Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Super_Eve
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 34
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?Page 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
@ Paul (with much respect)


On one hand you say that each individual is unique and individual, and on the other you like life as drop of water in the ocean.


While I cannot speak for Dukky, I can speak for I interpret the metaphor.

I saw the it from a holonomic view..."the sum of the whole can be found in its individual parts".

Looking at it from this perspective, is what keeps it from being an oxymoron...


Dude, put the bong down, this is not the conversation of the whole universe being in the speck of dust on your fingertip.


I don't smoke pot. Do you? No? Then we have something in common...so we can go from there...again, it is a metaphor.


I didn't say that I was better than others, just DIFFERENT and UNIQUE.


As we all are...yet still a part, of a whole...
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 35
view profile
History
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/15/2009 9:48:31 PM
I've seen this type of question asked by theists toward atheists a lot and I always found it ironic and hypocritical.

The thing is, the transitory part of life makes it MORE precious, more valuable, and more deserving of respect. As an atheist I see each moment in this wondrous existence as a gift. If I believed in an afterlife (and I will admit that there may be one) then that would greatly diminish the value of this existence. Instead of the wondrous beauty that I appreciate now, believing in some kind of heaven would lower this reality to merely being an unimportant stepping stone that has rudely stepped in my way of the existence I really yearn for.

how do you justify basic regard for life? Your own as well as anyone or anything else’s?
and this question I've heard lots before and I always found it ironic as well because the person asking it never treated people with respect because of their worth as human beings, they did so because they selfishly expected reward and/or feared punishment in the afterlife.

I have tremendous respect for people because I see an inherent dignity and worth that people have based on their human experience. I do not need to believe that some magical spiritual entity or god cares about them in order to give them worth, because they already have it. The bad thing about religion and morality is that it gives people bad reasons to help other human beings when good reasons are available.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 36
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/15/2009 10:55:53 PM
The very best question. Except for the fact that nobody thinks they will die. It takes about fifty years to realize that you will indeed die. Before this fact sinks in, it is all talk, talk, talk. Life is precious, life is a gift and of course there is something that happens after you die. More life. Maybe not yours as an individual but something of you will remain in what follows.What goes around, comes around applies to anybody who set foot on this indescribable planet. Live the best you can.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 37
view profile
History
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/16/2009 2:50:03 AM
In the 2004 movie " Troy ", Brad Pitt as Achilles spoke a line which was very pertinent to this question.

It was that the Gods envied humans because of our mortality.
Because all humans knew they would eventually die, it made each moment of life more focused and beautiful.

The conviction that there is no after life brings a greater respect for life, not less.
A life which never ends has little value.

Perhaps that's why those people in the Judeo/Christian/Muslim tradition, who are convinced of the immortality of their own soul, are so eager to send other people to the hereafter.
 BowdenK
Joined: 11/29/2009
Msg: 38
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/16/2009 7:38:16 AM
garry1949

Thanks so much for your response. I actually hold a great deal of respect for the faithful and those who approach impossibilities. They bring attention to concepts and considerations that otherwise would be ignored.

However, I am a man of doubt. Faith and doubt, in my opinion, must walk hand-in-hand to find new ways. I do not believe in truth, and I believe that every question has a million right answers and it is our perspective that chooses the one(s) best fitting to our own lives. I believe in fact, but even fact has infinite answer progressions: The apple falls --> the apple falls because of gravity --> the earth spins --> the earth spins because of gravity and magnetism --> the galaxy flies outward and into itself --> because of exerted force and gravity --> gravity is dominant --> because singularities are a force of gravity and no force can escape (or perhaps escapes so quickly as to avoid detection)... that is a linear path of the infinite potential of every one answer... Off the subject but related, have you ever looked into the Galaxy Clock Theory? According to the theory, universe expansion may be a result of singularity energy exersion rather than an explosive force, like a whirly firework. I found it just the other day in a strange presentation over evidence of alien life. I know there's no way to test it... well, I think. I haven't looked into it much. Just food for thought. You can find the presentation on google with a search for NASA UFO evidence or something similar. Dan Akroyd helped fund and introduced the presentation... haha. Gotta love that man.

Anywho. Good to meet ya.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 40
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/16/2009 7:00:58 PM

I have asked for an honest justification for respect for life and the best anyone so far has been able to answer with was, “Why not?”

That was better than my answer?...I'll admit I might be a tad biased, but I thought I did better than that!... maybe I shouldn't answer questions after so many beers?...

Enlighten me then. What is the bigger picture?

Hey, I gave it my best shot and you missed it, not only that, but you thought "Why not?" was a better answer than mine, so I don't think I'll try to elaborate in terms you might understand. I have a feeling I'd be spinning my wheels and not getting anywhere...again.
Besides...you bruised my ego & hurt my itty bitty feelings!...Just wait'll "Chopper" hears about this!
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 41
view profile
History
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/16/2009 7:44:15 PM
op, you got a bunch of platitudes, and you don't like them.
well, keep looking.
 BowdenK
Joined: 11/29/2009
Msg: 42
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/16/2009 7:49:05 PM

That reminds me of learning about the primordial soup in elementary science


I wonder what primordial soup tasted like. Is that still on the menu? Anyone know how to brew up some primordial soup? No sperm jokes.
 AtomicGogol
Joined: 4/4/2008
Msg: 43
view profile
History
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/16/2009 8:27:18 PM
I admire anyone who thinks to pose such questions, but I find it unfortunate when the questions are worded as if the answers are already known. For something as profound as the value of life, there really is no right answer, so to argue it is pointless.
I personally think human life and personality are precious things, but I can't PROVE that they're precious. I actually just had a conversation with a buddy about how life is pointless suffering and anxiety. This isn't the same as the OP which says that life ends at death. In both cases though, I think the logic goes like this, or it does for me when I'm depressed:
Life is pointless or irrelevant, thus death is inconsequential. So suicide is a must.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 44
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/16/2009 8:33:40 PM
Subject: If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Message: To clarify something here. This post wasn’t mean as something to convert people to any specific way of thinking or to depress anyone. It was a legitimate existential curiosity about something that affects everyone. I was just wondering how much thought the average person had ever really put into this.


Well after a little more thought I would say it boils down to
respect for "now" rather than a respect for life.

If you missed the last "now" how many chances will you get to respect the next "now"

I don't feel a need to justify it. It is a choice and I am prepared to accept the consequences.

Edit There is always potential in the "now"
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 45
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/16/2009 9:22:47 PM

Anyone know how to brew up some primordial soup?

Yeah...it's mostly just a broth of fatty acids...kinda salty...It goes really well with stone-ground bread and a cup of pre-columbian coffee.
 Super_Eve
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 46
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/16/2009 10:26:37 PM
And I will make an appetizer, an entree, thank you guys so much for bringing the soup, I am baking a nice pie, as we speak, and whether or not there is or isn't a life after death, you all are welcome to come over for dinner. There is a metaphorical philosophy, within this invitation...
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 47
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/16/2009 10:35:31 PM

And I will make an appetizer...

Take my word for it...You don't need to make an appetizer...You're appetizing as it is!

whether or not there is or isn't a life after death, you all are welcome to come over for dinner

There seems to some disagreement among us as to whether or not we'd be able to accept your kind invitation after the post-mortem. Best to invite us over while we're still breathing....Got any beer?...
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 48
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/17/2009 11:33:23 PM
Life can actually be very hard. Life can send people to ending their own lives. Life can be brutal, short and meaningless. Life is the ultimate test to your endurance. Life is not what latte you prefer. Life is frankly one breath after another and then...the construction. Some constructions are fine and some are very bad and then there is the in between. How do you teach respect for Life? You have parents who are not cursed. You have the blessing of what is beyond what you understand. Yep.
 MichelleRenee1234
Joined: 10/19/2009
Msg: 49
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/18/2009 1:46:24 PM

Getting off point. I don't believe in life after death, and it fills me with panic, sometimes.


Funny... I'm more afraid of the something than the nothing. Only the something holds a possibility of the realization of being dead, or having died. If there is no life after death, there's nothing to fear but the death itself, and when that's finished, there's nothing left at all... Sounds good to me, lol.

And I agree with SaharaM... sounds like the OP has a very sad perspective of life. Is a beautiful sunrise no less beautiful because it's come and gone and will never be duplicated? Or is it a fleeting moment to be appreciated? Is an orgasm not pleasurable just because it doesn't go on forever? On the other hand, would an orgasm be pleasurable if it did?

I agree that it's an objects' rarity that makes it more valuble.

At any rate, we're here (from what I can tell) and I hope everyone finds or creates something to value in there life.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 50
view profile
History
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/18/2009 4:13:51 PM
Trying to turn the Golden Rule into rocket science or a religious pissing contest is really futile, or just lazy.

Respect is given and returned. Most often, respect for other lives is self-serving in having that respect returned. It only makes sense, that the fewer enemies one generates, the more personal resources can be diverted to self-sustenance, pursuit of happiness, and freedom from fear. It's all about basic biological needs and genetics. Religions have killed far more people than biological realities and group survival skills. IMHO, religions have stymied respect for life, for personal liberty and evolutionary advances as a species. There is a vast divide between religions and spirituality as well as human nature, that has gotten us this far. It will be the religious, sans spirituality and humility and humanity, that will bring on the nuclear holocaust. That will not be biological, but illogical and based on something less civilized than the way our perceived "simplest animals" and other predators that fill their niches.

I've been a stranger in a strange land for most of my life thus far, a yankee in the south, survived shotguns and other weapons to the face, talked reason to testosterone, survived thus far, and still believe, we have some serious evolution to accomplish if we are to become citizens of the universe.

I don't believe that surviving as a species has anything to do with perceptions of power, but rather more to do with perceptions of allowing equality with others. But...for the power pundits...I remain armed and......Peace on Earth. Bless ya'll.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 51
view profile
History
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/18/2009 6:33:30 PM
the point that is always missed, is that, even if ALL RELIGION WAS FALSE, [almost all is!] evolution STILL has no credibility.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 53
view profile
History
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/22/2009 5:20:10 PM
NPR today did an intriguing piece on Baboons, that suddenly and without warning, shut off their tribal cacophony for 5 minutes, to stare into the water silently as a tribe. The observer noted that perhaps we are not the only spiritually inclined species. It was as if their whole family unit went into their sabbath. Would love to hear other explanations.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121713610

PS..this question has been asked for tens of thousands of years. A hundred years ago...Eugene Debbs tried to come to terms with it.

"Now my friends, I am opposed to the system of society in which we live today, not because I lack the natural equipment to do for myself but because I am not satisfied to make myself comfortable knowing that there are thousands of my fellow men who suffer for the barest necessities of life. We were taught under the old ethic that man's business on this earth was to look out for himself. That was the ethic of the jungle; the ethic of the wild beast. Take care of yourself, no matter what may become of your fellow man. Thousands of years ago the question was asked; ''Am I my brother's keeper?'' That question has never yet been answered in a way that is satisfactory to civilized society.

Yes, I am my brother's keeper. I am under a moral obligation to him that is inspired, not by any maudlin sentimentality but by the higher duty I owe myself. What would you think me if I were capable of seating myself at a table and gorging myself with food and saw about me the children of my fellow beings starving to death." - Eugene V. Debs: - 1908 speech
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 54
view profile
History
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 12/22/2009 5:43:31 PM
perhaps it is again time to ask, how does spirituality fit with evolution?
 GGarbo
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 56
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 1/18/2010 3:05:46 PM
I'm an atheist but feel I have purpose and my existence is not meaningless. Nature is far too logical of a system to allow the completely useless to exist.

I am comprised of energy which NEVER dies regardless of what you believe. What happens due that, I don't know and neither does anyone else but I know I live in a system. I don't know the purpose of this system nor the cycles it goes through but I do know there is a reason for it because nature is a logical system.

This "nature of things" has been around before the existence of the planet earth so why would I think that something as small as me could comprehend all the reasons? Nature, through trial and error, has been perfecting its systems since probably prior to the big bang.

My connection to these beliefs would never let me contemplate suicide. It's like saying that I'm dropping out of the universe simply because I don't know my the role nature has bestowed upon me and us as a species.

It's arrogant to think we are that far advanced we are supposed to know these things.
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 58
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 1/18/2010 3:47:09 PM

respect for life-
all life
no eating meat


One little quibble...

If you're going to respect ALL life, then you're going to have to stop eating plants as well... and a diet of stones isn't all that nutritious.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 62
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 1/18/2010 4:02:29 PM
Conversely, how does a respect for life necessitate a belief in life after death? Edisto's point is well taken. However, I'm sure there are sociopathic atheists just as there sociopathic theists. Neither is particularly mutually exclusive.

We cannot at present prove objectively an existence in some kind of "life after death." Personally, I hope there is one. But that doesn't mean I don't respect life.

Of course, I do like a tasty piece of cow from time to time. As a member of the other PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals, my motto is that there is a place for all creatures. Generally between the peas and the mashed potatoes.

 ea®ly
Joined: 11/7/2006
Msg: 63
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 1/18/2010 4:06:56 PM
consciousness is in fact a manifestation of energy

Energy is one facet of consciousness, there are others.
It must become something else or be reused.

Some things stay the same.
So in that sense if when we die the energy that was our percepted reality becomes one with the universe again

It always was.
so in that sense we could be disrupting a balance.

This reminds me of the FSM reasoning that pirates are responsible for global weather stability.

More than 99% of life is extinct, there's no evidence that "we" (as collective as you want "we" to be) get more than one kick at the can.

Making ...just being alive - precious and rare.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 64
view profile
History
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 1/18/2010 4:09:13 PM
rococco

I don't trust mans definition of a just war, so the last just war would be when god still bothered to talk to us directly.
That would be the old testament times, yes?

Must be some sadness in the heavens when we do our own everyday destructive stuff on earth, including murders etc, but imagine the grimacing and groaning going on with the world wars and mass slaughtering going on even today.

So why doesn't this god stop it? EDIT, this is kind of a rhetorical question, but not really.
god is not involved in this world today, [spiritually is another topic] is that not obvious?
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 65
If there is no life after death, how do you justify respect for life?
Posted: 1/18/2010 6:30:58 PM
edisto...

Why is it a lame argument? If ALL life is respected, then doesn't that include plant life?

And *please* don't accuse me of being illiterate, simply because I ask an off-the-wall question...
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  >