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 forums1
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 265
Why do men find it hard to be friends?Page 8 of 44    (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44)

in my opinion men and women can't be friends in the first place


I don't fully agree with that, but that's me - I *do* think men and women can be friends, *if* there is, and never was, any interest on either of their parts in a relationship. I think its more rare though... I've had female 'friends' (no desire for more on my part) that decided they wanted 'more', and vice versa, and its always driven the 'friendship' apart because one side is wanting something the other doesn't. Of course, per what the OP is talking about, if you're on a dating site its probably a good bet one or the other is looking for 'more' than just friendship.
 RobertKoi
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 266
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/7/2010 6:35:28 PM
"I don't fully agree with that, but that's me - I *do* think men and women can be friends, *if* there is, and never was, any interest on either of their parts in a relationship. I think its more rare though... I've had female 'friends' (no desire for more on my part) that decided they wanted 'more', and vice versa, and its always driven the 'friendship' apart because one side is wanting something the other doesn't."
------------
That's fine. I just presumed that this "done to death subject" was understood to such extent that if a friendship's ever going to work out between a man and a woman, he's got to be gay or have ZERO attraction and interest. I keep talking purely from a guy's perspective because it is a fact that in 8 or 9 cases out of 10 he's the one who wants more than just a friendship. But that makes me wonder at least why he'd still be hanging in there with no interest or attraction in the first place. I mean let's face it, if a she'd been overweight and considered "ugly" by most other men, would he still be interested in the friendship? I don't think so. There's always something more to it. If women want to keep denying that the sky is blue during the days and dark during the nights - fine.
 christ on a crutch
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 267
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History
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/7/2010 6:51:43 PM

The funny thing is that the women who post ads on dating sites looking for "friends" always list criterias for what they are looking for in a boyfriend.

usually, this doesn't mean she is ONLY looking for a friend - she means she wants to find out if a dating prospect has nonsexual compatibility before she bangs him and gets attached.
 mrnova66
Joined: 11/28/2009
Msg: 269
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/8/2010 8:07:26 AM
I do not play the friend game women play(Be my fiend until Mr.Loser comes around)Or be my back up..F-That...I got better things to do with my time than to be used.These types of women scare me.They are very selfish POS.They are all what they can get there hands on.Then drop you like a hot potatoe.It is all about them and the loser boyfriends.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 270
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/8/2010 8:17:45 AM
Guys:

Most women don't offer friendship to spite you, hurt you, use you or as an insult to your self worth. Most do so because they're either trying to let you down easy and won't carry it through anyway (which should be a relief to most men if they are attracted) or genuinely think there's something about you that's worth building a friendship with. If she's not interested in you romantically - this happens in the world of dating every day to everyone, and it's no one's fault. Get over yourselves. It's not always about you. Sorry.

I get really sick and tired of men acting like an offer of friendship is the equivalent of having to cut off and donate an arm. If you can't be her friend because it's hard for you to do so being interested in her - fine, tell her that (yes tell her - who cares? It's not about ego and telling her will help her understand) and politely decline the friendship and move on. There's no need to go on and on about what she's trying to do to you and how you won't fall for it. The fact that you're taking an offer of friendship personal is your issue, not hers.

This whole "if I can't bang it then it's not worth talking to" mentality is honestly what's keeping a lot of you single. Women SO pick up on that and usually try to avoid it, even women who would have otherwise liked and wanted to date you.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 273
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/8/2010 11:10:44 AM

Do you see that those statements are a bit contradictory? You say women lie and use it as a 'letdown' but ask men to give the real reason.

Oh, sorry I didn't realize it was being seen as a high stakes poker game. If you're an honest person than you are an honest person - who cares what the other person is doing? It's not a competition. Are you afraid a woman might see you as hurt or able to be hurt? GASP...what a terrible thing. I'm sure you'll live.

Besides, it IS about ego. It's a man thing.

Well, men need to realize that dating is no place to have an ego if they like a drama free and stress free existence.

BTW, I replied to one female post (in context) that she was 'unsexy'. She went through the roof in her replies and I have never seen a post from her since. I guess it's easier to dish out than to receive.

For THAT one woman? Apparently. I don't know that one woman, and I'm not going to base all uterus carriers on one e-mail you got. Why she had to be told she was unsexy if she didn't ask I don't know - and I don't know what that has to do with what you're responding to, but I personally don't take any of that personally and I'm a woman - so if I can get over it with all this emotional turmoil I'm supposed to be dealing with - than men can certainly consider it.

No problem here. Once the LJBF bomb has been dropped, it does not take me more than five minutes to say goodbye and leave. You may have noticed that ALL (yes, not SOME or MANY) of those 'friend' posts are initiated by women. I am talking about threads like this one where the OP wonders why a) men and women cannot be friends or b) why he wants more. I have not once seen a male OP post anything like this. I may be wrong, but if there is an occasional male OP, he is outnumbered something like 100:1.

My point was that women who ask this usually aren't attracted to the guy BUT see him as a good person and someone worth considering as a friend. It's a harmless thing, and it gets taken as an attempt at murder from a lot of men. It's hardly that negative and calculating. So if you aren't interested in friendship because you have attraction, then why treat it as if she asked you to sacrifice something when it's only really your interpretation of the offer? Realize you're taking it too personally and say no thanks, that's all.

Ditto for this whole "friends first, maybe more later" that some women ask for in their profiles. I have tried both routes, and while the former does not always work out, the latter never works out. Nothing wrong with not feeling a connection, but why this fake offer to be friends? To a man this is about as bad as telling a woman that her vagina reeks as a reason to break up. It is downright rude and emasculating. It translates to a man into "you are not man enough to make me think of sex with you" followed by a mental 'ewww'. I think the next time I hear that phrase, I'll reply with "F* you, too". I bet that starts another thread "Why is he so rude?"...

Everything you just posted is basically what I'm saying. No woman says anything they are saying to take you or any other man down. It's not about you, in fact most women don't even know you that have that in their profile. So what's with the hostile (and obviously very personal) reaction to it? It's not emasculating when a woman doesn't have attraction to you, any more than it's an insult to a woman when you don't find her attractive. IT'S LIFE. IT HAPPENS. If you expect every woman you have interest in to have interest back, then maybe dating's a little to stressful for you. People need to learn that someone's lack of attraction isn't an attack, a reason to place blame, or an attempt to discredit another person. It's something that happens to everyone and no one can control it, unless they stop dating.
 sarniafairyboy
Joined: 6/19/2010
Msg: 274
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/8/2010 12:12:50 PM

Ditto for this whole "friends first, maybe more later" that some women ask for in their profiles. I have tried both routes, and while the former does not always work out, the latter never works out. Nothing wrong with not feeling a connection, but why this fake offer to be friends? To a man this is about as bad as telling a woman that her vagina reeks as a reason to break up. It is downright rude and emasculating. It translates to a man into "you are not man enough to make me think of sex with you" followed by a mental 'ewww'. I think the next time I hear that phrase, I'll reply with "F* you, too". I bet that starts another thread "Why is he so rude?"...

Everything you just posted is basically what I'm saying. No woman says anything they are saying to take you or any other man down. It's not about you, in fact most women don't even know you that have that in their profile. So what's with the hostile (and obviously very personal) reaction to it? It's not emasculating when a woman doesn't have attraction to you, any more than it's an insult to a woman when you don't find her attractive. IT'S LIFE. IT HAPPENS. If you expect every woman you have interest in to have interest back, then maybe dating's a little to stressful for you. People need to learn that someone's lack of attraction isn't an attack, a reason to place blame, or an attempt to discredit another person. It's something that happens to everyone and no one can control it, unless they stop dating.


fine..but aren't you getting this all a little backward?

The OP is a woman, and seems to be 'whining' about why men don't want to be her friend.

men have given answers as to why, they are not interested in being a friend if they are looking for more (dating, sex, relationship, etc.).

I think they have the right to make this choice?

so why is the OP (a woman) whining that men don't want to be her friend? apply the same logic that you did (woman in) - You can't expect all men, that you show an interest in being friends with, to want to be your friend.

simple, no? why doesn't she just get over herself and get on with life? maybe the whole 'friends with men' thing is too tough for her, if she can't accept this reality.

No man says anything they are saying (they don't want to be 'just friends') to take you or any other woman down

IT'S LIFE. IT HAPPENS. If you expect every man you have interest in being friends with, in to have the same interest back, then maybe the friends-with-men thing's a little too stressful for you. People need to learn that someone's lack of wanting a friend isn't an attack, a reason to place blame, or an attempt to discredit another person. It's something that happens to everyone and no one can control it, unless they stop seeking friendships with men.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 275
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/8/2010 12:29:55 PM

fine..but aren't you getting this all a little backward?

Not with who I'm addressing here, no. I posted to the OP umpteen pages ago. I am now addressing the men who think a friend offer is the equivalent of a drive by shooting. And I think I actually made that clear - more than once.

The OP is a woman, and seems to be 'whining' about why men don't want to be her friend.

Thanks for the recap. I know this, though.

men have given answers as to why, they are not interested in being a friend if they are looking for more (dating, sex, relationship, etc.).

Uh huh. More review. Thanks again.

I think they have the right to make this choice?

Who said they didn't? Are you sure you're talking to the right person in here?

so why is the OP (a woman) whining that men don't want to be her friend? apply the same logic that you did (woman in) - You can't expect all men, that you show an interest in being friends with, to want to be your friend.

Man, you're sharp! We've established that in this thread numerous times, but that's ok - now I know you're paying attention. Baby steps, after all.

simple, no? why doesn't she just get over herself and get on with life? maybe the whole 'friends with men' thing is too tough for her, if she can't accept this reality.

If she offers friendship, and he declines that friendship then YES - it's been explained and established that she should then move on with her life. Is there anything new you want to address, here?

No man says anything they are saying (they don't want to be 'just friends') to take you or any other woman down

Yeah, the "reverse gender statement" doesn't work on me or my post since I've already said I wouldn't take a friendship offer personally (and honestly I'd probably accept it as I know when someone's not interested that it's non negotiable and can switch gears after it's been addressed. I can also say "no thanks" without throwing a fit if I choose not to accept the friendship). In fact, I said I can handle it so why can't a guy do the same - specifically. What's your point?

IT'S LIFE. IT HAPPENS. If you expect every man you have interest in being friends with, in to have the same interest back, then maybe the friends-with-men thing's a little too stressful for you. People need to learn that someone's lack of wanting a friend isn't an attack, a reason to place blame, or an attempt to discredit another person. It's something that happens to everyone and no one can control it, unless they stop seeking friendships with men.

That doesn't work either - I already covered this a few times, and so have other people in this thread. My post was to the men who seem to find a friendship offer insulting. It's just a lot of drama, and there's no need for it. Men are free to say to no friendships, a lot of them instead say yes with ulterior motive - no one forces them to do it, and I have no idea why they think the strategy makes sense. So it's back to you guys again. Maybe if men declined and explained why they were doing so, women wouldn't ask why. It seems men want to either say yes and try to "grow" on her, or say no with the maturity of a 5 year old...are there any other options that can be explored? Bring it up at the next guy meeting, ok? Thanks.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 276
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/8/2010 1:33:20 PM
usually, this doesn't mean she is ONLY looking for a friend - she means she wants to find out if a dating prospect has nonsexual compatibility before she bangs him and gets attached.

IMO, so does the classic way a guy puts out there that he's looking for Friend. It's not ONLY a friend, if you catch my drift. ;) I think the complain is though, that you don't have to be "friends" to find out if someone is compatible on levels outside the bedroom, or to find out if you mesh well. In fact, it's unnecessary. I think if people would say "go slow", that'd be better... because there are actual people out there (more women than men) just wanting ego-comforting attention (just a friend). There's never a need on a -matchmaking site- to confuse things with the F-word (well, in the dating circuit it is) lol

Most women don't offer friendship to spite you, hurt you, use you or as an insult to your self worth.

I think this is a good point... which can spill into other things, but I totally agree. Very few people intend to lead others on. In fact, the market share for leading people on is held by folks who are trying to be "nice". But only people of raw evil would TRY to hurt someone undeserving of it.

Most do so because they're either trying to let you down easy and won't carry it through anyway

Pretty much. And that's the problem I think folks complain about. It's actually selfishness, as odd as it sounds. The classic way to lead someone on is trying to be nice, or let them down easy, bit by bit. Mixed signals are had, the person doesn't want to be mean to the other, and it ends up being strung out... then the other person gets more upset than if in the outset it was a clearly defined "No, I'm not attracted to you." in one way or another. (Selfishness is not being clear from the outset on that; or using 'friends first' as a convenience/escape-hatch)

or genuinely think there's something about you that's worth building a friendship with

.... which again, she's not wanting you as more than a friend. When you go out as more than friends, even full-on Dating right off the bat, there is a friendship building just like anything else. You're not meeting at a hotel room and just spending talk time during the cigarette after doing it, right? I'm just making note that one can't separate 'friendship' out and believe that if you're going out on dates/more-than-friends-in-actions-and-feelings, that it gets in the way of having a bond.

I think not-going-too-fast is something good... like meeting the parents, meshing lives, etc. But that's not being Friends. There's a difference between "lets just be friends" vs "I really like you, but I just want to put it out there that I like to take things slow so things don't get complicated & weird".

If she's not interested in you romantically - this happens in the world of dating every day to everyone, and it's no one's fault.

I totally agree, and nobody should complain if someone lost interest. I think it's how they go about it and not drawing a line in the sand from the outset... or being in the whole "Gee, I don't know" lingering phase and letting it string along.

This whole "if I can't bang it then it's not worth talking to" mentality is honestly what's keeping a lot of you single.

If that mentality comes out in a guy, I totally agree. Of course, on a match-making site like POF (which is NOT a meet-a-new-friend site) -- I would say it's totally fine to have a "if he/she isn't interested in a kiss, it's not worth dealing with"... ie attraction. But to be fair, an upset guy in the forum isn't necessarily going to have the same aura/vibe IRL as he would posting a msg in the throws of a discussion on the topic.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 278
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/8/2010 9:31:18 PM

WIP - too much to answer to via iPhone... You have not really addressed the contradiction part - and no, it's not personal. I walk away when that happens and that's it. I simply answered the OP (and then addressed you).

In fact, you made another contradiction - or the same one again:
"My point was that women who ask this usually aren't attracted to the guy BUT see him as a good person and someone worth considering as a friend"
That does not go with 'easy letdown' and 'not following through', attributed by you to MOST women. I know from your other posts how you think about this, but you are the exception, not the rule.

I addressed the fact that some women are saying it to let down easy - and that in that case since they don't intend to be friends anyway, you aren't at risk of anything since it's a non-issue as far as the friendship not being in a guy's best interest. You will probably not hear from them again, which should be a good thing for men who don't want any more friends.

Rather than 'drive by shooting' I would call LJBF 'adding insult to injury'. It's ok to get rejected, but that friends line bugs the snot out of me (like most clich├ęs). I still stand by the ego thing I said. You have to have a penis (permanently) to understand this.

Ego isn't about being male. I know women who have more ego than a lot of men and factor it into everything, and men who don't have much and don't live by it. It's a matter of choice. Men can say ego is a male trait so they have an excuse to see everything as a projection of themselves, but they simply don't have to.
 sarniafairyboy
Joined: 6/19/2010
Msg: 279
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/10/2010 8:58:49 AM


That doesn't work either - I already covered this a few times, and so have other people in this thread. My post was to the men who seem to find a friendship offer insulting. It's just a lot of drama, and there's no need for it. Men are free to say to no friendships, a lot of them instead say yes with ulterior motive - no one forces them to do it, and I have no idea why they think the strategy makes sense. So it's back to you guys again. Maybe if men declined and explained why they were doing so, women wouldn't ask why. It seems men want to either say yes and try to "grow" on her, or say no with the maturity of a 5 year old...are there any other options that can be explored? Bring it up at the next guy meeting, ok? Thanks.


yeah, maybe YOU can deal with it WIP ..you do not represent 'all women' in case you haven't noticed..?

but believe me, MOST women take 'rejection' pretty hard _- I know that some men do as well, but in general they are more used to it.

In our society, STILL usually men are the pursuers and women are in the reject-or-accept mode -they are most often the 'choosers'

I had a woman come on to me quite strongly before, and when I said to her:" I think it would be better if we were just friends"

she FREAKED on me and SCREAMED: "you've GOT to be f*cking KIDDING me! What the F*CK?!??!, you F*CKING AZZHOLE!""

I've had others react a little more moderately, but not much..LOL they can hardly believe it it seems. women are conditioned to the idea that any time they 'offer themselves' to ANY man, he would 'accept'

so, sure you claim you can handle it no problem, I'm pretty sure the majority of women take rejection/'let's be friends' pretty hard.

also this might be different for someone not born biologically female who has since 'become' female.? (i.e. still has a'male' mindset) ?
 sarniafairyboy
Joined: 6/19/2010
Msg: 280
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/10/2010 9:01:45 AM

Most do so because they're either trying to let you down easy and won't carry it through anyway

Pretty much. And that's the problem I think folks complain about. It's actually selfishness, as odd as it sounds. The classic way to lead someone on is trying to be nice, or let them down easy, bit by bit. Mixed signals are had, the person doesn't want to be mean to the other, and it ends up being strung out... then the other person gets more upset than if in the outset it was a clearly defined "No, I'm not attracted to you." in one way or another. (Selfishness is not being clear from the outset on that; or using 'friends first' as a convenience/escape-hatch)


well, maybe she THINKS she is 'letting him down easy'

sometimes you have to be 'cruel to be kind'..

It's often 'kinder' just to cut off ties than let the guy going on thinking he 'may have a chance' eventually.

"if he plays his cards right"..

better to let him go on and find a REAL girlfriend, than tag along with these faint hopes..
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 281
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/10/2010 9:34:16 AM

yeah, maybe YOU can deal with it WIP ..you do not represent 'all women' in case you haven't noticed..?

I do know this. This however isn't my (or your) problem. If a woman takes rejection hard, that's on her. Much the same as when a man says yes to friendship and hopes for more and it don't happen - that's on him. BUT as I stated (again), why not explain WHY to her - some women will take it harder when there's no explanation. And they don't get one because someone's trying to maintain pride. *shrug*

but believe me, MOST women take 'rejection' pretty hard _- I know that some men do as well, but in general they are more used to it.

Maybe if women got more used to it, this wouldn't be a problem. Still...what other option is there? If you're not hot on someone, you're just not.

In our society, STILL usually men are the pursuers and women are in the reject-or-accept mode -they are most often the 'choosers'

Wrong. Both choose. Men choose to approach, women choose to accept the approach. No one's got the "upper hand". Again, it's not a competition.

I had a woman come on to me quite strongly before, and when I said to her:" I think it would be better if we were just friends"

she FREAKED on me and SCREAMED: "you've GOT to be f*cking KIDDING me! What the F*CK?!??!, you F*CKING AZZHOLE!""

So she couldn't handle it - I'm sure she looked like an idiot screaming that way, and you realized you dodged a bullet. Some people can't handle a mismatch/non mutual interest. That's on THEM.

I've had others react a little more moderately, but not much..LOL they can hardly believe it it seems. women are conditioned to the idea that any time they 'offer themselves' to ANY man, he would 'accept'

so, sure you claim you can handle it no problem, I'm pretty sure the majority of women take rejection/'let's be friends' pretty hard.

Again - every woman's responsible for dealing with things her way. Unless a man fears being yelled at, who cares? Don't cater to it. Realize that you made the right choice.

also this might be different for someone not born biologically female who has since 'become' female.? (i.e. still has a'male' mindset) ?

I wouldn't know - I don't care. I think it's all about experience, personality and outlook - NOT gender. I think there are men and women who think they should be wanted by everyone, and men and women who don't sweat it and know not everyone on earth is going to be into them.

well, maybe she THINKS she is 'letting him down easy'

sometimes you have to be 'cruel to be kind'..

It's often 'kinder' just to cut off ties than let the guy going on thinking he 'may have a chance' eventually.

"if he plays his cards right"..

better to let him go on and find a REAL girlfriend, than tag along with these faint hopes..

Hey - it's not on her if a guy tags along hoping for more. That's his thing. If she flat out says she's only interested in friendship - it's HIS choice not to accept that. If he does, he makes his own bed. Sorry.

Women (and some men) WILL do this to let men down easy. It sucks, but it is what it is. If you can't handle being friends and nothing more (as it's explained to you) without wanting more, than say NO (as the OP is complaining about, I am aware). If you look at it as an opportunity to get in with a woman later on, that's your bad judgement.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 282
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/10/2010 10:07:23 AM

Does that work both ways, WIP?

Be honest. When you've rejected men, how many times have YOU given them the REAL reason why you've turned them down?

I'm referring to a man declining a friendship from a woman who's turning HIM down. As in: "no thanks, I have interest in more and can't really be JUST friends." And yes, when I've been offered friendship by a guy I was into and wasn't able to deal with it, I've been honest about it.


Man: How about we hang out sometime?
Woman: No. I don't find you the least bit attractive. Let's just be friends, ok?
Man: No thanks.
Woman: Why not?
Man: ?????

Ha, I don't have that conversation. I don't offer friendship to men I don't know who ask me out. If I offer friendship, it's because I either know the guy already or have spent time with him and like his personality. And I also don't argue with a guy who says no - that's his choice. I just thank him and move on.

I've also never told a guy I wasn't attracted to him unless he was clueless enough not to know it's a given and actually ask.

You seem pretty straight forward, WIP, and maybe YOU'VE actually had conversations like this, but they haven't happened very often with me and most of the guys I know. Normally, it's euphemism city.

You all are making this too complicated. If you are asked to be friends by a woman you're interested in and you're not keen on it, say no thanks. If she asks why, tell her because you know you'll always want more, and that's not fair to either one of you. Then wish her a nice life. What's the big problem with this?
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 283
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/10/2010 10:39:57 AM
I only read the original OP and a few of the replies.
I never offer to be friends with someone I'm meeting
to see if we'd like to pursue a relationship. In fact, that's one
of my rules, if we meet and don't see potential...we won't be friends.
If I meet a guy and he says I think we should be friends, or worse,
I'm taking things slow, I'm not in a hurry, or I'm not going to settle,
I take it as my cue that he's not all that attracted to me.

No one says this dribble to anyone they really like and are excited
about.

On the other hand, I have male friends. I think it's totally possible for
males and females to be close friends, as long as there isn't any romantic
inclinations with either party. If one person is carrying a torch for the other,
it just sucks all around.

Telling someone you think you should just be friends because you're not
really attracted to them is like giving them a cheap midway prize...at least
in my opinion...but what the heck do I know?

 sarniafairyboy
Joined: 6/19/2010
Msg: 284
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/10/2010 10:47:39 AM

No one says this dribble to anyone they really like and are excited
about.

On the other hand, I have male friends. I think it's totally possible for
males and females to be close friends, as long as there isn't any romantic
inclinations with either party. If one person is carrying a torch for the other,
it just sucks all around.

Telling someone you think you should just be friends because you're not
really attracted to them is like giving them a cheap midway prize...at least
in my opinion...but what the heck do I know?


yeah I think you nailed teh point.

most people don't enter a contest or go on a game show hoping to win the "consolation prize" i.e. the so-called 'prize' they give to the LOSER who didn't win the REAL prize

"consolation prize" = "loser's prize"

"Let's just be friends" = "I have zero attraction for you/think you're fugly & gross & totally unattractive , but can we be 'friends'/sort of kind of hang out sometimes" -then I can talk with you about all the hot sex I'm having with the people I AM attracted to, but who don't like to talk with me - in other words be my emotional blanket/male girlfriend"?

few guys want to be the emotional blanket /male girlfriend/"nice guy".

why would I want to be totally platonic friend swith a woman I feel attraction for? just frustrating to all - might as well hang out with MALE friends, can totally relax , burp/fart, gulp beer if you want, eat messy food (pizza, dripping wet chicken wings, etc.) without worrying about how it looks on your face, talk about hot girls walking by & how much you'd all like to do them, etc. -most things you can't do with women lol
 sarniafairyboy
Joined: 6/19/2010
Msg: 285
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/10/2010 10:48:00 AM

No one says this dribble to anyone they really like and are excited
about.

On the other hand, I have male friends. I think it's totally possible for
males and females to be close friends, as long as there isn't any romantic
inclinations with either party. If one person is carrying a torch for the other,
it just sucks all around.

Telling someone you think you should just be friends because you're not
really attracted to them is like giving them a cheap midway prize...at least
in my opinion...but what the heck do I know?


yeah I think you nailed the point.

most people don't enter a contest or go on a game show hoping to win the "consolation prize" i.e. the so-called 'prize' they give to the LOSER who didn't win the REAL prize

"consolation prize" = "loser's prize"

"Let's just be friends" = "I have zero attraction for you/think you're fugly & gross & totally unattractive , but can we be 'friends'/sort of kind of hang out sometimes" -then I can talk with you about all the hot sex I'm having with the people I AM attracted to, but who don't like to talk with me - in other words be my emotional blanket/male girlfriend"?

few guys want to be the emotional blanket /male girlfriend/"nice guy".

why would I want to be totally platonic friend swith a woman I feel attraction for? just frustrating to all - might as well hang out with MALE friends, can totally relax , burp/fart, gulp beer if you want, eat messy food (pizza, dripping wet chicken wings, etc.) without worrying about how it looks on your face, talk about hot girls walking by & how much you'd all like to do them, etc. -most things you can't do with women lol
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 286
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/10/2010 11:34:22 AM

most people don't enter a contest or go on a game show hoping to win the "consolation prize" i.e. the so-called 'prize' they give to the LOSER who didn't win the REAL prize

Despite your double-post, I totally agree. When it unfolds in the most common of ways, yes, it does mean "I am not attracted to you". If they TRULY want to be friends, that means the personality, lifestyle, etc. is down pat. So what else is there? Hmm, hmmm.. Oh yeah! Physical attraction. It's hard to tell someone, and you can't expect people to be honest as to the whys.

It is a loser/consolation prize that isn't even a prize 95% of the time, because they don't even want to really be friends with you. Just not enemies. At best, an occasional acquaintance that'll say hi if happen to run into each other somewhere.

Of course, there's always the case of a gal wanting to hang out for attention, and being friends is just a re-iteration that he didn't get the first time, despite the low-level mixed signals... but that's a different scenario that unfolds, usually from the 'friends first' game-play.
 forums1
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 287
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/10/2010 12:19:31 PM

Can we be 'friends'/sort of kind of hang out sometimes" -then I can talk with you about all the hot sex I'm having with the people I AM attracted to, but who don't like to talk with me - in other words be my emotional blanket/male girlfriend"?


Hahaha... yeah, exactly. Been there... "oh, I feel like I can talk to you about anything, so I can sit and complain about my problems with the BF, work, whatever..."

.. um, sorry, thats *his* job... and if that's something you need in a relationship, and he isn't providing that for you, then maybe you shouldn't be in it. Or if you want to **** about him, or gloat about the great sex - go get some girlfriends to talk to. NOT... MY... JOB.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 288
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/10/2010 2:20:31 PM

Can we be 'friends'/sort of kind of hang out sometimes" -then I can talk with you about all the hot sex I'm having with the people I AM attracted to, but who don't like to talk with me - in other words be my emotional blanket/male girlfriend"?

This is one of the reasons to be very weary of the word "Friends" thrown into any context... or more importantly, in accordance with another thread: LEAGUES.

Some people say it will hurt someone's self-esteem if one even recognizes/pays-attention-to the reality of 'leagues' -- comparative looks+status, ie marketability. They say the avg Joe will be less inclined to approach Real-Cute-Jane. Well, two reasons why that's stupid to not recognize:
1) Denial is never a solution. Head in clouds always ends up biting you in the arse. Deniability doesn't resolve low-self esteem, it perpetuates it.
2) It's so you have a heads up and more aware of her possibly wanting to just be your FRIEND when most don't make that clear at all. When you recognize that they're out of your league as far as either of you could tell, you can be a little sharper at reading between the lines, so you don't celebrate too soon for what seems (or want) to be genuine romantic/sexual interest.

The part that shanks me in the back a bit, though, is when the other person has actually known you for awhile, and genuinely digs you--but still rejects you

When I've done that, it's because they want to roll right into relationship-valley too soon (ie too into you), and you know them well enough that they wouldn't be able to understand where you're coming from, so ya just end it because you've been there too many times.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 290
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/10/2010 6:02:49 PM
^^^^^ Oh, I totally agree.

<div class="quote">"Both choose. Men choose to approach, women choose to accept the approach. No one's got the "upper hand". Again, it's not a competition."
It doesn't have to be a competition to have an upper-hand; that's irrelevant. Women are essentially the deniers, not the guys. It's pretty much that simple.

The approacher is the one walking an uphill battle. Since guys are mainly the approachers, they are the ones who are putting themselves in position to be denied .... OR accepted.

However, that's just Phase 1. After initial mutual interest has been established, if the guy is wise not to turn everything into "Let me prove myself to you", it will THEN be even. If the guy continues down a "traditional" path of trying to woo a gal, then he's psychologically fueling the situation into him continually battling up the hill.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 291
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/10/2010 6:40:22 PM
^^^Ok you win. If you want the upper hand - wait until they come to you. And don't give me that "no one will ever date anyone if I don't make a move" crap. If that's the case, then it comes down to who wants it more, you or the other person? And then we have to discuss why that is.

If you don't like the game - stop playing it until it changes. If you don't want to do that, then the game is what it is, so you have to go with that. In that case, you will (here we go again, back to my original point) deal with women who either like you as a person (what a crime that must be!) and want to be your friend despite lack of attraction, or are using the words "just friends" to indicate a subtle cutting of ties.

So (again) why being relieved she doesn't want to REALLY be your friend, or explaining that due to your attraction to her you can't be friends are paths you could take, rather than either taking her offer as an insult, or saying yes to her to try and get in her pants later on or just call her bluff which is unnecessary drama for you AND her. That's all I'm saying. What's so complicated about any of this?
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 293
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/11/2010 3:34:27 PM
If you want the upper hand - wait until they come to you. And don't give me that "no one will ever date anyone if I don't make a move" crap.

Oh, I will. :) If every guy decides to sit back and never make a real move (approach to stranger, zoning in on flirting w/ friend of friend, etc), little will happen if he expects gals to make the first approach/move. It will happen for a good amount of guys given a long time, if he puts himself "out there"... but few women make the first moves, and most of those make them in very passive ways where you wouldn't know if they're just being friendly (ie a "half move" that he'd need some radar to pick up on if he cut himself off from making any moves himself).

It has nothing to do with who wants it more... the whole point is -- the person who approaches (that is guys generally speaking) have the "lower hand". The approacher is not the acceptor/denier. They choose to have a chance. The other makes the choice of acceptance or to deny them. The end result is not in the hands of the approacher.

So (again) why being relieved she doesn't want to REALLY be your friend

Because if she says it in an obvious fake way, that's salt on the wounds if the guy was really hoping for something. If she's really convincing, then he'll get frustrated when he finally realizes she doesn't want to hang out with him even platonically, if he chose to go that route.

explaining that due to your attraction to her you can't be friends

I would think usually personality would be real reasons why you CAN'T even be friends... attraction the reason why ya can't be more than friends.

I'm not advocating a gal say exactly why. However, what she genuinely wants should be honest. Don't say 'friends' if you want to be more than friends, but want to play the silly 'friends first' game. Don't say 'friends' if you don't want to even be friends. That's all.

The uninterested party, guy or gal, should just say they aren't interested in other. If they want to give out specifics, just make them accurate, that's all.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 294
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/11/2010 7:11:17 PM
Oh, I will. :) If every guy decides to sit back and never make a real move (approach to stranger, zoning in on flirting w/ friend of friend, etc), little will happen if he expects gals to make the first approach/move. It will happen for a good amount of guys given a long time, if he puts himself "out there"... but few women make the first moves, and most of those make them in very passive ways where you wouldn't know if they're just being friendly (ie a "half move" that he'd need some radar to pick up on if he cut himself off from making any moves himself).

Ok. And....?

It has nothing to do with who wants it more... the whole point is -- the person who approaches (that is guys generally speaking) have the "lower hand". The approacher is not the acceptor/denier. They choose to have a chance. The other makes the choice of acceptance or to deny them. The end result is not in the hands of the approacher.

My point is that if a guy doesn't like having the "lower" hand in his view, then he needs to change the way he does things. The result of that is irrelevant IF he stands by his beliefs. If he's just gonna pursue and complain, then frankly no one wants to hear it. Accept or change. *shrug*

Because if she says it in an obvious fake way, that's salt on the wounds if the guy was really hoping for something. If she's really convincing, then he'll get frustrated when he finally realizes she doesn't want to hang out with him even platonically, if he chose to go that route.

Few if any guys go that route without an agenda to get more than friendship down the line, so it's a wash. The only thing a guy can be upset about here is that she decieved him successfully before he could decieve her. Pfft.

I would think usually personality would be real reasons why you CAN'T even be friends... attraction the reason why ya can't be more than friends.

Don't split hairs. According to the men here, friendship with a woman you are attracted to is not possible without wanting more - that's what I'm saying.

I'm not advocating a gal say exactly why. However, what she genuinely wants should be honest. Don't say 'friends' if you want to be more than friends, but want to play the silly 'friends first' game. Don't say 'friends' if you don't want to even be friends. That's all.

This goes for both men AND women. Again, a lot of men also agree to friendships with no intention of JUST being friends. Wash.

The uninterested party, guy or gal, should just say they aren't interested in other. If they want to give out specifics, just make them accurate, that's all.

What do you think lets just be friends means? Obviously someone who says that to you isn't interested. If someone lies and says they want to date you eventually, I agree - but specifying friendship alone should be pretty clear non-interest.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 295
Why do men find it hard to be friends?
Posted: 8/11/2010 7:42:47 PM
Ok. And....?

And I was propagating the notion that yes, if a guy sits back and waits for girls to come to him, he'll pretty much run dry and that won't solve anything.

My point is that if a guy doesn't like having the "lower" hand in his view, then he needs to change the way he does things

I agree.... but not necessarily to never have the "lower hand". Again, the lower hand is being the approacher. He can't walk away from that, because in the end, very little if anything will be gained. He should change things to maximize his results when approaching (his choices, himself, his game, etc). I agree he shouldn't be complaining about it. But pointing out that yes, women do have the upper hand being the accepters/deniers in the culture of engagement, isn't b!tching about it -- just pointing it out. :)

If he's just gonna pursue and complain, then frankly no one wants to hear it.

I think most people who truly complain don't pursue. Of course, for Forums, I think it is the place to complain or at least point out things that one can roll their eyes about and complain, whether they express that when out "in the field" or not.

Few if any guys go that route without an agenda to get more than friendship down the line, so it's a wash.

More guys do than you think, if the gal's convincing and he really likes her. Not a good move on his part, but too many guys out there "hang around" with hopes that she'll like him some day... or just like being in his crush's presence... or some guys will smartly do that if she has cute friends. No deceit on his part is needed to be applied when going down the route of being friends with her.

According to the men here, friendship with a woman you are attracted to is not possible without wanting more - that's what I'm saying.

Definitely any one-on-one (not group-wise) friendships. Some guys don't understand that... or agree, but still want to keep in touch and keep a "who knows in the future" thing lingering. Not emotionally a good thing to do for most, but that is an option some play.

What do you think lets just be friends means? Obviously someone who says that to you isn't interested.

Yes, of course. But I mean about TRULY being friends. That doesn't mean they're uninterested in being friends. Sometimes they can mean they're uninterested in being friends out of context, but sometimes, they CAN be convincing about it. And once in a while they do mean it. Again, if they're obviously being fake about it, that's unnecessary. If they are convincing, but would only like to be non-enemies, that's worse.

So in a nutshell, unless you have been friends beforehand or otherwise really do desire to be friends, keep in touch, occasionally hang out, etc. -- don't use the "let's just be friends" -- unless the situation & context -clearly- means "let's go our separate ways".

To avoid any miscommunication, ie the safe route, is to just say "let's go our separate ways" or "I have to say, I'm not feeling it, I'm sorry" -- those types of things. That's what I have said & heard before... rarely "let's just be friends". That line has been used where they could possibly mean it, actually, although I'm sure in some circles, it's used more often.
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