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 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 93
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Should love be reciprocated?Page 5 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
Doesn't look like men, nor women will ever get along. So much for looking to the horizon.....
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 94
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/29/2011 8:31:17 PM

Doesn't look like men, nor women will ever get along. So much for looking to the horizon.....


Dude, if that is your perception, that is going to be your reality.

The problem is that when we pursue women, and in order for them to get it, it becomes adversarial. You become lovie dubbie, and they call you a nice guy, a girl friend. YOu sort of hate them, tell them off, and unless you are rich, so super confident that you don't give a rats ass (the player type) and stay them for six months, until they wake up. Or you are incredibly good looking, but that works against you. Women will come to you for a night, or even twenty minutes and leave with the guy that had attitude. So you find a happy ground. In the middle. You are not an a ss whole but you do not put up with their crap. You keep and edge.

The problem is that once you are in a relationship the game changes again. And I do not think anybody has really talked about it, and the ones that have are more into a spiritual holistic way that most men do not understand unless they have been there. Unless they had to give it all for a dying person, or loved in a way, that now, they seem weak, but you can't help that, you get over, yet you accept that you have experienced something so incredible that can either doom you, or move you forward.

I wish I can say that you move forward. That is easy to say. But when the emotions run that deep, they are not as easy to replace as to simply snap out of it.

So dude. I prefer to think that it will be good. And that is because I have been through all the bad. All that pain. I lived there. It almost killed me. That pain of it. I kid you not. Doctors involved and all that shit. I was going to lose my teeth, white cell count to the point that anything would kill me, heart having little pains when exercising, then after six months. All gone.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 95
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/29/2011 9:47:43 PM
I'm going to call bullshit on a lot of this thread. People expect love to be reciprocated. If you don't think so, get into a relatipnship with someone who takes you for granted or cheats on you, and see how long it takes before you want a divorce.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 96
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/30/2011 7:48:28 AM
Should love be reciprocated?


*Yes it should or the union will not survive.*
Touching and thinking of nice things
for a person is an act of love, but don't mistake that charity/compassion is an act of love..
If I gave a $ 100.00 to a person who have a misfortune I don't need to be reciprocated,but if he ask all time it will drain and exhaust me.And so is compassion,it easily wear out..
If we love someone and he reciprocate it ,he becomes our alter ego, and that makes our life so meaningful. To Love and be Love.

Love is a gift? It could be , a gift from GOD>>>>>>>> I know how to love myself and others and that makes my life complacency ,and stronger to face the challenge of life..
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 97
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/30/2011 4:22:04 PM
"I'm going to call bullshit on a lot of this thread. People expect love to be reciprocated. If you don't think so, get into a relationship with someone who takes you for granted or cheats on you, and see how long it takes before you want a divorce."

I'm in agreement with all that too (except for the bullshit comment), it's just that I wasn't talking about that aspect of it all. I'm too specific for my own good sometimes, and this is one of them.
I said that I wont put up with a bunch of crap with someone, just because I care about them. That DOES include, that since what I am trying to find IS a full-featured relationship, that I will NOT hang around with someone who DOESN'T want sex as much as I do, etcetera, etcetera, even though I DO care about them. I was speaking simply of the fact that my experience with people who "believe love should be reciprocated" has been all negative.
People who calculate equations about a relationship, who count up how many times who did what, and who look at a balance sheet to decide how things are going are not my kind of people. I particularly dislike and disrespect those (who have at least been mentioned here) who will look at such a balance sheet, and decide that since their official mate no longer desires sex as much as they do, that this gives them license to CHEAT. THAT is the kind of garbage my own comment was and is again addressed against.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 98
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/30/2011 7:08:27 PM
I was speaking simply of the fact that my experience with people who "believe love should be reciprocated" has been all negative.


Okay, Igor, my bad, I put the world "should" in the original question, thus tainting where this discussion could go.

It's not a matter of should. Most of us that feel that have given, or had someone given to us, didn't feel the word "should" stuck there. I didn't feel I "should" and that she "should". Those people are quickly discovered and discarded.

But here is the reality of when relationships begin to go south. And we can get stuck in our own idealism, our own utopia, our own like Abelian said "bullshit", and that is without keeping tally, when you give and give and give, and you do not get anything back eventually the relationship ends.

When I did the original post I was in a relationship with a woman with breast cancer. I was before that more than likely an egotistical selfish prick. We split in the middle of her chemo. It was one of those where I took care of her and all she did was b it ch. After her chemo, an d her first surgery we got back together.

I felt that some of what went down was my fault. I f vk ed up. Okay, I admit. While we were apart I dated, I wrote that thing about love. Then we got back together. I also decided, to give it my all to that "new" relationship. Selfless, I think, we had a great six months together, but then it began to unravel because she was indeed also bypolar, had lived through some severe traumas (I knew about them, but felt I could fix it), and she began to shut down.

Eventually the relationship felt like you give, give and give, and there's nothing there back but recrimination, resentment, and wishing that the grass was much greener. I told her to leave. We split.

Funny, Abelian is right, you are right, Bully is right, many others are right, it's their reality, it's their disparity, and you do not ask in return, you do not keep a tally, until you find yourself suddenly empty. In the end is what are you willing to put up with. When we are dating the answer to that is simple, put up with nothing, but when you are in a relationship, with a person that is bipolar, you find your self in boiling water before you say enough.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 99
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/30/2011 7:18:28 PM

I particularly dislike and disrespect those (who have at least been mentioned here) who will look at such balance sheet, and decide that since their official mate no longer desires sex as much as they do, that this gives them license to CHEAT. THAT is a kind of garbage my own comment was and is again addressed against.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Some people doesn't know the meaning of remorse and moral obligation.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 100
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/30/2011 8:02:18 PM
Outmind :
You shared posting your GF whom you love very much that was sick of cancer,long time ago , my heart goes
for you when she dreamed about a bike tours that you two are in and got angry at you,because she can't remember the place..

Your love and kindness was not reciprocated by this womanwhom you love very much ,but believe me it was not wasted, it will return to you by another woman who will love you tenfold times. For love continues in different forms.

Be kind to yourself, You are not egotistical selfish prick.
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 101
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/31/2011 11:39:31 AM
but when you are in a relationship, with a person that is bipolar, you find your self in boiling water before you say enough

these people are capable of taking in ENORMOUS quantities but they are only capable of giving in a limited way, and it's always entirely on their terms. i am not suggesting "keeping score".... i am just making a general statement about having a relationship with somebody who's bipolar. i am also not saying they are doing it to be deliberately selfish; i am merely saying they are not neurologically equipped to "do" relationships any other way. when it's up, it's up like gangbusters, but in the end it's completely draining.... so it's no surprise that one day you realized you were empty. i had a relationship with someone like this myself. you can't fix bipolar and you can't mollycoddle it into submission. it's only a question of how many more times do you want to push the rock back up the mountain like sisyphus. i would never try it again. sometimes love isn't enough, and that's life. in the end, you've gotta look out for your own best interests because nobody else is gonna do it for you.
 FyrKrakn
Joined: 2/21/2010
Msg: 102
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/31/2011 12:14:44 PM
Motown !

It's like being in a boxing ring when you thought you were stepping in to a park to play frisbee. You can choose NOT to box back, but you are in the ring, you get beat down. There may never be a literal punch, there may never be a "fight" by normal definitions, but the struggle never ends. Even when it is "quiet" you have to be on your guard and building it, never resting. All for love??????

LOVE IS NOT ENOUGH! what BS we feed our kids. Partnership skills aren't taught, because love will be enough. Communication isn't exampled because love will be enough. Money management isn't stressed because love will be enough. Knowing when to demand what you need is unecessary because love will be enough.... How long could I go with this?

Reciprocated love is NOT about even steven emotions, it is about partnership.

I see your feet hurt, I stop and rub them and play servant for the evening out of joy to serve my partner vs, I don't even notice even though you are walking tenderfooted and your feet are swollen as you struggle to get your boots off and I put my feet up and say "hey! where's my beer?" Two extremes of care and concern, and both could go more extreme if one happens often or just plain gets worse. For instance, the person with the swollen feet could have remedies available, but has a love slave who will take off boots, so why bother? Or the person with swollen feet may be using every using ever excuse, including the "where's my beer? azzhole" to not get better, so that they can have the pleasure of being miserable with someone to blame. In an odd way, the most extreme of either end could be the most reciprocated, because however dysfunctional, both are getting their fill of what they need and want.

There are a lot of analogies, all of them probably inadequate. I guess the only way I have to put it, is at the end of the day, do you feel like you would do the romance all over again? Or would you run on sight of the person?
 cookie22222
Joined: 8/4/2007
Msg: 103
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/31/2011 12:48:01 PM
I certainly agree that sometimes love isn't enough...but that to me does not negate the love ever being there.

And I agree with Igor that it IS possible to love someone you haven't met, although I don't know that you can be IN love with them. The person I would trust most in the world to be there for me, should it ever come to that, I've never met. We've been friends for 7 years now...the standing joke is, we will "meet" when one of us is standing over the other's coffin.

I think in the end we all come from different places, our experiences are all diverse; what else would we use to define something other than what we've lived?
 FyrKrakn
Joined: 2/21/2010
Msg: 104
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 5/31/2011 1:01:06 PM
"In" love is a very personal feeling and has everything to do with what you believe exists and can have nothing to do with the reality of the other person, so I think that you could more likely be "in" love with a person, thing or idea that you never met, than even in person.

I don't mean to negate the need for love, it's just, as a foundation for a shelter, it is just that, the reason, the location, the undersupport, the shape of the rest of the shelter, but in a storm, a foundation alone doesn't do much for you. We need other elements to our relationships. If two people are building a home, and they build up opposite sides without touching, eventually, the sides will fall down. If one person builds up one side while the other pokes along and gets nothing done, the time to roof it will never come. A house divided against itself cannot stand....
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 105
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 6/1/2011 3:58:03 AM
In an odd way, the most extreme of either end could be the most reciprocated, because however dysfunctional, both are getting their fill of what they need and want.

You can easily restate that to see that it is not so odd. If two people are in a relationship, they ARE getting what they need. When one or both no longer does, the relationship ends. ``Need'' here includes one's desire to be in a relationship. What is dysfunctional is determined by the consensus of society as a whole. If you were to go back 100 years, what was considered normal in a relationship then, would be considered dysfunctional today and vice-versa. If you want to see what people need, look at what they do, not what they say they need.


I'm in agreement with all that too (except for the bullshit comment), it's just that I wasn't talking about that aspect of it all.

Well, my comment wasn't directed at you, Igor, nor anyone in particular. It was directing it more toward the overall tone of the thread in which people were rattling off the idea of selflessness in which people conveniently forget they ARE getting something out giving, whether they realize it or not. The decision to get out of a relationship is often difficult because people forget that they are putting up with a lot of crap because they DO want something. When someone says, ``I don't know why I stayed with XXX because all I did was give selflessly,'' that person never really figured out what he/she was getting out of staying.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 106
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 6/1/2011 4:25:49 AM
"When we are dating the answer to that is simple, put up with nothing, but when you are in a relationship, with a person that is bipolar, you find your self in boiling water before you say enough"

Amusingly enough, that is EXACTLY what happened that brought me here to begin with. I MARRIED a woman who turned out to be bipolar, and spent twenty years learning the hard way, that there WAS no amount of therapy, tolerance, loving support, loyalty, or genuine belief in the traditions of "til death do us part," that could make it work. Bipolars in particular seem to constantly give the appearance of being on the mend, just about to properly appreciate you. They also can manage to persuade a person that the problem really isn't in THEM, it's in YOU. And since they sometimes SEEM to be 'reciprocating love,' you can end up trapped in that twilight-zone for a long time.

Maybe we can say that, for a real loving relationship to be a healthy and life affirming one, that real love needs to be flowing in both directions; and no amount of 'faking it' can replace the real thing, when it comes to love.

Oh, and I knew you weren't pointing at me in particular, Abelian, though I did feel a twitch when I realized I might have come off as more "flowers and pink" than I intended. From Outminds, and Cowgirls, and some other posts, it looks as though we could form a sub-group within POF, "Victims of Bipolar Nonsense." Interesting how many of us suffered the same way from them.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 107
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 6/1/2011 6:59:42 AM

`I don't know why I stayed with XXX because all I did was give selflessly,''


I would say that is the statement of the person playing victim. So Abelian, I know where you are coming from.


I MARRIED a woman who turned out to be bipolar, and spent twenty years learning the hard way, that there WAS no amount of therapy, tolerance, loving support, loyalty, or genuine belief in the traditions of "til death do us part," that could make it work.


I understand (NOW) this statement. The problem I had was that I am a fixer, if there's a problem, I fix it. I did that in my family as well, so when you are in a relationship with a person like that you go on fixing things, solving things, but when ever you turn it around and you need for them to do something, they drown in a glass of water, and then blame you for it.

Perhaps the most difficult part to understand is that you stay in the relationship, look at you Igor, 20 years. I don't know how many of those were trying to fix something and at what point you say enough.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 108
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 6/1/2011 8:39:36 AM
The vows of the Till death do us part is not just for physical 'ashes to ashes ,it is also for relationship/love......
If that person is no longer feeling warm,comfortable and at home with his/her S O,,,LOVE died she/he has to move on ....... In other words it is not meant to be to grow old with that person..
 FyrKrakn
Joined: 2/21/2010
Msg: 109
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 6/1/2011 2:22:47 PM
Relationships that suck but which we endure, are just a bad habit. Falling into the same sux2bu relationships is also a bad habit.

From the hypnotherapy point of view you can help a client shed/change a bad habit through one of two directions. The obvious one is to convince them why the habit is a bad one. Now, everybody and their neighbor knows all the myriad reasons to not smoke, yet, people still do. So, direction alternative, find out WHAT the person is getting out of by continuing the habit, and finding other alternatives. A habit cannot be easily erased, but it CAN be methodically replaced.

We only do what works for us. Discovering the reasons why and how we benefit, OR why and how we perceive benefits, from a particular relationship, can help us end one. This is why, as abelian pointed out, we can get something in return for our giving, but also why the other person my get away with giving us nothing, simply because our reality perceives us as receiving.

Perception is reality. (I was so disappointed when I learned that I didn't coin that term, lol ).

I do believe that giving is rewarding in and of itself, but I think when you discover that you are being used, that your good nature is being abused, that you are replaceable with any other giving person, then the lightbulb turns on and boy, does it shine bright. So it isn't for lack of reciprocation that we leave as much as it is undeserved mistreatment.
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 110
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 6/1/2011 6:56:07 PM
You notice how things from other topics keep flowing into other topics. It starts to sound the same. MAKE LOVE, NOT WAR!
 _Leahcim_
Joined: 9/10/2012
Msg: 111
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 10/3/2012 12:20:55 PM
I think to me reciprocation is not an expectation but a gift. And it's totally mutual. Yes, I love because I want to be loved. And that feeds into itself. The problem is when we fall into simple expectation you also begin to expect. But if instead you give, you love, then it changes the mood of the relationship. It's like a tennis match, the only expectation is that the ball is going to come back into my court. But then it is my actions to send it back to you, for you to send it back to me. And I chose in which way I am going to send the ball back. "Love IS a decision." You choose to play, you choose to send the ball back, and you can chose also to stop the game.

Many relationships fail because they first had suck expectations that then the failed to reciprocate. And little by little they did less until the relationship died.

I think when you have too many expectations you get trampled down, because they may never be met. But for instance, me as a guy, I want and I desire romance in my relationship. Then every day I have to make the effort to kiss my woman. To tell you how much you mean to me. And fill your spirit with joy. If I do not do that, how can I expect to get joy back? It starts with me. It is an act of leadership. But if I do, I do not expect anything in return but for you to feel YOUR joy and to reciprocate not my expectation but what is pure and simple YOU. You may be touchy touchy, you may not. You may have forgotten how to do that. But I would do it never the less, first expecting nothing, until the you begin to reveal yourself, your sense of comfort. YOu may be kissy, kissy, you may not. But the ambiance for love is there. And when you get back from work I offer a massage. Or a talk about the day. Or share an intimate moment. And you say silly things. "Like I was thinking of you." "The thought of you made me wet." I believe if two people are active in this they will go out of their ways to please each other, to think about each other, to want each other with lustful desire. YOu ACTIVELY think what to wear to turn me on. I actively think of ideas that will make you feel more special, more sexy, more desired. I will actively think of things that are FUN, filled with laughter, giddiness and joy.

Yes we can give and give and when we don't get it back so we give up. But I think you have to try. I personally do not believe that the Honey moon Stage should end, ever. That to me is hogwash, and then when you have the other, "let's pull out the remote, honey get me a beer, and let's watch some football." No way Jose. Again, love is a verb. And active verb. It has to be done. A man has to hell his woman, "Babe, you look awesome today." "I desire you today." "I want to make love to you today." "Let' get out of the house and see a play. A movie. Look, this restaurant has a great review. Let's go, let's be impressed."

And if she is too tired, too stressed, too not in the mood. He tries to understand. He still comforts her and makes her feel special.

Back in the days when I had season tickets to the ballet there was this elderly couple that sat next to me. Eventually they became friends and we sometimes hit the same restaurants before or after the show. They were giddy with love. They uzzed sensuality and love.

Also, love to me is understanding what this person is and should be your best friend. That I can talk the most intimate of things with you. So why not be inside your mind as well. But helping you, reassuring you, pushing you in a positive way. Yet letting you make mistakes because everything is a learning process. When my thought can penetrate your thoughts you begin to understand each other, and that to me is love. So then you can do the next thing about the other and that is anticipate what the other one needs. I can look at your face and realize that you need my hand over your eyebrows and massage the tensions of the day away. And you can anticipate how my day was, and give me a neck massage. Okay, it's not all about massages, but that is the metaphor that I am using. Some times is just cuddling and touching each other, sharing heat, the pulse of each others hearts, the breathing over each other's necks, feeling the little hair on the nape fluter with each gasp.

That to me is love.

Now the question to you, should we expect reciprocation? What happens when one or the other partner does not get that reciprocation? Your thoughts.


I know this is an old thread, but this topic has been on my mind lately, and a bit of an issue in past relationships since being divorced. I enjoy doing for my lady; cooking dinner, having coffee ready in a mug when she is ready to leave in the morning, initiating affection. If she had a rough day, maybe rubbing her feet, her shoulders, etc. Nothing really over the top, just being thoughtful and caring. They say do for others without the expectation of anything in return. I understand this. but when building, or being in a relationship, I agree with Outmind; there is some expectation of reciprocation of love and affection. Maybe not by your own methods, but their own.

Call them 'guarded', or 'jaded', or whatever label you prefer, the few women I have chosen to date seem very apprehensive to engage. An impression of disinterest sets in, due to their lackluster attempt to reciprocate. This in itself, is why distance, and inevitable dissolution of my relationships have occurred.

I have discussed this with 3rd parties that we socialize with, one that could provide constructive criticism before bringing up the subject with said SO, and nothing negative is mentioned. Maybe I expect to much? Not sure. I'm not that hard to please, so I lean more towards not on that issue.

I know the first thoughts that will come to some will be "pvssy whooped", "wuss", "needy", "overbearing", etc. "No wonder they don't last". I assure you, that is the farthest from the truth in describing my actions. Oh well, just venting a bit.

"I love because I want to be loved!" -Outmind
 providence2006
Joined: 9/11/2006
Msg: 112
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 10/3/2012 4:22:02 PM

Also, love to me is understanding what this person is and should be your best friend. That I can talk the most intimate of things with you. So why not be inside your mind as well. But helping you, reassuring you, pushing you in a positive way. Yet letting you make mistakes because everything is a learning process. When my thought can penetrate your thoughts you begin to understand each other, and that to me is love. So then you can do the next thing about the other and that is anticipate what the other one needs. I can look at your face and realize that you need my hand over your eyebrows and massage the tensions of the day away. And you can anticipate how my day was, and give me a neck massage. Okay, it's not all about massages, but that is the metaphor that I am using. Some times is just cuddling and touching each other, sharing heat, the pulse of each others hearts, the breathing over each other's necks, feeling the little hair on the nape fluter with each gasp.


Would you marry me? :)
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 113
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 10/3/2012 6:01:23 PM

Many relationships fail because they first had suck expectations that then the failed to reciprocate. And little by little they did less until the relationship died.


Im pretty sure that answers your initial question.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 114
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Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 10/3/2012 8:13:08 PM

Now my question to you,should we expect reciprocation ? what happens when one or the other partner doesn't get reciprocation ? Your thoughts.


Love energy is give and take, in other word it is attachment and bonding with each other... If a partner takes you for granted and expect you to always pleasing her/him it will eventualy drain your love/care to that person.
 dhaircutta
Joined: 9/20/2008
Msg: 115
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 10/8/2012 1:26:56 AM
love is not what you feel about the other person. its how that person makes you feel about yourself..you feel bad? abandoned. neglectes, used,
 dhaircutta
Joined: 9/20/2008
Msg: 116
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 10/8/2012 1:28:45 AM
wow, VANNILI thank you.. insightful ABOUT WHEN LOVE DIES. TILL DEATH DO US PART
WHEN PSYCHO HAPPENS, I CALL IT PASSION. WHY ARE THE PSYCHO ONES BETTER IN BED...HMMMM
 2purehearts
Joined: 9/3/2010
Msg: 117
Should love be reciprocated?
Posted: 10/10/2012 4:33:35 PM
Wow, OUTMIND, your initial post is truly beautifully written.

I've dated alot...in that time I've experienced many diff facets of care, etc...I agree with you...when you love should it be reciprocated?

I'm in a relationship..who has given me ALL of what I need/want in a relationship...yet he is reluctant to say I love you..has may be 3 times..but not full out on it's own accord ...I am crazy about you...i can't wait to be with you...la lala..whereas I have adn feel ya...if we spend so much time, we equally have good feelings about one another..why isn't it coming up more uhmm...shall I say romantically? Does that mean I am expecting too much? ALL the posts here have diff ways at looking at this pov.

I wonder.

If I am happy to say I love you...and he doesn't not necessarily shout it out..is it health to want reciprocity?

Cheers to all...OUTMIND ..I hope you are in a good way now.

:)
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