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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs      Home login  
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 TylerJH88
Joined: 1/4/2010
Msg: 85
Sacrificing Cherished BeliefsPage 6 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
1. The question I would have to pose to you: Is it a sacrifice to get rid of these "cherished beliefs" for the truth? My answer is: The truth is much more valuable than any held belief one has, no matter what it is. If you refuse to accept reality as it is in favor of holding onto a belief that no longer could ever be true, than it is a way to avoid accepting the fact that you are wrong.

2. "Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing." I don't hold onto any beliefs because, the thing is...there are always facts...Truth...creeping out to destroy any of these beliefs. I have convictions to certain ideals and I apply my philosophy to reality...but, if something comes a long that could destroy the foundation, I'd rather not cling to any sort of belief system...and be able to dig out the contradictions, the situation, and the new information at hand.

3. If I held any "Belief"...I'd get rid of them all for the truth.

4. I think this question suggests that one's perception is reality (I'm not so subjective). I think situations and experiences lead us to believing certain things about people, life, etc. But, that doesn't mean they're Truth...only a perception of the experience we held, and that is all they can constitute as. They cannot become Truth...and they cannot become a "personal truth", only an interpretation of actions, experiences, situations, etc.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 86
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/9/2010 8:40:32 AM
Anyone who claims to know the truth is either a liar trying to con you, or a fool who has been conned by a liar.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 87
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/9/2010 9:39:01 AM

Ducky, Is that the truth?

How would I know?... I'm the town drunk.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 88
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/9/2010 5:43:06 PM
You guys crack me up!
Man I've had too much fun while cleaning, doing laundry, cooking, working on my car
(had to order a $150 part from the dealer), playing shrink to my snowed in daughter (Omaha, NE.), shampooing dog pee out of my rug (friends dogs), and watching FOOTBALL!
POF has been a source of great entertainment all day!
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 89
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/9/2010 7:20:54 PM
@ Margo

had to order a $150 part from the dealer

(Financial advice from a drunken scottish duck):
Don't order from the dealer if you can help it. The prices are usually a lot lower at the auto parts stores. Next time, just go in with the part number and get a price. (You can test out my dealer auto parts conspiracy theory by calling a couple of stores for a price on the one you bought)
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 90
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/9/2010 7:30:11 PM
Thanks, already did. The kicker: It's a speed idle control actuator and the flippin' computer at the auto parts store says my car really doesn't need the part.
Tell that to my car that once got 35mpg and now gets 25 if I'm lucky enough for it to run.
Easy enough to get to with a 10mm socket, and a screw driver though.
Problem: the dealer is 40 miles from where I live in the boonies.
Sacrificed no cherished beliefs today.
Harleys' still rule.
 Super_Eve
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 91
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/10/2010 10:17:48 AM

The truth is much more valuable than any held belief one has, no matter what it is. If you refuse to accept reality as it is in favor of holding onto a belief that no longer could ever be true, than it is a way to avoid accepting the fact that you are wrong.


Interesting thing about truth...many definitions of truth are derived from differing philosophical systems. Even if we take the simplest definition of truth, accordance with reality, what will be truthful to an empiricist, and what will be truthful to an existentialist, may vary.

And this discussion, (I hope), is not about who is right or who is wrong...


"Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing."


I would be interested to know who you are quoting, here...


They cannot become Truth...and they cannot become a "personal truth", only an interpretation of actions, experiences, situations, etc.


What was the definition of truth again? Oh yeah, accordance with reality...I take it, you are mostly empirical with your thinking. What do you do, with your subjective experiences? I am genuinely interested.
 Super_Eve
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 92
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/10/2010 3:06:50 PM
Hhhmm...I thought that a belief was a premise, that was held to be true. And that it was verified through subjective interpretation, through objective data.

I found this interesting...


A person who adopts the Correspondence Theory of truth will use one set of criteria while someone who adopts the Semantic Theory of truth will employ different criteria; as a consequence, they could easily look at the exact same claim and reach different conclusions about its truth status.


Problem & Definition of Truth
Why Truth Matters and How Truth is Defined
By Austin Cline, About.com Guide
 Super_Eve
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 93
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/10/2010 3:56:38 PM

Then a truth is a misrepresented belief?


I don't know...may a belief completely miss, the present truth? You tell me...
 ea®ly
Joined: 11/7/2006
Msg: 94
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/10/2010 4:08:06 PM

The "truth", a fact that has been verified, can not be substituted by a "belief"


Sometimes the closest thing to absolute truth is when someone's actions match their beliefs and their words. Like many truth(s), this can be a good thing, bad thing or even nothing; to another person. But a cherished belief, if it is one based on introspection and self-actualization can be absolutely confirmed by actions.
 Super_Eve
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 95
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/10/2010 4:47:05 PM

Your quote suggested that there could be different truths based on different 'theories' (beliefs?)


The quote was not a suggestion, that there may be different truths, based on different theories, but rather an acknowledgement, that there may be a different criteria for such.

That was all that I meant.
 Super_Eve
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 96
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/10/2010 7:05:47 PM

surely there must be times when there is an alternative, dissimilar TRUE?


Uhm...wasn't that what I was saying?


It is remarkable to me how many different worlds human beings can occupy.


It is remarkable to me, how we only have this one, and we are still having trouble.


Sometimes with so little common ground that there is barely a basis for debate.


Well...we haven't established an agreed upon criteria.

And I am starting to feel, like we are speaking two different languages, here...
 ea®ly
Joined: 11/7/2006
Msg: 97
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/10/2010 7:07:52 PM


It is remarkable to me how many different worlds human beings can occupy.


Potentially, one or more, ...each.
 George0000
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 98
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/11/2010 7:47:50 PM
Yes, one will find truth is not what most people are looking for ,
when most find the real truth, they find they have been living a lie,
The real truth is the answer to getting our blessing
We cant make a truth, we can only see and understand the truth
 Chasing~Cars
Joined: 1/4/2010
Msg: 99
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/12/2010 2:29:42 PM
To me, belief is a dangerous position to hold. Belief uses so called truths to define it while keeping one blind to the possibilities that their truth may be invalid, yet some hold so dearly to an ideal that they will die or kill to defend it and then they call it “their truth”. Why does one believe anything? To believe is to close off other options, options or truths that may yet not be known. Belief has a heard mentality and the more believers you have, the more truthful they seem to become because of course if we all call something blue, it must be true! But what if one sees it as green? Can we possibly be wrong? That maybe someone else is perhaps correct? Nope, we have to stone them because they are threatening our truth.

Most truths thrown around are nothing more than opinions and when asking many to define what it is that they call true, it will break down rather quickly to belief of, or in a particular opinion. I have always been amazed at how stoically I have held certain beliefs to be true only to realize under examination and time how judgmental my truths were and how I used those truths as protection and as a guard to fear.

I don’t know if there is an ultimate “truth” and if there is one, I’m quite sure it’s beyond the scope of our feeble little minds to grasp because the answer will probably come from some where far too deep for language to describe. Those who seek truth are truly a rare breed, most only want enough truth to stay comfortable in their own beliefs, nothing more, they prefer an orderly, comfortable world of their own understanding, not what may really be. It's rare to find someone who questions every thing, and that's probably a good thing because it can be madening at times.
 Sunnie7
Joined: 1/8/2010
Msg: 100
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/13/2010 9:00:53 PM
I am in 'transition'
This means I have put the term 'belief' aside for now

Now I say
This is a 'hypothesis' that I am exploring and experiencing,,,,now
And it seems to be working for me,,,,,,,now

It resonates
It feels right,,,for now
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 101
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/13/2010 10:17:24 PM
A hypothesis is just a reasonable belief, hopefully with some corroborative evidence, at which time it becomes a theory (an even more reasonable belief). Beliefs are fine; even cherished beliefs are OK, as long as we don't "marry" them and refuse to part with them if something that refutes them comes along; that's when belief becomes denial. The conflict between belief and reality can drive you nuts, so take my advice and believe your theories & hypotheses...just don't "marry" them.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 102
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/14/2010 1:18:29 AM
AAAHHH... the "M" word...


That's fear of an unreasonable belief.
Boy one word with so much power.
I think even I need a beer.
Wait; I dont drink.
Thats right.
 Super_Eve
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 103
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/14/2010 2:22:20 AM

Beliefs are fine; even cherished beliefs are OK, as long as we don't "marry" them and refuse to part with them if something that refutes them comes along; that's when belief becomes denial


Okay. But do you not think, that sometimes we "marry" our beliefs, in haste? Only later to repent in leisure?

I maintain, that everyone has done this, from time to time...

One of the questions, in the original post was, are you (or me, or whoever) willing, and prepared to sacrifice your most cherished beliefs, in order to obtain the truth...

I guess I would say that I am willing, only there is that uncomfortable spot, in between.

Conditioned tendency--->disorganization--->new tendency.

That disorganization period, is like being told, that I have a cup of water in my hand, but I am really thirsty, and in order to obtain that gallon of water over there, I must first set down my cup.

Seems simple, huh? But how often when we set down that cup, and experience the empty space in between, do we not sometimes, miss/long for/go back to, our comfortable cup?

Aren't we creatures of habit? Is that, in and of itself, why we cling to our most cherished beliefs? Don't we sometimes colour them with the paint, of absolute truth?

I know I do. The name of that paint, is assumptions. Assuming, what I am seeing/perceiving/experiencing is the "truth".

When my ability to see/perceive/experience may be faulty, due to prior seeing/perceiving/experiencing. I bet I sound crazy to the empiricists, but I bet the existentialists get my point.

Dukky, dearest, as always, you get me to think.



That's fear of an unreasonable belief.


Wise assessment, Margo. What is the alternative...to say that we have none? I think that is denial...I think, that if confronted with total, honest self-evaluation, even the empiricists, might have a hard time arguing with that...
 curiousaboutu77
Joined: 12/28/2007
Msg: 104
view profile
History
Sacrificing Cherished Beliefs
Posted: 1/14/2010 4:01:07 AM
A lot of the time we aren't even sure whether what we believe is true or not or to what extent it is true. A lot of things in this world may never have an answer so all we can do is make the best of what we know or think we know and this is colored by past experience. This is also colored by values and every person has there own and these may change. When values change your beliefs may do so to so what you cherish does as well. A lot of the time you may not even concern yourself with thinking about something unless you value it so how does one not marry there theories and hypotheses at some point?
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