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 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 26
Should love be reciprocated?Page 2 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)

So Gwen, tell me what you think I did wrong?


You did nothing wrong in resolving a situation; it is your use of a the words in the first post about a man taking leadership and your phrasing "When a woman . . ." in this post that bothers me. The scenario that you propose is not sex specific--it is human specific. I have been in the situation that you describe many time in my 57 years on earth--both with men and women, and it is not always the women who says a lot of crap and the man who tries to understand! Just as often, it is the other way around.

To not respond with anger to anger is not taking leadership: it is being mature, and men do not have a monopoly on being mature! And neither do women.


The type that I attract tends to want the man to take control.


I would wager that is whom you attract because that is whom you seek.

Of course it is all bull: everything is.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 27
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 12/26/2009 8:07:13 AM
I gotta go with BDJ's post in this thread. It's the way I see it - just about exactly.
 Free-At-Last
Joined: 7/15/2009
Msg: 28
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 12/26/2009 8:16:17 AM

"Love IS a decision." You choose to play, you choose to send the ball back, and you can chose also to stop the game.


Au contriare mon frere....to "reciprocate" is the decision. The ball is served and rallied back and forth in a series of shots...until eventually someone usually drops the ball or fails to return the ball.

LOVE means “zero score” Both players reciprocate to the best of their ability. Both players give and receive mutually and complementary….there is no winner or loser.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 29
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 12/26/2009 9:14:29 AM

As much as I love them the reciprocation is too uncertain. Too without constancy.

Constancy. A good, old fashioned English word. With values, morals and ethics built into it.


First of all, I hope you are having a great holiday with a lot of warmth and family. Constancy is a very important thing. It is what gives meaning to some of the words that people say. Or how they act one day compared to the next. The problem I had in my last relationship was that there was none of this. One day she would tell me that I was the love of her life, that we had an awesome day with kids and family, or that she was happy, to then within two days, complaint about everything. From tumors now growing in her bones, to having doctors that had dropped the ball, or friends or family that were not good because of this flaw of the other flaw. There was no constancy. So then it becomes not an issue of reciprocity but an issue of you do not know if doing what you thought was right was valued or it was not.

So I understand that sometime you can love someone but you just can't live with them. LOL
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 30
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 12/26/2009 2:38:00 PM

outmind i'm sorry about the situation with your GF but it sorta meshes with my own theory that many cancer patients have toxic personalities. cancer, after all, is a stress disease... not saying that *all* cancer patients have toxic personalities... but what i *am* saying is that toxic personalities are predisposed to cancer and then predisposed to exacerbate it due to their own particular mindset.... which you took the time to describe thoroughly enough, IMO.


I believe it's a crap shoot (no pun intended) when it comes to illness like cancer. I remember having a conversation in a bar a few years ago with a well known area Oncologist. He knew that I was struggling with Ulcerative Colitis and told me that colon cancer patients usually seemed to have really nice dispositions. His theory was they internalized feelings and stress so much and went straight to their colon. A literal gut reaction. I know that if someone is causing a lot of grief and stress in my life, it makes me physically ill. I would say more than likely that many cancer patients have toxic people in their lives or they don't handle stress well.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 31
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 12/26/2009 3:37:52 PM

if you insist on turning your own life into a psychic pressure cooker, it's only a matter of time before it manifests as something really ugly... could be physical... could be mental. sometimes, it comes as a bleeding ulcer. sometimes alcoholism or drug abuse... and sometimes cancer.


Wow, this is an interesting statement and worth exploring. My ex wife's mother, was one of these drama queens that had to be pissed off with someone. Mainly to her husband but it included everyone else. He died of Lung cancer, but that is not related, soon after than, while she went though trying to destroy emotionally all her daughters, she developed Rhumatoid Arthritis. One of the main causes of this disease, is stress. So I can also see how someone can develop cancer, just dealing or internalizing stress.

My ex gf, did not have a history of breast cancer. So why cancer at that age? She had gone through some very traumatic episodes just a few years back. Traumas that left her almost dead. She never dealt with them through therapy. So in our relationship she was very explosive and jumped because she would think that was the behavior that lead to that trauma. Add to that the simple fact that we couldn't even throw a simple baby shower without her completely stressing out and that she was ADD and had to take a little Prozac.

So I do believe in the above statement. So it's true. Stress can kill you.
 Dare to
Joined: 2/11/2009
Msg: 32
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 12/26/2009 9:11:37 PM

That to me is love
Outmind your interpretation of love is very similar to mine. Many people get into trouble in their relationships because they stop doing the things that let their partner know how much they are cared about, and it has a domino effect and eventually neither partner shows how much they care anymore.


Now the question to you, should we expect reciprocation? What happens when one or the other partner does not get that reciprocation? Your thoughts.
After reading this thread i'm quite surprised at the amount of people who have said that loving somebody requires that you don't EXPECT anything in return. I tend to think in a very different way that that...

I know that if i'm in a relationship where the love and affection is not reciprocated, then the relationship will just come to a grinding halt. There will be no relationship without continual reciprocation. That's not to say every time i do something he has to do something back, but that OVERALL the relationship is balanced as to the amount of giving and receiving going on.

I have found in the relationships i have been in that if one of us starts backing off from the displays of caring, then the other will inadvertently do the same after a short amount of time of having no affection given to them. Also that the opposite is true, the more i show affection or other nice things then the more he gives too. So i not only think that love should be reciprocated, i think it is vital if a relationship is going to grow and survive.

I have no idea how someone can continue in a relationship if the love they feel is not reciprocated. IMO it's like the unconditional love thing.... How can someone keep loving a person no matter what they do????

My love for a man IS conditional (there are things he can do which will make me stop loving him) , and i expect my feelings to be reciprocated if the relationship is to continue...
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 33
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 12/27/2009 7:22:36 AM
I think one needs to distinguish out loving and relationship. The only thing we can expect people to be is themselves; they'll be fully human with their flaws and their greatness. To be loving is to allow someone to be the human they are; give space to their crap and deal with the human being.

One side of compatibility often, or so it seems to me, is that we find it relatively easy to give space to their crap. Their faults are ones we can give space to. If we can't, it is time to either grow or allow it to end.

Do we want to partner with this person? Maybe, maybe not. I think you date to get to know them, to see how you relate together in both a giving sense as well as a 'give space' sense. Giving space is one of the many expressions of love.

If you date and are naturally flowing well, then you are drawn together. If things aren't flowing well, you'll drift apart. The mistake some people make, or so my current theory goes, is when they try to force fit or direct flow.

Love is relating and relationships is the name we give to our partnership of relating. It's a co-creation and a merging of possibility and energy.

I don't hold expectation in the same way many people seem to. Expectation means you have an idea of who they are and how they'll react and we often get ourselves trapped in that. Much better to be more patient and stay out of their way to allow them to 'show up' for who they are; it's a niftier sense of discovery that way, or so it seems to me.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 34
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 12/27/2009 7:30:33 AM

One day she would tell me that I was the love of her life, that we had an awesome day with kids and family, or that she was happy, to then within two days, complaint about everything.


My mother is bi-polar, but when I was a child, there was no name for how she acted. On any given day, I could do something and it was perfectly acceptable. I could do the same thing a week later and be punished for the act. A word said with the wrong inflection could piss her off, and my family was never sure of the inflection that would trigger her anger or words that would trigger her depression.

It had nothing to do with being a female: it had to do with being mentally ill.

But beyond mental illness, we lie to ourselves. I was married for 25 years and when I decided to leave, many people, including my husband, were shocked. Many thought that we had a very good and happy marriage--again, including him. Yet over those 25 years, my unhappiness manifested itself in many ways--unhappiness that I usually managed to suppress or deny to even myself. When it bubbled to the surface, I would complain like your wife. When the marriage came to its true end, though, any anger had become apathy and I no longer complained about anything. I just left.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 35
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 12/27/2009 8:41:03 AM
IMO there's a difference between not feeling loved and stepping back from it - feeling less inspired to give overall, and loving someone EXPECTING to get love back. It's a thin line, but it's there.

You can love someone and know that a relationship with them isn't for you. You can also love someone and appreciate that they love you back. Personally the generousity of one side shouldn't depend on the reaction of the other. What makes you feel wanted in a relationship has nothing to do with how much love you give.

If you are with someone that sees it the way you do (if you are a giver and don't place entitlement/expectation on someone) then love will naturally flow in your direction. If not, you shrug and say "hey I guess this isn't where I belong" but you still stay the same person.
 carolann0308
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 36
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 12/27/2009 3:58:22 PM

Should love be reciprocated?


Oh my friend, wouldn't it be lovely if it was. I envy the older couple you described I always have wanted a love like that and have always felt that it was possible for me, just undiscovered at this time. Someone that knew what you always needed and were emphatically in tune with your desire for them.
My parents have it, so I believe in it and know it is out there.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 37
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 12/27/2009 4:46:31 PM

My mother is bi-polar, but when I was a child, there was no name for how she acted. On any given day, I could do something and it was perfectly acceptable. I could do the same thing a week later and be punished for the act. A word said with the wrong inflection could piss her off, and my family was never sure of the inflection that would trigger her anger or words that would trigger her depression.


Gwen, I think you really hit a nerve with this statement. It makes so much sense. Thanks.
 SweetnessInFlorida
Joined: 6/26/2008
Msg: 38
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/10/2011 9:39:37 PM
I could not be in a relationship or close friendhsip where the love was not mutual, and the person did not honor my feelings.
When i was very young (i am still young but im talking when i was in my late teens/early 20's), i used to feel that i should place no expectations, and lo and behold, i attracted people who gave me nothing but dissapointment.
Once i started developing a new mindest and setting standards and boundaries for myself, and expecting to both give and recieve, i begin to attract the type of people i wanted in my life, that met my expectations, and made me very happy for the duration of our time together.
 karma1160
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 39
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/10/2011 10:08:01 PM
While I agree that one should temper their expectations with kind of a wait and see attitude. To really get to know someone you really have to hold off labeling them and judging them and let them show you who they are.
On the other hand I feel that a positive attitude in life and a nature that is rich in perseverance will get you most things in life.

I have really come to believe that the true measure of how you feel about someone is how you feel yourself as a person when you are with them.

I can always tell when I am on the right track in a relationship, because I am a better person, I have more energy than I normally do which is a lot, and I want to go out of my way just because.
I always wake up with a warm feeling of joy in me, but when I am trying to give and feel like it will never be enough it drains my joy.
2/3 of the time I date people with very high expectations, it goes along fine and than one day I begin to notice that my cup is empty and I do not have the chi that I usually do for everything in life.
If I am irritable and get annoyed with little things it is usually because I feel drained.
I know when my flush is gone that my life is out of balance.

Mostly what I think keep relationships going is maitenance......and maintenance that comes from wanting to see the person happy.
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 40
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/11/2011 6:58:59 AM
relationships always come loaded with certain expectations. there is nothing wrong with having expectations per se, but it often happens that our expectations are simply inappropriate and wrong-headed.

i don't think it's inappropriate to be in a relationship w/ someone and expect to have one's love & infections returned without being prompted, otherwise it's all just a big one-way street and what fun is that? i might as well go say "i love you" to cary grant's picture and call it a day.

however, if you go around saying "i love you" with the intention of hearing the freakin echo on cue from your partner like a trained seal, that would be an inappropriate expectation about how love should be reciprocated. even my dogs know how to express and return affection without having an ulterior motive. it's never a test.

not rocket science, people.....
 Here_In_Florida
Joined: 4/4/2011
Msg: 41
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/11/2011 7:04:57 AM

I know that if i'm in a relationship where the love and affection is not reciprocated, then the relationship will just come to a grinding halt.


Yes, I typically don't have many expectations, but reciprocation is one of them I do desire. I even express it in my profile.

Why continue to love someone that doesn't love you back? I have seen so many people in 1-sided relationships where only one person is making the effort and doing most or all of the work, with no appreciation from the other side.

One person winds up being the giver, while the other is the taker, and that's where the relationship can go sour.

Reciprocation should come along with loving one another.
 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 42
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/11/2011 7:24:23 AM

Yes, I love because I want to be loved.


An honest answer.

But, whatever displays this dynamic, this characteristic, it is NOT love. Consider:

If an artist truly loves painting he does it simply because. If he paints for any reason, he does not truly love painting. He surely does not pain in order for the painting to love him back. It's absurd so even suggest so.

When a mother loves an infant, she does not do so in order to get love back from the infant. It's absurd so even suggest so.

When I love a principle, an idea, an ideal, the love of it, for it, is in me. I love it simply because - and in this case, simply because I'm a lover of beauty by nature - be it beauty in ideas, ideals, principles, women, or anything imbued with beauty. When I love an idea, I don't expect it to love me back. It's absurd so even suggest so.

A school girl who has crush on a guy will claim she's in love, and express all the signs, and experience all the emotions, yet she has never spoken to this guy, nor does he know her name or that she exists.

It is these odd instances of love, that reveal the true nature of love.

Clearly, love is NOT a two way street. However, from a third perspective, and when people are involved, it might appear it is so.



"Love IS a decision."


Nope.

Again, we often make similar claims because we notice that we kind of decide to love someone, to let them in, to accept them, or to even go on a date with them.

If you confuse the choice with the thing you choose, you begin to make absurd claims like "Love IS a decision."

It is more correct to say that "To love is a decision". Love in itself is not a decision.

To claim that "Milk is a decision" just because I decide to buy some at the local convenience store, is absurd. Milk is a white liquid substance with certain chemical properties, etc...

To say X is Y, is to attribute all the properties of X to Y.



Many relationships fail because they first had suck expectations that then the failed to reciprocate. And little by little they did less until the relationship died.


There is quite a bit truth to that.

The love for the expectation, or what the expectation entails, killed the relationship.
If neither party had expectations, neither would fail in reincorporating them.



Then every day I have to make the effort to kiss my woman. To tell you how much you mean to me. And fill your spirit with joy. If I do not do that, how can I expect to get joy back?


So many wrong things with this bit! I'm not sure where to begin. I'll mention some:

1) If you have to make her happy, in order to for you to be happy, YOU have got a fundamental problem. Your happiness depends on hers. A hellish state to be in.

2) If you have to make her happy (i.e. she expects it) she's not worth your time. She is an emotional vampire who's will suck your soul dry of every bit of joy. You will never make a such a **** happy, and you could try till you die.

3) If you have to make her happy (ie. you have a need to), you have a fundamental problem. Your need or belief to make others happy will surely bring you misery. You should just make yourself happy, and try not to cause misery to others. Going the extra step and actually trying to make her happy, when SHE should be doing that for her self, will make you insane.

If you can make an effort to kiss her, she can make an effort to kiss you, NOT because you kissed her and now she owes you kiss, but because she wants to, even if you didn't kiss her.

I'd just ignore the fact that you have to make an effort to kiss your woman. I'd think you would want to, but that's whole different subject.



It starts with me.


Yes, and no.

Your are responsible for your own happiness, just like she should be for hers.

Her happiness does not start with you.

I gotta jet, so I have to cut this short.
 FyrKrakn
Joined: 2/21/2010
Msg: 43
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/11/2011 7:30:08 AM
This was one of the first grown up love lessons that I had to learn, and one my daughter faced rather early, as well. I think people who are caretakers, empathetic, sympathetic, have compassion, need to learn this, because we love people first and anyway. When it comes to romantic love, someone else feeling that way towards us does not obligate us in any way to reciprocate. We don't even have to try, or fake the funk.

My daughter, in early teens, was sweet and pretty and fun in a tomboy way. So she had groups of boys in crush, and still does. These were friends that she ADORED, but did not share the crush. So whenever one confessed, she would suffer. Should she give him a chance, date him awhile and then break up, and so on, having been given loads of advice from others.

She came to me, and I told her the lesson I had learned. I also told her that the time will come when the shoe is on the other foot. Would she want that person to play a game, to pretend, to just "try"? No.

It's best to cut with a sharp knife, quick and clean. So she has learned to find considerate words to end crushes.

In terms of good friends giving love, I am not obligated to reciprocate. I give to strangers and just hope for a pay it forward to happen. I think everyone has a panopoly of uneven relationships. I have exes who love me who have burned the emotional bridge down. I have people in my life who are grateful for me and feel positive, but I have no respect for. Still, when given love, I WANT to reciprocate, and so, I do.
 Janet_Always
Joined: 12/7/2010
Msg: 44
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/11/2011 7:38:44 AM
Of course love should be reciprocated (if you're looking for relationship).

What makes a union is the connection two people have -- reaching out to each other with desire and affection.

If one is simply present and the other is doing the hanging on? I don't know what that is, but it sounds miserable to me... and dishonest from the non-participant's perspective of keeping someone around for the good stuff they receive.
 FyrKrakn
Joined: 2/21/2010
Msg: 45
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/11/2011 7:50:38 AM
Why do relationships fail?

All relationships end. Death, if nothing else, steps in.

Fail is from an expectation of success that is defined as happy ever after. WHY do we continue to define that as relationship success?

For so long as even one partner thinks in terms of wanting this kind of success, the relationship is doomed to fail.

Understanding that endings come for many reasons, I open my relationships with the intention of ending it and changing it to something else. I call it success when we have our good romance and life pulls us in two directions and we are able to convert the romance to friendship and stay out of the way for new romance for each other. If this temporary thing lasts til death, how nice, but it is always temporary, and therefore precious. I think commitments of forever lead to someone taking the other for granted as if the future is guaranteed and therefore, the *now* is less valued.

Relationships succeed moment by moment. It's always about *now* and should never be about tomorrow. Kiss me now. Love me now. Let me see in your eyes, NOW, that you want my love, that you ARE feeling it, receiving it, glowing in it.

Fail? We have later for that.
 Snappy_Turtle
Joined: 2/27/2011
Msg: 46
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/12/2011 4:50:24 AM
No need for dissilluze, hon, go back to post # 2 if you need lifted up.


To be in love, to be of love, to act from the love that motivates all of life, you just sort of be there and know better than to get in its way.


or the eerily similar post around # 58
Expectation means you have an idea of who they are and how they'll react and we often get ourselves trapped in that. Much better to be more patient and stay out of their way

I'm always getting in the way
cuz
I confess I only know how to love in the vulgar, ego-bound way. Even with my offspring, who are the closest I'll probably ever get to selfless love -- if by now they'd never reciprocated anything, I just wonder if I'd still feel as loving.
 Janet_Always
Joined: 12/7/2010
Msg: 47
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/12/2011 1:36:57 PM
I think it's kind of like breathing... you can't always exhale... eventually you run out of air.
 DoubleParked
Joined: 10/22/2008
Msg: 48
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/12/2011 2:27:57 PM
Well put, Janet Always!
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 49
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History
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/12/2011 3:04:35 PM
I have big problems with the word SHOULD. It always implies that there's an authority involved, who can enforce the idea, or who will at least support everyone who wants to make big pronouncements one way or the other. When it comes to human relationships, there is NO such authority, and if some one or some thing set themselves up as such an authority, I'd join the crowd of rock throwers right away.

No, I disagree completely that a real loving relationship is anything like breathing at all. If you HAVE to receive back, then you aren't giving at all. You are BARTERING. You are BUYING. Might as well say that everyone who pretends to like someone in exchange for money or personal comforts, is really in love with them.

As for LOVE, I either feel it or I don't. When it comes to wanting to be with someone, I either do, or I don't. When it comes to giving, I either LET GO of something so that it goes to someone else, OR I DIDN'T GIVE THEM ANYTHING.

I love a number of people. I intend that I will love at least one more. Who ever I care about, doesn't have to do a damn thing back, for me to keep caring about them, because I don't DECIDE to care about them in the first place, I just discover that I do. I guess love means something else to me, than it does to these other folks.
 Janet_Always
Joined: 12/7/2010
Msg: 50
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/12/2011 3:18:48 PM
^^while I agree that not everyone you love needs to give back in the same vain, you do need to receive that supply from somewhere else. You cannot be an ever giving, never receiving person.

I doubt that any of us are.
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