said the same thing.... There are some things in this universe that science can never be used to understand.... maybe not those same words but same concepts...

and again you would likely be asking me to track down sources and cite them etc.

Scorpio is good at that... No offence scorp but it makes for very long posts that take up a lot of time to read and then even more time to follow up with even more reading.... The trouble with that process is whatever you choose to read becomes a part of you as a person even if you do not want it to...

I have no desire to act simply like a computer spitting out other peoples words.... I use my abstract thought and listen to my heart and develop MY OWN words. I don't regurgitake other peoples words.

If all you have is the words of others in your mouth then who are you as a person?

You are not a seperate person.... you simply become like the borg dipicted in shows like star trek. They are a race of beings that have nothing of their own... They are simply a collection of assimilated other beings and have nothing at all to define them as a race with the exception of their core function..... which is to take other peoples and turn them into their own by simply attatching other artificial things to the assimilated being most being controls and collective hive mentality.

In a nut shell..... you can have millions of beings all acting as a collective whole but if they are all living within the same list of parameters... all it takes is ONE person that can travel outside of those parameters to bring down the whole collective of like minds.

basically put.... Science is nice.. I love science... but it is a failure waiting to happen.

just my opinions.... Yours may be different... that is ok with me.... my opinions do not require you to agree with or even understand them... i only shared them as a way to open dialog to allow others to see how i think about things. If they ring within you are garbage then just ignore them... won't hurt my feelings... we are on different paths in life is all.... as such we would likely never cross paths in the real world so there is no requirement for you to think like me nor me like you.
 aaamm
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 54
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/16/2009 5:09:43 PM
Science is nice.. I love science... but it is a failure waiting to happen.
huh? What you know now you were taught by someone or learned in school. Lets face it they said that even those that have invented pumps took knowledge from people such as Egyptians. No science expert, but have enjoyed reading and trying to understand studies. Science doesn't fail, it is humans that are born to fail. It is what you learned from that failure and do with it that is important. Hey Orville...rip.

EDIT: Archimedes studied under followers of Euclid in Alexandria, Egypt, so excuse me if my assumption is that Egyptians knowledge was what led him to it...figured I better add that cause I am saying knowledge from, didn't say they actually did invent but I believe their knowledge led to his invention...Ok I feel better.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 55
view profile
History
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/16/2009 5:36:39 PM
RE Msg: 43 by Appreciative9809:
Scorpiomover, please don't tell me that you're a mathematician. What you're saying in the quote below sounds as if you're saying that you are speaking from the POV of a mathematician. Absolutely not. Mathematicians verify their assumptions before they expound on them. Mathematicians value precision, and proof of statements. We could debate whether or not you're adhering to those prinlciples, but, as I said, that would get nowhere, so don't take my word for it--ask your mathematics teachers. Or any mathematician(s).
Tough. I AM a mathematician. Do I need to show you my Honours degree? You might call it "cum laude".

Scorpiomover, I'm not talking to a mathematician when I talk to you.
Engineers always have a problem talking to mathematicians. That's because engineers always make assumptions that mathematicians never make.

Assumptions? As I said, you're most definitely making assumptions, and unlike a mathematician, putting them on the forum without checking them for accuracy.
I know whereof I speak. You might as well ask me to prove calculus. It's easy.

Your physical theories are entirely orignial. If you're right, then a lot of widely-accepted physics and mathematics is wrong. But,if you're going to revolutionize physics and mathematics, shouldn't you talk to a few physicists and mathematicians-- you know, just to get their opinion? If they disagree with your revolutionary new theories, and your entirely original view of physics and mathematics, then ask them for a brief explanation of what's wrong with your theories (of course they aren't going to have time for more than that).
It's not revolutionary at all. If you asked mathematicians, they'd tell you that you were taught the results, leaving most of the maths out.

No, you're not assuming what I've been taught. But you definitely are assuming some things. You're assuming things that no genuine mathematician or physicist ever taught or wrote.
Of course I'm not assuming things that you are. That's why you have the problem.

What physics courses have you taken? How did you do in those courses? Or are all the professors wrong too?
We were studying applied mathematics, what you'd consider the most precise of physics, when we were 14, in mechanics, ballistics, orbits of satellites, aerodynamics, hydrodynamics. A fair bit. Oh, and I did Physics A-level as well.

Well, it might require you taking a physics course. That would help.
Be a bit pointless, especially as my high-school physics teachers all had PhDs in physics.

If correct, your theories would dislodge not only my views but those of pretty much all physicists too.
Nope, only to low-level people, who never really studied things from first principles, like I was taught to do, and like mathematicians like Bernoulli were taught to do.

And, by the way, you refer to my age. I don't know how old you are, but there are crackpots of every age. There are a few people my age who sound like you. And there are people your age (whatever that is) who don't sound like you. (I didn't when I was your age).
There were a lot of people a few years older than me who sounded like you. They always had the same problem. They'd spout off what they were taught, and never tried to work it out for themselves. They were the ones who misunderstood the basis of what they had been taught. But, if someone was willing to argue with them until they were blue in the face, eventually, they'd realise that they were making assumptions, and then they shut up.
 ~DREAMS~
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 56
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/16/2009 6:07:34 PM

huh? What you know now you were taught by someone or learned in school.


I was kicked out of school in the 9th grade so no technically I did not learn the normal way....

you would likely think me a nut if i told you how i learn... but oh well i am sure many people already think I am a nut anyways...

When i am working through a problem... I pose questions to God... asking the why in life.

Then i pick up my bible. if it is a math problem i hold it in my left hand and use my right hand to fan the pages till it stops. The text within the bible verses on those pages when read applies to the problems I am questioning and my answers to the questions asked form as thoughts in my mind and I get clarity to understand resulting from what i have read through use of perception.

If it is not math related i use my other hand and again it always seems to answer the question and/or problem i am working on.

Sometimes I will just go for a walk and again pose questions and then POOF something within nature that I see,hear, or feel grants me a form of understanding.

I am not always correct. But things are correct far more than not correct and it results in exactly what i needed to know to continue with the problem or issue solved.

Does that make me crazy? maybe, maybe not... either way it does not matter to me.

it works for me...

likely too much info to have been shared within a open forum... But anyone who has read my text for any length of time would likely agree that i am a very open person that just says my mind at times.

I know not ALL scientists are the way that i described... I may have worded it wrong when i said science was a failure waiting to happen... what i meant was all that linking crap was the failure because if just ONE thing is wrong then anything else built upon it comes crumbling down when it is showed to be wrong.... As a result MANY people within those circles that are deep in with some of their bullshyt so to speak have literally killed people to protect the dazzling gold plated turd that has their names on them.

you would be surprized at some of the lengths some people will go through to protect their arogance.

That is the failure... because when one crucial foundation card is yanked out of the stack of cards ALL other cards built upon it have to come crumbling down as a result which means everyone else worked for NOTHING and has to then start all over...

Just imagine for a second how many things would have to change or be tossed out if something as small as say... the earth actully rotates around the moon was discovered.

i mean after all the side of the moon shown to the earth never changes however the earth spins like it is rotating and orbiting another celestial body IE the moon.

So go into the science books and take out everything dependent on people saying the moon rotates around the earth and of course then all the people would need to be labeled as liars that falsified any research dependent upon the lie that the moon rotates the earth and you can see what I meant....

Science fails because NOBODY would pull out those artificial foundation cards in the deck... they rather just keep building more lies upon other lies etc etc. and the deception gets deeper and deeper

So as I said.... that type of system IS a failure waiting to happen....because not ALL scientists are honest and when proven wrong they get violent and evil in actions to protect their reputations.....

SEE? failure built into the very system that was and is suppose to provide the people with TRUTH.
 EndlessLift
Joined: 12/6/2009
Msg: 57
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/17/2009 9:14:23 AM
Oh, I get it, you've not been shunned from the scientific community. You've just never been a part of it because you're not scientific.

Being scientific isn't a club with membership, it's just an approach.
 ~DREAMS~
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 58
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/17/2009 12:04:11 PM

Oh, I get it, you've not been shunned from the scientific community. You've just never been a part of it because you're not scientific.

Being scientific isn't a club with membership, it's just an approach.


Normally i would not attempt to change your mind but since your statement granted the perfect ability to enlighten i will.

You are correct I have never been a part of it in the NORMAL sense.

However as for it not being a club.... WRONG... it is EXACTLY a club... the membership fee is collage degree. The membership dues are your tuition fees. then you have to spend many years testing theory and claims of other higher up to offer them their recognition BEFORE you would be granted any money to work on your own..

HUMM sounds like a club thus far...

But wait there is more...

there are levels that people wish to reach within the club and the only way to reach those levels are with the sponsorship of several of members that are also higher up within the scientific community... no support from them results in no money being issued. No money issued means no funding to even be able to test your OWN thoughts and theory's.

because you can not be published... because the ones at the higher levels are in control of the very publications used to spread the word about discoveries... They also make the rules about what will or will not be accepted as far as topics, format, and even results.

simple fact that they want to maintain a measure of control over what is released so that they can keep control of the information.

But i tell you what... build your own space ship and go and sit on the moon or observe anything else that goes against what they have allowed to be released. like the earth rotating around the moon, and see how long you will survive...

You would never be allowed to land back on this planet.

AHHHH but being patient and building a small stealth remote operated vehicle that manages to be launched at the same time as some other launch and it goes un- noticed.

as it gradually alters its glide path and just hangs out in the stratosphere for awhile it becomes un noticed... then once eyes are looking elsewhere it sneaks out of the atmosphere and continues it path to the moon....

it then just sits there on the moon and observes the earth rotating around it while it is busy sending its data back down to a ground station... but of course radio waves are easy to track so can't send via radio signals so instead that remote vessle has to use its own custom morse code type communication using flashes of light which means unless you know the EXACT location the light flashes are coming from as well as what the flashes are meaning after being decoded then no group or person would have a clue about what data is being collected and transmited.

HUMMMM sounds like a bit of a bummer so far.

so a simple light collector mounted to a simple consumer based telescope offers enough range to be able to collect tiny flashes as small as a simple LED lamp mounted on a small remote operated vessle located on the surface of the moon.

Now the REAL question would be... WHO would you even give the data to? because you can not give it to the LIARS... they would likely just kill you to cover up their bullshyt.

You see sir... when you accept money from the science community you have to agree to report everything and allow them to decide what gets published... But if you do not take any of their money and use your own money... like say money collected from the sale of Gold so it is not even known to exist.... then nobody even knows you exist or that your own private funded space program is even out there in the world....

guess it would just go back to how smart someone is and who they look to for their wisdom and understanding.

Science requires proof yet if proof is supplied then the location becomes exposed and destruction is assured. Thus also means no other independent verification can take place because they control all the exits and they control all the MAJOR equipment that could be used....

but wait.... re read the post.... and the process that could be used for independent verification while remaining protected has also been supplied...

sure sounds like adhearing to the scientific method and correct approch to allow REAL independent review. no control by a group. no oversight by a specific collective that has agree to blind the masses for the sake of their own reputations and way of life which is to bleed people dry of their money for their OWN political and finacial goals and plans.

Got 10k and about 10,000 lbs of titainium laying around? if you do then you too can have your own remote controlled space ship capable of landing on the moon....



who would you choose to believe? someone that TOLD you what to believe or your OWN eyes and your OWN collected data?

I LOVE SCIENCE!

by the way.. the patent is expired on the SR-71 Skunkworks does not hold any further rights to it.
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 59
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/17/2009 12:21:44 PM
My dad always told me that air is a liquid. And I believe him yo. That's why hydrodynamics and aerodynamics are so similar. Flying and gliding through air is just like sliding across the surface of water on a wake board or water ski. You have far more pressure on the bottom of the board/wing than you do on the top.
 ~DREAMS~
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 61
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/18/2009 12:34:58 AM

When I was a kid and sat in my dad's plane. I would go voooom, vooooooom and nothing happened! Nothing happened till I figured out how to start them up.

Wings had nothing to do with it till it started to move. Airplanes fly when trust overcomes drag and lift overcomes gravity and lift isn't that big of a deal in some planes.


gotta love those older planes. I used love watching those old movies of the barnstormers that would actully turn the props by hand to start them up...

It is amazing how far technology has come since those days. Even in the 60's they would sometimes need to have big car engines to start some of the air craft. It is a wonder some times how something so advanced could be built back in the olden days yet something as primitive as things are sometimes are needed just to start them up.

It is a good thing that the new generations do not have the same limitations. With all the new HIGH torque low weight and size electric motors out there that can spin VERY high RPM's make starting easy as a button push.

I learned a lot in life from my grandfathers. One of my grandfathers was an interesting old chap... he used to like those old Christmas movies. I know stories are sometimes boring to read on forums but this one is kinda funny.

there was a movie where a kid would stick his tung on a wet cold pole and sure enough that tung would get stuck to it and be quite painful.

My grandfather made a contraption using a spring and a cam to show that as long as the tung just taps the pole it does not get stuck on it even if wet or frozen.

He was an odd old guy but taught me quite a bit. I sometimes use his lessons to help me figure out some hurdles i have from time to time.

I know i know a public forum is not the propper place for old family stories.. sorry
 ~DREAMS~
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 63
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/18/2009 12:05:58 PM

Dreams - your comments on the science 'club' may be more appropriate in other threads rather than one on how airplanes fly.
However, since you bring up the topic, perhaps do as a "scientist" may do and research a topic before coming up with uncorroborated statements. Googling famous amateur scientists would have been quite informative.


true enough that it may have not been what the topic started out as, but conversations tend to do that. When conversing to try to open dialog to understand anothers point of view sometimes small detours happen to sometimes explain how those views come about.

I was not talking about the small groups... true enough that they in fact do not operate within the same governing restrictions.... but with that they also do not have enough benifit.

It would be liken to asking a local amature radio group to develop a super computer.

The technology available, the funding available, and the political clout available just is not going to get it done because they can't develope a computer....

bad analogy but it kinda applies.

when you have one group or person that has no accountability matched up with another group or person that has a self imposed accountability, and then a third group or person that has accountability imposed by another group or person, which group is more likely to do whatever they damn well please?

The group or person that considers themselves as having no accountability at all. And the most restricted would be the group or person that has accountability imposed by another group or person because again most times it is the group that sees themselves as having no accountability that attempts to govern and dictate the actions, abilities, and outcomes of the others.

But i agree this thread has spiraled away from how airplanes fly so i will stop typing within it now. Sorry for my actions in causing the derailment.

so back to the question... How do airplanes fly?

Simple.... They have to be built then they can fly... simple as that... NOTHING can fly until it is built or it is nothing more than a paper air plane
 2findU
Joined: 11/19/2005
Msg: 64
view profile
History
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/18/2009 6:09:50 PM
Its called "Bernoulli's Principle". Just go to "How Stuff Works". But that pressure drop as the air speeds up over the wing's upper surface is called "lift". Which is the pressure differential from the top and bottom of the wing.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 65
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/19/2009 10:32:31 PM
Ah, the old Bernouli vs Newton creates wing lift debate. Why can't it be BOTH? Just because a flat wing works does not disprove Bernouli's theorem's relevance to the creation of lift. A flat wing just has to be tilted up more in relation to the oncoming air (higher angle of attack). It is often installed on the model plane with an appreciable angle of attack (angle of incidence).

The oncoming air STILL has to travel a greater distance over the top of a flat wing when it has enough angle of attack-- and it needs enough angle of attack to create lift. This is how ALL wings are able to fly upside down, too, btw. One could make a barn door fly with enough thrust and the needed angle of attack.

Some good references on the subject:

For the pilot/layman-- "Stick and Rudder" by Wolfgang Langeweische
For the real depth-- even transonic and supersonic concepts-- "Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators"
 ~DREAMS~
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 67
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/20/2009 2:27:32 AM

Good for you... Now start thumbing through the pages... Keep looking; it's in there somewhere...

I'm not gonna give you chapter and verse; that would be cheating...

With diligence and perseverance you may soon discover it:

"Maintain thy airspeed, lest the ground rise up and smite thee."...


And your point was what? Do you even know what is in the bible? It is written in layers. In computer terms... textual compression.

But you have already made up your mind.... Your heart and mind is not open which results in not seeing it.

But that is not on the topic... I stated what i said to support the conversation with endlesslift.

Your statement offers nothing but a smartazz comment.... Do you feel better now?

Searching up all threads having to do with things like religion and the bible and getting your hate out?

The religion forums are still active on this site they are just not in the list anymore.... I lost my link to them when I reloaded my computer... ( forgot to transfer my favorites) wish I still had it to offer you... You could have a blast over there from the few posts I have read of yours.. maybe scorp still has it if he is still following this thread...
 A1_GOLD
Joined: 5/6/2009
Msg: 68
view profile
History
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/20/2009 5:28:00 AM
In the US and most other countries only if your licensed, inspected, certified and have filed a proper flight plan.. If you tried to fly an airplane without all that you face going to jail for a long time and a stiff fine too.
 ~DREAMS~
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 69
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/20/2009 5:56:26 AM

In the US and most other countries only if your licensed, inspected, certified and have filed a proper flight plan.. If you tried to fly an airplane without all that you face going to jail for a long time and a stiff fine too.


Those rules do not apply to remote control airplanes though do they?

Isn't that only the piloted crafts
 2findU
Joined: 11/19/2005
Msg: 71
view profile
History
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/21/2009 3:25:50 PM

Ah, the old Bernouli vs Newton creates wing lift debate. Why can't it be BOTH? Just because a flat wing works does not disprove Bernouli's theorem's relevance to the creation of lift. A flat wing just has to be tilted up more in relation to the oncoming air (higher angle of attack). It is often installed on the model plane with an appreciable angle of attack (angle of incidence).

The oncoming air STILL has to travel a greater distance over the top of a flat wing when it has enough angle of attack-- and it needs enough angle of attack to create lift. This is how ALL wings are able to fly upside down, too, btw. One could make a barn door fly with enough thrust and the needed angle of attack.


In fact if you have ever seen R/C model planes many of the non-scale planes have horizontal and vertical stabilizers that are flat and not airfoil shaped. Frankly, enough horsepower and speed will get anything airborne. That's why race cars have to invert their "lift" into downforce.
 A1_GOLD
Joined: 5/6/2009
Msg: 72
view profile
History
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/22/2009 1:35:33 PM


I dont know if ultra lights qualify as an airplane but you can build one and not need a civilian aviators certificate and fly one


LOL!!!

OK, OK,
I was told that airplanes fly because of Archimedes Principle. Just like a cork in a glass of water an airplane floats up in dense air. It simply works for every possible scenario.
When the air has a density less than the flying object, it falls. Works the same with hot air balloons, gas filled balloons, helicopters, airplanes, gliders, birds, insects and lifting bodies.
Use any other principle of physics, the forces don't add up, it sounds like magic is applied.
EUREKA!

Here, try it out;
The air passing over the airplanes wing got so dense the airplane began to float up in it.
The air around the balloon was denser so he balloon floated up.
The propellers made the air much denser so the helicopter floated up.
It's so easy!

javascript:smilie('')
 aaamm
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 73
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/22/2009 9:00:55 PM
Ok, so do the reindeer legs and feet act like propellers? I don't think Santa's sleigh is to aerodynamic. But maybe his sleigh is more like a hydroplane.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 74
view profile
History
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/22/2009 9:27:42 PM
santa operates in a different dimension, or how could he deliver all that cra, I mean stuff in a few hours?
 A1_GOLD
Joined: 5/6/2009
Msg: 80
view profile
History
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/29/2009 7:43:15 PM

Who told you that? Archimedes' principle doesn't keep airplanes up. Aerodynamic lift is completely different from bouyancy. Airplanes are known as heavier-than-air craft, and that distinguishes them from balloons.


Finally somebody read my post!
OK smart guy, you don't get off so easily.
My explanation covers planes flying sideways and upside down, can yours?
If you find my explanation so difficult to believe explain yours to me.
One condition: You may not use Bernoulli, using Bernoulli a Piper Cub would have to travel well over 400 miles an hour at takeoff to get enough lift to become airborne. I can offer citations explaining why Bernoulli fails if you wish.
I would offer a second condition, cite the Newtonian Laws you are using, you don't have to but it would earn my respect.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 82
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/30/2009 2:40:31 PM

My explanation covers planes flying sideways and upside down, can yours?
If you find my explanation so difficult to believe explain yours to me.
One condition: You may not use Bernoulli, using Bernoulli a Piper Cub would have to travel well over 400 miles an hour at takeoff to get enough lift to become airborne. I can offer citations explaining why Bernoulli fails if you wish.
I would offer a second condition, cite the Newtonian Laws you are using, you don't have to but it would earn my respect.

As has been said, your explanation does not cover airplanes at all. As has been said, it rather covers lighter than air craft (helium balloons, hot air ballongs, blimps, dirigibles).

Put simply, an aircraft airfoil accelerates air and deflects it downward. Using Newton's third law of motion, that downward flow causes an upward force on the airfoil-- lift.

Airplane sideways: now the aircraft fuselage is acting as an airfoil and is deflecting air downward. Note how aircraft flying sideways are tilted up (high angle of attack), and they cannot fly this way very well at all (inefficient airfoil).

Airplane upside down: while less efficient (the degree of inefficiency depends upon the airfoil shape and angle of incidence), the wing will still create lift through a positive angle of attack, which deflects air downwards.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 84
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 12/30/2009 5:34:50 PM

Dozens of ducted fan, tilt rotor, tilt wing etc.

Actually, these all utilize airfoils and produce aerodynamic lift, so it is not so much peripheral to the topic as it is redundant.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 85
How do airplanes fly?
Posted: 1/1/2010 12:21:27 AM
Do airplanes fly with a wing and a prayer. Airplanes are an illusion wrapped in an enigma, flushed out by a shortage of nothing short of being a wondrous rush in the way we travel. Will that do.
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