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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > A good friend of mine died last week....      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 26
A good friend of mine died last week....Page 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
Einstein said something like (paraphrased) "Beyond the limits of our perception are entire worlds of which we are unaware."

My personal opinion is that our "essence" is just a phenomenon caused by chemical interactions in the brain. Once the brain stops functioning, the phenomenon, and us, ends.
 andy510
Joined: 1/1/2010
Msg: 27
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/6/2010 10:25:40 AM
I went and I participated in my ex wife funeral on December 19, 2009 .
I was born Muslim and she was a devoted Roman Catholic .
We divorced many years ago . She kept her faith but I pushed my faith in the toilet due to my experiences in life .
I came to the conclusion that all religions are man made .
There is no life after life meaning there will be no hell and no heaven .
Also I realized a long time ago that this world is full of contradictions and is very complex . If there is a God ( creator ) then I am terribly angry with him as he allowed all this injustice, pain, suffering......etc to happen while he could stop it .
 LeCutter
Joined: 2/25/2009
Msg: 28
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/6/2010 5:41:18 PM

I remember the first time I decided to end my life in this world! I had had enough.


It's good that you didn't. I'd never tell anyone not to kill themselves, or that suicide is wrong, but it just seems a great waste to me. Life is short enough as it is. And as the old expression goes, "Sometimes you're flush and sometimes you're bust, and when you're up, it's never as good as it seems, and when you're down, you never think you'll be up again, but life goes on." I think we've all been down to a point where we've considered topping ourselves at one point, but when I think of all I would have missed I'm sure glad I didn't when I felt like that.


I went and I participated in my ex wife funeral on December 19, 2009 .
I was born Muslim and she was a devoted Roman Catholic .
We divorced many years ago . She kept her faith but I pushed my faith in the toilet due to my experiences in life .
I came to the conclusion that all religions are man made .
There is no life after life meaning there will be no hell and no heaven .
Also I realized a long time ago that this world is full of contradictions and is very complex . If there is a God ( creator ) then I am terribly angry with him as he allowed all this injustice, pain, suffering......etc to happen while he could stop it .


Yes, religion is jive, but for a lot of people they NEED it. They simply don't have the strength to go on without it, and the reality is we all need our crutches whether it's religion, booze, sex, drugs, etc. Listening to the priest ramble on - my pal's family is heavy Polish Catholic - about him being with Jesus in Heaven and so on, I just sat there shaking my head wanting to pipe up, 'You obviously didn't know the guy you're talking about, because he thought it was all jive too!'

Forget the arguements about god and free will, and remember that your suffering is a measure of your love. I've known people who have died that I didn't know or care about, and I certainly didn't suffer for it. Those who I did know and love? I suffer greatly. We should be grateful for this pain. We need it. How else would you know how much you loved someone and will miss them? There is no sweet without the bitter. It's all Yin and Yang.

I don't require immoratality. It's enough for me that if I was to die tomorrow to know that I led a good life, and that I touched a great many people along the way who will miss the hell out of me, as I would them. We all value our sucesses, but how many of us value our failures? Again, how else to measure the positive things without having the negative things to measure them against? It's good to lose the religion, but it's good to keep the faith, so to speak. If there is a god/gods, they're not quite the **stards we hold them up to be when things go wrong. Suffering, while never something we want to endure, is a gift nonetheless.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 29
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/6/2010 11:35:06 PM

I don't know the last time any of you have been to a funeral of someone really close to you, but it certainly changes your perspective - not to mention makes you irrational. Now while I've always considered myself a fairly rational, educated agnostic, it's been a long while since I've seen death up close and personal as well. At the viewing as I looked at my friend in his casket, my first thought was that whatever it was that made him who he was was definitely gone. The face and body were familiar but there was zero trace of what made him who he was. I recall looking at this shell, and thinking, that's not him. Where has that energy gone? If energy is niether created nor destroyed than the animus of what made him who he was must have moved on to something else, right? Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I cannot imagine that this man, who was larger than life, is simply gone into nothing.

I'm so sorry OP. (The above speaks to me. I've wondered for a while how it was I knew that cremation was the answer when my son died. The smile-from-within was gone, the shine in the eyes no longer was there. Seemed SO wrong to let anyone see him that way.) And like you stated, the Celebration of Life was skewed with stuff that he simply would have NEVER agreed with. It was sort of humorous in hindsight. How much he would have rolled his eyes at a good portion of the things people pushed on other people that day.

So is it? Is this all that we are? Is there nothing more? For all that we know, there is so much more that we don't. I refuse to believe there isn't more. Not that any of the religions have it right, but there must be more.

Oh, there is more. Once you figure out what your version of "more" is, this might make more sense to you. I used to be so fearful of death (my own and others) ~ until I found my own comfort zone when thinking in terms of my own mortality. Once I figured out what I truly think about death/dying/after-life ~ it makes it easier to deal with the losses we'll encounter while here. I hope you find some peace on the subject, it's really agonizing ~ the "whys".
 andy510
Joined: 1/1/2010
Msg: 30
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/7/2010 7:53:53 AM
Although most people if not all people are scared and worried about death; I see death as a very peaceful act in itself . Did you notice how peaceful and innocent a dead person looks ?. Once the person is dead and does not feel anything, I think there is only peace in them .
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 31
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/7/2010 8:07:43 AM

Although most people if not all people are scared and worried about death; I see death as a very peaceful act in itself . Did you notice how peaceful and innocent a dead person looks ?. Once the person is dead and does not feel anything, I think there is only peace in them .


Death is a peaceful "act"? How about "state of being"?

I know what you mean though. Right before my buddy died of drugs last year, he had been coming over and was restless, itching all over, and had anxiety and pain. He had a lot of mental and physical anguish that he had to deal with everyday due to the drugs and his health problems. When I saw him in his coffin, he was finally asleep and in peace. At least death can be beneficial in that it prevents further suffering.
 ryanrucker
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 32
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/7/2010 11:31:02 AM
aahhhh (sigh)

yes i death is the final moment of peace, if you are not afraid of going to hell.

i am not suicidal by any means, but I welcome will welcome death with open arms. (once i feel I have accomplish all I am here too.

I crashed my motorcycle and although it was insanely painful and 'graphic', ( ya know, bones sticking out everywhere!) once i had lost enough blood that i went into shock, everything became extremely bright, calm, clear and peaceful. During the helicopter ride I slipped out of consciousness and it wasn't until my family arrived at the hospital I stabilized.

Death and the Sun are the only 'constants' in life.
 thepleasantt
Joined: 12/27/2009
Msg: 33
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/7/2010 2:29:31 PM
I think the fear of death has more to do with the dying than being dead, and the fear of the unknown. There are unfortunately a minority of people who go out without any pain. Knowing your body is breaking down and getting ready to end can be frightening for even the strongest person.

As to funerals : I sat down once to write out what I thought should happen at my funeral, but I got no further than a few words before I realized my funeral isn't for me, it's for the people left behind. It's a way for people to grieve, let go and touch the reality that the person really is gone.

Lecutter - I've heard this story a lot - someone who doesn't believe ends up having a religious ceremony because other family members were part of a church, or maybe they were once and stopped going. Some of my older relatives decided they didn't want a funeral at all, perhaps for this reason, since they were atheists. It might be wise for those with religious relatives to organize a ceremony in advance that does not involve this element.

I've watched all of my relatives deal with grief and what is most fascinating is how differently people deal with death - and how sensitive they get about wanting to deal with it in their own way. The problem is when they think their way is better than another. Different cultures deal with it differently as well - some people really need to see the dead body in order to come to terms with the person being gone, others can't stand to see it. Some like to be together to mourn, others like to be alone. Some like to get rid of anything that will remind them of the person, others cherish every small thing left behind. In the grieving stage, it really is the dead who are the luckiest! They don't have to deal with all of the confusion.

The only thing I could come up with at funeral would be to play "All my tears' by Emmylou Harris.
"It don't matter where you bury me, I'll be home and I'll be free. It don't matter where I lay, all my tears be washed away."
 Super_Eve
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 34
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/7/2010 2:43:16 PM

Did you notice how peaceful and innocent a dead person looks ?.


That is after they have been embalmed. I have seen lots of dead people, right after they died, (and no, I am not talking about ghosts). Most people struggle with their last breath, and it is often etched on their faces, a frozen moment, that quite frankly, freaks me out.
 ryanrucker
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 35
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/7/2010 6:43:10 PM
''Did you notice how peaceful and innocent a dead person looks ?.''


mtnwldflower........i must agree with you here.

I have witnessed two deaths in the past few years and I can't say either was peaceful.
The first Aaron James Gray........was killed in the front yard (shot at fourteen times while sitting in a car unarmed) by police officers........extremely uncalled for in my opinion.

The second was last Febuary, while still on crutches, I hobbled down to the dock to collect my thoughts, when I noticed Johnny Wayne Anderson slumped over in his fishing boat, at first glance I thought the man was wetting his hair. A few seconds later (after barely missing the the dock) he crashed his boat into the bank and he fell into the water. He expired before I could get could get to him. I did my best to give revive him. Had I not had two broken legs his chances of survival would have been much greater. I will never forget his face or his breath........very freaky RIP my friends.
 thepleasantt
Joined: 12/27/2009
Msg: 36
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/7/2010 7:16:38 PM
^ that is why monks spend their whole lives preparing for death - so they can go out peacefully and consciously. A feat so difficult it would take that long to practice.
 Super_Eve
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 37
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/7/2010 7:36:06 PM

^ that is why monks spend their whole lives preparing for death - so they can go out peacefully and consciously.


You don't know if they go out "peacefully", or "consciously". No one does. Death is probably, one of the most private experiences, a person may undergo. A lifetime spent in "preparation", does not guarantee success.

I have seen the death of a bhakti. They might be considered to be, the equivalent of a Buddhist monk...still...the same struggle, that I have seen many times. The "peace", that people might be perceiving, might be projective.


I know this guy who's best buddy suspended himself from the ceiling in the flat they shared and left his mortal coil.


Okay. So I now know this guy, who knows this guy, who's best buddy...

I, by all means, should discount my own personal experience, so that I may indulge in hearsay...

Allrighty then.
 andy510
Joined: 1/1/2010
Msg: 38
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/10/2010 8:36:01 AM
We all know that we are all going to die one day . However it is better to be remembered for our kindness, caring, love and justice instead of nastiness, tyranny and bullying . Is science going to be able to prolong our lives for hundreds of years in the future ?. This is for another thread .
 foreveryoung898
Joined: 10/7/2009
Msg: 39
view profile
History
BOOKS
Posted: 1/11/2010 4:24:52 PM
Have you read Embraced by the Light By Betty Eddie and her two following books? Also there's another one, Saved by the Light. Interesting read
 andy510
Joined: 1/1/2010
Msg: 40
BOOKS
Posted: 1/11/2010 5:27:26 PM
No I did not .
I am so busy these days . I am lucky if I read a newspaper or a magazine .
 LeCutter
Joined: 2/25/2009
Msg: 41
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/14/2010 12:48:58 AM
Thanks man! You seem more positive today. Tell me, has this thread helped you deal with your grief?


Absolutely. It's been really positive. It was a bad week last week though. My buddy was supposed to turn 30 last week. We were supposed to go out and rip it up for that. Man, 30, and not making it. Just too damn soon, you know?

Verygreeneyez, thanks for sharing, and I'm sorry as hell about your boy. I really am. I'm only glad in that respect I don't have kids, because I can't imagine having to bury a child of mine. I'm pretty sure I'd lose it entirely if that were the case. I really don't know how those who do manage to cope with it. It was like talking with my bud's dad at the funeral. I just reminded him how much his son loved and respected him and that the many people at the funeral - and it was large - were a symbol of how many lives he touched and how many people loved him. I hope that carries him through. And I hope it's the same for you.

As for the rest? As the old expression goes - suicide excepted - one may not choose the time or manner of one's dying, but they may choose how they face it. Now, I realize that's easier said than done, but as I stated previously, the few times I really thought that I was going to die, I was pretty damn calm and peaceful about the whole thing. I really thought, 'Far out, so this is how I go out. Who woulda thunk it?' Only to come to later - in a great deal of pain - to realize that I was still amongst the living.

We can all envision all manner of horrific ways of dying and be terrified by them, and rightly so. But it's in those absolute final moments - if you're aware - wherein the difference lay. I certainly hope that all of us has a peaceful and pain-free death that we can meet head on with dignity and even some curiosity. Oddly enough, I've always firmly believed I'll die in a plane crash. Always. Probably won't be the case, but it'd be damn weird if it comes true.

It seems a shame that we all have the same weaknesses and fears, yet have such a hard time connecting with other people, whether it be due to our foibles, theirs, or a combination of both. I've spent most of my life alone and I'm good with that. And it's not because I lack any social graces, looks, smarts, etc that many people find hard. In fact it's quite the opposite. I make friends as easy as most people breathe. Well, I should say acquaintances, because I'm very selective of who I call friend. Same with lovers. I suppose it's because I'm an 'all-or-nothing' sort of guy when it comes to relationships however.

I've never dated, simply because I've never believed in it. I've had four loves in my 42 years on this planet, and each and everyone of those women was the "Thunderbolt" - as our Italian friends say - from the very beginning. I knew we'd end up together - at least for a while. I just don't get people dating and saying 'Well, I guess we seem sympatico, so let's hang out and see what happens.' It seems to me that most people are far more afraid of being alone, and latch onto anything halfway decent than waiting for a real love to come along. Hell, maybe they're just luckier than we are, but when the divorce rate is almost 50% and general couples spliting up even higher, I doubt it.

I suppose it's probably why more of us gravitate to a place like POF where we don't expect any real results. And this forum in particular attracts so many like-minded people who get that. But at least we can commiserate together and connect here as people, if only virtually. Yet, for the good conversation and fun this forum provides, it's infinitely better than just yapping with random strangers at a bar or something.

You're all good people, you know that? And this has been such an ass-wiping bad decade - and it has when you consider it, 9/11, Dubya, a few wars, collapsed global economy, etc. - let's just hope 2010 ends on an upswing. Then again, 2012 may be the end of it all. Well, in that case I guess we won't have to worry about finding a lover or anything else for that matter, LOL!

Keep on keepin' on, brothers and sisters. I have nothing but fond wishes for y'all.

Yr. pal
The Cutter
 Dreamerxoxoxo
Joined: 3/2/2006
Msg: 42
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/14/2010 11:40:51 AM
msg #48>Did you notice how peaceful and innocent a dead person looks ?


That is after they have been embalmed. I have seen lots of dead people, right after they died, (and no, I am not talking about ghosts). Most people struggle with their last breath, and it is often etched on their faces, a frozen moment, that quite frankly, freaks me out.


Oh I feel blessed that wasn't my experience while being with my loved ones as they passed - in separate instances. My mom died of small cell cancer. By the time we found out she was already in stage 4 she refused any type of treatment and wanted to spend her last days at home. She lived 4 more months and I was with her when she passed. I was amazed at how calm it was. She just stopped breathing... I looked at her face and it was flawless... no lines, no expression of pain. She looked so peaceful. Her skin was not even ashen looking. Thank goodness that I didn't witness her struggle with her last breath. It would have killed me. My husband's death was just as calm. He died years before my mother so struggling with her last breath never crossed my mind.

I'm so sorry for your loss OP... grief is the worst thing I ever went through. My husband passed 13 yrs ago. The first 4 yrs were the hardest for me even though I went through years of grief counseling. There are several stages of grief: denial, blame, anger to name a few. Some people are fortunate enough to not go through them all yet for some the stages repeat. I finally came to terms with my loss and the constant question of "why" was answered one morning when I picked up my Bible and randomly opened it to the book of Job. The verse jumped off the page at me and in that I found my answer to the "why" that haunted me for 4 yrs. It said that the length of our lives is predestined and we will not be given one minute longer. To me that meant that no doctor, treatment or machine could keep my husband alive nor could any action or inaction of mine. I know there are people who have their own thoughts about the Bible and life after death.. I respect the fact that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and disbeliefs. I'm not debating the issue. I'm just saying here that on a personal note, reading those words suddenly lifted the heavy grieving that encompassed my whole being. I'll forever grieve the loss of the life I shared and enjoyed with my husband, but I've come to terms with it. I moved on from my former life and now I'm content and enjoying my new direction. Each individual experiences grief differently... therefore going through it and coming to terms with it is a personal thing. I myself, am of the belief that there is life after leaving this tent of a body. We can't take it into the next life . I'm of the belief that the soul lives on in a way beyond what we are capable of understanding.

Again, OP I'm so sorry for your loss I know what you're going through.
 andy510
Joined: 1/1/2010
Msg: 43
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/15/2010 4:48:57 PM
I strongly believe once we die we are gone and finished, no after life, no hell, no heaven and nothing at all . Just look at a dead person does he or she looks like he or she is in hell or heaven ?!!.
 Jumbo Whiffy
Joined: 3/12/2009
Msg: 44
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/21/2010 5:26:26 AM
Frankly, I couldn't care less.

..........................................................................................................
 Jumbo Whiffy
Joined: 3/12/2009
Msg: 45
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/21/2010 6:44:18 AM
To be honest, I was dismayed with the lack of authenticity displayed by those who obviously couldn't care less.
 andy510
Joined: 1/1/2010
Msg: 46
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/21/2010 6:52:39 AM
Those who can not care less have not seen enough tragedies in this universe of ours or simply they pretend to be above the rest of us . I do care about human pain and suffering : my real problem is there are so many tragedies in this world that I am helpless to solve them all .
 Jumbo Whiffy
Joined: 3/12/2009
Msg: 47
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/21/2010 6:59:32 AM

Those who can not care less have not seen enough tragedies in this universe of ours or simply they pretend to be above the rest of us . I do care about human pain and suffering : my real problem is there are so many tragedies in this world that I am helpless to solve them all .


Well why don't you just go and die then? After that, I'll start a thread, and heaps of people will pretend that they actually give a sh$t.
 andy510
Joined: 1/1/2010
Msg: 48
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/21/2010 7:08:50 AM
Jumbo Whiffy or little nothing is arguing about nothing . If you do not care why on earth you keep saying it ?. Also no one is asking you to care . Those who care have sharp brains and obviously those who do do not care about human tragedies have no brains at all.....hahahah...!!!.
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 49
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/21/2010 7:16:23 AM
The title of this thread doesn't work as time goes on. Should just say "I had a friend who died once." Not many people have friends who just died. But when it happens it can be a very upsetting experience. However, over the course of our lives we all lose friends. Doesn't really work to keep consoling someone over a friend they lost two years ago, or whatever.
 Jumbo Whiffy
Joined: 3/12/2009
Msg: 50
A good friend of mine died last week....
Posted: 1/21/2010 7:22:46 AM

What makes him think that we care if he cares?


Oh FFS.

I have obviously made my point, otherwise such a grand display of tartuffery would not be forthcoming. Are you consistent? Do you not know that people die? Would you not think it a little bit patronising if people who did not know you feigned distress at your loss? What sort of person are you?

One that has no honour? One that holds nothing sacred? Of course not. You are a poor example of humanity. Ready to jump on anyones coffin if it should make you look "kind".
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > A good friend of mine died last week....