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 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 76
Should love be reciprocated?Page 4 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)

Jeezuz dood....... read "The Five Love Languages" and get off the expectation train.....



Not everyone lives their lives according to what some pop psychologist has written. Just because someone writes something and sells a lot of books, that does not mean it is 'truth.' People define love in different ways. It is an abstract term. People love others in different ways as well. There is no recipe for living life or for loving others.



Great answer. Couldn't say it better.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 77
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/24/2011 9:37:26 PM
Lovely opening post, op!


What makes a relationship successful


Two people who get together who each understand what you said. As poetic is your expression, it really is the statement of realization that a loving relationship is something one must work at. People get lazy, disenchanted, impatient. I believe that successful relationships are between those who can weather the natural ebb & flow of life, and realize that they are just that, the natural flow of life. While one may always be the center of their love's world, one is not always the center of their attention. Reciprocity of love may not entail giving back, exactly, in a moment, rather accepting appreciation for the giving whilst otherwise engaged in whatever takes precedence at a certain point in one's life & the willingness to accept & to wait until you become once again the focus. (if that makes sense) At some point, love matures & realizes this; if your relationship can make it through the phases that test it, whether they be raising children, meddling parents, exes, etc. the relationship is successful. If you ask me, anyway.

Aww, now I feel all warm & fuzzy, although it may be the wine. Sweet dreams!
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 78
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/25/2011 4:30:02 AM

If it is really love, you don't have to watch your tongue. Not a bad world could come out of your mouth, even if you tried.


That is a very romantic notion...but the reality is that we are all flawed human beings. So we will say things from time to time that are inconsiderate or offensive to those that we love.

Love isn't just a feeling, it's a choice.
 bullielover62
Joined: 12/2/2006
Msg: 79
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/25/2011 1:45:05 PM

Not everyone lives their lives according to what some pop psychologist has written. Just because someone writes something and sells a lot of books, that does not mean it is 'truth.' People define love in different ways. It is an abstract term. People love others in different ways as well. There is no recipe for living life or for loving others.


Yeah, glad you liked that response, OP.... seems it fits into your agenda. Trouble is, you're the one setting up the agenda for your partner as well.

Don't read the book.... no skin off my teeth. It was just an option to your long ass post about what you think you deserve.....

The fact that you question whether or not love should be reciprocated means you expect it back, and that is a very controlling attitude to take. If I know one thing that a book can't teach me, it's that love is not about controlling.

Figure it out..... Let go.


bullie~
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 80
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/25/2011 2:08:48 PM
bullie


Don't read the book.... no skin off my teeth. It was just an option to your long ass post about what you think you deserve.....


Deserve? Obviously it was too long for you and you did not read it.
 bullielover62
Joined: 12/2/2006
Msg: 81
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/25/2011 2:15:08 PM
This isn't about me................... You are the one who feels "deserving". I'm here to state my opinion that no one is deserving of anything. If you want something, put it out there... if you get it, great... if NOT, then it wasn't meant to be, and move on.

You cannot control whether or not you're going to get something back. Dig?


bullie~
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 82
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/25/2011 3:01:55 PM
The fact that you question whether or not love should be reciprocated means you expect it back, and that is a very controlling attitude to take. If I know one thing that a book can't teach me, it's that love is not about controlling.



This isn't about me................... You are the one who feels "deserving". I'm here to state my opinion that no one is deserving of anything. If you want something, put it out there... if you get it, great... if NOT, then it wasn't meant to be, and move on.



I think to me reciprocation is not an expectation but a gift.


Somehow you turned the questioning into an issue of control and being controlling. Perhaps a projection? Perhaps a stretch?
 FyrKrakn
Joined: 2/21/2010
Msg: 83
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/25/2011 4:36:39 PM
I expect hot debates in various threads, but not in this one. Semantics, anyone?

So, under scrutiny here:

Should/required

Expect/expectation

Deserve/worthy

No strings/unconditional

Conditional/obligated

Control/fear

All of this is distraction from wbat I took as the meat of the question.

For a relationship (of the romantic sexually active long term type) to be successful, is reciprocity of loving expression and feelings a necessary dynamic?

Yes, I believe it is. Without this reciprocity, it is still love, it is just not going to succeed as a romantic sexually active long term relationship. It will become a different kind.
 bullielover62
Joined: 12/2/2006
Msg: 84
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/26/2011 10:13:43 AM

Somehow you turned the questioning into an issue of control and being controlling. Perhaps a projection? Perhaps a stretch?


Ahhh.... another poster who is sitting on his/her computer, just waiting for "the right answer" to come in.... And as you've seen, quite a few are disputing your theory that love should be reciprocated.

Take what works for you and leave the rest. You obviously have an agenda and will try to smite anyone who doesn't feed you what you want.


pffft~


bullie~
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 85
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/26/2011 11:44:54 AM

Ahhh.... another poster who is sitting on his/her computer, just waiting for "the right answer" to come in.... And as you've seen, quite a few are disputing your theory that love should be reciprocated.


Bullie, bullie, bullie. I guess your name fits you quite well.

I don't care if you agree with me or not. This is not about me, but about that question. I do not have a personal agenda. I am not looking for any form of vindication, nor what your suggested book may have. I am simply comparing PERSONAL notes. People have posted here "disputing" and presenting what seems right to them. And that is awesome. This is not about my argument winning, or my secret agenda of control. or their argument winning, but about perspectives, how different people see this issue. How the different types of love fit into the equation.

The thing is that pass the type of love a parent feels for their child, or a child for a mother, and sometimes between friends, there's a lot of gray area. What happens to the woman that falls in love for a guy, gives everything to him, he treads her like shi t. What happens when a couple one is kind of dry, but in his way gives, and the partner in her way gives, without being ask. What happens when you have a giver who is also very demanding and expects reciprocity for everything that person gives.

Again, there are grays. And all personal stories. So thank you Bullie for challenging My assumptions, even your blunt approach is deserving of merit.
 cookie22222
Joined: 8/4/2007
Msg: 86
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/26/2011 12:20:52 PM
OP - I think that love for me is all about reciprocated - and at the same time reciprocation has nothing to do with it. Love to me (in a man/woman sense) is about wanting the other person to be happy, and deriving your happiness from that in a way; you don't have to worry about getting your needs met, you don't have to tick off check marks (are we even?) - because they feel the same way about you. I lived that for a long time, and in retrospect saw it for what it was.

Love is a gift. You give it. You expect nothing back...but perhaps people become the great loves of our lives, because they are doing the same, feeling the same, for us.

50/50 is a myth. People have their rough patches. People get tired, people get sick.

In my own life, I have found that someone I love allowing me to give to them, is a gift to me. I wonder if you see what I mean there?
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 87
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/26/2011 1:52:33 PM
I agree that to have a fully functional relationship, especially romantic both essentially should give love freely without expectation. I also agree that if one side isn't giving at all, the relationship as a whole is probably not healthy and won't last. I STILL don't however believe that either side should give EXPECTING to receive. The two aren't related.

It's like a two lane road. Both sides flow smoothly in both directions for the most part, and one side doesn't depend on the other to function. Full duplex is wide open and each side doesn't stop if the other side isn't flowing with as much or as fast (or at all).

I also see the question as a general one that involves many relationships. I believe that in all situations, freely given love without expectation attached is the way to go.
 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 88
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/27/2011 3:27:02 PM

That is a very romantic notion...but the reality is that we are all flawed human beings. So we will say things from time to time that are inconsiderate or offensive to those that we love.

Love isn't just a feeling, it's a choice.


Love isn't a feeling, nor a choice.

And there is nothing romantic about the notion I presented earilier. Every damn person knows the true nature of love, but many are so f*cked-up and ignorant, something they did to themselves really, their own product, their own creation, that anything sign of "goodness" or "love" beyond their "f*cked-up self" allows, is either romantic or way too unrealistic. Oh, the irony!
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 89
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/28/2011 9:35:45 AM
A few points here and there...

I can love someone, and care about them, and NOT hang around and put up with them being callous or nasty towards me. In that sense, it is NOT necessary for love to be returned in kind. There are people I feel love for, which I have never even met, and for whom the fact that I care about them will never matter. Love is separate from what we choose to do because, or in spite of it.

There are many chemicals in us which we generate within our bodies, and which we at times attach emotional meaning to. As we go through our lives, each of us might come to different conclusions about the feelings we have in response to those chemicals. Some will conclude that because there is biochemistry involved with the FEELINGS of love, that therefore love itself is a purely mechanical thing, without any spiritual or separate psychological, or life-meaning. But as with ALL of real existence, what any or even ALL of us believe about it, what it actually is will STILL be what it ACTUALLY is.

I do NOT believe we all possess a container inside us, like a gas tank in a car, which is our "love supply." People can ACCEPT more love than they give, without overflowing. People can give more than they get without running out. And neither unbalanced equation makes anyone better or worse than anyone else.

Like Woman In Progress, I had my fill of "love in exchange" already. I am not interested in entering into another situation where I must give to receive, or vice-versa. By my definition, as soon as one BARTERS for love, there is none.
 bullielover62
Joined: 12/2/2006
Msg: 90
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/28/2011 1:01:58 PM

That's what real love amounts to - letting a person be what he/she really is. Most people love you for who you pretend to be. To keep their love, you keep pretending - performing. You get to love your pretence. It's true, we're locked in an image, an act - and the sad thing is, people get so used to their image, they grow attached to their masks. They love their chains. They forget all about who they really are. And if you try to remind them, they hate you for it, they feel like you're trying to steal their most precious possession.

People are afraid of themselves, of their own reality; their feelings most of all. People talk about how great love is, but that’s bullsh*t. Love hurts. Feelings are disturbing. People are taught that pain is evil and dangerous. How can they deal with love if they’re afraid to feel? Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they’re wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It’s all in how you carry it. That’s what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you’re letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain.


BRAVISSIMO!!!!

And back to EXPECTATIONS..... I challenge the OP once again... for I am bullie, NOT bully. *wink

Who are we to expect anything from anyone... lover or stranger? Expectations are set-ups for failure. Since the only person we have any control over is oneself, how dare we go about our day/life expecting others to do, say or feel anything? How unfair to the person. Love, a job, a returned smile or a phone call... expecting anything in return from another is taking that choice away from the other person.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 91
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/29/2011 3:06:44 PM
And back to EXPECTATIONS..... I challenge the OP once again... for I am bullie, NOT bully. *wink

Who are we to expect anything from anyone... lover or stranger? Expectations are set-ups for failure. Since the only person we have any control over is oneself, how dare we go about our day/life expecting others to do, say or feel anything? How unfair to the person. Love, a job, a returned smile or a phone call... expecting anything in return from another is taking that choice away from the other person.


Bullie, bully, heheheh. Coming from a phonetical language (Spanish) it sounds the same to me. *wink
Like I said in the beginning love is a gift. But as you challenge me, the original question was to challenge all that gray area. All the different things that make what we give, and what we get in return for whatever reason.

The poster you quote above actually hits on something very interesting and profound, actually is at the center of a novel that I am writing about relationships and the masks that we put on. He hits the nail on the head. But really are we, but a combination of I am statements, You are statements, He is statements that began the day a person is born and the fabric the programing, the reinforcement of self defining actions and the punishment of defiant actions, so we live by those masks.

When I give love I don't expect anything in return. But really? I think it would be a lie to say that we desire nothing in return. But since we do not know WHERE it will come back, we may give it and let Karma be the source by which it comes back. Maybe not in this person, but the next, maybe not with a lover but with a friend.

So Bullie, thanks for challenging me, thanks for keeping me on my toes. If I knew all the answers to my own dilemmas, my own flaws, my own selfishness, even my own arrogance, I may not find the need to be here.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 92
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/29/2011 3:21:36 PM
Occasionally, saying "Thank You" is enough of a gift for the other person to receive..... for having said or done something, that actually made a difference in your life.

...............and the best part is, saying Thank You doesn't cost a dime and it requires very little of your time to say 2 very meaningful words.
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 93
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/29/2011 4:09:41 PM
Doesn't look like men, nor women will ever get along. So much for looking to the horizon.....
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 94
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/29/2011 8:31:17 PM

Doesn't look like men, nor women will ever get along. So much for looking to the horizon.....


Dude, if that is your perception, that is going to be your reality.

The problem is that when we pursue women, and in order for them to get it, it becomes adversarial. You become lovie dubbie, and they call you a nice guy, a girl friend. YOu sort of hate them, tell them off, and unless you are rich, so super confident that you don't give a rats ass (the player type) and stay them for six months, until they wake up. Or you are incredibly good looking, but that works against you. Women will come to you for a night, or even twenty minutes and leave with the guy that had attitude. So you find a happy ground. In the middle. You are not an a ss whole but you do not put up with their crap. You keep and edge.

The problem is that once you are in a relationship the game changes again. And I do not think anybody has really talked about it, and the ones that have are more into a spiritual holistic way that most men do not understand unless they have been there. Unless they had to give it all for a dying person, or loved in a way, that now, they seem weak, but you can't help that, you get over, yet you accept that you have experienced something so incredible that can either doom you, or move you forward.

I wish I can say that you move forward. That is easy to say. But when the emotions run that deep, they are not as easy to replace as to simply snap out of it.

So dude. I prefer to think that it will be good. And that is because I have been through all the bad. All that pain. I lived there. It almost killed me. That pain of it. I kid you not. Doctors involved and all that shit. I was going to lose my teeth, white cell count to the point that anything would kill me, heart having little pains when exercising, then after six months. All gone.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 95
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/29/2011 9:47:43 PM
I'm going to call bullshit on a lot of this thread. People expect love to be reciprocated. If you don't think so, get into a relatipnship with someone who takes you for granted or cheats on you, and see how long it takes before you want a divorce.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 96
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/30/2011 7:48:28 AM
Should love be reciprocated?


*Yes it should or the union will not survive.*
Touching and thinking of nice things
for a person is an act of love, but don't mistake that charity/compassion is an act of love..
If I gave a $ 100.00 to a person who have a misfortune I don't need to be reciprocated,but if he ask all time it will drain and exhaust me.And so is compassion,it easily wear out..
If we love someone and he reciprocate it ,he becomes our alter ego, and that makes our life so meaningful. To Love and be Love.

Love is a gift? It could be , a gift from GOD>>>>>>>> I know how to love myself and others and that makes my life complacency ,and stronger to face the challenge of life..
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 97
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/30/2011 4:22:04 PM
"I'm going to call bullshit on a lot of this thread. People expect love to be reciprocated. If you don't think so, get into a relationship with someone who takes you for granted or cheats on you, and see how long it takes before you want a divorce."

I'm in agreement with all that too (except for the bullshit comment), it's just that I wasn't talking about that aspect of it all. I'm too specific for my own good sometimes, and this is one of them.
I said that I wont put up with a bunch of crap with someone, just because I care about them. That DOES include, that since what I am trying to find IS a full-featured relationship, that I will NOT hang around with someone who DOESN'T want sex as much as I do, etcetera, etcetera, even though I DO care about them. I was speaking simply of the fact that my experience with people who "believe love should be reciprocated" has been all negative.
People who calculate equations about a relationship, who count up how many times who did what, and who look at a balance sheet to decide how things are going are not my kind of people. I particularly dislike and disrespect those (who have at least been mentioned here) who will look at such a balance sheet, and decide that since their official mate no longer desires sex as much as they do, that this gives them license to CHEAT. THAT is the kind of garbage my own comment was and is again addressed against.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 98
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/30/2011 7:08:27 PM
I was speaking simply of the fact that my experience with people who "believe love should be reciprocated" has been all negative.


Okay, Igor, my bad, I put the world "should" in the original question, thus tainting where this discussion could go.

It's not a matter of should. Most of us that feel that have given, or had someone given to us, didn't feel the word "should" stuck there. I didn't feel I "should" and that she "should". Those people are quickly discovered and discarded.

But here is the reality of when relationships begin to go south. And we can get stuck in our own idealism, our own utopia, our own like Abelian said "bullshit", and that is without keeping tally, when you give and give and give, and you do not get anything back eventually the relationship ends.

When I did the original post I was in a relationship with a woman with breast cancer. I was before that more than likely an egotistical selfish prick. We split in the middle of her chemo. It was one of those where I took care of her and all she did was b it ch. After her chemo, an d her first surgery we got back together.

I felt that some of what went down was my fault. I f vk ed up. Okay, I admit. While we were apart I dated, I wrote that thing about love. Then we got back together. I also decided, to give it my all to that "new" relationship. Selfless, I think, we had a great six months together, but then it began to unravel because she was indeed also bypolar, had lived through some severe traumas (I knew about them, but felt I could fix it), and she began to shut down.

Eventually the relationship felt like you give, give and give, and there's nothing there back but recrimination, resentment, and wishing that the grass was much greener. I told her to leave. We split.

Funny, Abelian is right, you are right, Bully is right, many others are right, it's their reality, it's their disparity, and you do not ask in return, you do not keep a tally, until you find yourself suddenly empty. In the end is what are you willing to put up with. When we are dating the answer to that is simple, put up with nothing, but when you are in a relationship, with a person that is bipolar, you find your self in boiling water before you say enough.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 99
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/30/2011 7:18:28 PM

I particularly dislike and disrespect those (who have at least been mentioned here) who will look at such balance sheet, and decide that since their official mate no longer desires sex as much as they do, that this gives them license to CHEAT. THAT is a kind of garbage my own comment was and is again addressed against.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Some people doesn't know the meaning of remorse and moral obligation.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 100
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/30/2011 8:02:18 PM
Outmind :
You shared posting your GF whom you love very much that was sick of cancer,long time ago , my heart goes
for you when she dreamed about a bike tours that you two are in and got angry at you,because she can't remember the place..

Your love and kindness was not reciprocated by this womanwhom you love very much ,but believe me it was not wasted, it will return to you by another woman who will love you tenfold times. For love continues in different forms.

Be kind to yourself, You are not egotistical selfish prick.
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